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Mystery Girl Found in Greece


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#1 BigMamaBird

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:00 PM

I caught the tail end of this story on the news today and wondered if any of you have heard any more about it.

 

http://www.csmonitor...fy-mystery-girl

 

There has been a lot of talk in my area about sex trafficing so that part of the story stood out to me.  Such a little darling!  I hope they can find out where she came from.



#2 Kathryn

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:04 PM

I saw that last week. I hope they find her parents.

#3 Scarlett

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:06 PM

I saw it. So interesting. My guess would be she was illegally adopted.

#4 Goldilocks

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:20 PM

I heard about this this morning because there is a couple in my city who are petitioning to find out if it is their daughter.  Their blonde haired, blue eyed baby has been missing since 2011.  The age of the girl would be wrong, though.  The girl in Greece is four, but the missing baby would not yet be 3. 

 

The news reported that the girl matches the description of 8 kidnapped girls, 4 who are from the United States.



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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:27 PM

I heard about this this morning because there is a couple in my city who are petitioning to find out if it is their daughter.  Their blonde haired, blue eyed baby has been missing since 2011.  The age of the girl would be wrong, though.  The girl in Greece is four, but the missing baby would not yet be 3. 

 

The news reported that the girl matches the description of 8 kidnapped girls, 4 who are from the United States.

They are only assuming she's 4. How could they know for sure? 



#6 Lisbeth

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:33 PM

They did some kind of bio testing to get her age.



#7 redsquirrel

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:34 PM

They are only assuming she's 4. How could they know for sure? 

 

If she gets a good medical exam by people who know what they are doing they can get pretty darn close. It involves also doing a dental exam and possibly a dental x-ray. A forensic dentist can tell a lot about a person, including age, by examining teeth and xrays.

 

My heart is going out to all those who are missing a child tonight, and that poor baby girl. There is a good chance she isn't actually missing, but was sold etc by parents.

 

ETA: now it is thought that she is 5 or 6. And there are no allegations that the people who had her were mistreating her in any way. She was dirty and living in poverty, but so are all the other kids in her community. The people who had her might be telling the truth, that this child's mother didn't want her so they took her in. If they are Roma, then it's not like they could or would go to the authorities for a legal adoption.



#8 NicAnn

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

We are all hoping its Baby Lisa. But it's likely the people were telling the truth, and she's just an orphan.

#9 BigMamaBird

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:17 PM

My heart just goes out to all the families of missing little girls this age.  I can't begin to imagine having the faintest glimmer of hope that she might be your baby but knowing deep down that she probably isn't.  



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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

It seems like her hair was dyed at some point into a darker color. If she was an orphan or given away by her parents, why would the Roma couple be dying her hair? 



#11 TXBeth

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:46 PM

To avoid a situation like this?

#12 TXBeth

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:47 PM

It doesn't look good for the couple, though, that they apparently have pretended to be the parents of several other children who do not actually belong to them. If it were a one-time thing, I would be more inclined to believe their story.

I worry this case will encourage the already prevalent anti-Roma sentiment in Greece.

#13 Scarlett

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:04 PM

I have to say they look like total losers. :(.

#14 Lisbeth

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:02 PM

Dublin police found another child who they suspect was abducted or trafficked to/by the "Roma". 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-24626422



#15 Orthodox6

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:16 PM

The woman allegedly gave birth to singles six times in ten months, when birth registrations are examined.

#16 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

The woman allegedly gave birth to singles six times in ten months, when birth registrations are examined.

Wow, I bet she could go in the Guinness Book of World Records!   :laugh:



#17 kiwik

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:54 AM

Sounds like a very odd birth registration system. I thought I heard the child had had some problems with her eyes. Maybe she was intended for adoption/sale but wasn't wanted so they kept her. There are plenty of unwanted babies in some of the countries they travel through - what they are saying could be TRUE even if the documents obviously aren't.

#18 Trish

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:18 AM

We are all hoping its Baby Lisa. But it's likely the people were telling the truth, and she's just an orphan.


Did you follow that case closely? I have no expectation of a match there.

#19 DawnM

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:18 AM

What happened to the other 5 children??????



#20 NicAnn

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:19 AM

I no longer do either. Last I had read, the parents were requesting a DNA sample or something. But the girl is mich to old to be here. And I've always assumed that she was sold or given away.

#21 Jean in Newcastle

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:24 AM

What happened to the other 5 children??????

I thought that the other 5 children didn't exist - as in the births were reported for the benefits but there really was no baby to begin with.  



#22 swellmomma

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:38 AM

I thought that the other 5 children didn't exist - as in the births were reported for the benefits but there really was no baby to begin with.  

 

From the last bit of that article where it said 10 of the 14 kids total they have registered have not been accounted for and that police will be unravelling a tale that it not just about that little girl I think they were involved in trafficking.  May be illegal adoptions, may be sex trafficing, who knows but something is very off and it is not just the matter of a generous couple taking in an unwanted infant kwim. I suspect that each of those 5 existed but she did not give birth to them, it is her way of getting paid for being the 3rd party in these adoptions, being able to claim welfare benefits by registering the child that was in her "care" and claiming it as her own.  A one time deal I might believe their story but I believe this is a case that we will be hearing more about as they follow leads towards the where abouts of the 10 unaccounted for children etc. And if this couple was trafficing infants while living in this gyspy camp than others knew about it and perhaps also were doing the same.  This could blow up to be rather huge imo



#23 unsinkable

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:47 PM

I really can't imagine LE in the US taking a child because the child has the opposite coloring of the parents. There'd be protests in the street.

As for her being Lisa Irwin: I think Lisa died ( either naturally, accidentally or murdered) and her drunk mom covered it up. Poor little baby.

#24 Trish

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:03 PM

I no longer do either. Last I had read, the parents were requesting a DNA sample or something. But the girl is mich to old to be here. And I've always assumed that she was sold or given away.


I hardly think the parents would sell her!

I think it was an accidental death.

#25 Free Range Mom

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:30 PM

This story struck close to home for our family.  This little girl has an uncanny resemblance to one of my girls.  We had an experience that involved an attempted kidnapping and the Rom with our other white-blonde daughter while we were traveling in Croatia.  Every time that we see the girl's picture on the news, it's a little jolt of "that could have been V!"  To think that some other parent is missing their little girl is heart-breaking.



#26 NicAnn

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:38 PM

I hardly think the parents would sell her!

I think it was an accidental death.


Probably. Last year a profiler came out and said that her case was very similar to other cases where the child was trafficked or "sold". I really don't know either way, and none of the possibilities are good ones. Hopefully one day we will know the truth.

#27 Roadrunner

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:50 PM

I hope they find out who she is.
Did anybody see the news on CNN about sex trafficing movie? It makes me sick that so many girls are suffering around us from forced slavery.
http://thecnnfreedom...he-traffickers/
I bet a lot of kidnapped girls wind up just like this.

#28 Scarlett

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:06 PM

I really can't imagine LE in the US taking a child because the child has the opposite coloring of the parents. There'd be protests in the street.
.

 

 

I don't think that was the only reason she was taken.  They had drugs, guns, etc and the kids were not  being properly cared for.  Once they got her into custody, they couldn't find proof of her being their birth child so they did dna testing on her.



#29 NicAnn

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:39 PM

The alert bulletins are saying she was born in 2009. And look at the picture from the bulletin. She *does* look similar to Lisa. I know, I know, it can't possibly be her...I just want it to be so much! She's from just down the street from where DH and I had our first place.

http://www.dailymail...ma-gypsies.html

#30 NicAnn

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:41 PM

I don't think that was the only reason she was taken. They had drugs, guns, etc and the kids were not being properly cared for. Once they got her into custody, they couldn't find proof of her being their birth child so they did dna testing on her.


Actually, I think that was the only reason she was taken. Another girl in Ireland was taken for the same reason, but has since been returned after being held for two days because she did actually belong to the other parent. The article I read said the worker from the charity knew something was off because Maria looked different.

#31 Orthodox6

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:08 PM

Interestingly, the child in Greece has not asked for any person. 

 

Just as interestingly, the children's service deliberately did not bring in an interpreter who speaks the Roma language.  The reason (and I forget how it was presented) seemed very weak.  The child speaks that language, so would respond best in the language that she knows.  If she really is five or six years old, as is speculation based upon a dental exam, she could choose to share plenty of information.



#32 KungFuPanda

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:20 PM

I read that the Greek couple bought the girl from her (Bulgarian?) parents. Another man was offered the girl first and declined. It seems they capitalized on her 'exotic' looks by making her beg and treating her as a 'dancing bear' to dance for tourists.

I did not fact check the above information. I just read it on some British site, so I don't know how true it is.

#33 Orthodox6

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:23 PM

I read that the Greek couple bought the girl from her (Bulgarian?) parents. Another man was offered the girl first and declined. It seems they capitalized on her 'exotic' looks by making her beg and treating her as a 'dancing bear' to dance for tourists.

I did not fact check the above information. I just read it on some British site, so I don't know how true it is.

 

Perhaps you are remembering an article from the BBC news?  Some other members of the Roma community provided videotapes of the little girl dancing, with claims that she was participating in normal Greek festivities.  Other viewers of the tapes countered that the "dancing" gave the appearance of a "trained performance", and not the free-spirited enjoyment of a little Greek girl at a festival. 



#34 Murphy101

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:46 PM

Actually, I think that was the only reason she was taken. Another girl in Ireland was taken for the same reason, but has since been returned after being held for two days because she did actually belong to the other parent. The article I read said the worker from the charity knew something was off because Maria looked different.


I was listening to BBC yesterday interview with a Greek corespondent and he said the police came in bc of accusations of Roma's dealing illegal drugs and when the police arrived they specificly noted the blonde haired blued girl was suspicious bc she didn't look Roma. And that was why they took her in.

Apparently there is a LOT of Roma hate going on and many people in the Roma community are furious and screaming about Roma hate, which sadly might be a very valid claim. And sadder still doesn't mean the girl wasn't being trafficked.

It's going to be really difficult for a Roma couple to get something like a just trial on this. Legally and in the media.

#35 okbud

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:10 PM

She belonged to the parents she was taken from.

 

 

///Absolutely horrifying///



#36 Murphy101

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:13 PM

I agree. How terribly awful to think someone can have their child taken from them just because they are a disliked minority and their kid doesn't look enough like them. It's nothing new, but it's just awful all the same.

#37 Moxie

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

Where can I learn more about the history of the Roma people?

#38 Murphy101

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:16 PM

Wow read the link and apparently in another Irish county another child, a 2 year old boy was returned to his Roma family after being removed on the same grounds? What the heck? :(

#39 NicAnn

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:17 PM

She belonged to the parents she was taken from.

That's the other girl, not the Maria from this thread. Maria is still unknown. :(

///Absolutely horrifying///



#40 Murphy101

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

Where can I learn more about the history of the Roma people?


It's really difficult to find unbiased/not racist info.

But here is a start.

http://channel.natio...-romani-people/

#41 Murphy101

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:26 PM

http://www.opensocie...nimated-history

It really is fascinating, confusing and really not well understood.

#42 Orthodox6

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:33 PM

Although I have not read this book, I'll place a link and recommend it: 

http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/1902806190

 

Here is an old (2003) interview with the author:

http://www.utexas.ed...003/romani.html

 

Dr. Hancock was one of my professors in the graduate department of linguistics at UT-Austin.  He was a tremendously interesting person and a great guy.  I wish that I had followed up on some of the academic publishing opportunities he tried to interest me in. 



#43 Amira

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:41 PM

I'll second the recommendation of _We Are the Romani People_. I also liked _Bury Me Standing_.

#44 Sisyphus

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

Ds and I were talking about this tonight in the car after hearing a blurb on NPR. He gasped and said "gypsy's really do steal children?!" because (I am embarrassed to say) we have joked he is our gypsy baby as he looks nothing like us and possesses all sorts of odd skills none of the rest of us do (like being ambidextrous, completely). So we talked about the Roma, and I used an example from one of our literature readings the other day- they used the word "gypped". And what it meant (we didn't read that, I saw it in the book was remembered this word being common in my youth) and the discrimination against the Roma. It's a tough issue, fact and age old prejudice (baby stealing!) get all swirled together. Just look at me and my joking Ds was switched by gypsies...why did I think that was ok?

I hope the truth can be found.

#45 unsinkable

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:54 PM

She belonged to the parents she was taken from.


///Absolutely horrifying///


Just to be clarify...this is the Irish Roma girl who is the biological daughter, just like her parents said.

The Greek Roma girl is not biologically related to the man and woman who had her. The Greek Roma girl is still unknown.

#46 BigMamaBird

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:56 AM

Ds and I were talking about this tonight in the car after hearing a blurb on NPR. He gasped and said "gypsy's really do steal children?!" because (I am embarrassed to say) we have joked he is our gypsy baby as he looks nothing like us and possesses all sorts of odd skills none of the rest of us do (like being ambidextrous, completely). So we talked about the Roma, and I used an example from one of our literature readings the other day- they used the word "gypped". And what it meant (we didn't read that, I saw it in the book was remembered this word being common in my youth) and the discrimination against the Roma. It's a tough issue, fact and age old prejudice (baby stealing!) get all swirled together. Just look at me and my joking Ds was switched by gypsies...why did I think that was ok?

I hope the truth can be found.

 

I'm a bit embarrassed to say that sometimes Dh and I joke about selling our kids to gypsies when they're being rowdy.  It had always been a joke before, but the reality of people actually selling babies has been horrifically sobering.  I don't think there will be anymore "selling the kids" jokes around here.  This story is just too sad.



#47 MedicMom

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:36 AM

I've been following this story...my grandmother was Roma/Czech and very stereotypical in looks and features.
She gave birth to a blond haired, blue eyed son, my dad.
Her other biological child was dark, and they both had a whole bunch of dark eyed, dark haired children. I married a brown eyed, brown haired man, and together we somehow produced a very blond little boy with big blue eyes with light skin.

Suffice to say I am glad I am not in a Roma village or camp right now.

#48 school17777

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:11 AM

Interestingly, the child in Greece has not asked for any person. 

 

Just as interestingly, the children's service deliberately did not bring in an interpreter who speaks the Roma language.  The reason (and I forget how it was presented) seemed very weak.  The child speaks that language, so would respond best in the language that she knows.  If she really is five or six years old, as is speculation based upon a dental exam, she could choose to share plenty of information.

 

 

My youngest is that age and I don't think she would even speak at all to people she never meet before, She barely speaks to people she sees on a regular basis outside of the family.  And, if she did "talk", she might only answer yes or no questions by shaking or nodding her head.  So, it does not seem strange to me that a child that age would not share much.



#49 Murphy101

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:49 AM

My youngest is that age and I don't think she would even speak at all to people she never meet before, She barely speaks to people she sees on a regular basis outside of the family. And, if she did "talk", she might only answer yes or no questions by shaking or nodding her head. So, it does not seem strange to me that a child that age would not share much.

At first, maybe. But usually they are least going to asks for mama, daddy, or cry or something. But to not even bother to bring in someone who could translate? Can you imagine how ridiculous that argument would be if a child was deaf or an illegal Mexican in the USA? Of course they would be given a ASL or Spanish speaking interpreter ASAP.

Sure he child might be terrified and traumatized and not be willing to say much, but to not even have someone who speaks her language approach her to try? That's just nuts and hard to believe isn't based on racism.

#50 school17777

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:53 AM

At first, maybe. But usually they are least going to asks for mama, daddy, or cry or something. But to not even bother to bring in someone who could translate? Can you imagine how ridiculous that argument would be if a child was deaf or an illegal Mexican in the USA? Of course they would be given a ASL or Spanish speaking interpreter ASAP.

Sure he child might be terrified and traumatized and not be willing to say much, but to not even have someone who speaks her language approach her to try? That's just nuts and hard to believe isn't based on racism.

 

 

I do agree that it's ridiculous to not bring in someone who speaks the same language.