I got the go ahead from dh to pursue a neuro-psych eval for ds9

[Soror]

BUT now I'm feeling nervous. What if it isn't needed? What if it is a deficit in my teaching or he is in the range and I'm just wasting our time and money? I generally feel that moms have a good intuition but then again I know so little about all of this. There is just so many things, dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia, visual processing issues, working memory, deficits, etc. etc.

 

Right now I'm wondering if I should give him some accommodations. I'm wondering if it would a be good thing for me to allow him to use a calculator or a multiplication sheet. I've always been so against it but I wonder. I wonder about his difficulty writing. He still has some misplaced capital letters and reversals with letters and numbers. He stutters a bit at times and seems to have a hard time getting everything in his head out. The stuttering is not often but when he is trying to tell a big story or such or gets very excited. He struggles w/ multi-step math problems though and seems to get lost in the steps w/out redirection.

 

However, he did finally learn to count, rhyme and left from right. He has learned to read. He actually spells on grade level. He seems to be really taken to grammar this year. He has great comprehension when he reads. He has a great memory for what he hears and sees but still cannot memorize very well at all. He is horrible w/ people's names.

 

I did him evaluated by a COVD year before last I think she didn't find any issues.

 

What I'm hoping for is some info about whether accommodations are warranted and exactly what would be the most beneficial w/out giving too much. What are appropriate expectations, I try to give him appropriate challenge but at times I wonder. I'd like to know if there are specific ways we can help him to help him in areas he is challenged. I'd also like to know his strengths and to make sure we are really helping him to reach his potentional.

[Julie of KY]

I think it is worthwhile to follow your "mom instincts". Even if they don't find anything "wrong", the evaluation can be very helpful to learn his strengths in learning and to give you direction.

[PeterPan]

nt

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree with Julie and OhElizabeth.  Having an evaluation gave us paths to follow for both strengths and weaknesses that we would never have known about otherwise.  It was a HUGE relief for my family to have concrete answers and specifics even though my husband and even my mother were not comfortable with getting it at first.  And it DID help with those who questioned homeschooling as a choice for kids with learning issues.  And it helped my kids to better understand why they function so well in some areas but have difficulty in others.  It helps them to be more resilient in the areas they struggle because they know they aren't stupid or incapable.  They just learn differently and need a little more help in some areas.  As their teacher it also helped me to feel more confident that when they do struggle it isn't because I'm a lousy teacher.  We just need to keep working on finding a better approach.  The eval gives me places to look for additional answers when things really aren't working.  It also gave me areas of strength that I didn't know they have.  What a great piece of knowledge to have!  And I was able to show the kids and my husband and my mother "Look at what they CAN do, right now, and what amazing skills they have the ability to develop right now, that were not being tapped."

 

As a bonus, it also helped me to understand what questions to ask even on this board and to be able to take those suggestions and turn them into something I could use.  The evaluation was the wonderful starting point to an amazing journey in how we, as human beings, learn.  The awesome women I learn from every day on this forum and others are helping guide me further in that journey, but the eval was what got us on a better, more clear path in the first place.

 

You must do what works best for your family.  Not all children need an evaluation as soon as they show signs of difficulties, especially if you are homeschooling since you can do remediation and accommodation based on what your child really seems to need.  Just don't be afraid of the evaluation process.   It really can be a huge help in guiding you on what remediations and accommodations would benefit your child the most.

[texasmama]

Having the information from the eval will inform your teaching in ways you probably cannot even imagine. It will likely provide some reassurance that your teaching is not the deficit and it will help you to make a specific and individual plan for your child. (Speaking from experience)

[Soror]

The stuttering is not often as I said. Maybe I'm completely ignorant here but I think it is more of a brain thing than a speech thing. It just seems he cannot get everything out fast enough or cannot figure out exactly what he wants to say. I notice it as well that when he is writing he has a hard time picking out words and such so he just sits there stalled, it seems to be related. He was slower to speak but not outside the realm of normal.

 

He is actually at grade level in everything now, except writing. I do a fair amount of scribing for him in various things or do it orally.

 

Socially he doesn't have any issues that make him stand out, he's just a normal kid. He's very outgoing and not quirky imo. I don't get any flack, well not now. Unless someone was working w/ him I don't think they would know what he has issues with as he doesn't have a need to do multi-step math problems w/ him or ask him to do much writing. Well, they have made fun of him for his inability to remember his cousin's name, he finally got that down this past year at 8. It is the same w/ my husband's co-workers we went every week for a good while and he is just now able to remember their names.

 

I wouldn't mind to learn his IQ, at first the idea terrified me, as I just thought perhaps he was slow and I didn't want to know, that is terrible I know. Now as he's gotten older I think he is just a late bloomer, which is also what makes me hesitant on the testing, he has made such huge strides perhaps if I wait longer the rest will resolve. But then when it takes 45 min for one problem when I'm not there to redirect and keep him on track. Or times when I look at his writing and his reversals but then again he does usually notice what he does wrong he just doesn't catch it beforehand.

 

I feel so utterly conflicted. One minute I think he is brilliant and the next I wonder. One minute I have no idea as to how he knows something and the next I wonder how he doesn't know something else. My suspicion if that if he is anything he is 2E but I could be way off. He seems fairly bright but I don't know that he is in the gifted range but perhaps mildly so.

[texasmama]

IQ testing is a mixed bag. With my son, I never felt that the IQ testing captured the true picture of his IQ, as he had such disparity from one subtest score to another. So try not to be upset by the number on the paper. (I was upset at testing several years ago and not as much more recently because I had learned what my son was capable of. ) Also, testing results can change as kids get older. For one, the testing instruments change. I don't regret testing. (And it has been done multiple times, as we are fortunate enough to have a good public school special Ed department who wanted to help me and my kid.) testing provides information. Information is useful.

[kbutton]

We are so glad we got an evaluation, though our path wasn't a straight line. We had one evaluation with conservative recommendations (environmental change, etc.) to help rule ADD in or out. The psych was nice, competent, and professional, but he was rather narrowly focused on possible ADD (his specialty), and we had some practical issues that made him a less than ideal fit for our family. It gave us something to go on and some things to look for. In the meantime, we saw different things at home that helped us realize it probably wasn't ADD but maybe sensory problems. We were right but had an incomplete picture. We saw another psych a few months later, and she picked up on some different things, retested when it had been a year, asked us many questions, discussed assessments with us, and then handed us a diagnosis that would have bowled us over the year before--Asperger's. We are confident the psych is right, and she eased us into the idea. Our perception of Asperger's (no eye contact, lack of empathy, etc.) didn't really fit with what we saw in our son, and the diagnosis would have been harder to accept if we hadn't "just happened" to hear some really key distinguishing things about what 2e Asperger's kids can be like in the meantime (at a homeschool convention). We really would be barking up the wrong tree and doing a lot more of the wrong stuff if we hadn't gotten an evaluation. It was also affirming to hear about all the things that we were doing right, particularly since some of those things have been difficult, have been guesses on our part, and have been things we've been roundly criticized for. It's nice to know that some things that bothered us and worried us are developmentally appropriate for him, and that we can put those issues in perspective rather than worry about them.

 

In many cases, a child's exceptionalities are likely to become more difficult to deal with up to a certain point as they age and face greater academic/social expectations, but there are exceptions to that. If you can get a handle on these things before the academic and social demands get in the way, you can face those demands better equipped to help your child. Even late bloomers can appreciate someone smoothing the path for them.

 

We also had mixed results with the IQ test. It told us that our son is gifted, but our psych doesn't feel that it pins down his true IQ. It does help us see what areas are a struggle and where he has strong points, and some of the processing scores will start the documentation we'll need should he need accommodations for the SAT/ACT.

 

We are just beginning evaluations for our other son (he's having few problems, thankfully), but we feel confident that we're heading down a helpful path now that we've been through a round.

 

[Lecka]

It sounds like he has some challenges, and maybe there are ways to help him.

 

I think that is a good reason right there.

 

If the reason not to do it is that maybe there is nothing wrong ---- I think maybe you could ask in the intake process. For my younger son we had paperwork and filling it out it seemed like I was giving answers that would show a concern.

 

If not that you might have a telephone call to discuss things.

 

So I think you can dip in a toe prior to being absolutely committed.

[PeterPan]

nt 

 

[SandyKC]

I've work with hundreds of parents and my boys too.. And you know what?  I've NEVER known a mom's intuition about the possible existence of LD's to be wrong.  I've never had a parent who thought her child has "something" going on, but can't put her finger on it, come back and say the neuropsychologist couldn't find anything.  When it's something perplexing going on, that you can't quite figure out, it's often a combination of two or more underlying cognitive issues like memory-recall functioning, perception, processing speed, executive functioning, or some of the typical ones you hear about.  I'm thinking there's a good bet that there is something going on and it isn't "just your teaching," and the only way to KNOW is to have the eval.  Also, study after study shows early intervention works best, so if you know exactly what the issues are, then you can address them.  Otherwise, you may spend more years trying this and that and then still need an eval.  If you've gotten the go ahead, I'd recommend going ahead.  Additionally, it helps establish an earlier diagnosis should your DS decide to go to college and seek accommodations. ;-)

[PeterPan]

nt

[texasmama]

I agree with Sandy. When my kid was three, I strongly believed he had some some of LD. At the time, the professionals involved with him believed he was on the spectrum. Nope, he has some learning issues combined with wicked sensory processing issues. Testing helped to pin down the specifics. It gave a description to what was going on with him. It is hard to remediate what you don't know about. You end up guessing at what is needed and then second guessing yourself. Sometimes (as with my son) the issues were not typical or clear cut. He was not dyslexic. He did not have ADHD. He did not have any of the specific learning disabilities commonly seen. He actually would not qualify as having an LD by the public school. But he had some problems that were very specific and it was very helpful to have those named. Then I took the information and sought out ways to remediate them. He also received years of OT. He still has some issues, but he is doing really well at 13. I am glad we got the information and help early. I think it changed his course in a positive way.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Even if a neuropsych can't find anything to diagnose (doesn't sound like the case here), an eval is still very valuable and will give you tons of information.

 

My dd had a neuropsych done at 6. My "complex" 9 year old still has not had one because I can't find a provider.

[geodob]

I would suggest that the tests will show that he has strong Verbal Comprehension, and will have low scores with Perceptual Reasoning, which is visual-spatial processing.

Though it is Spatial processing that really needs to be looked at.

Where we concieve of numbers with spatial thinking, with Dyscalculia being a spatial disorder.

Spatial disorders also cause writing difficulties and Dysgraphia.

But spatial processing also plays a critical role in organizing our thoughts. Whether it be dealing with multi-step problems, or planning out a story in our mind.

Though with a spatial disorder, their is no sense of where we are up to, and what comes next.  

Where the stuttering that you mentioned, is quite likely a pause, to try work out where he is up to?

With his being 'horrible with peoples names'?

This is quite likely a difficulty with facial recognition?

Which is called Proposagnia, and is related to spatial disorders.

 

Though it is important to separate spatial and visual processing, where I note that he does usually notice his reversals when writing.

With a visual processing disorder, this wouldn't be noticed.

Where you wrote that he has 'visual processing issues'.

Though spatial disorders limit what can be done with visual processing.

So that his way of using visual processing needs to recognized, and made use of in his own way.

[Soror]

Elizabeth- I'm not connecting dots because I don't even know what the dots are yet :) I read your link and that does seem like his issue. Although with writing it is not always that he cannot come up w/ what to say but that he will vacillate between different ways to phrase something or what word to use and has a very difficult time just choosing something. He generally has a good(to very good) vocabulary but he does fall back to thingy a fair amount, dh teases him about it( in a good natured way). It does greatly help when I scribe though as adding writing on top of figuring out word choice really takes forever figuring out what to write. He has the hardest time when telling stories, although he loves to do so but he has excellent memory when doing narrations and does dictation well also.

 

He does recognize faces but he has a hard time connecting the names w/ the faces. For example w/ his 2 cousins- 1 is a girl and one is a boy, their names have the same ending, until last year or so he called them collectively both names together. It is the same w/ my husband's co-workers they were all LarryJoBucky, perhaps w/ both of those cases it was due to always seeing those people together? He still messes up people's names but he does eventually get it and he doesn't/hasn't combined names w/ anyone else that I can remember. He has offended more than 1 kid by repeatedly calling them the wrong name.

 

I was reading about the accommodations some colleges offered and was blown away. I have worried at times that I coddle or such but seeing that they recognize that some need specific help and that this isn't an unfair advantage was really eye-opening. I have the neuropsych's number pulled up. I got it from Hoagie's site he works w/ 2E kids and if I'm wrong at least he has a wide-range of experience. Now, the kicker is getting a quiet moment to call.

[SandyKC]

He generally has a good(to very good) vocabulary but he does fall back to thingy a fair amount, dh teases him about it( in a good natured way). It does greatly help when I scribe though as adding writing on top of figuring out word choice really takes forever figuring out what to write. He has the hardest time when telling stories, although he loves to do so but he has excellent memory when doing narrations and does dictation well also.

 

He does recognize faces but he has a hard time connecting the names w/ the faces. For example w/ his 2 cousins- 1 is a girl and one is a boy, their names have the same ending, until last year or so he called them collectively both names together. It is the same w/ my husband's co-workers they were all LarryJoBucky, perhaps w/ both of those cases it was due to always seeing those people together? He still messes up people's names but he does eventually get it and he doesn't/hasn't combined names w/ anyone else that I can remember. He has offended more than 1 kid by repeatedly calling them the wrong name.

 

I was reading about the accommodations some colleges offered and was blown away. I have worried at times that I coddle or such but seeing that they recognize that some need specific help and that this isn't an unfair advantage was really eye-opening. I have the neuropsych's number pulled up. I got it from Hoagie's site he works w/ 2E kids and if I'm wrong at least he has a wide-range of experience. Now, the kicker is getting a quiet moment to call.

 

This sounds SO MUCH like my oldest, right down to "thingy," the stuttering, and his inability .. after having our dogs for the entirety of his life my son couldn't keep their names straight.  Wondering if your DS asks the same question multiple times too, like "what's for dinner?"

 

With my DS, it ended up being a memory-recall issue.  My son had a HUGE fund of information--very smart and could remember all kinds of facts and information, but he could not quickly and easily recall the info when he was talking.  Thus, he couldn't remember the "labels" for things such as names of our dogs or relatives, multiplication facts, phonemes, etc.  He would frequently substitute "thingy" for objects and "that person" for people's names... Remembering once, "You know that person who is the mom of my cousin?"  --- "You mean, Aunt D?" -- "Yeah, her.." 

 

When DS had his first neuropsych eval it showed deficits in the recall aspect of memory, rapid naming difficulties, executive function disorder, a slow processing speed, a lack of phonemic awareness, and other issues.  He was a very complex kid--Very high vocabulary, superior intellect, but also severe issues with dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc.  His scores ranged from the 2nd percentile to the 99th percentile as far as various abilities go, which made him quite a unique puzzle of an individual to teach, but he is also a highly rewarding guy to teach because he constantly amazes me with the connections he makes between things he learns.   His pattern recognition and "narrative" learning abilties are excellent, which enable him to connect ideas and concepts where other people overlook things. His Face Recognition and Visual Processing were both very solid and he is a highly visual individual, 3-D thinker, and learned really well by watching the History Channel, Discovery Channel, etc. as far as content knowledge goes.  The basics of reading, spelling, and math facts took very direct, one-on-one instruction. 

 

The GREAT NEWS?  It took about three years of specialized programming to give DS mastery of the basic academic skills.  With his high intellect, strong vocabulary, and great reasoning abilities, he has soared since then.  He went to college on an honors scholarship, is a senior this year and will graduate with honors.. He has extensive accommodations in college, many which we didn't even ASK for, but which the Disabilities Director felt were "essential" for my DS' ability to have equal access.  For example, since DS could read, we did not ask for audio versions of his textbooks.  The DD said, "There's a LOT of reading in college.  Reading is still hard work for him even if he can do it, so to level the playing field at college and to allow him to read the texts in less time, we are giving him AMAC textbooks."  DS got a long list of accommodations, many of which he doesn't use--including the AMAC audio texts, but they are there if he needs them.

 

SO, if it turns out your DS has similar issues to mine, feel free to private message me and I can walk you through what we did to address various issues. 

 

[Soror]

Well, I just went ahead and sent an email, that is a start and much easier than a call for me. Now I'll be on pins and needles checking my email. I just started w/ the basics- what kind of testing he provides, cost, wait time and asked if he had experience w/ hs'ers.

[Soror]

Thank you for the info Sandy if ds' does turn out to be similar I will certainly be in contact. Thank you for the link about EF I am so ignorant about all of these things. It does seem that he has a combo of issues as with everything I read I can see him but also nothing fits just exactly.

 

I do think ds is pretty bright and I can already see that I think he will do really well, assuming I can figure out how to best reach him. He makes some pretty big connections and seems to learn at times just by osmosis. As he has said many times hard things are easy for him and easy things are hard.

[SandyKC]

"He has said many times hard things are easy for him and easy things are hard."

 

That's an EXCELLENT way to describe it.  I always marveled at my DS asking in KINDERGARTEN, "Why doesn't my brain work right?"  He was in public school at the time and smart enough to recognize his thinking processes were not the same as other kindergartners.  If I'd known then what I know now, I would of pulled him out of PS right away, BUT.. Live and learn..

 

I had that, "everything seems similar, but nothing quite fits" feeling too.  The pattern of strengths and weakenesses my DS has doesn't fit any specific syndrome or diagnosis.. He's his own unique kind of guy, which happens to sound very similar to your unique guy.  ;-)

 

Keep us posted! :-D

 

[texasmama]

Good job for emailing, mama.  :) 

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck!

[PeterPan]

nt

[PeterPan]

nt

[Soror]

Elizabeth- I think you're right I have talked to him some as there were times I thought he was rude and insensitive about it. I think that ds has a good self-concept though.

 

Ds is a hard worker and fairly compliant and I would like to pursue any treatments or such that might be of help. The psych is at least 2 hrs away though as we live rurally.

[Lecka]

My older son might have that kind of speech, and the word used for him is cluttering.

 

He has improved a lot with speech therapy (originally for articulation and phonological processing) and now it is like -- there is some minor cluttering. He is not in speech therapy anymore.

 

Cluttering was a new word to me, though.

 

(He is supposed to use self-monitoring strategies and the speech teacher at school checks up on him. He has an IEP still but does not go to speech therapy.)

 

I think his word-finding is fine, though. He has a lot of trouble with people's names, but it is because it is hard for him to link a name to a person. It is like a rote thing to him, matching a name to a person. He has trouble with one-to-one matching all the time. When there is a context and he can learn someone's name and have a greater association, then he has no problem.

 

/crosspost I believe education is not a competition. So it is not something where there can be an unfair advantage. It is fair for everyone to be able to participate. I don't think my son is getting an unfair advantage, just what he needs to do well and keep up and have a good experience in school, which I think is his right and need, even if other kids don't need and (therefore) don't receive some things he needs. Other kids who are normal are getting things my son does not -- they are just things considered normal to get. My son's things are just normal for him.

 

He does not get help in things like making friends, social areas, behavior, etc where it is not some "extra" things for other kids to get a little social engineering or hints or set-ups done on their behalf, and no one thinks it is unfair that kids get those things.

[PeterPan]

nt

[PeterPan]

nt 

 

[Soror]

Yes, it will be an adventure. We like visiting the city though we just don't want to have to make that trip super frequently due to the money and hassle, especially w/ all the kids. Dh only has limited vacation days as well so I'm anxious about that aspect as I'm not very experienced driving there.

 

My friend is attending our local CC and even they have accommodations for students, she is taking notes for someone. I had never heard of that while I was in school.

[FairProspects]

Yay! I'm sure from previous threads that you have a 2E on your hands. That word retrieval issue can be a sign of a stealth dyslexic and is one of ds's biggest issues too. I'm excited to hear what you find out.

[Tiramisu]

The take I've read on accommodations is that if you give the accommodations to the NT as well as the person with the disability, the NT scores/results remain essentially unchanged.  So for instance I read about a physics instructor who was peeved at the request for accommodations (extra time, blah blah) and decided to give the accommodations to ALL the students.  The extra time made NO DIFFERENCE in the outcome.  Poor students still did poorly.  However someone who is being held back only by their disability maybe find their scores go from failing to passing.  So having access to accommodations is HUGE and not at all unfair or giving them an advantage.  You could give the same things to all the other students and their scores wouldn't change. The instructor of La Classe Divertide does btw.  My dd technically should get extra time on tests.  Instead he gives the test and they ALL can have as long as they need.  Doesn't change the outcome.  

 

Btw, my friend who works at a university tells me their great frustration with kids with issues is that the kids WON'T USE the services.  The university wants to give the accommodations, and the kids are not used to requesting them, are afraid of a stigma, don't want to be different, want to "try" to do a semester without, etc.  I decided we would start that process early and get her used to the right words and what she can ask for and get her used to it mentally, used to the idea that it's ok and imperative to be a bit different, that you have to be self-assertive, etc.  That's going to take some growing into.  College is way expensive to blow a semester just because you aren't being honest or realistic with yourself.

 

Carol Reynolds (of Discovering Music, awesome program and awesome lady!) said that colleges are improving their student services, making them more hip.  Apparently at SMU they did a $$$$  renovation and put in leather couches, etc., so it's the hip place to be!  

 

 

Dd didn't finish a test recently and later the professor came up to her and said, "Aren't you entitled to extra time? Next time, why don't you take the test and finish it at disability services?" Up until that point she didn't realize she would ever need the extra time so didn't make arrangements. I am thankful she's at a small college where the profs know and care about her and want her to be successful.

 

Besides CAPD, dd doesn't have a label. But np testing showed a significant speed issue caused by dyspraxia that isn't severe enough to "technically" fit the criteria for a label. Thankfully, there was enough evidence of a problem that the np noted it in the report with all the test results and recommended the accommodation of extra time. The CAPD may have entitled her to that already, but it was very helpful for us to see the whole picture and to have the extra documentation just case.

 

Dd's disability place is hip, too. The entrance looks like an art gallery. :)

[Soror]

Yay! I'm sure from previous threads that you have a 2E on your hands. That word retrieval issue can be a sign of a stealth dyslexic and is one of ds's biggest issues too. I'm excited to hear what you find out.

Dyslexia was my earliest suspicion of ds but of course that is perhaps because it is what I knew. He did hit nearly all the markers when he was younger and many now as well. His writing has always been his biggest weakness, the physical act, he has it in his head but getting it out. Goodness. Last year dh was home one day and he was not happy to see ds' writing and thought I was letting him slack and I had to have a little conference w/ him to discuss just how hard we work on writing and how much he has improved. I started him on cursive again this year(after failing at it last year) and it is going very well. I'm hoping it helps w/ the spacing and reversals- although reversals are not terribly common these days- he reverses more in math than in writing. He still throws in some rogue capital letters.

 

It is so odd that he picks up so many things so easily but I can go over with him so many times about spacing and formation and if I stop watching he seems to revert right back to his old ways. It trips me up though w/ dyslexia as he does ok w/ spelling. He can remember what words look like and is on grade level. He does forget simple words though, like he cannot remember what words have a w and what has a wh. We are doing LoE now and he has done well remembering the rules.

 

Oh, and I have one thing I don't understand last week I asked him to spell juice, he kept spelling it guice, over and over again. He was getting quite ticked off that he was spelling it right and adament that I was wrong. Finally I convinced him to write it down as I was pretty certain he knew how to spell it. When he wrote it down he wrote juice and was sure that is what he said. I went over it with him and told him what he was doing and got him to spell it correctly but when I had dh ask him that night he did the same thing. Now he can spell it right but he has to slow down to think about it. He does that to some degree w/ other words at times- he seems to think one thing and say another but not usually to that degree.

[Tiramisu]

Some of the verbal stuff you're describing sounds a lot like dd#2, a type of stuttering, saying the wrong word, etc. So if you ever get a good "name" for that, please let me know. She also has a lot of difficulty with writing, physically, and has memory issues with math (fact trouble popping up again now that we're doing algebra and not reviewing basic facts everyday). I've wondered if this isn't just a different manifestation of the same basic problem that my oldest has.

 

FWIW, I think one thing and say something else a lot, but for me it didn't happen until I had a few kids. Lack of sleep makes it worse. I think it comes down too many demands causing a break down in an area of inherent weakness.

[PeterPan]

nt

[FairProspects]

Yup, ds does virtually all of those things too is above grade level in reading/spelling/grammar/Latin and is still dxd dyslexic. Ds is fabulous at visual processing and that really helps him in spelling. He was in the highest reading group in public K and I think it would be hard to point him out now as dyslexic other than the slow processing and reading speeds, but it is mostly the 2E compensating and partly the heavy duty OG work we've done. He is still nowhere near where he would be expected to be performing without the dyslexia though and is very much dyslexic.

[Tiramisu]

Misu, I'm so excited to hear how well your dd is doing and that the profs are proactive in making sure she takes advantage of things to help her!  Hurray for small class sizes and personal attention!   :)

 

I'll hijack for a moment to let everyone know dd is doing very well. It's such a relief to me, I can't tell you. She's working soooo hard but getting great support along the way from her professors and friends.  

 

I'm continually impressed with how her school does things. Shortly after mid-terms, when I could tell she was completely exhausted and drawing on all her intellectual and physical resources, I got an email from the dean of students that went out to all parents of first year students. She told us this is a time when our kids are facing challenges as never before--our star writers getting their first C's on papers, our extroverts struggling with public speaking, etc., etc. So she asked us to reach out to our kids and encourage them at this time, reminding us how important our support is for their success. As a hsing mom, this really pleased me. 

[PeterPan]

nt

[Soror]

Ok, I got an email back anyone want to help me out here? This guy was recommended on Hoagies site, the only info I could find online was a gifted school recommending him for testing and also a school recommending him for LD testing.

 

This is the info he sent minus locale info for some privacy. I'm not sure what testing I would even need to be honest.

 

I have nearly thirty years of psychological assessment with children ranging in age from three to eighteen. I have been in private practice serving gifted students since 1994 and have presented to various school districts and gifted advocacy groups on gifted assessment.

 

An assessment may simply consist of a single test, either in the area of achievement or intelligence, where a summary of scores is provided. The most comprehensive type of assessment might include multiple tests in the areas of achievement, intelligence, adaptive behavior visual motor integration and development both measured and reported. In a comprehensive assessment, clinical observations at the time of testing as well as observed or reported behaviors from parents and school personnel are carefully interpreted and related to assessment scores. Clinical observations are as important as and potentially more significant than the actual test scores.

 

Most commonly a gifted assessment consists of an achievement and intelligence test with the tests scores provided in summary form. Notable clinical observations are discussed at the time of the assessment but not included in the written summary. This type of discussion usually does not occur when school personnel conduct the assessment. A comprehensive report is not usually required by school districts for entrance into gifted programs but may be useful when a child is twice exceptional (i.e. gifted and learning disabled, autistic, ADHD, OCD, anxious or depressed). Occasionally a simple assessment may evolve into a more comprehensive evaluation when a child shows evidence of a disability or characteristics of exceptional giftedness. A comprehensive report is useful when attempting to convince school personnel of a gifted child’s unique needs or to modify instruction.

 

There are a multitude of tests to select from in either achievement or intelligence. Many times the choice is limited by the school district’s gifted identification criteria. The Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scales of Intelligence 3rd Edition (WPPSI-III), the Wechsler Intelligence Scales for Children 4th Edition (WISC-IV), or Stanford Binet 5th Ed. (SB-5) are the most common choices. The Stanford Binet L-M is sometimes used for the identification of highly or exceptionally gifted students. The specific test chosen should be based on the specific purpose of testing and the child’s reported strengths and weakness. When previous assessment has occurred, it should be reviewed and used to identify the most appropriate test for the identified purpose.

 

It is imperative to identify the main purpose of the assessment (gifted identification, exceptional identification, strengths/weakness, or underlying concerns) and to select the most appropriate test(s) for the specified purpose.

Testing young bright students (less than 7 years sometimes 8 years) tends to produce higher test results on both achievement and intelligence tests but at the same time offer the least degree of stability. This is due in part to the asynchronous or uneven development of young children over relatively short periods of time (3-4 mos.). Almost by default, younger children have the advantage of higher test ceilings, which allow more opportunity to demonstrate their ability. Some above average children from enriched home environments may mimic the accelerated development of a gifted child and so tend to look brighter at younger ages until the effect of early enrichment declines.

On the other side of the coin a lack of test sophistication, immaturity or lack of interest to perform in a testing environment with for all intent and purposes a stranger, may depress the measure of intelligence in some young children. Results may also be depressed when a dysfunction such as ADHD, a general processing deficit, a learning disability, anxiety, Asperger’s syndrome or autism, etc. is present. Usually gifted assessment is prompted by program identification or when a child is exhibiting highly/exceptionally gifted characteristics or when dysfunctional behavior is observed.

 

The fee for a psychological evaluation is dependent upon the instrument(s) that is administered, as well as the type of report that is provided. The Stanford Binet Intelligence Scale 5th Ed. (SB-5) or Wechsler Intelligence Scales for Children (WISC-IV) or Wechsler Primary & Preschool Scales of Intelligence 3rd Ed. (WPPSI-III) with a summary report is $250.00. The fee for achievement testing is similar. A Wechsler Abbreviated Scale of Intelligence (WASI) is $200.00. These fees include 30 minutes of discussion time following the assessment and a summary report. If the discussion exceeds 30 minutes there is an additional fee of $25.00 per quarter hour.

 

Phone consultation is $100.00 per hour, this is sometimes helpful to determine the need for testing, the kind of test, or to ask questions about a previous assessment. A Meet & Greet is sometimes helpful when a child seems shy and needs to warm-up to the examiner and the office environment. A Meet & Greet may also provide some informal insights regarding relative strengths and weaknesses. The fee is $125.00 for the first hour and $25.00 per each additional fifteen minutes.

 

A comprehensive interpretive report providing strengths, weaknesses, clinical observations, and recommendations ranges from $500 to $1,000. In most cases, a summary report is all that is required by most school districts for gifted identification or placement.

[FairProspects]

You need the testing in the last paragraph - the one quoted at $500-$1000. You need the WISC IV or Stanford-Binet plus achievement testing - usually the WIAT III or the Woodcock-Johnson. You need the comparison of the two plus some other possible subtests to get your 2E determination. In your situation you need to see the whole picture of strengths and weaknesses.

[PeterPan]

Remind us what all you're seeing in symptoms?  A psych who does a lot of SN will do way more than just a WISC.  I'd keep looking.  There are a lot of psychs on the planet and this is not the only one.  I don't get why he's only talking gifted/IQ testing if you wrote him saying you suspect adhd, dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. etc.  I would use some stronger terms and ask him upfront what tests he does.  How many hours does he spend testing?  That's probably why his fees are so low, because he's typically doing gifted kids and doesn't need to do much.  My dd had 6 hours of testing.  That yields a whole lot more info than 2, which is sort of obvious after you think about it.  Their fees are by the hour, so if he normally bills $100 an hour (or $150, whatever, he can tell you), then the overall rate he quotes you is a reflection of how long he anticipates spending TOTAL on you in time.  That's your intake talk, the testing, the time he spends looking at the tea and brewing it (hmm, wrong board for that analogy?  lol), doing the write-up AND talking with you.  I paid $1500, and that got us 2 hours intake, 6 hours testing, a 6 page write-up, and multiple hours of parent time with him afterward to go over everything.  I think our psych bills at $100-150 an hour.  So you can see if a psych bills $500 for a session, he's either stinkin' fast, or he's spending a lot less time.  Whether that matters to you really depends on your situation.

 

There's way more than WISC, WIAT, and comparing that they can do for you.  Find some more names.  Use some stronger terms like dyslexia, dysgraphia and ask them what tests they'd probably run.  Ask them how long their reports are.  Ask them if they've worked with homeschoolers, how comfortable they are with that, and if they make curriculum recommendations.  You don't even care if they make curriculum recommendations (or at least I didn't), but you want them to show their real attitude and familiarity with what you're doing.  

[Soror]

I'm too short on time to list everything now irt my assessment of ds (will do in the am as it is bedtime here)but I wasn't super specific in my email as I wasn't for sure what was appropriate. I just wrote that I suspected some difficulties and strengths and was looking for testing to ascertain specifics and also as to what kind of accommodations might be needed and beneficial. Here is his email:

I have attached some background information on myself as well as on gifted assessment. I have both a background with special education as well as gifted and specialize in gifted and twice exceptional children. Most of my clients are enrolled in public or private schools but occasionally I work with home-schooled children. On occasion I have recommended homeschooling as a needed alternative for some children in formal traditional school. My real expertise is in using clinical observations along with test results to identify a child's strengths and weaknesses. I hope you find this information and the attachment helpful. If you would like to set an appointment or if you have any questions please feel free to use any of the phone numbers below. Thanks again!

I thought as well that the first part of what he wrote about wouldn't be very helpful at all for me but I guess that evidently many see him for entrance into a gifted school in the city. I'll work on sending out another email in the am to try to find out more specifics on what kind of tests he does.

[SandyKC]

His last line about a summary report would be of concern and I would want to inquire further about that ("a summary report is all that is required by most school districts for gifted identification or placement"). Summary reports are seldom highly useful because they just give the general jist of things and not the specifics.  Since you are homeschooling, you will want a detailed, comprehensive evaluation report complete with suggestions for the best methods for teaching your child.  I'd be inclined to ask him if he can provide a comprehensive report of that nature.

 

Also, he seems much more focused on screening for public schools' purposes.  It is evident, you are not his typical customer, so my questions would now center around whether he might be able to meet your specific needs.

 

That said, might I suggest going to http://copaa.org/ , looking at the lower left menu and using their "Find" tool to find an attorney or advocate in your area.  Then email or call them and ask them if they can give you the names of two or three "highly qualified evaluators to evaluate your child for learning disabilities".  The lawyers and advocates require comprehensive evaluations for their cases to prove/convince the schools to provide appropriate services (people don't go to advocates or attorneys unless the schools are NOT providing the right services, so the proper services must be identified).  Then, when you get the names of the evaluators they suggest, send those evaluators the same or a similar query as to the one you sent to this evaluator.

 

With my experience, and reading what this guy wrote, my guess is he is more of an evaluator paid for and contracted by schools, which in my experience is more likely to mean the testing and reporting will be shallow in nature. You want comprehensive testing and reporting because you need to know all of the pieces of the puzzle in order to appropriately address them. 

 

As a contrast, our neuropsych STARTS with two days of testing.. Aptitude (IQ), Achievement, and basic screenings for a myriad of different possible LD issues are the starting point.  Deeper evaluation comes in with observation during testing and the scoring of the initial measures to see what else needs to be explored.    The guy you emailed sounds like he basically just does an IQ test to see if the kid is gifted, and then will add on if you want him to.. But that's not the best approach when you're trying to narrow in on specific LD issues, IMHO.  So, based upon my experiences and the varied eval reports I've read.. I'm not overly impressed with what I read in his response.. I get the impression he's a school-based thinker - yes or no gifted, yes or no LD evaluator without much evaluative depth.. It's just my opinion based on his response, so take it or leave it, but those are my thoughts for what they're worth. ;-)

Ok, I got an email back anyone want to help me out here? This guy was recommended on Hoagies site, the only info I could find online was a gifted school recommending him for testing and also a school recommending him for LD testing.

This is the info he sent minus locale info for some privacy. I'm not sure what testing I would even need to be honest.
 

 

[Soror]

Alright, I did some searching this am and found some recommendations on one of the hs support sites for the city. One of the description specifically says:

Psychologist specializing in intelligence and disability testing and general psychologist specializing in the giftedness and disabilities. She can also be contacted through the Gifted Resource Council.

I sent out 2 different emails this am to different hs groups looking for info irt testing, one group specifically mentions providing support for special need children. I will send out a follow-up to the one psych asking if he has more info specifically about the disability testing as he seemed to only discuss gifted testing and also to ask how much detail he gives in his reports, specifically info for me as a teacher on the best methods and types of curriculum to use and accommodations that are needed and beneficial.

 

 

Now to my son, it is hard to remember everything at one time as often but I'll try and work on keeping it concise:

 

Biggest issues- memory and writing: Age 9y3m

writing-

-didn't/couldn't hold a pencil until after 5.5-6yo

-taught w/ HWoT but still seems to perpetually forget how to correctly form letters, I'm constantly reteaching and even then often have to keep a close eye

-still has issues w/ proper spacing(I did work a very long time on having him use his pinky as a guide so now his typical mistakes are too close whereas last year they were a mix of too far and too close), rogue capital letters(although he knows correct punctuation), and some reversals- reversals are fairly rare in letters these days but still daily in Math(especially 6s)

-has an especially hard time keeping the letters on the line- I beleive at least partially due to the way he forms them

-writing is often not very legible, dh says that others often couldn't interpret what he has wrote, especially in math

-the severity varies greatly sometimes he does fairly well and is even reasonably legible

-fatigues w/ writing quickly and is very reluctant

 

memory

-has great difficulty w/ rote memorization, now working w/ my daughter(who appears perfectly avg) that some things we worked on for months- months of the year for ex she learned less than a week. He didn't count to 10 or say the ABCs until past 7- I'm thinking he didn't actually learn the alphabet until last year at 8 or so

- cannot remember names well- as mentioned previously it took him until around 8 or so to remember his 2 cousins names, we see them several times of year and their names are mentioned often, he'd always ask which one is the boy one? Same w/ dh's coworkers. He frequently totally messes up people's names but w/ work now can get it right.

-has difficulty keeping straight multiple steps in math problems he tries to work through things in his head, which I know he knows how to do but he forgets things part way through the problem he then keeps going back through the problem perpetually as it seems he just cannot hold it all up there

-still makes simple addition mistakes quite frequently, does the same w/ multiplication in bigger problems but is more likely to make an addition mistake

- he remembers how to do something but not what its called- ie he still sometimes ask me when talking about perimeter and area now which one is that, same w/ division

-has difficulty in getting out what is in his head and at times(not frequently) stutters some when trying to tell a story- sometimes he cannot seem to remember and then sometimes it seems he cannot get everything out quickly enough

 

Reading-

STarted to learn at 6, worked our way through I See Sam Readers and then Blend Phonics until he was around 2nd grade level, he was about 7.5 at that point. WE did some work w/ Websters then until he was about 8 and it was summer break and then his reading started to take off.

- he reads(very quickly) and comprehends books now around 6th grade level

-he seems to have a very good memory for what he reads and I read to him as well

-not very good at reading aloud, frequently jumbles things up, I suspect that when reading to himself that he still jumbles things at times but likely fills it in w/ context and what he does know (I'm taking him through LoE now to help to fill in any gaps that might be there)

Spelling

-can generally spell on grade level but forgets simple words like the w/wh words, he cannot seem to remember those for anything

-sometimes thinks he says one thing when he actually says something else- like I mentioned earlier- spelling juice- guice repeatedly and convinced that he spelled it with a j. Othertimes I spell back a word he misses and he is adamant that is how he spelled it- I think he has trouble sometimes w/ all that he sees in his head getting out his mouth

 

 

Misc.

-didn't learn left from right until at least 7, I think that was actually more like 8yos

-when he was smaller especially he was on the side of not seeming to hardly feel pain- although these days his response to pain seems much more appropriate

- seems to grasp more difficult concepts quite easily, it is not a rare occurrence for him to just solve a more complex problem to just know it w/out instruction or explanation and then he will have a hard time explaining to me how his brain worked- which is the case w/ most everything!

[Tiramisu]

soror, you mentioned the pain thing. I'm curious if there are any more obvious sensory issues. Aversion to or seeking certain type of stimulation.

[Tiramisu]

Misu, that's definitely very special!  How many students are at that college?  Are they just very committed to their students?

 

There are about 2,000 students. They are very service oriented. They want to develop that in their students and the profs seem to model it. :)

[Soror]

I cannot think of anything else sensory. As w/ pain it seems to be more on the side that nothing bothers him. Thankfully he is laid-back(well since changing his diet) as w/ disciplining him nothing seems to phase him. He has always been very active. As a baby he would cry unless we were walking and bouncing and humming but these days although he likes to be rowdy he does frequently complain about distractions during school, I'm not sure that is outside normal- w/ 4 kids I find it terribly distracting at times. I do have difficulty at times keeping him focused, like he starts working on something and then he gets sidetracked by finding the perfect pencil and then he has to clean the table as it is bothering him and then it is picking up the floor. When doing problems I often find myself having these long discussions entirely unrelated to what we are working on as it seems his mind is always going but not necessarily about what we are learning.

[Soror]

Hmph, well I guess I'm obvlious and wrong. Ds still doesn't know the alphabet. With a lot of cajoling I got him to try, he kept saying that he would do horrible and he didn't know it he can tell me the start and the end and a small amount in the middle but skipped a fair amount and mixed up parts as well.

 

On math he really struggled w/ place value but it seemed we did ok after that now we've recently went over millions and it seems that he is struggling to keep track of that he keeps saying millions is right past 1000, we just keep reviewing it.

 

eta

He breezes through a fair amount of math though and it is not too rare for him to complain about things are too easy. It seems either lessons are too easy and I don't even have to teach them or they take us 2-3x longer than normal. Hmm, actually that is how it is with most things, like spelling as well. He seems to either know it on his own without any teaching or I have an extreme difficulty teaching him. MCT seems to be reaching him well though although a lot seems to be rather intuitive to him he seems to speak his language.

[SandyKC]

Sounding more like my DS with every post!   The needing to find a pencil, cleaning the table, picking up something could be a couple of different things: ADHD or avoidance of a task that is difficult.  With my boys, our neuropsych explained that ADHD can be primary or secondary-- In primary ADHD it is the CAUSE of learning difficulties, but in secondary it is cause BY learning difficulties--as in avoidance, inability to figure out the lesson so the daydreaming starts, etc.  Could be either, but only a qualified neuropsychologist can determine the difference.  On the parental end, if it's primary then the ADHD has to be treated, if it is secondary then the ADHD will disappear as your son overcomes his LD issues.  I had both in my boys.. and indeed, for my son who has the significant LDs, his was secondary ADHD and it DID go away as he mastered the basic academic skills.

 

I'm really thinking your DS has memory-recall issues and possible executive function problems.  The writing can easily be grapho-motor integration and occupational therapy may be needed to help with the handwriting.  That said, with one of my sons, we worked on it until 7th grade until our neuropsych basically told us to forget it and move on to keyboarding.  DS' printing is decipherable by others--not pretty--but it will get the job done for forms and applications.  Pretty handwriting isn't necessary, but moderately legible writing is.  We ended up going with Dragon Naturally Speaking for dictating essays and my DS' writing improved by leaps and bounds once he didn't have to engage in the physical act of writing. 

 

Also, you might check with the Learning Abled Kids' group on Yahoo.. It is specifically for homeschooling kids with learning disabilties or twice exceptional abilities.  With over 1600 members, there might be someone in your area that can give you thumbs up or thumbs down on evaluators.

[SandyKC]

With not knowing the alphabet--that could very well be the rapid naming mentioned earlier.  Given he can read well, I'm thinking it is less likely to be a phonemic awareness issue, and therefore not true dyslexia.  Rapid naming would be a function of memory and recall where a brain training program focusing on processing speed and memory might be of help.

[Soror]

Sandy thanks for the links I will check it out. I just signed up for the yahoo group so I'll look around there today.

 

One other thing ds is a bit clumsy and things like learning to catch a ball seemed to take a bit longer than usual. I don't think the clumsiness is too bad but dh has made comments at times. My mom always called me grace though as a bit of a joke and I'm very sensitive to that criticism.