Poll: What would you consider low income for your family and circumstance?

[athomeontheprairie]

Where we live, under $20. We make under $30, and we own our it isn't a great house, and one day I really hope we have more. BUT, we truly have everything we need. and being in the country we have lots of space.

after Hurricane Katrina my husband and I spent 2&a half years in the Gulf Coast living in a camper. We worked with a company that offered free aid to anyone. at the time we had one and then another child. we had to choose to live with very little in a very little space. and we saw many struggle beyond what words can express. we have so much! Even though others would say we have little.

sometimes I wish we had more. and I wish we had an extra in order to do the things that we want. But we don't.

while we may be low income, we are not poor. Poor, I believe, is a state of mind, a loss of hope.

[beaners]

Our county's median income for a family is around 40,000.  Average family size is 3 people.  One of the adjacent counties has a median family income of 34,000.  If that's the median, there are obviously a lot of families making less than that.  It shows.  Our area has a large poor, rural population.

 

 

[Camelfeet]

COL is high - so in my area I would consider someone low income if they made below 30k as a single or below 50k with a family, assuming no other benefits.  

 

Housing for a 2/3 bed flat would be between 1500-3000 per month.  Maybe you could get cheaper, but you'd have to travel at least 45 mins away.

Schooling varies.  Most of my friends with kids in PS pay 8-20k per year per child.

Food... varies too much and is a small cost compared to housing+schooling.  

 

 

 

[MyThreeSons]

It's a matter of perspective, for sure.

 

Years ago, there was a man at our church who was leaving a successful career in the corporate world to come be a counselor/pastor at our church. During the discussion of the financial implications for our church and his family, one of the Elders made a comment about the man's sacrifice for our church by taking a big paycut. His drastically cut salary was going to be three times what we were living on at the time! For the record, he wasn't going to make much, and I honestly don't know how we scraped by. But I remember everyone nodding their heads in agreement that this was going to be a big change for his family.

[FaithManor]

I voted $40,000 or less for our COL. While the median is around $29,000.00 and oft times that represents a full time working parent plus a part-time, minimum wage earning parent (wages are very low around here), most of the people making less than $40,000 really struggle during the winter heating season to pay for a reasonable amount of heat. We know a lot of families that keep the thermostat at just above "pipes freezing" and wear their hats, gloves, and coats inside the house. That is too cold in my book. When one has to worry that much about the heat bill, the income is too low. That's just me. Also, car insurance in Michigan is ridiculously priced even in low accident, low traffic volume, nothing ever happens rural areas and it's no fault insurance to boot so if someone hits you, your insurance pays out and your premium goes up even if it wasn't your fault. GRRRR...getting caught uninsured is very, very bad so I know families making that $29,000.00 above and paying $3600.00 a year in car insurance on two beater, paid off, no blue book value cars. That's nuts! But, it is what it is. So, heat, electricity, and car insurance can total $800.00 -900.00 a month in the winter and that's $8400.00 - 9600.00 a year on a take home pay of say $23,000-24,000 (yes, that much gets taken out at that level because the income tax rates were hiked when the state was going bust)...so 1/3 of pay without shelter, food, clothing, etc. At $29,000.00 there just aren't any benefits except maybe WIC because the state cut way back on those and if we have to bail out Detroit, those will be cut yet again along with a lot of other stuff. Social programs aren't the only ones taking the hit. Pretty much everything has been cut more than once. The schools do NOT cut back on the "back to school list" nor the fundraisers for things they really could do without, grrrrr....

 

If one could burn wood and your own wood lot or a relative with one that would let you take it out for free, the assistance with the heat would help a LOT. But, without public transportation, insuring clunkers and trying to keep them running is one expensive undertaking in this state. But, the banks are getting pretty conservative with car loans, and so at that income level, one isn't getting a much newer car, and it's not like a car payment of any major size would be very easy to make. Plus, if you owe on it, you have to carry collision and one way people save money on their clunkers is to not carry collision since it's the most expensive coverage. With collision, one 15 year old junker can cost $2400.00 a year to insure. If both parents work and need cars, that's $400.00 a month without gas, maintenance, or God forbid, a car repair.

 

Single bedroom apartments are $350.00 and only water and garbage included. Electric heat -very expensive. A family of five (currently dh, myself, and the boys) would not be eligible for a two bedroom at $450.00 - too many occupants. So, renting a house would have to be done since there aren't any three bedroom apartments in the county. Three bedroom houses are around $600.00 a month for the crappy ones and $800.00 for the decent ones. Going with the crappy, that's $7200.00 plus the $8600.00 above, plus renter's insurance (required and around $50.00 per month), some sort of phone - no plan I know of for less than $79.00 a month because coverage is so poor and there is very little competition so that leaves $500.00 and change per month out of the above median family earnings for food, personal care, gas for the cars, etc. Since we are rural and employers are not close by usually, I'd have to guess the average person spends $30.00 - 40.00 a week per car for gas , so even for one that's $120.00 - 160.00 of that $500.00. Knowing what even crappy groceries cost and what it takes to even marginally fill three boys, that's just too low IMO. It's doable on $40,000.00 because that leaves room for a co-pay at the doctor's office, a small contribution to a health insurance premium at work if one has employer based insurance, or the sliding scale contribution for kids to Medicaid, and cheap clothing though obviously not a lot.

 

Prices just keep going up. Wages stagnate. It won't be long and that low income estimate will have to go up substantially which means that a HUGE portion of our county is low income according to my best guess.

[LMV]

You asked for us to consider this in the context of our family and situation. We're currently a family of eight (five children at home and our oldest daughter started college away from home this fall). For us hitting below 125,000 would strain some essential/necessity categories or cause us to access emergency fund savings (which we would do).  This is a portion of our budget for 2013 (and we're projected to come out a little below in a few categories but not many):

Property Taxes 40,000 

Utilities (water, electric, gas) 5,000*

Essential Travel (Gas/Car Insurance) 6,500**

Food 30,000***

Clothing 10,000

Health Care 20,000****

Property Maintenance 10,000*****

Educational Expenses 5,000******    [so that brings us to 126,500]

 

Caveats:

*We have spent money already adapting two of our properties to utilize some solar/wind power otherwise this would be much higher.

**We do not have car payments or this would be higher. We do include the insurance for our oldest daughter's car on our family policy.

***This includes groceries, paper products, and gardening expenses. It does not include meals out as that is in the entertainment budget. 

****We have spent $15,493 on out of pocket health care expenses(including medications etc) so far in 2013. We may get reimbursed for some of that (as some expenses were incurred for a foster child) but that is uncertain. 

*****This represents routine maintenance and necessary upgrades/replacement. It wouldn't include any elective upgrades, remodels, or expansion.  It also includes homeowners/property insurance policies with additional riders.

****** This includes material purchased and outside classes. It does not include college tuition for our oldest (thank you athletic scholarship!).

 

I did not include:

-Entertainment

-Activity Fund

-Savings [Future Education Funds]

-Savings [Emergency Fund--Easily Accessible]

-Savings [Long term CD/Bonds/etc]

-Retirement Fund  

As these would be largely be eliminated during a lower income period.  We have built our emergency fund to fund one year of the above essential expenses plus one year of typical retirement and educational savings contributions so retirement and educational savings could still be funded in most scenarios.  Other categories would be situation dependent.  Perhaps my answer is a bit too flippant because I also realize that if we were going to be in an extended lower income period we would take steps to liquidate long term savings, real estate assets, and perhaps even vehicles.  None of this would/could be done overnight and some of this would involve some lifestyle modifications (which we would and could adapt and make if necessary).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Renee in NC]

 Poor, I believe, is a state of mind, a loss of hope.

 

VERY TRUE!  This is what was so difficult about the years we were so bad off.  I had no hope that things would ever get better.

 

They did, but it was because I decided to quit waiting on someone else to do something about it.  I took charge of my life, and here it is, both good and bad.

[TracyP]

My dh was laid off several times between 2009-2012 and we averaged $33,000 per year during that time. We lived frugally, but we paid our bills on time, always had food, saved a bit, etc. We were even able to afford a new home in 2010. Besides our home, we have always been debt free. We also live in a fairly low COL area and are lucky enough to have very generous family. Still that would have been tough to sustain long term. I voted that under 30K would be low income in our situation, but maybe under 40K would be more accurate. I know if we got very far under 30K we would be one step away from poverty, not low income.

[elegantlion]

VERY TRUE!  This is what was so difficult about the years we were so bad off.  I had no hope that things would ever get better.

 

They did, but it was because I decided to quit waiting on someone else to do something about it.  I took charge of my life, and here it is, both good and bad.

 

And you rock. I am so proud of you.  :grouphug:

[Spryte]

In my area, a "secure, yet modest living" requires a minimum of $88K for a family of 4.  Second to the NYC area.  That's according to this.

 

Secure meaning no one is in danger of being homeless, I suppose?  But modest absolutely applies.  There is no extra for non-necessities, and nothing for something like private school tuition (!) or nice vacations, or even many extras at all.  That is pretty bare bones for this area.  

 

This area is such that DH recently had a very difficult time filling a starting salary position (in the $75K range) because most people simply require more than that to live.  Another member here quoted that salary as a "nice second income."  And she was right.  It would be fine for a single person starting out, but not for someone supporting a spouse or family.

 

I voted $75K and under as low income based on the above, but needed to clarify because I realize that's a high income in many areas.  Just not here.

 

 

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

In my area, a "secure, yet modest living" requires a minimum of $88K for a family of 4.  Second to the NYC area.  That's according to this.

 

Secure meaning no one is in danger of being homeless, I suppose?  But modest absolutely applies.  There is no extra for non-necessities, and nothing for something like private school tuition (!) or nice vacations, or even many extras at all.  That is pretty bare bones for this area.  

 

This area is such that DH recently had a very difficult time filling a starting salary position (in the $75K range) because most people simply require more than that to live.  Another member here quoted that salary as a "nice second income."  And she was right.  It would be fine for a single person starting out, but not for someone supporting a spouse or family.

 

I voted $75K and under as low income based on the above, but needed to clarify because I realize that's a high income in many areas.  Just not here.

 

 

 

Wow, it says we need 30,000 more than we make and they are calculating it with one less child than we have.  Yikes, no wonder we can't get our budget to work :(

[MomtoCandJ]

I agree with Faith on living in Michigan, the car insurance is ridiculous. We have to pay more because we don't have health insurance (Michigan has lifetime coverage of injuries that occurred in an accident) and that stupid no fault crap. Although in my area I do know of decent places to rent for around $350 a month, that's a mobile home though but not in a park.

Daycare is what gets me, I don't work because daycare and gas would eat any money that I would make, and put us in a higher tax bracket. It would also make my girls unable to get Medicaid.

We have natural gas for heat, stove and our dryer and I know that with our electric bill is cheaper then when we had everything electric.

[Renee in NC]

And you rock. I am so proud of you.  :grouphug:

 

Thank you.  The downside is that I lost my marriage in the process of pulling us up.  :sad:

[StaceyinLA]

Well I have lived at several economic levels. I was single with 4 children living on somewhere around 20k/year because I was babysitting full-time in my home and collecting child support. At that income, in our area (Louisiana), we had a small 3 bdrm house (1060 sq ft) and an old car that was paid for. My kids had insurance coverage through their father's job, and I had a catastrophic-type coverage. I was able to pay my household upkeep, and clothe my family. I did get food stamps for a period of time when we first separated as well, which helped a great deal. I will say that during that time, I never really felt there was anything we needed that we didn't have, and we got a good bit of what we wanted (mostly thanks to my mother as my dad had recently passed and she was able to buy a lot of the "extras").

 

After my current husband and I married, we lived in the small house for a while then upgraded to where we are now (5 bdrm house on 5 acres). Up until the last few years, we lived on around 60k/year. I felt like we always had everything we needed and a lot of what we wanted. Our kids didn't always get to participate in every activity or music lesson, but we had horses, dairy goats, chickens, pets, 4-wheelers, vacations, etc. We had decent, used cars, and we were able to purchase used cars cash for the kids as they each reached driving age. We were able to help them pay college tuition (they have all worked also), though 5 years ago we wouldn't have been able to pay, in full, for each of them to attend college for a full 4 years.

 

Over the last 3 years, my husband's income has more than tripled. We have our same home on 5 acres that is nearly paid for at this point (and has had a good bit of renovating and updating), and we have no debt. We still drive decent, used vehicles (except dh who gets a new one every other year through his job). We have paid for a couple of weddings, and a LOT of trips to Hawaii and VA to see grandchildren (in addition to paying expenses to bring them here a couple times/year). We are able to have pretty much anything we want at this point with exceptions of course. We still have 2 unmarrieds that are working/going to school and we help them a good bit. We take vacations, and treat the kids/grandkids to vacations. Honestly though, I think the biggest change is that we can actually SAVE money. We can make progress (such as remodeling or paying down or mortgage) we couldn't make on less. 

 

Based on all this, I think it would be hard for me to live under 100k and be able to spend the time I like to spend with my grandkids (the travel is costly). I have a goal to see them at least once every 8-10 weeks. 

 

That being said I think we could live in our same house and just cut to the basics and get by under $50k, and I think we could live reasonably decent for $30-35k if we had our house paid for or sold it and bought a smaller one with less property, or just a regular sized yard, with cash.

 

There are definitely ranges of what I'd need to maintain what I'd LIKE to maintain, what we would need to maintain some of what we'd like, and what we'd need to live with no extras.

[Heather in Neverland]

As you asked it... in my family and in my CURRENT situation... we make $50,000 a year in total and a family of 6 (if I include my live-in amah who does consume food and utilities since she lives here). We live quite well on that amount meaning my kids have piano lessons and tennis lessons and we go out to eat fairly frequently (although at cheap places, not nice restaurants). But we don't save very much money here.

 

On $40,000 it would still be manageable but the extras would go.

 

On $30,000 it would mean struggling and penny-pinching but still possible.

 

I would say less than $30,000 would mean not enough to pay our bills and buy groceries. Not "poverty-stricken" but not able to make ends meet.

[Catwoman]

Thank you.  The downside is that I lost my marriage in the process of pulling us up.  :sad:

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

He was the loser in that situation, Renee. He was incredibly lucky to have had you as his wife, and he should have been immensely proud of you for all of your hard work and dedication.

[Wheres Toto]

I put $50,000.  Based on experience, I know that $50,000 can just barely cover a safe, one bedroom apartment in an area where you will have a bit of a hike to a job with that income, a small car payment, car insurance, utilities not covered by the apartment (often heat, hot water, and sometimes AC are covered), food and other essentials.  But not any extras, savings, and anything unexpected will cause long-lasting problems.  The car will most likely be essential unless someone is lucky enough to both live and work near a bus or train stop (possible but not that easy especially in safe living areas) but that of course comes with its own expenses.

 

ETA:  I'm in NJ, so pretty HCOL. 

[Mrs Mungo]

In my area, a "secure, yet modest living" requires a minimum of $88K for a family of 4. Second to the NYC area. That's according to this.

<snip>

 

I voted $75K and under as low income based on the above, but needed to clarify because I realize that's a high income in many areas. Just not here.

For my area 2 parents and 3 kids require 120k to get by, according to that calculator.

[2squared]

For my area 2 parents and 3 kids require 120k to get by, according to that calculator.

 

My area requires $80k, and it looks like 1 kid = $15k.  We operate on no debt and a small mortgage which allows us to be comfortable at just under $100k with 5 kids.

 

Their healthcare and childcare costs are much higher than our actual costs, but we also pay private school tuition for 4 kids.

[lea_lpz]

It says for your family & circumstances, ie, family size + cost of living.

 

For a family of 5 in the Bay Area if we dip under 50,000 we struggle, and we live quite modestly on one income.