veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Right now, Google is trying to digitize all the books (and many of the magazines) that have ever been written and make these texts searchable. So far, Google has digitized roughly a quarter of the world's books, and plans to finish by the end of this decade. I think that the Google Books project is absolutely, positively revolutionary. It makes knowledge readily accessible to anyone--from any part of the world. It also helps preserve rare texts--in case of a fire (Library of Alexandria), flood, or natural disaster. Yet, when I tell others about this, they give me a blank stare and seem so nonchalant. Many of them have not even heard of the project. In addition, relatively little national attention/news coverage has been given to this project. Why do you suppose that's so? Why aren't more people excited about this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Because it's not a surprising next step and people assume, without thinking through the logistics, that it was bound to happen sometime. Curing diseases is revolutionary. Revolutions are revolutionary. Scanning and uploading ALL the books sounds worthy, but tedious and not terribly exciting. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Because most people don't love books the way you do. I love books, I am with you!! Eight years ago, we were stationed in the D.C area. I was doing some research on the history of beginning reading. I got a researcher card to the Library of Congress. I was so happy to see the Library of Congress and get my own card. (Free!!!) so many interesting books!!! I got to go twice while we were stationed there. After the first library visit, I found Google Books. I was so excited to be able to search through so many old books online. Using Google Books made my second trip much more productive. Also, through Google Books, I could share the more interesting ones with my phonics friends like Don Potter. (I have 4 phonics friends, but one is over 80 so I only send her really interesting things and e-mail her less often.) If you are in the DC area or ever visit, I recommend getting a Library of Congress researcher card. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Because the books aren't free. Not that I would want them to be because I believe that authors are entitled to profit from the sale of their work. But it's just not that interesting to have yet-another-ebook-vendor right now and for books that are still under copyright or don't have publisher's permission, you can't read them. Yes, the search feature is nice, but it's just more of what Google does already. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Because the books aren't free. Not that I would want them to be because I believe that authors are entitled to profit from the sale of their work. But it's just not that interesting to have yet-another-ebook-vendor right now and for books that are still under copyright or don't have publisher's permission, you can't read them. Yes, the search feature is nice, but it's just more of what Google does already. The really interesting (to me!) ones are all free. There are tons of interesting books from the 1600's to 1923 that are entirely free, their copyright has expired. The ones from the 1800's and early 1900's are particularly interesting. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I'm all for saving books and having them available electronically. I love the Gutenberg Project, and others that are scanning and saving our literary heritage. Of course it's wonderful to save that knowledge and have access to it! :) For research purposes, I think this is great. I just personally don't like to do my for-pleasure reading digitally, and given a choice, will always prefer to curl up with a physical book than a laptop or e-reader. And in answer to your original question: Why aren't people more excited about Google Books? Well, if you haven't noticed, we are rapidly entering a post-literate type of culture. Reading and deep thinking are no longer valued in the ways they once were. My DH was in emergency services for almost 3 decades, and I can't tell you how OFTEN he would describe going on a medical emergency call to a home in which there was always a giant-screen TV, but not a single book or magazine in the entire home. They can text messages filled with one-letter stand-ins for words at super-sonic speeds, but cannot think or speak with any kind of depth of vocabulary -- much less write a solid paragraph... Of course people will give you a blank stare about Google Books and other "save our literary heritage" projects! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Here are a few pages with some links to Google Books that are free: Near the bottom of my Webster page, all the Parker Readers: http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/webstersway.html A page of syllable divided books: http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllabledividedb.html From Don Potter: http://www.donpotter.net/education_pages/valuable_reading_programs_f.html http://www.donpotter.net/education_pages/spelling_books.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Because with the billions of webpages of information available out there, information overload sets in. Although I do use Google Books on occasion and have made use of free vintage texts, there's a limit to how many resources I can use. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 OK, here is how it is revolutionary if you are doing actual research: My first trip to the Library of Congress, I searched for books about spelling, phonics, and the history of reading instruction by subject or title only. You have to submit your request on little pieces of paper and 45 minutes to an hour later, your book pops out on a little circular conveyer belt, like a luggage pickup for books, then you can go get it. (It has your name on it and the kind of people hanging out there are not going to steal your book, although if it was especially interesting they might leaf thought it and put it back, LOL.) Then, you get your pile of books and go through them, discarding the really bad ones and making copies of the pages you are interested in for the books that seem promising. You have no way of knowing if the book is what you are looking for until you get it. Also, you can only search with simple methods, although sometimes references to other books or lists of books used or quoted in histories can give you ideas. Post Google Books, I found some new really interesting books when I searched for specific terms that were relevant to my search WITHIN the books. I found whole new subject areas to search for books that were at the Library of Congress but not yet in Google Books. These were subject areas I would not have thought to investigate on my own, and it made my second trip about 10 times as productive as my first trip. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 They aren't readable IMO. Meaning I would not go to that site to read that book. I suppose it is cool to be able to search for stuff in books. I like e-books quite a bit. That isn't the purpose of it though is it? If a book was written before 1923, you can usually read the full text on Google books for free. Here are a few such books (and they're all free): Men Who Are Making America Memoirs of the Court of Queen Elizabeth The Autobiography of Andrew Carnegie Paradise Regained by John Milton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Here is an example of a book I found through Google Books that I never would have found otherwise, it has a bit about education and some really good explanations about how school worked in the past buried in an overall history of a certain county (Wayne County, Indiana.) http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/historyofwayneco.html Two of the most pertinent quotes are on that link, with a link to the whole book at Google Books, which includes even more information about education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Because it's not a surprising next step and people assume, without thinking through the logistics, that it was bound to happen sometime. Curing diseases is revolutionary. Revolutions are revolutionary. Scanning and uploading ALL the books sounds worthy, but tedious and not terribly exciting. In order to cure a disease or do something else beneficial, it helps to have information/knowledge readily available--especially if there are no universities/learned people near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 In order to cure a disease or do something else beneficial, it helps to have information/knowledge readily available--especially if there are no universities/learned people near you.This brings to mind the story of William Kamkwamba and his windmills, what he did with determination and 2 textbooks: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/10/kamwamba-windmill/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I see some weighty issues with digitizing ALL books. How are authors compensated for their work? For researching, digital content online is awesome. The scientific community in my field has been publishing on online servers for years, before the paper is sent to a peer reviewed journal. But those authors are not living on the proceeds of their written work. Personally: I find reading on a screen very tiresome and much prefer a real book. So, while I can appreciate Googlebooks on an abstract level, I don't personally use it because I find it cumbersome for reading. Btw, most people are just not excited about books, in whatever form they come. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 I see some weighty issues with digitizing ALL books. How are authors compensated for their work? For researching, digital content online is awesome. The scientific community in my field has been publishing on online servers for years, before the paper is sent to a peer reviewed journal. But those authors are not living on the proceeds of their written work. Personally: I find reading on a screen very tiresome and much prefer a real book. So, while I can appreciate Googlebooks on an abstract level, I don't personally use it because I find it cumbersome for reading. Btw, most people are just not excited about books, in whatever form they come. Depending on the book's copyright status and/or any author's directives, Internet users can see the entire book, a preview, snippets, or no preview at all. Google now allows users to purchase many of the books (a la Kindle). The authors receive a cut of the sales. I imagine that this would be most beneficial to authors whose books are no longer in print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Depending on the book's copyright status and/or any author's directives, Internet users can see the entire book, a preview, snippets, or no preview at all. which then limits the usefulness greatly. If I can't see the entire book and have to purchase it anyway, the main advantage (to me) is gone. (And yes, I get it that it is nice to have out of print books electronically) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Right now, Google is undertaking an ambitious project to digitize all the books (and most of the magazines) that have ever been written and to make these books searchable. So far, Google has digitized roughly a quarter of all books, and plans to finish by the end of this decade. I think that the Google Books project is absolutely, positively revolutionary. It makes knowledge readily accessible to anyone--from any part of the world. It also helps preserve books and rare materials--in case of a fire (Library of Alexandria), flood, or natural disaster. Yet, when I tell people about this, they give me a blank stare and seem nonchalant. Many of them have not even heard of the project. In addition, little national attention/news coverage has been given to this project. Why do you suppose that's so? Why aren't more people excited about it? Do you work for Google? ;) I only ask because this is the second thread you have started about Google Books within the past few weeks, and you also raved about the Google discussion search feature in the thread you started about how you found this forum. You sound like Google's biggest fan! :D 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 <snip> Yet, when I tell people about this, they give me a blank stare and seem nonchalant. Many of them have not even heard of the project. It's my experience that the vast majority of people don't give a lot of attention to anything outside of the Honey Boo Boo range. They aren't interested in intellectual pursuits at all. It goes along with these stats: According to a HuffPost/YouGov poll asking 1,000 U.S. adults about their reading habits, 41 percent of respondents had not read a fiction book in the past year; 42 percent had not read a nonfiction book. And from MentalFloss: One-third of high school graduates never read another book for the rest of their lives. • 42 percent of college graduates never read another book after college. • 80 percent of U.S. families did not buy or read a book last year. • 70 percent of U.S. adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years. • 57 percent of new books are not read to completion. You must understand too that of the percentage of people who *do* read, a large percentage of them aren't reading anything beyond Danielle Steele or Nicholas Sparks (not knocking romance novels, only complaining about people that ONLY read romance novels). In addition, little national attention/news coverage has been given to this project. This isn't true at all. There has been a lot of media coverage, but this has been on ongoing project for about ten years. Maybe you're a lot younger than me, so you weren't aware of it until recently? I'm over 40. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I'm all for saving books and having them available electronically. I love the Gutenberg Project, and others that are scanning and saving our literary heritage. Of course it's wonderful to save that knowledge and have access to it! :) For research purposes, I think this is great. I just personally don't like to do my for-pleasure reading digitally, and given a choice, will always prefer to curl up with a physical book than a laptop or e-reader. A couple of people (not you, I know, just using your post as a jumping off point) have complained about readability. You can download many of the vintage books from google or Gutenberg to your e-reader. I use Calibre for this purpose and move them to my Nook. It makes them more readable and portable. Most people dont use information from print materials in their day to day life...even a cookbook, sadly, so no surprise that they arent excited about Project Gutenberg or Google's version. Its too bad, because many of them could improve their lives if they could take the time once the material becomes accessible and searchable. This is actually a real problem. Did you know that an estimated 46% of American adults can't understand the labels on their prescription bottles? And 70% of people take at least one prescription med a day. http://www.statisticbrain.com/reading-statistics/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Do you work for Google? ;) I only ask because this is the second thread you have started about Google Books within the past few weeks, and you also raved about the Google discussion search feature in the thread you started about how you found this forum. You sound like Google's biggest fan! :D No, I don't work for Google. I'm just very passionate about certain causes (especially open access to information). I think that information should be easily accessible to the masses. To this end, there are other entities that I adore, such as the Internet Archive, Worldcat, and Goodreads, among others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 which then limits the usefulness greatly. If I can't see the entire book and have to purchase it anyway, the main advantage (to me) is gone. (And yes, I get it that it is nice to have out of print books electronically) How would you even know that the book exists in the first place? How would you find it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't think it is exactly news. DH's library was one that participated in The Great Book Scanning and that was years ago. There are frequent threads in the educational forums about vintage curriculum available via google books. When I heard about Project Gutenberg, back before the interwebs were widely available, then I was excited! I am not particularly fond of most vintage books. Just because a book is old doesn't mean it is inherently valuable. It doesn't mean it is worthless either. It just means it is old. If I were doing a specific type of research and didn't have access to a large research facility then I might find Google Books valuable. But I don't want vintage science books for sure and I find modern homeschooling books to be easier to use. I do have one problem with google books and other scanning of out of copyright works, and that is that it has made finding hard copies of classic works difficult to come by. I wanted DH to bring home Robinson Crusoe, A Tale of Two Cities and then Little Women for ds to read for school. The only copies his library now has are rare copies. They no longer stock hard copies of the texts of many google books on the shelves because that was the point of scanning it all in. They were able to free up some shelf space (always a good thing for libraries) by archiving away what was scanned. But, my son doesn't want to be looking at a screen all day. He wants an actual book to read for school. I had to hustle a bit to find useable hard copies. And these books are scanned, not formatted ebooks. Many are not easy to read. I would only use a scanned book if I had no other option. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 How would you even know that the book exists in the first place? How would you find it? What does this mean? Most of us have access to book lists and use books that reference other books. I have had to track down many OOP and/or unabridged versions of many books over our years of homeschooling. When my eldest was doing Learning Language Arts Through Literature, I started to ask her the questions from the teacher edition only to quickly realize that our edition of Black Beauty was abridged. It took quite a bit of investigating to find one that that was unabridged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 How would you even know that the book exists in the first place? How would you find it? I'm not sure what you're asking. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Depending on the book's copyright status and/or any author's directives, Internet users can see the entire book, a preview, snippets, or no preview at all. I think most of us are aware of how Google Books works. Personally, I think it's still quite cumbersome and I haven't found it to be particularly useful for my needs. I rarely find an entire book that I need, and the silly little previews and snippets are pretty much worthless to me. If I want to pay for an e-book, I can just buy it from Amazon, which IMO, is far more user-friendly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 What does this mean? Most of us have access to book lists and use books that reference other books. I have had to track down many OOP and/or unabridged versions of many books over our years of homeschooling. When my eldest was doing Learning Language Arts Through Literature, I started to ask her the questions from the teacher edition only to quickly realize that our edition of Black Beauty was abridged. It took quite a bit of investigating to find one that that was unabridged. Having book lists and references are great. But do you do not think that being able to search inside the individual pages of millions of books simultaneously makes more books more visible/accessible to you? Let's say that you're searching for information about an obscure medical ailment or a relatively obscure historical figure. How will you know which books contain this information? There's only so much that a book list/reference can tell about what's contained therein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 How would you even know that the book exists in the first place? How would you find it? A library catalog? I think that it's pretty cool to see very old books, but they're not terribly useful, and they're not very easy to use. It's also impossible to browse, usually because there's just too much information. I plug in a search term and 10,000 books come up. Who can wade through that? I do think Google Books is cool, but I don't think it's terribly revolutionary. I think it's probably very useful to hobby researchers without access to the sorts of really expensive catalogs and databases that research libraries have. As a lay person, the only pre-1927 books I'm likely to ever want to see are are fiction books, and IMO it's worth it to pay for the Dover Thrift edition. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Having book lists and references are great. But do you do not think that being able to search inside the individual pages of millions of books simultaneously makes more books more visible/accessible to you? Let's say that you're searching for information about an obscure medical ailment or a relatively obscure historical figure. How will you know which books contain this information? There's only so much that a book list/reference can tell about what's contained therein. Honestly, it's too many books. I just looked up the obscure historical figure I did my senior thesis on, and there are 250,000 results in Google Books. The first few pages are all things you'd be able to find using the collections database of any research university. A BUNCH of them are obscure books written by or about people named after this guy. Wading through this isn't useful for doing actual research... going through bibliographies of other books is. As for the medical stuff... the books you'd want to read aren't in the public domain (and, if they are, they're available on the federal government's website). I just did a search for a heart condition my father has, and the top few clicks are, I think medical textbooks where they don't show you the full text. It's a combination of information overload, and not enough of the actual information you want. LOL. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Having book lists and references are great. But do you do not think that being able to search inside the individual pages of millions of books simultaneously makes more books more visible/accessible to you? Let's say that you're searching for information about an obscure medical ailment or a relatively obscure historical figure. How will you know which books contain this information? There's only so much that a book list/reference can tell about what's contained therein. Do you think pre-1927 medical reference books would be more useful than modern medical reference books? There are literally dozens of ways to access reference materials, starting with the good old fashioned card catalog. The trouble with both the card catalog *and* the search function for google books is that there is little way to determine whether a book will really be helpful to you based on a word or even boolean string search. They are too generic. That is why subject matter lists and reference materials are often more useful, IMO. I am really sad that something like google has made institutions feel they can get rid of research librarians. Research librarians were MUCH better at accessing *useful* and/or accurate material. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A couple of people (not you, I know, just using your post as a jumping off point) have complained about readability. You can download many of the vintage books from google or Gutenberg to your e-reader. I use Calibre for this purpose and move them to my Nook. It makes them more readable and portable. Thanks Mrs. Mungo, I appreciate that tip. :) But, I freely admit that I am a luddite when it comes to pleasure reading. I like the weight, feel, and smell of books. I like to turn pages and be able to flip back and forth between physical pages. To see in my peripheral vision that I am getting close to the end of a page or chapter heightens the excitement. I like being able to "see" where I am in a book just by using the dustjacket as a bookmark. I am very "visual" and remember things by where I saw it on the physical page of the book and about how far in to the book. I like the look of actual print on paper, and the printed illustrations on a page -- a subtle reminder of the people "behind" the book, both the writer and the bookmakers and the very personal and hands-on art and craft that goes into the creation of a book. I love my rows of books on the bookshelves in my home; it makes me feel "rich", like I have a store of wisdom and truth and beauty at my fingertips. I deeply love vintage books -- to actually, literally, physically be able to "hold history" and share the reading experience of others who have handled this book in the past when they read it. To sometimes find something unexpected tucked between two pages. I really love the "shopping around" and deciding what books to add to my vintage collection, since bookshelf space is limited, and that makes the books even more special. I love borrowing a bag of books from a friend -- the weight and different sizes and colors are each like a wrapped gift! I love browsing through bookstores, esp. used book stores, where you never know what "treasure" you will stumble across just because of where the book was physically placed on the shelves and where I end up walking / looking... When I am reading, I do NOT like scrolling or using a finger to "swipe". I do not like the glow of the screen while I'm reading for pleasure, and I do not like the heft and feel of electronic reading devices. They are cold and impersonal. Books are warm and cozy. Yes, I know e-readers can hold a library full of books and are far more portable. And yes, if need-be, I use electronic devices for reading. There is certainly a time and place for reading via digital means in my life, too. But, for me, reading for pleasure is more than just reading -- it is also the experience of interaction with the physical book, too. :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 I am really sad that something like google has made institutions feel they can get rid of research librarians. Research librarians were MUCH better at accessing *useful* and/or accurate material. Are schools really getting rid of research librarians? I hadn't heard of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 A couple of people (not you, I know, just using your post as a jumping off point) have complained about readability. You can download many of the vintage books from google or Gutenberg to your e-reader. I use Calibre for this purpose and move them to my Nook. It makes them more readable and portable. I was one who complained. I do not enjoy reading books on a an e-reader. Yes, I get they are useful and can hold thousands of books, but I am lacking the tactile experience of turning pages, and the visual of text position on a page for later recall. Not to mention illustrations. If that makes me a Luddite, so be it :-) I don't like e-textbooks either, because I want to see text and graphics and equations in one double page, and not click to small sections to enlarge for reading. I remember things by visual clues (things like, this equation in my college class was on a left page in the lower third and had a red box... and then I can red it in my mind). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't think anyone is a Luddite. :) I love physical books too, make no mistake about it. The sheer number of book boxes when I move is testament to that. Every time we move, the movers say they have never moved so many books. But, I do love the instant gratification of ebooks. I also love the ease of which I can download free books, many of which are out of print. I think it is terrible that my nearest bookstore is now an hour away. TERRIBLE. And that probably leads me to buy/download more ebooks than I otherwise would. The used bookstores around here tend to carry more comics and DVDs than actual books. Sigh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Are schools really getting rid of research librarians? I hadn't heard of that I didn't use the word school. There are many types of institutions that use(d) research librarians other than schools. That said, here is a list of articles on the topic: http://anssacrl.wordpress.com/publications/bibliographies/annual-program-2005/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Having book lists and references are great. But do you do not think that being able to search inside the individual pages of millions of books simultaneously makes more books more visible/accessible to you? Let's say that you're searching for information about an obscure medical ailment or a relatively obscure historical figure. How will you know which books contain this information? There's only so much that a book list/reference can tell about what's contained therein. Maybe you're too young to realize this, but people somehow managed to muddle through life and find the books and information they needed long before the existence of Google Books. ;) I truly don't mean to sound snotty, but Google Books truly isn't the be-all and end-all that you seem to perceive it to be. Sometimes having more information isn't such a great thing, particularly when the quality of that information is often quite dubious or outdated, as is the case with sites like Google Books. It's nice to preserve old books, but sometimes it seems that many of the titles are preserved for the sole reason of bragging rights, so the site can say they have X number of books on file. Is there some excellent information there? Sure there is. But there's also an incredible amount of worthless dreck to filter through, in order to find the good stuff. Sometimes, more is just more, and more isn't always better. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Maybe you're too young to realize this, but people somehow managed to muddle through life and find the books and information they needed long before the existence of Google Books. ;) I did wonder about the age of the OP because he/she is coming across as really young to me. But, maybe I am just getting old, lol. I got through college *before* the advent of the internet as we know it today. I mentioned somewhere else that my uncle (who is only 9 years older than me) is an engineer, so I knew about the internet back when you had to put a rotary phone's headset on a special pad. But, it wasn't the amazing resource that it is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yeah, when I was in college the intranet using DOS was a huge gain. I think we did actually have computerized card catologs- I can't remember for sure. I do remember looking up periodicals in the (paper) indexes. Now, what I am really excited about is Coursera. My children have access to live lessons by professors that I could only dream of studying under. Not to mention the other live classes available now. I no longer have to send my child to a two week summer class for them to study under a professional artist. Lovin' that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Now, what I am really excited about is Coursera. My children have access to live lessons by professors that I could only dream of studying under. Not to mention the other live classes available now. I no longer have to send my child to a two week summer class for them to study under a professional artist. Lovin' that! OTOH, even these seem to look better in theory than in practice. The MOOCs have abysmal completion rates. I found these statistics very interesting: http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/completion-rates-arent-the-best-way-to-judge-moocs-researchers-say/49721 841,687 people registered for the 17 MOOCs from Harvard and MIT. 5 percent of all registrants earned a certificate of completion. 35 percent never viewed any of the course materials. 54 percent of those who “explored†at least half of the course content earned a certificate of completion. 66 percent of all registrants already held a bachelor’s degree or higher. 74 percent of those who earned a certificate of completion held a bachelor’s degree or higher. 29 percent of all registrants were female. 3 percent of all registrants were from underdeveloped countries. So, basically, predominantly male people with college degrees in highly developed countries use those resources for continuing their education. That is in stark contrast to the lofty goal of free elite university courses educating uneducated people and people in developing countries. In theory, yes... but it does not seem to work out. Apparently, for many students there is no substitute for a live teacher in a live classroom to keep them engaged and focused on the work. It might just have something to do with human nature. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've seen the statistics, but I'm not sure what their relevance would be to my personal situation. I am not excited by any high and lofty goals. I am excited about being able to watch great lectures in the comfort of my own home. It is not as if I'm going to leave the kids and enroll in some huge university in order to get the full "live" experience at this point in my life. the courses as offered are wonderful for someone in my situation. I'm not too concerned about my children's completion rate for college courses just yet. I almost never even attempt to earn a certificate of completion and seldom finish a whole lecture series. It is of immeasurable value to me to be able to allow my children to view college level lectures and the information we gain is truly of interest to us. We've watched CS 101, Animal Behavior, What a Plant Knows, history courses, Archeologies Dirty Little Secrets... There were some great introductory writing workshops and a lecture series on critical thinking. As far as replacing a human professor- my kids are under age and homeschooled- I am their human professor. If and when one of them embarks on a career path as an adult, then we can talk about how they'll actually get their college credits. In the meantime, I don't have to choose between declaring my young child a prodigy and sending her away to art school or getting lessons online from talented artists. Not everyone can afford to go to MIT or even do campus visits to colleges all over the country. But Coursera allows my kids to at least get a taste of what it would be like. I probably would have chosen a much different college path as a teen had I had access to a resource like Coursera that allowed me to truly understand what was out there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 At this point, only books from before approxomately1930 are available to fully read via google books. And that date only covers books published in the US, because other countries have different copyright laws. Here is a bit more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Book_Search_Settlement_Agreement If you are interested in more online books there is the Hathi Trust (Hathitrust.org) as well. There are still so many issue pertaining to copyright that lots is not available and won't be for quite a while. And companies like Disney are fighting hard to extend copyright. Lol, I finally found a book issue my librarian husband is good for. Every time I ask him a question his standard reply is "I'm not that kind of librarian". Well, copyright and electronic resources are the kind of librarian he is. Success! Of course, now I am going to have to listen to him ramble on all evening about copyright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've seen the statistics, but I'm not sure what their relevance would be to my personal situation. I am not excited by any high and lofty goals. I am excited about being able to watch great lectures in the comfort of my own home. I intended my comment to be more of a general nature, not as a comment to your personal situation. I was struck by the parallels in expectation between digitized books and online course content: for both, there are/were high hopes how they could easily educate the masses and revolutionize globalized education... but so far, the online courses have not delivered. Enjoy the lectures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I guess scanning was easier and I find seeing the typeface and illustrations interesting but I can't actually use the scanned books. And I'm one that loves ebooks so its not that. I just find it very not user friendly and nothing at all like a kindle book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I am excited. I found old (late 19th - early 20th century) editions of a periodical, Boot and Shoe Recorder. It has info for commercial travelers in the boot and shoe business. Pretty obscure, but I found the only photo I have so far of an ancestor that I am researching, as well as general info that helps me picture his life. I can download the publications for free and skim through them as well as search. Btw, Boot and Shoe Recorder is NOT in every library, lol. Thank you, Google Books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Thanks to this thread, I've now clicked through a book from 1898 called "A History of Russia in Words of One Syllable". Every word in the book is just one syllable, or is divided by syllables with a dash. For example: ".... where dwelt some tribes of half-wild men known as the Slavic rac-es." and "When at last Prince Vlad-a-mir had his fath-er's throne all to him-self, he was the Grand Prince of Rus-sia". It's very Google: interesting in an odd way, but also a completely useless time suck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Thanks to this thread, I've now clicked through a book from 1898 called "A History of Russia in Words of One Syllable". Every word in the book is just one syllable, or is divided by syllables with a dash. For example: ".... where dwelt some tribes of half-wild men known as the Slavic rac-es." and "When at last Prince Vlad-a-mir had his fath-er's throne all to him-self, he was the Grand Prince of Rus-sia". It's very Google: interesting in an odd way, but also a completely useless time suck. They were meant for young children trained to read by syllables but not quite old enough to break them up on their own, it allowed young children to read adult level words easily. Open syllables are long, closed syllables are short. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SporkUK Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 For us, google books used to be a great resource for finding books, but rules changed and now very little is really available to us in the UK. I stopped using it really as so much that was once there has now gone to no preview/no ebook available. Forgotten Books which lets me search for words or pictures has become the most useful for us alongside many other archive services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Right now, Google is trying to digitize all the books (and many of the magazines) that have ever been written and make these texts searchable. So far, Google has digitized roughly a quarter of the world's books, and plans to finish by the end of this decade. I think that the Google Books project is absolutely, positively revolutionary. It makes knowledge readily accessible to anyone--from any part of the world. It also helps preserve rare texts--in case of a fire (Library of Alexandria), flood, or natural disaster. Yet, when I tell others about this, they give me a blank stare and seem so nonchalant. Many of them have not even heard of the project. In addition, relatively little national attention/news coverage has been given to this project. Why do you suppose that's so? Why aren't more people excited about this? I don't think lack of information is at the root of many serious problems. I think too much information is quite a significant problem in the modern west, at least. Excess information can disempower while giving the impression of empowering, which is an even better political/economic tool than restricting information outright. A great many books that have no copyright are already available online and in fact there are groups that have been working on this for years - mostly without any monetary interest - something we cannot say about google. While a search feature might seem convenient, it isn't particularly revolutionary, and it creates bad book reading habits - especially with older books which were often written with the assumption that they will be read in their entirety. There is nothing worse for the integrity of a text than lifting out particular bits without considering the whole. It also puts a lot of power in the hands of whomver creates the algorithms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 For us, google books used to be a great resource for finding books, but rules changed and now very little is really available to us in the UK. I stopped using it really as so much that was once there has now gone to no preview/no ebook available. Forgotten Books which lets me search for words or pictures has become the most useful for us alongside many other archive services. I'm in Canada and google books does the same thing here but there is a simple way around this. If you use use a proxy server based in the US the you can access google books like anyone in the US would. Basically a US server calls up google books and then hands it too you the way they receive it. It like a middle man. Proxy site are easy to use. Just go to proxy.com (or .org? -the college server has both sites blocked so I can't tell which one right now) and put the url you want into the search bar and you will get the US page which you can then search as normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The really interesting (to me!) ones are all free. There are tons of interesting books from the 1600's to 1923 that are entirely free, their copyright has expired. The ones from the 1800's and early 1900's are particularly interesting. There are ones that are copywrite free and still aren't free :/ I discovered this through doing genealogy. It'll give me the one page from my search, but in order to read more for more context, I can't without paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacell Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Not sure. I for one am extremely excited about them...but i'm admittedly a nerd and I have a love of vintage things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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