Pre-Algebra for a 10 year old?

[The Governess]

Dd9 is working through Singapore 5. We use the HIG, textbook, workbook, and IP book. I plan to work on the level 5 CWP book over the summer.

 

Dd has used Singapore from the beginning. She has all of her math facts and has had them since she was seven. Her strengths are: fractions, decimals, word problems (if she can figure out the model quickly), using traditional algorithms like long division, etc. When she misses problems, it's usually due to a careless error, not being careful with place value, not reading a word problem carefully or trying to take short cuts on model drawing. She has also struggled a bit with some geometry concepts - meaning she didn't get them immediately like most math concepts, and required more practice than what the books offered.

 

If you have experience with this type of student, do you think she will be ready for pre-algebra next year? I'm starting to research options and would love some input. I'm interested in AOPS long-term but don't want to overwhelm her. Tablet class sounds interesting too. And I've heard good things about Dolciani.

 

She is a social learner. She has been in a classroom setting before for math and thrived there. She doesn't really like puzzling through tough problems with me, or alone. However, in a group setting she will work hard to get the right answer or to be "first." I'm wondering if she would do well in a live class. Has anyone used AOPS pre-algebra's online class? Would this be too much for a ten year old?

 

Thanks for any advice. And please forgive me for rambling, my coffee is still kicking in. :P

[The Governess]

I should add: I've read several pre-algebra threads on the board, but still feel unsure about what to choose! Those threads helped me narrow down my choices, but I'm still not sure what to do.

[acurtis75]

We have used MUS as our spine and just use the CWP from Singapore. When dd finished fractions and decimals in MUS the next book was pre-algebra so we we started it even though she is young. It is a very gentle introduction to algebra concepts. I'm not sure if Singapore does this but MUS covers the concept of variables since very early so that might have helped the transition. In the very first book Alpha (which covers addition) there are problems like "what plus 4 = 6" and somewhere along the way the "what" changed to a letter variable.

 

I doubt your child would have any trouble with the mus pre-algebra book. 

 

Because my dd is young (turns 9 in late Feb.) and math isn't necessarily her favorite subject we supplement to keep things interesting. We are about half way through the mus book and I will probably start AOPs pre-algebra when she's done but we'll do it very slowly. She loves beast academy so even though she is well beyond 3rd grade math we will probably continue that by getting her books 3d & 4a for Christmas and her birthday. We also will continue with the cwp and are slowly working through the honors problems from the mus book and playing with the alcumus website.

 

 

[Dmmetler]

My DD did LoF Pre-Algebra and Key to Algebra after SM 5B and before AOPS-she was only 7 when we started LOF Pre-A, and I was nervous about starting her on AOPS. She started AOPS Pre-A this fall at age 8, and it's working well for her.

 

 

[Dana]

My son has moved from Singapore 5 directly to algebra and he's doing fine. He's taking my course at the cc and is keeping up with the pace. It's basic, so nowhere as deep as AoPS, but it's a fast pace.

 

I'd say moving to AoPS prealgebra text should be no trouble.

[HSinNH]

DD10 will be beginning Dolciani Pre-algebra after Christmas. She has used MM and it has worked well for her. She did not do well with Singapore because of the graphics/cartoons on the pages, not the actual math. She likes clean, uncluttered pages.

[WinsomeCreek]

Your dd sounds like a good fit for the online AoPS preAlg classes. She'd like the social part and it would probably motivate her to stick with the puzzling it out part. Perhaps working through some textbook probs or alcumus from AoPS alongside SM would get her used to the style. You know, alcumus and the forums are free so anyone considering using these classes or texts has full access to a trial run.

[boscopup]

My 9 year old is doing a combo of Dolciani and AoPS Prealgebra. It's working well for us. He completed Singapore 5B prior to starting.

 

Some people use MUS Algebra as Prealgebra, so that might be a good option also.

[Crimson Wife]

I have heard good things about the Courtney James courses if you'd like another option besides AOPS. http://www.mathperfect.com/index.php/group-classes.html

[The Governess]

We have used MUS as our spine and just use the CWP from Singapore. When dd finished fractions and decimals in MUS the next book was pre-algebra so we we started it even though she is young. It is a very gentle introduction to algebra concepts. I'm not sure if Singapore does this but MUS covers the concept of variables since very early so that might have helped the transition. In the very first book Alpha (which covers addition) there are problems like "what plus 4 = 6" and somewhere along the way the "what" changed to a letter variable.

 

I doubt your child would have any trouble with the mus pre-algebra book.

 

Because my dd is young (turns 9 in late Feb.) and math isn't necessarily her favorite subject we supplement to keep things interesting. We are about half way through the mus book and I will probably start AOPs pre-algebra when she's done but we'll do it very slowly. She loves beast academy so even though she is well beyond 3rd grade math we will probably continue that by getting her books 3d & 4a for Christmas and her birthday. We also will continue with the cwp and are slowly working through the honors problems from the mus book and playing with the alcumus website.

Thanks. How long do you expect MUS pre-A to take? Is it a whole year of material for an accelerated student?

[The Governess]

My DD did LoF Pre-Algebra and Key to Algebra after SM 5B and before AOPS-she was only 7 when we started LOF Pre-A, and I was nervous about starting her on AOPS. She started AOPS Pre-A this fall at age 8, and it's working well for her.

Thanks for sharing. I'm wondering if I should squeeze in some LOF pre-A before next fall. She does like the books.

[The Governess]

My son has moved from Singapore 5 directly to algebra and he's doing fine. He's taking my course at the cc and is keeping up with the pace. It's basic, so nowhere as deep as AoPS, but it's a fast pace.

 

I'd say moving to AoPS prealgebra text should be no trouble.

Thanks! I get nervous sometimes when people discuss AOPS pre-A. It seems so challenging. I think it's time I ordered it and looked it over myself. :)

[The Governess]

Your dd sounds like a good fit for the online AoPS preAlg classes. She'd like the social part and it would probably motivate her to stick with the puzzling it out part. Perhaps working through some textbook probs or alcumus from AoPS alongside SM would get her used to the style. You know, alcumus and the forums are free so anyone considering using these classes or texts has full access to a trial run.

Thanks for the reminder about Alcumus. That's a great idea!!

[The Governess]

My 9 year old is doing a combo of Dolciani and AoPS Prealgebra. It's working well for us. He completed Singapore 5B prior to starting.

 

Some people use MUS Algebra as Prealgebra, so that might be a good option also.

Thanks. If we go with AOPS, I was thinking of getting the Dolciani book to use for extra practice/instruction in certain areas if necessary. Glad to hear the combo is working well for you!

[The Governess]

I have heard good things about the Courtney James courses if you'd like another option besides AOPS. http://www.mathperfect.com/index.php/group-classes.html

Interesting, haven't heard of these before. I hope they are excellent at that price tag! Thanks for sharing.

[acurtis75]

Thanks. How long do you expect MUS pre-A to take? Is it a whole year of material for an accelerated student?

That would depend on how you use it. We use mus as our spine and have always moved through it quickly. There is a video for each lesson and then 6 worksheets and a test. The first 3 worksheets cover only the new topic and the last 3 and the test systematically review all previously learned math concepts. If you used all of the worksheets and the additional honors problems it would probably take the 30 weeks to get through the book.

 

Since dd learns very quickly and doesn't need much repetition we generally only do 1 worksheet and the tests. When we switched to this system she started enjoying math more and making less mistakes. Because we mix in all the other stuff I mentioned and we've been on a very light school schedule we only do 1 lesson per week now but she could do 3 or 4 if I let her. The other days I let her do beast academy or something else.

 

I will say this system has worked great for her but not so great for my math curriculum budget. We did Epsilon (fractions) and Zeta (decimals) in a few months each.

[Alte Veste Academy]

She doesn't really like puzzling through tough problems with me, or alone.

This is what would have me using anything but AoPS with this child. I can't recommend anything else (because I haven't gotten there yet with my similar child I doubt AoPS will work for), but I wouldn't start AoPS prealgebra or algebra with a child who resists puzzling through difficult problems. Especially a younger child.

[The Governess]

This is what would have me using anything but AoPS with this child. I can't recommend anything else (because I haven't gotten there yet with my similar child I doubt AoPS will work for), but I wouldn't start AoPS prealgebra or algebra with a child who resists puzzling through difficult problems. Especially a younger child.

 

This is why I'm wondering if an online class will help. She is much more motivated to figure out difficult problems in a class full of peers. Just not alone or with mom. I guess problem solving needs to be a social experience for her?

[Crimson Wife]

This is what would have me using anything but AoPS with this child. I can't recommend anything else (because I haven't gotten there yet with my similar child I doubt AoPS will work for), but I wouldn't start AoPS prealgebra or algebra with a child who resists puzzling through difficult problems. Especially a younger child.

This is why my DD is not using AOPS. Last year she did a combo of Singapore Discovering Math 7 & Horizons Pre-Algebra. She wasn't quite ready to move on to Singapore DM 8A so I pre-tested her with the MEP years 7-9 diagnostic tests. Anything she showed mastery on we're skipping (about 3/4 each of years 7 & 8 and about half of year 9). I'm also planning on having her work through Ron Larson's "Math and You", which is a consumer/"real world" math book at the pre-algebra/early algebra 1 level.

[Alte Veste Academy]

This is why I'm wondering if an online class will help. She is much more motivated to figure out difficult problems in a class full of peers. Just not alone or with mom. I guess problem solving needs to be a social experience for her?

 

Well, we have not done online classes, but my concern would be that there will still be a great deal (the vast majority?) of work to be done outside of class time.

[WinsomeCreek]

Yes, there is a good deal of homework outside of class. However, the class walks you through the problem solving process together, there is real time private discussion with the teachers and assistants available, there is a class forum to ask questions and have discussions, and kids can arrange to meet online in the classroom to discuss problems. It can be very social. Mine did not take advantage of most of these aspects, but they are there. I think the company shows great confidence in what they have to offer. The classes are not cheap, but you can drop and get a full refund up until the third class. Three weeks to try it out is pretty good!

[NittanyJen]

Dd9 is working through Singapore 5. We use the HIG, textbook, workbook, and IP book. I plan to work on the level 5 CWP book over the summer.

 

Dd has used Singapore from the beginning. She has all of her math facts and has had them since she was seven. Her strengths are: fractions, decimals, word problems (if she can figure out the model quickly), using traditional algorithms like long division, etc. When she misses problems, it's usually due to a careless error, not being careful with place value, not reading a word problem carefully or trying to take short cuts on model drawing. She has also struggled a bit with some geometry concepts - meaning she didn't get them immediately like most math concepts, and required more practice than what the books offered.

 

If you have experience with this type of student, do you think she will be ready for pre-algebra next year? I'm starting to research options and would love some input. I'm interested in AOPS long-term but don't want to overwhelm her. Tablet class sounds interesting too. And I've heard good things about Dolciani.

 

She is a social learner. She has been in a classroom setting before for math and thrived there. She doesn't really like puzzling through tough problems with me, or alone. However, in a group setting she will work hard to get the right answer or to be "first." I'm wondering if she would do well in a live class. Has anyone used AOPS pre-algebra's online class? Would this be too much for a ten year old?

 

Thanks for any advice. And please forgive me for rambling, my coffee is still kicking in. :p

 

 

I personally disliked AoPS's pre-Algebra book; I have liked at least one of their upper level books, so I obviously have not ruled out the series, but I really felt like they worked too hard to make a pretty simple subject far harder than was justified.  My math professor husband looked through it and felt the same way.  If a kid doesn't enjoy the challenge of it, I wouldn't make them do it.

 

Life of Fred pre-Algebra is hits some good notes, but doing it well will also pose some challenges here and there, but you said in a later post that she enjoys it; that may be enough of a carrot.  My older son has used Fred as his sole curriculum from Fractions through Beginning Algebra and we are pleased with the results.  We are changing things up this year for geometry/algebra II just to expose him to other things, but he'll go back to Fred.  (for geometry, we're actually using AoPS).

 

My younger, who only just turned 10, has been Singapore Primary Math since level 2.  After level 5B, we bumped him up to Singapore Discovering Math 7.  He is supplementing with Fred because he really loves it, but Singapore has just be such a great fit for him, we see no reason to change at this point.  He's the kind of kid who enjoys playing with Dragonbox and Hands on Equations when he gets the chance.

 

If Singapore math has been working for your daughter, is there a reason why you want to leave Singapore behind and move to something else?  I am more impressed by this next level up the more we use it, and the more I appreciate the scaffolding provided by the Primary math series.  His Fred training is really fitting in nicely as well; they make a great combo :)

 

I have to admit, I keep hearing about this Tablet Class and I get curious about it, but I would have to have a really excellent reason to drop Singapore at this point.  My curiosity is always piqued when I hear that a kid has excelled in PM, and the parent isn't sure what to do, but they don't list DM as one of the options they are considering!  I truly am curious!

[Tsutsie]

AOPS pre-algebra just looks like Singapore 6A and 6B with a lot more explanation/text? 

 

My 8 year old will be finishing 6B next week and I still can't figure out where to go next.

 

 

[StephanieZ]

AOPS pre-algebra just looks like Singapore 6A and 6B with a lot more explanation/text? 

 

My 8 year old will be finishing 6B next week and I still can't figure out where to go next.

 

Oh, no. AoPS PreA is Waaaayyyyyyyyyyy beyond SM6. Wider, deeper, better. Way.

 

I loved SM, but AoPS is the next thing. So great. So.

 

I recommend it whole-heartedly. 

 

Use it thoroughly, and include Alcumus. 

 

If your child really loves SM and you don't want to totally leave that style abruptly, you can include 6 IP and/or CWP for a few months as you begin AoPS. (Not necessary, but fun, and you have time!)

 

I also love and recommend Patty Paper Geometry as a light, fun, wonderful introduction to Geometry. Fits in great between SM and AoPS PreA (or any time in the next couple years).

[Dmmetler]

AOPS is way, way different from SM. As DD puts it, SM tells you what to do, and then you do it, and then the problems sometimes get a little hard (in the IP/CWP). AOPS starts with problems, and you try to do them. After you try, they tell you what you should have done, explain why it works, and then you do it and the problems get REALLY hard ;).

 

I can see why many would feel AOPS Pre-A is overkill, because it does get hard, and gets hard right out of the gate; DD's on chapter 5, and it's been relatively smooth sailing since chapter 3, but chapter 1 was almost painful, and chapter 2 was worse-we're talking a week on a single problem set if we wanted to keep math to an hour, often more than an hour on a single problem. And those weren't the ones with stars. I think it was a combination of simply that the problems WERE hard, and that she had to get used to the AOPS style.

 

I haven't really looked at AOPS Algebra yet. I bought both, because I wasn't sure if there'd be enough in AOPS Pre-Algebra to warrant doing a whole 2nd year of pre-algebra. Believe me, there is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chiguirre]

Trinqueta sounds a lot like your dd, except she's a year older. I think we're going to stick with SM for the long haul. I have AOPS Prealgebra, but I'm not sure T (or I) will be able to deal with the discovery approach. I keep waffling, but SM is not broke for us and as shiny as AOPS is, I'm not sure we should jump ship on what's worked so well. Instead of signing up for online math, perhaps you could do another subject online? T really loves Athena's Advanced Academy courses and her MP Online Latin class.

[wapiti]

chapter 2 was worse-we're talking a week on a single problem set if we wanted to keep math to an hour, often more than an hour on a single problem. And those weren't the ones with stars. I think it was a combination of simply that the problems WERE hard, and that she had to get used to the AOPS style.

 

Yes, ch 2 is hard (I know that set of exercises, LOL) but hard in an awesome way.  My ds10 who started the Prealgebra book late last spring had a lot of trouble with that set and I assigned parts of the same set again a few months later (I will probably have him do part of it yet again for review when he's finished with the book, with the hope that it'll be easier).  Another observation:  the exercises in several sections in the first half of the Prealgebra book, such as the one you mention, are longer than others and longer than the exercises that ds has encountered so far in Intro to Alg.  The second half of Prealgebra seems much more evenly-spaced.

[The Governess]

Well, we have not done online classes, but my concern would be that there will still be a great deal (the vast majority?) of work to be done outside of class time.

True. I guess I was thinking that the motivation to keep up with the kids in the class might give her a push to keep working. She's pretty competitive in a group setting. I have the same concerns that you do, but was thinking it might be worth a shot.

[acurtis75]

AOPS is way, way different from SM. As DD puts it, SM tells you what to do, and then you do it, and then the problems sometimes get a little hard (in the IP/CWP). AOPS starts with problems, and you try to do them. After you try, they tell you what you should have done, explain why it works, and then you do it and the problems get REALLY hard ;).

 

I can see why many would feel AOPS Pre-A is overkill, because it does get hard, and gets hard right out of the gate; DD's on chapter 5, and it's been relatively smooth sailing since chapter 3, but chapter 1 was almost painful, and chapter 2 was worse-we're talking a week on a single problem set if we wanted to keep math to an hour, often more than an hour on a single problem. And those weren't the ones with stars. I think it was a combination of simply that the problems WERE hard, and that she had to get used to the AOPS style.

 

I haven't really looked at AOPS Algebra yet. I bought both, because I wasn't sure if there'd be enough in AOPS Pre-Algebra to warrant doing a whole 2nd year of pre-algebra. Believe me, there is.

Your daughter's description is very helpful. I was also wondering if AOPs after completing mus might be overkill but figured since she loves beast academy (especially the concept of the harder star problems) and is starting to enjoy taking time to figure things out that going through it would be good for her. She is also enjoying the little bit of time she is spending on alcumus doing problems and watching the "funny guy" on the videos. I am enjoying that she is starting to understand that having to take time and effort to figure things out is a good thing. Always knowing the answer isn't a good thing and isn't even the most enjoyable way to learn.

[The Governess]

Yes, there is a good deal of homework outside of class. However, the class walks you through the problem solving process together, there is real time private discussion with the teachers and assistants available, there is a class forum to ask questions and have discussions, and kids can arrange to meet online in the classroom to discuss problems. It can be very social. Mine did not take advantage of most of these aspects, but they are there. I think the company shows great confidence in what they have to offer. The classes are not cheap, but you can drop and get a full refund up until the third class. Three weeks to try it out is pretty good!

This just sounds so great to me. I am leaning toward trying it, just so I can really know if it will work for her or not, rather than just assuming. It sounds like I need to get past the first chapter or two though before calling it quits.

[The Governess]

I personally disliked AoPS's pre-Algebra book; I have liked at least one of their upper level books, so I obviously have not ruled out the series, but I really felt like they worked too hard to make a pretty simple subject far harder than was justified. My math professor husband looked through it and felt the same way. If a kid doesn't enjoy the challenge of it, I wouldn't make them do it.

 

Life of Fred pre-Algebra is hits some good notes, but doing it well will also pose some challenges here and there, but you said in a later post that she enjoys it; that may be enough of a carrot. My older son has used Fred as his sole curriculum from Fractions through Beginning Algebra and we are pleased with the results. We are changing things up this year for geometry/algebra II just to expose him to other things, but he'll go back to Fred. (for geometry, we're actually using AoPS).

 

My younger, who only just turned 10, has been Singapore Primary Math since level 2. After level 5B, we bumped him up to Singapore Discovering Math 7. He is supplementing with Fred because he really loves it, but Singapore has just be such a great fit for him, we see no reason to change at this point. He's the kind of kid who enjoys playing with Dragonbox and Hands on Equations when he gets the chance.

 

If Singapore math has been working for your daughter, is there a reason why you want to leave Singapore behind and move to something else? I am more impressed by this next level up the more we use it, and the more I appreciate the scaffolding provided by the Primary math series. His Fred training is really fitting in nicely as well; they make a great combo :)

 

I have to admit, I keep hearing about this Tablet Class and I get curious about it, but I would have to have a really excellent reason to drop Singapore at this point. My curiosity is always piqued when I hear that a kid has excelled in PM, and the parent isn't sure what to do, but they don't list DM as one of the options they are considering! I truly am curious!

I don't have DM on the list because it is an integrated program (right?). This kid is such a social learner that I just don't know what homeschooling is going to look like for her. She is going to need outside classes in one form or another for at least some of her subjects. I'm just worried about starting her in upper level maths that don't follow a traditional sequence, and then needing to switch her to a class later and not being able to line things up.

 

Thanks for sharing about LOF. I think I will need to keep a few Pre-A books at hand while I am figuring out what works best for her; LOF will probably be one of them.

[The Governess]

Oh, no. AoPS PreA is Waaaayyyyyyyyyyy beyond SM6. Wider, deeper, better. Way.

 

I loved SM, but AoPS is the next thing. So great. So.

 

I recommend it whole-heartedly.

 

Use it thoroughly, and include Alcumus.

 

If your child really loves SM and you don't want to totally leave that style abruptly, you can include 6 IP and/or CWP for a few months as you begin AoPS. (Not necessary, but fun, and you have time!)

 

I also love and recommend Patty Paper Geometry as a light, fun, wonderful introduction to Geometry. Fits in great between SM and AoPS PreA (or any time in the next couple years).

I have Patty Paper! I was planning to pull it out during the geometry portions of this year's math. Looks like fun!

[Dmmetler]

I would second looking at Athena's Advanced Academy-the best part about those classes for DD is that they are social and involve live discussion with other people, as well as well-moderated message boards, which is great for the humanities subjects. Online g3 is a similar program, and we'll probably jump there for literature next year because DD will have done all the AAA classes offered. I'm nervous about AOPS classes because it HAS taken my DD a week on a single problem set at times. I'm afraid the pace would kill her enjoyment of hard problems. I've actually got in the back of my mind that it might be a good idea for her to do the AOPS classes in a few years as her "high school" math sequence, even if she's already worked through the books once, to build up to the pace expected in college math.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

I would second looking at Athena's Advanced Academy-the best part about those classes for DD is that they are social and involve live discussion with other people, as well as well-moderated message boards, which is great for the humanities subjects. Online g3 is a similar program, and we'll probably jump there for literature next year because DD will have done all the AAA classes offered. I'm nervous about AOPS classes because it HAS taken my DD a week on a single problem set at times. I'm afraid the pace would kill her enjoyment of hard problems. I've actually got in the back of my mind that it might be a good idea for her to do the AOPS classes in a few years as her "high school" math sequence, even if she's already worked through the books once, to build up to the pace expected in college math.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

I don't have DM on the list because it is an integrated program (right?). This kid is such a social learner that I just don't know what homeschooling is going to look like for her. She is going to need outside classes in one form or another for at least some of her subjects. I'm just worried about starting her in upper level maths that don't follow a traditional sequence, and then needing to switch her to a class later and not being able to line things up.

DM is integrated, but it would be very easy to switch to a traditional sequence after DM 7 (the student would have a head start on Algebra 1 and H.S. Geometry). DM 7 & 8 together cover Algebra 1; H.S. geometry is covered in 7, 8, and 3. Right now my plan is to finish DM 8 and the geometry portion of 3, then make the decision whether to outsource Algebra 2 & up. DD might attend a brick & mortar private high school so I want to make sure she has completed up through geometry by the end of 8th so that she isn't behind the honors track kids.

[The Governess]

I would second looking at Athena's Advanced Academy-the best part about those classes for DD is that they are social and involve live discussion with other people, as well as well-moderated message boards, which is great for the humanities subjects. Online g3 is a similar program, and we'll probably jump there for literature next year because DD will have done all the AAA classes offered. I'm nervous about AOPS classes because it HAS taken my DD a week on a single problem set at times. I'm afraid the pace would kill her enjoyment of hard problems. I've actually got in the back of my mind that it might be a good idea for her to do the AOPS classes in a few years as her "high school" math sequence, even if she's already worked through the books once, to build up to the pace expected in college math.

Athena's is definitely on my list! I'm waiting for their spring schedule to come out and hoping it works out for her to try a class.

[The Governess]

DM is integrated, but it would be very easy to switch to a traditional sequence after DM 7 (the student would have a head start on Algebra 1 and H.S. Geometry). DM 7 & 8 together cover Algebra 1; H.S. geometry is covered in 7, 8, and 3. Right now my plan is to finish DM 8 and the geometry portion of 3, then make the decision whether to outsource Algebra 2 & up. DD might attend a brick & mortar private high school so I want to make sure she has completed up through geometry by the end of 8th so that she isn't behind the honors track kids.

Ok, that's good to know. Maybe I need to look into this after all. :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

I am going to give a plug for my new favorite preAlgebra, program, Jousting Armadillos.  Not just because I love it, but because it sounds like it might be a fit, if you end up not going for the online class route.

 

It is deeply conceptual, and discovery method, but much, much gentler and more straightforward than AoPS PreA.  My dd sounds a lot like yours, complete with not loving to puzzle over hard problems, and JA is a much, much better fit for her.  It stretches her without making her lose her mind.

 

JA is based on Jacob's Elementary Algebra + Jacob's Math a Human Endeavor, both of which are good for younger students embarking on algebra.  There are 3 books that cover preAlgebra - Algebra 1, and it's designed for 6th-8th graders.  We really like it!

 

[StephanieZ]

I would second looking at Athena's Advanced Academy-the best part about those classes for DD is that they are social and involve live discussion with other people, as well as well-moderated message boards, which is great for the humanities subjects. Online g3 is a similar program, and we'll probably jump there for literature next year because DD will have done all the AAA classes offered. I'm nervous about AOPS classes because it HAS taken my DD a week on a single problem set at times. I'm afraid the pace would kill her enjoyment of hard problems. I've actually got in the back of my mind that it might be a good idea for her to do the AOPS classes in a few years as her "high school" math sequence, even if she's already worked through the books once, to build up to the pace expected in college math.

I am confident that once you are deeply familiar with the AoPS curriculum, you will change your mind regarding having your child work through the same AoPS books twice. Truly, if a child can work through the book once with some semblance of competency, they have mastered the material.

 

There are many lovely rabbit trails in AoPS, so you won't have trouble keeping her learning for many years with AoPS. Counting and probability, number theory, math competitions, etc. . . My youngest did prealgebra and patty paper geometry during third and fourth grades, and even with her comfortably plunging through algebra this year in fifth, I am still sure I can keep her entertained with all the lovely AoPS books and classes at least until mid to late high school. When I sketch out her classes, I still doubt she will take calculus before eleventh grade. Maybe tenth.

 

Fwiw, I think most very young (say, under about 12) students are best served by not doing the AoPS classes, but rather doing the book and alcumus (and videos as desired) with a parent/tutor. The classes simply move too quickly for most young kids to comfortably master the material in the time allotted unless they do little other schooling. I prefer to keep math to less than an hour daily in elementary school, so we are happier with skipping the classes at this age. For high school age, the classes can be very motivating and wonderful. Also, I couldn't easily teach the algebra3, precalc, or calculus classes, so I am grateful my eldest has used them to save me the time of learning alongside her. (Maybe I will have time once it is my youngest's turn) Since I can comfortably teach the prealgebra and algebra using the books, we are using that for my youngest. She did take the preA classes the first year they were offered, she did well, and they were super, but they just moved too fast for the complete mastery I desired, so the following year (4th grade) we repeated the material more thoroughly (taking time to master every section and do all the end of chapter challenge sets, etc) and with the PpG mixed in for variety. Now she is plowing through the algebra book like it is super easy, with very little help from me, even on the challenge sets, so she is now well prepared, but I think she would have been shakier without taking that extra time to solidify the wonderful prealgebra text.

[texasmama]

I have a 10 year old in AoPS pre-A, but he enjoys puzzling through the problems so it is a fit for him.  We work through it together (with his older brother).  He is not doing any part of it independently.  We watch the videos, work through the text together and then my boys solve the exercises on small white boards while I sit there.  If they struggle, I work out the problem on the large white board.  During the lesson, I am present to answer questions/give hints and reminders, which works well.

 

 

[The Governess]

I wanted to update this old thread. I decided the online AOPS pre-algebra class was worth a try for dd. We just finished chapter one and she is really enjoying it! I have been working through the problems with her Socratic-style, having her explain her reasoning to me as she decides how to approach a problem and giving her hints here and there to keep her from getting frustrated. This has worked well for her and she has been willing to struggle a little bit.

 

She loves the class dynamic. She loves getting the answer right and getting her response posted. She keeps track of how many posts she gets each class. She loves Alcumus and the videos. The teacher chooses seven challenge problems for them to try each week which is a good amount for her, I think.

 

Anyway, I wanted to give an update in case others are hesitant to try AOPS with a student who is great at math but has a relatively low frustration level.

 

I'll update again after we get through chapter 2 (gulp). ;)

[Spring Flower]

Anyway, I wanted to give an update in case others are hesitant to try AOPS with a student who is great at math but has a relatively low frustration level.

 

I'll update again after we get through chapter 2 (gulp). ;)

 

Yes! Please update us! I am wondering what to do with my DD when we get to that point. She sounds just like your daughter. 

[Embassy]

I'm using AOPS Pre-Algebra with both of my boys.  One is currently 10.  It has been a great move for both of them and they are very different learners.  

 

My 12 year old is nearing the end of the book.  It has been a struggle at times, but he has prevailed.  It has been difficult to challenge my son with academics, but this book does it.  He has had plenty of practice learning to be okay with getting things wrong so it has been a tool to teach math and life skills at the same time.  He has plans for a career that involves strong math skills, so AOPS has been great all around even though he isn't the type of student that would "fit" with the curriculum.  The wordiness is great for him though.  I typically leave him to do the reading and problems on his own and join him in going over any exercises that he missed.

 

My 10 year old is naturally math intuitive and a visual-spatial learner.  He might not have all of his math facts down yet, but he doesn't seem to find the book too challenging so far.  We go at a slower pace and he spends some time with Life of Fred, Zome, and watching Vi Hart and Numberphile videos.  With my 10 year old I use the book as a tool and I don't expect him to use it on his own.  I read aloud and teach from it. 

 

 

[Nicholas_mom]

We are going to start AOPS Pre-alg in about 2 weeks.  I am doing just some of Jousting Armidillo with ds because we didn't cover deeply the Order of Operations and Negative numbers and I thought JA would be a good slow start before doing AOPS.

 

I have a 11 yrs, a VSL, and I wish I did AOPS Pre-Alg with him last year! 

 

So far, JA is nice for starting out for school but is waaaay too easy program for my son.  He loves the puzzles and loves doing the "note to self" in the JA program.  Note to Self is something I will continue to do while doing Pre-Alg AOPS with him.

 

Thank you so much for your updates.  Please keep it coming! :)

 

Oh, and I forgot, he does have a low threshold for frustration of problems, too.  Last year, he loved LOF -Fractions/Decimals/percent but he did have some meltdowns on occassion with LOF.  SO, I am alittle nervous about AOPS but I like that we have videos to go along the program.

[Momling]

We enjoyed galore park SYRWL Maths after Singapore. My daughter did book 2 following SM 6b, so you might start at book 1 after SM 5b. It had a nice mix of different topics of middle school math and was not intimidating like some pre-algebra books. After book 3, algebra is a breeze!

[The Governess]

Well, we finished chapter 2 this week. Whew! Those first two chapters were packed full of rules, properties, and definitions. I wouldn't say that she has mastered all of them, but she can do most of the work on her own. She is able to do about 75 percent of the exercises and review problems independently. She is assigned 7-9 challenge problems each week through her class, one of which has to include a step-by-step written explanation of her solution, and so I haven't been assigning more from the book. She's been doing all of the Alcumus problems; these and the videos are her favorites. She told me, "the guy in the videos is funny and knows a lot of math. And this math class makes me feel really smart." :)

 

Anyway, I think that the class and text are proving to be a good fit for her which is quite a relief! And I feel that Singapore 1-5 prepared her well.

[The Governess]

I wanted to update this old topic. My dd finished the AOPS pre-algebra class today. It was so much work but she made it through! She mastered all of the Alcumus pre-algebra topics. She learned how to write out a clear, step-by-step solution to a challenge problem. Best of all, she learned that problem solving can be fun even when the problems are hard. She is feeling very accomplished today (and so am I!). I feel like she is truly ready for Algebra. :)

[kiwik]

Thanks. I love updates.

[aly9712]

I'm sure it changes, but roughly how much time would you say your daughter spend on math outside of the class?

[sportsmom]

Thanks for resurrecting this old thread.  We will be starting AOPS PA in the fall and it really helped to read through this.