ccouch Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Man, I'm having the hardest time deciding what to do for grammar next year. Background: DD10 is finishing FLL4. Every single bit of it comes incredibly easy for her. She loves diagramming; loves working with me (although I'd like to turn her out on her own a little more); she just gets grammar and really enjoys it. Today at Mardel, we checked out: Easy Grammar 5 - she said she wanted something more challenging. We looked at EG6, but she didn't love it. BJU English - but neither of us were crazy about it Hake Grammar 5 - she liked the idea of a rigorous program Should I also be considering JAG/AG? Or R&S? Somebody tell me what we want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We used JAG this year, and retention is amazing with this program! We are planning to continue on with JAG Mechanics, and AG. I would definitely say that it is a rigorous grammar program, but it explains concepts in a way that they are very easy to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloha2U Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Rod & Staff English 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Rod & Staff English 6 This is what we did, it's going very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccouch Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Do you think we'd be fine to skip R&S5 and move right into 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloha2U Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Absolutely fine, in my opinion. My little man completed FLL 1-4 and went straight to R&S 6. It's my understanding that 6 reviews what's in 5, but at a faster pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 We went straight from FLL4 to AG in 5th grade. It has been a very good transition and a lot more independent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccouch Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Woodland Mist, would you go from FLL4 to Hake 5 or 6? Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Woodland Mist, would you go from FLL4 to Hake 5 or 6? Thanks :) Given what you've written, I would be tempted to try 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hake 5 and 6 are virtually identical. R&S 5 reviews everything from 2nd-4th. 6th assumes the child knows the base and quickly moves on. Still, I would not, even if she finds it easy, move a grade level up in R&S. It ramps up fast in terms of concepts and expected output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Our experience: My ds finished FLL 3 last fall, and we started with R&S 4. It was way too easy with too much review, so we jumped to 6 ( just because I already owned it). He is doing fine with it. Pauline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Look into EPS Rules of the Game 1. We've really liked the series. You could alternate it with EPS Writing Skills to get more writing mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hake was so boring for dd! I would definitely go with JAG then AG through middle school! High school can use reinforcement books if needed! A done deal! The AG DVDs worked great with my girls and gives me time to work with my younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Did you decide what you're going to do yet? I'm also wondering what to choose for grammar for 5th next year. For me I think it's down to Easy Grammar, Jr. Analytical Grammar, or Hake. I have no idea yet what I'll do. Hake! Hake was so boring for dd! I would definitely go with JAG then AG through middle school! High school can use reinforcement books if needed! A done deal!The AG DVDs worked great with my girls and gives me time to work with my younger. Where are you two?? I just posted asking about Hake and I'm not getting any reviews on it. Can you both share why you like it (Woodland Mist Academy) and why you don't (Murrayshire)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccouch Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 I haven't decided.... Asked some friends on FB and A Beka was thrown into the mix. ACK! Too many decisions ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Can you both share why you like it (Woodland Mist Academy) and why you don't (Murrayshire)? I used Hake with my oldest for her first year of middle school. She isn't one to complain about the material she is using but she did express how boring it was! Reminded her too much of Saxon math, which she was using at the same time. It took her quite some time to go through Hake grammar and Saxon math. I'm not suggesting that Hake doesn't do its job by no means but just stating that it didn't work for us. Dd didn't like the black and white, repetitiveness way of Hake. Grammar and mechanics comes easy to her and using AG has been a perfect fit! She is being challenged in AG! Why don't you go over both grammar programs with your dc, show them samples, and see which one they decide on. Do you have a homeschool store that sells these two materials? You really can't go wrong with either one! I would let my dc have the say in it a little though, which could make it a bit easier on you! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Where are you two?? I just posted asking about Hake and I'm not getting any reviews on it. Can you both share why you like it (Woodland Mist Academy) and why you don't (Murrayshire)? I responded on your other thread. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I used Hake with my oldest for her first year of middle school. She isn't one to complain about the material she is using but she did express how boring it was! Reminded her too much of Saxon math, which she was using at the same time. It took her quite some time to go through Hake grammar and Saxon math. I'm not suggesting that Hake doesn't do its job by no means but just stating that it didn't work for us. Dd didn't like the black and white, repetitiveness way of Hake. Grammar and mechanics comes easy to her and using AG has been a perfect fit! She is being challenged in AG! Why don't you go over both grammar programs with your dc, show them samples, and see which one they decide on. Do you have a homeschool store that sells these two materials? You really can't go wrong with either one! I would let my dc have the say in it a little though, which could make it a bit easier on you! Good luck! Thanks for sharing your experience (or that of your dd). No, we don't have any homeschool store near us at all. But, the guide for our school told me she just ordered both AG and JAG....mostly to try them out and see if she can recommend them to others in the school. I'll be able to look at those. I responded on your other thread. :) Thanks....going over there to look now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I haven't decided.... Asked some friends on FB and A Beka was thrown into the mix. ACK! Too many decisions ;) :iagree: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulmomSDG Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I am in the same boat as the OP. For those who have used JAG/AG would JAG be overkill after FLL4? We are doing a lot of diagramming and I think my son has a pretty good grasp on parts of speech so far. (love FLL!) I don't want to bore him to death! Thanks for your insight!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I am in the same boat as the OP. For those who have used JAG/AG would JAG be overkill after FLL4? We are doing a lot of diagramming and I think my son has a pretty good grasp on parts of speech so far. (love FLL!) I don't want to bore him to death! Thanks for your insight!! Not sure about the "overkill" aspect. We didn't use FLL4 before beginning JAG. I don't think, nor do my dc, that JAG/AG would bore him. It's possible that it may review quite a bit at the beginning but JAG/AG builds on itself. Maybe someone who has used FLL4 can chime in. Sorry, I wasn't much help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommee & Baba Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 My 5th grader finished FLL4 last year and we tried R&S 5 and we both couldn't even stomach the layout! We switched to EG5 and we love it! I feel like it's plenty because of the amazing foundation she got from FLL1-4! Grammar comes easy for her. I however switched my 3rd grade dd to R&S 3 and it was horrible! So I moved her to EG 3 and the transition wasn't as smoothly so I wish I would've stuck to FLL 3 with her before attempting EG. Sorry not trying to confuse you...just mentioning our experience when we were done with FLL4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shukriyya Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 JAG has been a big hit here, both with student and teacher :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulmomSDG Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks so much for the replies! I am so glad to hear that he won't be bored. He's sort of a "let's keep it moving" kid so if we redo most of what he's already done in FLL it could get old...fast... I totally understand the format issue with R&S. I planned to try it for 3rd grade and once I looked through the book I knew it wouldn't work. We went with FLL 3 instead and now, seeing the results, & how efficient it is I just couldn't use anything else for 1st-4th. It's been easy to just move up each level but this 5th grade is seriously throwing me for a loop - just like the OP. I don't mind review & definitely think it's vital, but I don't want be too redundant without new material. And the fact that the author (from what I could tell) recommended AG for 6th and up is throwing me a bit also. I guess that's why I'm questioning the need for JAG or not in our case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I'm trying to figure out grammar for next year (5th) with a kid who gets grammar easily also. We've kind of hopped around a lot in grammar programs (FLL, R&S, KISS, etc.). We were using R&S 5 earlier this year, and it was still too easy. MCT is probably a good fit for my kid, since they do grammar in a short time, then review with sentences weekly. That's the kind of setup I'd like. It does not take my son all school year to learn or review grammar. I was thinking about using MCT's Caesar's English next year, as it has some grammar practice each lesson, and that would probably be enough. But I don't know. We dropped grammar for this year (he's also taking Latin, so he's still working with parts of speech and such). The biggest thing that worries me about using MCT is the amount of errors in the TMs. I really want grammar that has THE answers in the TM. I'm reasonably good at grammar, but when you get into advanced stuff, I'm going to need answers. I've looked at AG also, and it looks like a possibility. I can't see doing JAG and AG with my son. I'd be more inclined to go straight to AG, I think. I think Hake wouldn't be a great fit for my son because it's setup like Saxon with the incremental review. I think that would drive him nuts to have most of the lesson be review. I prefer to have mostly new stuff with a tiny bit of review - preferably in the form of analyzing a real sentence from literature, not a canned sentence that's easy to figure out. I want challenge. But I also want independence (which makes MCT not a great fit), and something that doesn't need to be done every single day. Really, grammar once or twice a week would be perfect for him, or every day for a small number of weeks followed by once a week review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 JAG/AG is set up where each lesson builds upon the last lesson. You must master each lesson before moving on, otherwise your child will get lost. So there is your review.........each lesson compliments the one before and gradually the child sees the reasoning behind "grammar." Parsing, diagramming, knowing how to use parts of speech & not just memorizing definitions, becoming stronger writers, and mechanics are clear for your child at the end of AG. I hope that all makes sense! I've been tempted to begin the writing portion that goes with AG to use with my middle dd..... Still thinking through that! Let me add...... If you are looking for something for 5th grade grammar and plan to use AG in grades 6-8, why not go ahead and use JAG? This is a good year to introduce AG with JAG where it might not seem so overwhelming. AG is more in depth and has more problems in each lessons than JAG. I say give your child a taste of what's coming for 6th grade and try JAG. This may give you an idea if AG will even be best for your child. Choosing is so hard, I know, but sometimes you just have to pick & try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulmomSDG Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Let me add...... If you are looking for something for 5th grade grammar and plan to use AG in grades 6-8, why not go ahead and use JAG? This is a good year to introduce AG with JAG where it might not seem so overwhelming. AG is more in depth and has more problems in each lessons than JAG. I say give your child a taste of what's coming for 6th grade and try JAG. This may give you an idea if AG will even be best for your child. Choosing is so hard, I know, but sometimes you just have to pick & try! Yes, this makes total sense. I may do both the JAG & JAG Mechanics for the year. Grammar isn't a weak area for him so I have other subjects that need more focus/effort anyway. Thanks for the encouragement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 To be clear, the review in Hake is optional. The lessons are super short. After each lesson there is a more practice section and a review. We skip the extra practice and the reviews most of the time. She does one every week or so. The lessons just take a few minutes--maybe 5? There is not a Hake review police unit, I promise. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccouch Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 LOL! I appreciate so much the feedback! You guys are awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llifeon18wheels Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Yesterday, during Unit 8, my daughter hollers out, "I love this. It's so much fun." Ok, really? Grammar? JAG has been a huge hit here. We'll take a month off between JAG & JAG : Mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Yesterday, during Unit 8, my daughter hollers out, "I love this. It's so much fun." Ok, really? Grammar? JAG has been a huge hit here. We'll take a month off between JAG & JAG : Mechanics. Is that how they recommend using the two...one after the other like that (I have no idea so that's why I'm asking)? I was looking at the JAG samples at CBD and I really liked what I saw. I like how it kind of has a conversational tone talking to the student, if that makes sense. It seemed like it would be enjoyable. I'm pretty sure I'm going with JAG for 5th. I was pretty sure I was going with Easy Grammar, but we would have opportunity to use EG any time from now through 12th...so if I want to try JAG, next year really is my only year to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulmomSDG Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The AG/JAG author's website is really helpful in explaining the layout and intent of each book. I was planning to use both mainly because my son is weaker in the areas that JAG Mechanics covers. It sounds like everything is covered again in more depth in AG, so if you want to skip the Mechanics book and use only JAG you could probably do that. I'm not sure how it would work if you were going from JAG to a different program for 6th+ though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think Hake wouldn't be a great fit for my son because it's setup like Saxon with the incremental review. I think that would drive him nuts to have most of the lesson be review. So after saying this, I looked more at the samples and reviews and ended up getting Hake 6. We'll go ahead and start it now, 2 lessons per week, finishing up the book by the end of 5th. :lol: We'll see how it goes! I'm also borrowing Grammar Town from a friend to run through that (we did a run-through of Grammar Island in one weekend a while back, but I'd like to spend more time and get into some of the things Town level gets into - my son has the Island level covered already). The reason I didn't go with AG, which I was strongly leaning toward, was that some of the things taught in seasons 2 and 3 were things I wanted to do NOW, not 2-3 years from now. MCT Town will cover some of those things, and Hake 6 will cover some of them as well. And one thing that dawned on me is that my son is getting used to doing more review and not being driven nuts by it. I already have him doing CLE Math 500 daily, which is all complete review (he is using AoPS Prealgebra successfully), and he's learned that if it's easy, he can do it quickly (he finishes that CLE lesson in about 10-15 minutes). So likewise, if the review is easy in Hake, he can do it quickly and benefit from the repetition. Repetition breeds automaticity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I am in the same boat as the OP. For those who have used JAG/AG would JAG be overkill after FLL4? We are doing a lot of diagramming and I think my son has a pretty good grasp on parts of speech so far. (love FLL!) I don't want to bore him to death! Thanks for your insight!! I have a different opinion than the others on this. FLL4 straight to AG was very easy for my FLL4-strong 10yo. The diagramming is set up almost exactly the same. I think JAG would have been a bad move for my kid. She would have been bored and diagramming is already a bit short of "exciting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie4 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I have a different opinion than the others on this. FLL4 straight to AG was very easy for my FLL4-strong 10yo. The diagramming is set up almost exactly the same. I think JAG would have been a bad move for my kid. She would have been bored and diagramming is already a bit short of "exciting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie4 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I have a different opinion than the others on this. FLL4 straight to AG was very easy for my FLL4-strong 10yo. The diagramming is set up almost exactly the same. I think JAG would have been a bad move for my kid. She would have been bored and diagramming is already a bit short of "exciting."Thanks for adding this to the discussion because this was my plan. FLL 4 straight to AG but I was starting to doubt after reading this thread. My 10 yo is also pretty strong in FLL 4 so I think I will go straight to AG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If you want *only* grammar, then I'd go for AG. Actually, I'd go for Easy Grammar Plus, because I don't think diagramming is important. But if you want diagramming, then AG. BJUP and R&S also include writing (and other topics, such as using reference materials or public speaking). If you have something else you like for writing, then don't do R&S; do AG and your writing program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulmomSDG Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I have a different opinion than the others on this. FLL4 straight to AG was very easy for my FLL4-strong 10yo. The diagramming is set up almost exactly the same. I think JAG would have been a bad move for my kid. She would have been bored and diagramming is already a bit short of "exciting." Thanks for adding this to the discussion because this was my plan. FLL 4 straight to AG but I was starting to doubt after reading this thread. My 10 yo is also pretty strong in FLL 4 so I think I will go straight to AG. skimomma - I, also, wanted to thank you for your comment. This was actually my original concern with being too redundant. He doesn't really need more practice of the same level without new material being primary. If that makes sense?!? Since my last post, I have also talked with someone at our local homeschool store about our situation. She is familiar with both FLL & AG and advised me to consider waiting until 6th for AG and use something like Daily Grams for 5th. Basically, to give a break from heavy-duty grammar, while still maintaining a little practice. Either way, JAG seems to not be the route to go with someone who is strong in grammar coming out of FLL4. Honestly, I hadn't planned to spend this much brain-power on this...what I need to do is just make a decision and stick with it!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 skimomma - I, also, wanted to thank you for your comment. This was actually my original concern with being too redundant. He doesn't really need more practice of the same level without new material being primary. If that makes sense?!? Since my last post, I have also talked with someone at our local homeschool store about our situation. She is familiar with both FLL & AG and advised me to consider waiting until 6th for AG and use something like Daily Grams for 5th. Basically, to give a break from heavy-duty grammar, while still maintaining a little practice. Either way, JAG seems to not be the route to go with someone who is strong in grammar coming out of FLL4. Honestly, I hadn't planned to spend this much brain-power on this...what I need to do is just make a decision and stick with it!! :D We went straight to AG in 5th grade simply to save time. Dd is good at grammar and diagramming. We found it takes little time. At least the first year, it is only 10 weeks of a "full week" curriculum then you move on to a once-a-week review stage. We found that dd did not need to do all 5 days during the 10 week part. We followed the directions outlined in the curriculum to determine if less practice was required. Because FLL had prepared dd so well, the new parts were easy and quick to pick up. Now, she just spends 10 minutes a week on the review page. She is keeping her skills strong while we spend much more time on her writing skills which is the part of LA she needs the most work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccouch Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 I know you've all been waiting with bated breath! ;) We looked at a number of samples, and I let DD have a big voice in what we chose for next year, and she chose Rod & Staff. I was able to compare BJU, Abeka, R&S and Hake at our local used book stores and/or our local Mardel. We're both really excited! Thanks for all the input & good luck to those of you still in decision-making mode! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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