Poll: What would you consider low income for your family and circumstance?

[Ann.without.an.e]

This is what I said:

 

I know because I've lived it yet somehow managed to get out without getting judgmental towards those who have not.

 

My meaning is clear.

 

I don't care why you care so much about claiming that you spend so little on food and could (but have no actual experiexce) support a family far below the poverty line. Your posts present the idea that people who can't make it on impossibly low figures are just unable to make good choices or are unable to distinguish between want and need. That's not a world view I can support or pretend to think is peachy keen.

 

 

Many, many factors play into what someone does/can spend.  I did not intend this to be a comparison thread and that is why I changed it to "your family".  At the same time, I do know how frustrating it is when people who have not had to live  on little think they can live on less than they can.  I know that frustration.  I have no idea though about SKL....maybe they HAVE indeed lived on little and know that they can live on that little food. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Sounds like you are overly touchy and therefore read a lot into what I say.

 

Obviously you are a much better, kinder, smarter, and more honest person than I am.  Otherwise you wouldn't make it a point to attack me every time this subject comes up.  Who even brought up my food budget here?  You.  Your bringing up my food budget means I am trying to shame poor people.  Of course you are right.  Sorry about that.

 

Shame on me for sharing my personal experience like everyone else is doing.

 

ETA:  I edited out my personal experience lest anyone else feel shamed by it.

 

 

I am not saying you are being dishonest, I am just curious.  When did 3 people live on $300 a month, including eating out daily......Is that current?  Was that a year ago, ten years ago, etc?  Was it 2 adults and a baby, one adult and 2 young children, 2 adults and an older kid, etc.  All of that matters :)  It might help Lucy see what you are saying. Not that anything has to be proven.  I meant it all to be individualized.

[Carrie12345]

I voted based on my housing cost (can't afford to sell my home right now,)utilities (our house is ridiculous to heat,) health insurance (I think ours is pretty mid-range, dh works for a fairly small company,) cell phone (2) and internet (which both run high, as there's a monopoly in our area,) and our average food cost. Even without factoring gas (dh's is paid for by his company and I try to limit mine,) activities, holidays, or any of the other little things that add up like Netflix and printer ink, the number was pretty high, imo.

 

I realize some people might view some of those things as luxuries, and that could certainly be considered true. I included them in my number b/c I would only go without them if we truly could not afford them.

[LucyStoner]

Many, many factors play into what someone does/can spend. I did not intend this to be a comparison thread and that is why I changed it to "your family". At the same time, I do know how frustrating it is when people who have not had to live on little think they can live on less than they can. I know that frustration. I have no idea though about SKL....maybe they HAVE indeed lived on little and know that they can live on that little food.

 

I am sorry to have detoured your thread. What some one might call "overly touchy" is someone else's passion. Such is life.

[JFSinIL]

Wouldn't there be social security benefits for your son, and possibly for you as his caretaker, due to his disability?  My aunt lived on social security because she had a severely autistic son.

 

 

In Illinois Joe, 22,  gets $710 a month. I am not allowed anything.  I have to take his costs of living, clothes, food, paying us back for gas,  medical stuff not covered by his Medicaid (that crown he needed took him months to pay off) out of this $710 a month.   Illinois does not offer funding for caretakers unless the person's name is pulled in an occasional lottery   I hear in other states caregivers ARE funded - sigh. 

[swellmomma]

All sources of income combined I am now making about 48K a year and just starting to get out of the red(this is my first full month at the new income level).  But to do that I am working 2 jobs and adding more hours after xmas.  Previously I was at 31K a year and really struggling having to decide between mortgage, utility bills and food each month for our family of 5. So for me poverty level for my family is right around that 30K mark and under. As that is when I am at the point of robbing peter to pay paul.  At my current level, the bills get paid, the groceries can be purchased, and dd14 can get her much needed dental work, but there is no other extras at this point either until I get us fully back on track from the last 2 years of poverty. 

[joannqn]

We live at just about 150% of the federal poverty level for our family size.  With the exception of health care, we live comfortably enough.  We have decent housing in a decent neighborhood, plenty of food, and all of our bills paid.  Keeping everyone adequately clothed is doable.  A few areas aren't budgeted for but we always end up with extra income beyond our monthly average just when we need it. 

We'd almost be able to afford health insurance premiums (but not deductibles/copays) if we didn't have debt; most of our debt was accrued during a period when we had no income at all or another period where we lived below the poverty line for about a year.  We live on a cash budget now (ie. no cash, no buy) and are slowly chipping away at that debt.

We'd feel really tight at 133/% of the federal poverty level and poor at 100%.

[Tap]

Low income keeping status quo?  $50,000.  That would allow for the car payment on my new car, retirement funds, savings, private school etc.   We could pay our existing bills,  but would have very little left for food, emergencies (we would have to use savings to cover instead of regular checking), etc. We would not need state assistance as long as either dh or I had at least one job with medical coverage.

 

 

If I adapted and eliminated our ancillary expenses....sold my car, pulled dd out of private school, stopped contributing to retirement, etc, we could live on $30,000 and have the same money for food, bills etc. 

 

 

DH works full time and supports the family. I work part time and make about $25,000 per year.  All of my pay is disposable income for us and pays for our luxuries like private schools/college, braces, classes, travel etc.  Before we create a bill like tuition, we have already saved the money from the previous year and have it earmarked in an account.  Due to this, when dh lost his job 2 years ago, we were able to make it just fine for a year while he went back to school and just had my income and unemployment.  We cut out all extras, but were able to keep priorities like tuition in place.   We were absolutely pinching pennies to do so though.   

[SKL]

nm I am not qualified to answer

[Murphy101]

I really don't care what everyone else's daily expenses are. I haven't read SKL as saying everyone should live in $300 a month. I haven't posted my responses with an implication that everyone can raise a family of 12 on less than $60k without assistance either.

 

I thought we were just discussing the topic.

 

*sigh*

 

I'm sure there are folks who think it nuts that I think $60k isn't enough for a large family. Oh well. I really don't care what they think. They aren't raising my kids. I am.

 

Could we get by on less? Probably. Necessity is a mother and all that.

 

But living in poverty is not a virtue in and of itself.

For the most part it just sucks.

[twoxcell]

To me low income and poverty are a bit different. I would say low income is a bit above poverty. According to the federal poverty levels we are just above them for a family of 6, but we qualify for things like medicaid and WIC so I would say we are low income. Also it depends on family size so it is hard to answer the poll. ;)

[Um_2_4]

I voted based on my housing cost (can't afford to sell my home right now,)utilities (our house is ridiculous to heat,) health insurance (I think ours is pretty mid-range, dh works for a fairly small company,) cell phone (2) and internet (which both run high, as there's a monopoly in our area,) and our average food cost. Even without factoring gas (dh's is paid for by his company and I try to limit mine,) activities, holidays, or any of the other little things that add up like Netflix and printer ink, the number was pretty high, imo.

 

I realize some people might view some of those things as luxuries, and that could certainly be considered true. I included them in my number b/c I would only go without them if we truly could not afford them.

 

Yes I think this is what makes it individual. I don't spend much on gas (only go out 1x a week, maybe 20 miles total round trip), we don't do extra paid activities, and I consider paper costs/ink/books as not optional as they are part of DC's education costs. Even if we used free public school (which we wouldn't) I would still need school supplies, ink for them to do reports for school, books to read at home (library here is awful), etc. And to be honest if I COULDN'T homeschool, then they would be in private school (more $$) or I would move somewhere else while DH worked here. So that monthly cost is a necessity to us, but of course in survival mode, that spending would stop and we would make do with what we had till it ran out. (and probably sell what we could, kwim).

 

Supporting MIL and FIL is also a big cost for us and comes out right along with the mortgage at the beginning of the month. That is not optional for us. If we were in survival mode (DH lost his job or the like), then other family members would help out more, but since we can without it making us homeless, we do.

 

Selling our house would not help, other than maybe giving us some cash in the bank, because as I said we pay less with mortgage,interest and taxes then rent would be. A LOT less, life $500/month less. Plus I like the security of having a set payment and knowing that in survival mode, as long as we paid SOMETHING each month, we would be ok. In CA, even with a lease, if they don't have FULL rent by 3rd or 5th of the month, most places will begin eviction. And housing aid here has a 5 year wait,

 

I have taken a hard look at our budget this month and was looking for anyplace to cut, but really I can't find it...

We need internet (right now we pay $1/day) for kid's schooling (cheaper than driving to the library for computers and easier), DH's work and our phone (we use google voice - free - as our home phone).

.

I think there is a difference between low income (ie only necessities: food,shelter, clothing, no vacations, trips, luxury items, paid extras for kids, private school) and survival mode (having to pick which necessities to pay for: heating, shelter, food).

 

I took her question as how much to afford necessities for your family, not at what $ amount you would need gov't assistance or be at risk of becoming homeless. And everyone's necessities will vary based on life style, area they live in and priorities. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I really don't care what everyone else's daily expenses are. I haven't read SKL as saying everyone should live in $300 a month. I haven't posted my responses with an implication that everyone can raise a family of 12 on less than $60k without assistance either.

 

I thought we were just discussing the topic.

 

*sigh*

 

I'm sure there are folks who think it nuts that I think $60k isn't enough for a large family. Oh well. I really don't care what they think. They aren't raising my kids. I am.

 

Could we get by on less? Probably. Necessity is a mother and all that.

 

But living in poverty is not a virtue in and of itself.

For the most part it just sucks.

 

 

 

Exactly!  Also, "needs" are different from person to person.  Even the term "healthy" food can vary greatly from person to person.  When one person thinks of healthy food, they are thinking....fresh, organic, pasture raised beef, organic veggies and milk, etc and the other person is thinking "we eat, we aren't hungry, and it is somewhat balanced".  

 

For some healthcare is considered a need and for others it is considered a luxury or they are on medicaid so they simply don't even take it into consideration.  

 

I don't think $60,000 is enough, in our area, to sufficiently provide for a family of 12.  Just my opinion though.  And we are not in a super high COL area, if that matters.

[Ann.without.an.e]

To me low income and poverty are a bit different. I would say low income is a bit above poverty. According to the federal poverty levels we are just above them for a family of 6, but we qualify for things like medicaid and WIC so I would say we are low income. Also it depends on family size so it is hard to answer the poll. ;)

 

 

 

This is exactly what I was thinking....above poverty level, but not with excess.  When I think of low income, I do not think of needing government assistance or being homeless, I think of those who are barely out of the government assistance bracket or just below it.  If that makes sense?

[LucyStoner]

While it is personal and will always be influenced by personal decisions, there are people living in poverty and want for crucial needs. Many, many people. Many children.

 

I do think that there are more objective measures of need than any one person's guessing game. Measures based in statistics and data rather than anecdotes.

 

ETA- personally I think having the space to save for the bumps and rough spots of life is necessary but most moderate to low income people do not have this bandwidth in an era of stagnant wages and skyrocketed food and gas costs. This isn't a hunch, it's born out by savings rate data over the same period. This leads to debt or making small problems (a needed dental filling) big ones (an abscess) over and over in many very visible ways. The aggregate impact is large.

[Desert Strawberry]

In our town , the average household income is around $14k. We have lived on $20k. It wasn't lavish, but we usually had enough to eat. I would consider $20k lower income. 

We now have more than double that, and things are much better, but still tight. Compared to my Cali family, we are impoverished. But yesterday a local friend commented that we have a lot of money. It's all very relative.

Eta: we are paying off large student loans, so we only see about 2/3 of our actual income.

[Luanne]

I'd be thrilled to make $30,000 in a year.  That is why I selected "other".

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think that these discussions are good.  They bring perspective and diversity.  It gets my brain rolling and I like it, even the disagreement aspects.  

[Mergath]

We've lived at all different incomes over the last five years, as dh started out unemployed, got in through a sort of temp position with his current company, got hired on full-time, and worked himself to the bone to move up to a supervisory position.  And we seem to live in a moderately low COL area, for what it's worth.

 

When he was unemployed, we lived on exactly $12,000 a year, between food stamps and cash assistance.  We barely survived.  We couldn't pay all of our rent each month and ended up owing the landlord quite a bit of money (which we have since paid back).  We had enough food, but just barely.  There were no extras.  No internet, no tv, no phone, a miniscule amount of gas for the car.

 

When he got in as a temp, he started making around $18,000 a year (these amounts are all pre-tax, btw), which seemed like a fortune to us. :P  Of course, our assistance decreased markedly, So we weren't much better off than we were at $12k.  It was nice to use more of our own money for food instead of food stamps, but overall, we lived about like we did at $12k.

 

When he got hired on as regular full-time employee, he went up to something like $32k a year, which was like a dream come true. :P  We could pay all of our rent, didn't need food stamps anymore, had a little extra money for things (though we were still in trouble when a big crisis would come up, like the time our car got stolen) and life wasn't such a struggle.  It was still hard, and money was still tight, but we no longer lived in poverty conditions.

 

When dh got promoted, his pay went up and with all the mandatory overtime he works (60+ hours most weeks) he'll be getting just a smidge under 50k.  I know that's not much to some people, but for us and in this area, this is comfortable.  We can pay our bills, we can attempt to start making a dent in the mountains of medical bills that have piled up over the years, we can pay for dd's activities and hsing stuff, we can buy decent food, and we can have a few "luxuries," like decent internet.  We still only have one car, because we really don't need two with dh working nights, and our only "vacations" are when we drive up to Duluth to visit my mom and stepdad, but we're happy. :)

 

Looking back at this whole spectrum, I'd say low income for us would be about $25k a year.  That's the point where we could no longer pay our bills and meet our needs without assistance.

[swellmomma]

In our town , the average household income is around $14k. We have lived on $20k. It wasn't lavish, but we usually had enough to eat. I would consider $20k lower income. 

We now have more than double that, and things are much better, but still tight. Compared to my Cali family, we are impoverished. But yesterday a local friend commented that we have a lot of money. It's all very relative.

 

wow that is a low average income.  Average household income in my village (tiny town) is around $58K a year so I am still $10K below that currently.

[Murphy101]

This is exactly what I was thinking....above poverty level, but not with excess.  When I think of low income, I do not think of needing government assistance or being homeless, I think of those who are barely out of the government assistance bracket or just below it.  If that makes sense?

Just as an FYI, the govt doesn't seem to agree with you. That's why foodstamps qualification is often 120% or more above poverty level.

 

To me.. I have a much harder time determining poverty than low income.

 

I mean, to me poverty is pretty awful. My parents grew up in poverty. My parent raised their first three kids in a dirt floor 2 room shack with no indoor plumbing. That's poverty, so I can't bring myself to claim poverty status.

[RoughCollie]

I read this book when it was published many years ago.  It is an eye-opener about what it is like to be poor in America. 

Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America, by Barbara Ehrenreich.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_Dimed

 

I live in a place where there are lots of poor people.  I see what they go through.  It is not for the weak.  Remember, too, that we are not all equal.  We don't all have good physical and mental health, we don't all have high IQs, we don't all have the same benefits as pertains to our education, our upbringing, our abilities to make sound decisions and to come up with great strategies for how to run our lives, our impulse control, our strength or weakness of character, our temperaments, our support systems, our genes, our luck, and so forth. 

 

That's why I think it is important to try not to judge people.  We really do not know what all the small or large significant factors are that go into making people what they have become.  Pulling oneself up out of poverty by one's bootstraps is very difficult to do, and many people just cannot do it.  It takes a lot of strength.  The decks are stacked against many.  Just because some people can do it, doesn't mean everyone can. 

 

It is really easy for me to be judgmental if I compare some people to myself -- if I can do it, why can't they?  Because "they" aren't me; they are different in significant ways. 

 

It's also easy to look down from on high and surmise I can do something difficult like that.  Well, no.  It's kind of like saying I should have gone to med school and become a surgeon.  I don't really know that ... I haven't done it.  What if I made a poor score on the MCAS?  What if I couldn't handle the pressure and lack of adequate sleep it takes to become a physician?  What if I couldn't stomach cutting someone open?  What if the opportunity cost was too high and I decided to play instead of study? IOW, I don't really know that I could have been a surgeon.  Perhaps if I had tried, I would have failed.  Same with being in extreme poverty.  Perhaps I would be mired there, due to factors that are not within my control.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

Another really good read on family income in the United States is The Two Income Trap. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0465090907

[Desert Strawberry]

wow that is a low average income.  Average household income in my village (tiny town) is around $58K a year so I am still $10K below that currently.

 

Yes. It's a seriously impoverished area. One of the poorest in the country. Many homes have no phone, no electricity, no running water, and poor structural integrity. We are closer to rich than poor. We have no phone, no heat, and only recently added ACs to the house. It was nearly unlivable in the summers.

[LucyStoner]

If I went barebones....modest mortgage, utilities, small grocery budget, gas to work and back, house insurance, car insurance, property taxes.

 

NOT a dime for clothes/shoes, gifts, homeschooling, office/household supplies, entertainment (definitely not a need, lol), health insurance, vehicle repair, etc, etc, etc

 

Then I come to $28,000

 

That being said, I would think anything under $40,000-$50,000 should be considered low income because even with my bare bones, many of the basics (clothes, etc) aren't met.

I think your figures make sense. Here that income level is too low for low income house buyer programs. Renting would be the only option unless someone inherited a house or was a habitat for humanity buyer or something like that.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

wow that is a low average income.  Average household income in my village (tiny town) is around $58K a year so I am still $10K below that currently.

 

Whoa.  I just checked the citydata figures for my tiny NJ town (5000, maybe tiny is relative) -- $97,000.  That's what happens along the train lines to Manhattan.

[Carrie12345]

Whoa.  I just checked the citydata figures for my tiny NJ town (5000, maybe tiny is relative) -- $97,000.  That's what happens along the train lines to Manhattan.

Yup. My NJ hometown is $88k. Our last NJ town, $95k. We hopped states to an area with a median income of $57,000, but now we lack easy access to all of the wonderful things NJ has to offer! :-p

[Arcadia]

According to California's criteria, for the county I live in,

"Santa Clara County
4-person
Area Median Income $105,500
Extremely Low $31,850
Very Low Income $53,050
Lower Income $84,900
Median Income $105,500
Moderate Income $126,600"

[Shamzanne]

I chose other. There isn't an option low enough for what I would consider low income for my family's circumstances. Making $30,000 in a year would mean a huge jump in lifestyle. I wouldn't consider it to be low income for my family.

[Truscifi]

For our family size of 4, in our relatively low COL area, $40k would be low income. Moving into middle income, not doing great but not living paycheck to paycheck either, able to build up at least some savings, would be around $55-60k.

[hjffkj]

Well when we got married my dh was making roughly $32,000 and that was fine with just the 2 of us. We had enough to pay extra on the mortgage monthly, pay bills, not need a super tight budget, and still save money each month.  Now he makes about $35,000 and we have 3 kids.  Its getting very difficult to break even after bills and food are paid for.  I don't remember the last time we put money into our savings account   :thumbdown:  But we are fed and sheltered so I'm happy.   

[swellmomma]

Whoa.  I just checked the citydata figures for my tiny NJ town (5000, maybe tiny is relative) -- $97,000.  That's what happens along the train lines to Manhattan.

 

off topic of the thread, but I laughed about the 5000 being tiny.  My village had 803 people at the time of the last census. The town next to us that I work in and do my banking/grocery shopping etc has just over 4000.  We drive 45 minutes away to go to the town of 5000 to access what we need like walmart, dollarstore etc.  5000 feels big to me. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think your figures make sense. Here that income level is too low for low income house buyer programs. Renting would be the only option unless someone inherited a house or was a habitat for humanity buyer or something like that.

 

 

Well, Katie, that figure was literally just paying for a roof over our heads (modest roof for our area), utilities, really low on groceries, etc and it did not include any money for medical, clothes, etc.  I have no idea what the government assistance cut off is here. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Oh and what I call $50,000 would need to be $75,000 in N.J. - I used the cost of living comparison calculator.

[Alenee]

When dh was laid-off, he was given a $37,000 severance package and got a job making $40,000/yr. We were also on a private assistance program for low-income families. At the one year mark, we were literally at our last mortgage payment. If he had not been offered a new job back in his normal career industry, we would've only been able to afford a 1-2 bdrm house in our current city and only provide the basic necessities; maybe even go hungry.

 

eta: this was with no credit card debt, a $100 car payment, and a mortgage that was quite high. Had we foreclosed, we could've made it another year, (maybe), by renting a very small apartment.

[MomtoCandJ]

I voted 30,000 or less. Dh currently makes that and we are usually fine as long as nothing happens (took us two months to save $500 to have my car fixed). If need be we can go lower (no satellite, minimal data plan for phones, dropping collision on my car...)

[Catwoman]

$40k a year for a family of 4 in our area would be just scraping by (assuming no public assistance).

Sadly, where we live, $40k a year would have that same family of 4 living in a cardboard box. It's unfortunate, because people who work in the service jobs can't afford to live anywhere near here. There just aren't really any affordable options. :(

[Melissa in Australia]

We have 4 children living at home, plus one at university,. My DH was injured at work and is on a disability pension. We live well below the poverty level but do not live in poverty. That is only because of the way we live, we grow just about all our own food, don't buy new clothes, fix our own cars,  try to live as self sufficient as possible and, live in a country with universal heath cover.

[Dandelion]

Sadly, where we live, $40k a year would have that same family of 4 living in a cardboard box. It's unfortunate, because people who work in the service jobs can't afford to live anywhere near here. There just aren't really any affordable options. :(

 

Absolutely.  Location makes a huge difference.  

 

Just for fun, I just entered our annual income into a cost of living calculator, comparing Colorado Springs, CO to NYC.   The "equivalent income" needed to maintain our current standard of living in NYC is more than double our current annual income.

[Mrs Mungo]

Low average estimate for a 3 bedroom rental here is $30k/year, so I voted $50k.

[LucyStoner]

Low average estimate for a 3 bedroom rental here is $30k/year, so I voted $50k.

Most rentals here won't accept tenants that have less than 2.5 times the rent in income. So if the rent totals $30k a year, they won't approve renters (even with good credit and references) who make less than $75k a year. Most of the rentals without this requirement are sketchy in some ways to say the least. It really puts people who make even good wages in a bind and often results in people living very far out and then spending the "savings" and then some on commuting costs. Of course, our rents aren't Hawaii level by any means, though they are not cheap.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

We struggle now at over $50,000 and due to necessary medical have accrued some debt! 

Internet is high!

Groceries are going higher and I have to plan to drive over 28 miles (one way) every 2 weeks to get groceries.

We did just have a calf slaughtered and a freezer given to us.  

We have 8 children now and more taxes coming out of dh's paycheck that already had enough coming out.  

Water and Electric rates have risen.

 

DH does get a work cell and truck plus Insurance for both of us.  We quailify for alot but only applied for medical help for our children.  That saved us from bankruptcy with 2 in hospitals recently.

We try to raise vegetables and herbs and just got several chickens to free range and get fresh eggs.  

 

 Tums is also a good source of Calcium.  

[2squared]

Low income to me means that we wouldn't be able to create and keep an emergency fund. We wouldnt be able to save for retirement. We would ask for assistance/scholarships for the kids' activities and we may be eligible for government assistance of some kind. Low income would push me back into the workforce, and we would have both parents working to get us out of the low income range.

 

So, with that definition, low income for our family is $75k and below. I cannot mentally handle the possibility of not saving for retirement. I cannot handle the thought of not having savings in the bank. Thus I am working full time, my dh is working part time, my older kids are in parochial school, and my little guy goes to daycare a few hours/week.

 

Low income is much different than poverty.

[Crimson Wife]

According to California's criteria, for the county I live in,

"Santa Clara County

4-person

Area Median Income $105,500

Extremely Low $31,850

Very Low Income $53,050

Lower Income $84,900

Median Income $105,500

Moderate Income $126,600"

That really depends on the family's housing costs IMHO. Plenty of people in the Bay Area bought houses decades ago and have either a very small remaining mortgage or none. Since Prop. 13 dramatically limits the amount property taxes can go up each year, an "empty nester" couple making $60k/yr. and with a paid-off house could be much better off than a young couple making double or even triple that amount who are renting or who bought recently.

[DawnM]

If we had stayed in CA, it would have been fine.  We bought our first home in 1996.  The second house we bought in 2001.  

 

When we left CA in 2006, we knew it would be far more difficult to ever move back.  Property had gone way up and therefore, property taxes would be much higher as well.

 

There are times I wish we had just stayed in our house we bought in 1996.  It would be paid for by now and we could still live in CA where I would prefer to be.

 

Dawn

 

 

That really depends on the family's housing costs IMHO. Plenty of people in the Bay Area bought houses decades ago and have either a very small remaining mortgage or none. Since Prop. 13 dramatically limits the amount property taxes can go up each year, an "empty nester" couple making $60k/yr. and with a paid-off house could be much better off than a young couple making double or even triple that amount who are renting or who bought recently.

 

[DawnM]

These polls are far too subjective.  

 

In CA I worked full time and carried health insurance for the entire family 100% included in my health benefits.  My pregnancies were 100% covered.  I didn't pay a dime.  That alone was HUGE.

 

When I stopped working and Dh's job required us to pay $600/mo for insurance that wasn't even as good, I had a huge wake up call.

 

 

[fdrinca]

Right now we're close to "low income," and my husband is a tenured professor at a well-respected university. It's amazing how having four children *and* living in an expensive location can really change your perspective on income needs.

 

I voted 50,000. At this income level, all extracurricular activities would be out of the question (or subsidized via scholarships), we'd have to move to a less-expensive part of the area, our annual trip to visit family back east would be eliminated, and we'd really have to limit our driving to essentials to save gas money.

 

At our current income, we're able to do a few extracurriculars, make a vacation trip to visit family, keep our home in a gorgeous part of the country, contribute to the church offering basket, and take weekend camping trips every few months.

 

BUT: we have a strict food budget, buy all of our clothing/household goods used, heavily ration our water use, and rarely splurge for "extras" like dinner out or new toy/books.

[Renee in NC]

I answered under $30K, but that was before the poll changed.

 

We lived on less than $20K income in 2009 and 2010.  We did receive food stamps, and that was our entire food budget.  $1500 a month doesn't pay for much when you are a family of 8.  That was flat out poverty. I don't really want to re-live those details!

 

Now we live off of significantly more than that.  However, it still isn't "enough" for savings, vacations, etc.  We have a roof over our heads.  It isn't a great one, but I rented the "worst house in the best school district" that I could afford.  I have a 1993 Celica that I commute in, and we have a 2006 12-passenger van that I use when we all need to go somewhere.  The kids have clothes to wear and food to eat.  We have Netflix, internet, and a home phone.  I have a dryer that actually use.  I don't receive child support, which would make a HUGE difference. They are still the "poor kids" in their school, but it isn't near as bad as it was in FL.

 

I would be happy with $60K.  We would still be cosidered "low income" by HUD standards, and still below the median income for our county of $67K.  The median income number is very skewed, though.  Incomes (and COL) on the east side of the county where we live are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than on the west side.  However, I could make it work.  $65K would allow me to hire someone for after school, which would make my life much easier (and allow my dc to have after school activities.)

 

We're clawing our way to the top.

[TravelingChris]

I voted for my family, which is not what I think is the minimum for many others. But I have grown children with bad medical issues, requiring special help and I just spent 4000 so I can hear.   I have a house that it would be stupid to sell right now.  Our future income depends on things like high speed internet.  My husband is set to retire on Jun 1.  I am trying not to panic. He is well qualified to get a new job but I am panicked on how we will survive if he doesn't have a new job by June.  It will be a cut of about 50%, I believe. 

[Excelsior! Academy]

There are so many variables.  We live in a pretty low cost of living state.  Yet with 9 dc it would take a lot of $ to provide everyone with outside activities and all of the extras that are often considered necessities.  We are pretty frugal and strict with our budget, often making sacrifices to splurge on other things.  We eat a lot of beans and rice, but can save up to take a cross country vacation to a theme park every year or two.  Dh's work provides a pension and 401k and we tuck a little back into savings each month.  At this point it might not be enough for retirement, but we won't be feeding 11 mouths and our house will be paid off, so it could be...  It seems silly  to put $75,000  as low income as it seems like a chunk of $ and I know people can and do get by on much less, but per the thread that is what I will list.  It would maintain our lifestyle and keep us off of government programs and above the poverty line.