Critique my scope and sequence for writing instruction 2nd-8th grades

[Chrysalis Academy]

In my ongoing quest for either the perfect writing curriculum or the huevos to pull off writing instruction without a curriculum . . .  I decided to take a step back and think about what my goals are for what the student should be able to do at each "grade level".  You will notice my grade levels start at 2nd and end at 8th - I have a 2nd and a 6th grader, so this is as far as I feel able to think at this point! But I would love to have a discussion about what you guys think is reasonable at different ages/grades/levels of development, whether this scope looks complete for 2nd-8th grade writing instruction, and whether the sequence makes sense:

 

 

2^nd grade/7 years

Goals:

·         Mechanics of writing: basic spelling & grammar

·         Oral Narration & Summaries

·         Writing 1-3 sentences about topics & books

 

 

3^rd grade/8 years

Goals

·         Written narrations & summaries

·         Writing single paragraphs about topics & books

 

4^th Grade/9 years

Goals:

·         Paragraphing Skills:  Topic sentences w/ supporting details, unity, developing paragraphs, order & coherence within paragraphs

·         Writing 2-3 paragraphs about topics & books

 

 

5^th Grade/10 years

Goals:

·         One-level outlines/Two level-outlines

·         Essays:  Compositions: Descriptive, Expository, Narrative (1-2 pp, up to 300-500 words?)

·         Basic literary analysis (combining summary + discussion)

 

6^th Grade/11 years

Goals:

·         Two-level outlines/Three level outlines

·         Rewriting from Outlines

·         Multi-source reports w/ citations (building up to ~1000 word report)

• Continued literary analysis: analyzing plot, setting, characters, theme, conflict, etc.

 

 

7^th Grade/12 years

Goals:

·         Developing a Thesis

·         Persuasive & Analytical Essays with an original thesis

·         Answering essay questions

• Writing about literature

 

 

8^th Grade/13 years 

Goals:

·         Persuasive & Analytical Essays with an original thesis

·         Answering Essay questions

• Writing about literature

[ShellLou]

Bump :-)

[Esse Quam Videri]

Your sequence is extremely advanced. I think you are expecting too much yearly progression. To go from writing 2-3 paragraphs in fourth to a literary analysis essay in fifth is a HUGE undertaking, for both the student and the teacher. Only an extremely gifted 5th grader would be able to write a literary analysis (and even then, it would take a ton of instruction). I think this scope would be more appropriate if it were stretched over the entire 2-12 grade period. You'd need to add a few things- literary research essay for sure- but you pretty much have it covered.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Of course, we could have very different ideas of what a literary analysis essay is :-)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well, my whole scope is influenced heavily by SWB's writing lectures, clearly, so when I put literary analysis in 5th grade, I just mean the very basic thing she describes - having a discussion of the element sof plot, conflict, theme, characterization, etc. and then having the student write a short paper where they discuss one of those elements.  So, really just the next step beyond writing a summary of a book.  She discusses having a 5th grader start this kind of writing in her lecture, and teaches it in WWS 1 & 2.  That's all I"m talking about.  My 5th grader could do this last year. 

 

I'm really just trying to capture basic, pre-high school building blocks.  On that note, when you talked about a literary research essay, do you consider that a pre-high school skill? I was thinking that was more of a high school level assignment.  As I would a full "literary analysis" in the way I think you mean it! I agree with you there.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Well, my whole scope is influenced heavily by SWB's writing lectures, clearly, so when I put literary analysis in 5th grade, I just mean the very basic thing she describes - having a discussion of the element sof plot, conflict, theme, characterization, etc. and then having the student write a short paper where they discuss one of those elements.  So, really just the next step beyond writing a summary of a book.  She discusses having a 5th grader start this kind of writing in her lecture, and teaches it in WWS 1 & 2.  That's all I"m talking about.  My 5th grader could do this last year. 

 

I'm really just trying to capture basic, pre-high school building blocks.  On that note, when you talked about a literary research essay, do you consider that a pre-high school skill? I was thinking that was more of a high school level assignment.  As I would a full "literary analysis" in the way I think you mean it! I agree with you there.

 

Ah, I see. Yes, I was thinking literary analysis essay as in a typical undergrad English assignment- definitely a high school goal. I haven't listened to SWB's writing lectures (probably should). I have heard her discuss WWS specifically but we haven't used it. So what's the length you're talking here? I think that would help to make this more clear. For your fifth grader's narrative essay, for example, is there a word count goal? And what's your working definition of "essay"?

 

If I'm understanding correctly, it seems like one year you are introducing a topic, and the next year you are polishing it? So in third grade you work with "paragraph writing," and in fourth you break that down and perfect it- topic sentences, details, etc. Is that right?

 

Also, are these just personalized goals for your own kids?

 

I appreciate this a lot. It helps me think about our own goals... I know the end result but I'm not quite sure how to get there.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, definitely working on a scope & sequence for teaching my own kids.  I also have an end goal in mind, but without breaking it out and thinking about the process in a step by step way, it can feel overwhelming - I ask myself if we're doing enough, of the right things, right now.  And sometimes I tend to rush things, or expect too much . . . I thought that for my 2nd grader in particular, if I have an idea about what she should be learning when, that will help me relax and not compare her writing to what they are doing in ps - which seems to focus on quantity rather than quality, and include things like pretend spelling . . . 

 

So yes, the idea is to come up with core skills for each grade, and then build on them in the next grade.  So in 2nd grade, we focus on the mechanics of writing - learning to spell, in particular, so she can write what she wants to, and practicing the mechanics of writing through copywork and dictation, and we work on oral summary and narration skills.  Then I'd expect the next step to be to write those summaries and narrations, not more than a paragraph in length.  So in 3rd grade, you are writing lots of paragraphs, but you haven't focused too much on what a paragraph actually is - that becomes more relevant as you are doing multi-paragraph writing (4th grade), and you have to understand how and when to organize and divide your own writing into paragraphs.  FWIW, this was a missing step, I think, between WWE & WWS.  In WWE, you are writing summaries, and in WWS, you start writing multi-paragraph compositions, but you only spend one short lesson on topic sentences & paragraphs.  

 

Again, part of what is driving my desire to make this all explicit is that I think WWE is great for first writing, but for my kids, 3 or 4 years of it is total overkill - they are ready for more before 5th grade.  But WWS is too much of a jump.  There needs to be some explicit instruction in between those levels, and I'm trying to figure out just what it is, and when and how to teach it.

[Roadrunner]

I want to know which resources you are planning on using to pull this off and how each one ties with your plan. :)

 

I have been thinking a lot about how to take my kids from where we are to an analytical essay, and so far, I don't have anything concrete. I decided to work on summarizing and dictation skills for my second grader. In addition to WWE (we are getting really bored with it :( ), I have him write summaries of Greek mythology.

My goal for third grade is to polish up sentence structure (first semester) and go through all EPS Paragraph books (second semester) + begin CAP. Even though essay writing isn't a goal in the third grade, I do want him to start practicing some of the skills. Basically after we finish each chapter on Killgallon, we put it aside for several days to work on an essay. He has written several (Is Captain Hook Really Evil? Solon and Lycurgus...) so far. I can post it on the writing board if you are interested.

Third grade is as far as I have thought through.

Now I need to figure out what to do next, and I am grateful for your outline of upper grades :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

As far as a working definition of an essay  - great question! I've been kind of confused about that myself.  It seems like some posters consider essays only to be persuasive or analytical compositions - anything less is just a report.  But when I look at writing books, here are the definitions I find:

 

Kane, New Oxford Guide to Writing:  "a short prose piece" - he includes narrations, descriptions, and expository pieces as well

Payne, The Lively Art of Writing - she is much more restrictive, and explicitly excludes many kinds of compositions, limiting essays to "a written expression of its author's opinions"

MCT, Essay Voyage: an essay is "a three-part exploration of one subject, called the thesis" - which seems to be a middle ground; you can write about a thesis that isn't necessarily your own opinion, right?

 

SWB doesn't talk about essays specifcally, but talks about the high school years as a time to focus on persuasive writing which supports a well-formed thesis statement.

 

I guess I'm kind of conflating these definitions: I tried to distinguish between an essay as a short prose piece (5th grade) and a persuasive/analytical essay (7th & 8th grades).  I'm not exactly sure what to call which thing.  I guess I could just call it a composition, until it is focused on a specific thesis?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Roadrunner, I'm glad you joined the conversation! Actually, your posts of your son's compositions on the CAP thread is part of what inspired me to think about this more concretely! I am so impressed with what your 3rd grader is producing.  My 2nd grader is very bright, very articulate, and she can tell great stories, but she is nowhere near ready to write at that level.  I tried the CAP Fable first lesson with her, and she did fine on everything up till the retelling part.  I realized she's just not ready for that yet, nor can she sit and write her own multi-sentence story, mostly because she doesn't know how to spell very well yet . . . so I knew I needed to slow down and focus on the oral skills of narrating and summarizing, and the mechanics of spelling and writing, separately.  Hopefully by next year she will be ready to combine those skills into writing her own stories the way your son does!  But if I didn't think through where I thought she would be when, I knew I would get hung up comparing and feeling like what she is doing isn't enough . . . I know, this is my own hang up, but I'm trying to get a handle on it!  And having a plan helps me.

 

I do have a tentative list of resources to use in 2nd-8th grades . . . but I wanted to have a discussion focused on goals first, because I didn't want to just talk about curricula.  I want to have a clear idea of what I want to accomplish first, then choose the materials that will help me accomplish the goal most effectively - in some cases that might be a curriculum, in some cases not.  So I will post my ideas about materials later, but hopefully a few more people will chime in to talk about goals, first????

[Esse Quam Videri]

As far as a working definition of an essay  - great question! I've been kind of confused about that myself.  It seems like some posters consider essays only to be persuasive or analytical compositions - anything less is just a report.  But when I look at writing books, here are the definitions I find:

 

Kane, New Oxford Guide to Writing:  "a short prose piece" - he includes narrations, descriptions, and expository pieces as well

Payne, The Lively Art of Writing - she is much more restrictive, and explicitly excludes many kinds of compositions, limiting essays to "a written expression of its author's opinions"

MCT, Essay Voyage: an essay is "a three-part exploration of one subject, called the thesis" - which seems to be a middle ground; you can write about a thesis that isn't necessarily your own opinion, right?

 

SWB doesn't talk about essays specifcally, but talks about the high school years as a time to focus on persuasive writing which supports a well-formed thesis statement.

 

I guess I'm kind of conflating these definitions: I tried to distinguish between an essay as a short prose piece (5th grade) and a persuasive/analytical essay (7th & 8th grades).  I'm not exactly sure what to call which thing.  I guess I could just call it a composition, until it is focused on a specific thesis?

 

That's what I was wondering- to me, essay usually means thesis And I saw that you had included essays before you work on building a thesis, so I just wasn't sure. Again, though, how short are you thinking? 5 paragraph type?

 

I also think there's a difference between an academic essay (especially for K-12 purposes) and a creative "essay." The Best American Essays series is full of creative, nonacademic writing, more along the lines of just a "short prose piece." But prepping for these types of essays is entirely different than prepping for academic essays.

[Roadrunner]

I haven't done this yet, but I was planning to read thoroughly through Purdue writing project and hoping to use that as an end goal.

I am thinking about introducing various types of essays early (concurrently with skill building) and just expect more and more sophistication in argument and writing with each passing grade versus dedicating each grade to a particular skill.

 

I think of anything with a thesis and supporting paragraphs as an essay :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, I reworded 5th grade, changed "Essay" to "Composition".  I hesitate to state a specific length, because I think length should be defined by purpose, but I'm thinking 1-2 page papers, maybe 300-500 words?  That's a max, I think these skills can be practiced and demonstrated in 3 paragraph papers, as well as longer ones.  I'm thinking specifically of 3rd grade - mastering single paragraphs; 4th grade - learning to divide and organize thoughts into multi-paragraph compositions, and 5th grade - working on the different kinds of multi-paragraph compositions, like literary analysis (a la SWB), descriptions, chronological narratives, biographical sketches, etc.

[Pen]

I think your plan sounds excellent if it fits your children well!  My ds would not be in sync with it, and we got very frustrated trying to do a WTM/WWE writing approach, until I realized I had to teach a child and not a theory.  

 

On a side note, we are in Oregon and the testing for students in public schools here is called OAKS (something like Oregon Assessment of Knowledge and Skills).  We will have to do a standard standardized test as homeschoolers this year, but last time he had to test, my son did it with the local school as OAKS testing so I learned about that, and I was surprised by how good I found it.  I especially liked that the writing considered excellent was not some standard (awful) 5 paragraph idea of child  academic writing, but that the graders actually seemed to have read the essays and made good comments about them, with length and style judged according to the project and its needs.   It was also helpful to see samples of real child writing for various stages, because as a homeschool parent I do not normally get to see what that would be like.  

 

There are "essays" (narrative, descriptive) such as you describe on the 4th grade OAKS test, btw.

 

  If you google OAKS, you can I assume) get access to writing prompts for practice writing tests (I set up to do a practice test and then wrote down prompts for work at home rather than having him do them online), and sample scored "essays" (not to get into the definition of "essay" debate), of what they found excellent for different grade levels and types of writing that they have on the test.   I found it extremely helpful.  I also found it helpful to show my son some of them so that he could get a sense of what other children around his age might be doing that would be considered excellent.  It helps for a balance between thinking that a few simple sentences are sufficient on one hand, or thinking one has to have something up to published adult author standards on the other.  Also helpful for you to know if you look, the tests are not timed.  They can work on them, take a break for snack or stretching or bathroom, and go back and so on during a day's testing session, so long as breaks are under, I believe, 20 minutes.  When I first saw them, I did not realize that time was flexible and was wondering how the excellent ones could have been managed in just a short session by 4th graders.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

:lurk5:

 

 

[Esse Quam Videri]

Ok, I reworded 5th grade, changed "Essay" to "Composition".  I hesitate to state a specific length, because I think length should be defined by purpose, but I'm thinking 1-2 page papers, maybe 300-500 words?  That's a max, I think these skills can be practiced and demonstrated in 3 paragraph papers, as well as longer ones.  I'm thinking specifically of 3rd grade - mastering single paragraphs; 4th grade - learning to divide and organize thoughts into multi-paragraph compositions, and 5th grade - working on the different kinds of multi-paragraph compositions, like literary analysis (a la SWB), descriptions, chronological narratives, biographical sketches, etc.

 

Having those guidelines makes this sound more realistic. Still for an advanced writer IMO, but probably doable for most (if a parent wants that much specific writing instruction early on). I like it a lot! Keep us posted on what resources you find most helpful!

[Esse Quam Videri]

I think your plan sounds excellent if it fits your children well!  My ds would not be in sync with it, and we got very frustrated trying to do a WTM/WWE writing approach, until I realized I had to teach a child and not a theory.  

 

On a side note, we are in Oregon and the testing for students in public schools here is called OAKS (something like Oregon Assessment of Knowledge and Skills).  We will have to do a standard standardized test as homeschoolers this year, but last time he had to test, my son did it with the local school as OAKS testing so I learned about that, and I was surprised by how good I found it.  I especially liked that the writing considered excellent was not some standard (awful) 5 paragraph idea of child  academic writing, but that the graders actually seemed to have read the essays and made good comments about them, with length and style judged according to the project and its needs.   It was also helpful to see samples of real child writing for various stages, because as a homeschool parent I do not normally get to see what that would be like.  

 

There are "essays" (narrative, descriptive) such as you describe on the 4th grade OAKS test, btw.

 

  If you google OAKS, you can I assume) get access to writing prompts for practice writing tests (I set up to do a practice test and then wrote down prompts for work at home rather than having him do them online), and sample scored "essays" (not to get into the definition of "essay" debate), of what they found excellent for different grade levels and types of writing that they have on the test.   I found it extremely helpful.  I also found it helpful to show my son some of them so that he could get a sense of what other children around his age might be doing that would be considered excellent.  It helps for a balance between thinking that a few simple sentences are sufficient on one hand, or thinking one has to have something up to published adult author standards on the other.  Also helpful for you to know if you look, the tests are not timed.  They can work on them, take a break for snack or stretching or bathroom, and go back and so on during a day's testing session, so long as breaks are under, I believe, 20 minutes.  When I first saw them, I did not realize that time was flexible and was wondering how the excellent ones could have been managed in just a short session by 4th graders.

 

Just signed up to take the sample 4th grade writing. The child had to choose one of the following prompts:

 

Tell a true story about a time when you helped someone or someone helped you. (narrative)

 

The teacher placed a snack on the desk and left. It started to move. Make up a story about what happened. (imaginative)

 

Many people have an activity or hobby they like. Choose one of your favorite hobbies and explain it to someone who doesn’t know much about it. (expository)

 

Here's the link to actual graded tests: http://www.ode.state.or.us/search/page/?=525

 

I think it's helpful to see these... but I don't know if this lines up with WTM writing instruction. The "high" rated compositions have character and aspects of good writing, but not much structure.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Also, I don't think they're calling these "essays"... just sayin :tongue_smilie:

[Pen]

Just signed up to take the sample 4th grade writing. The child had to choose one of the following prompts:

 

Tell a true story about a time when you helped someone or someone helped you. (narrative)

 

The teacher placed a snack on the desk and left. It started to move. Make up a story about what happened. (imaginative)

 

Many people have an activity or hobby they like. Choose one of your favorite hobbies and explain it to someone who doesn’t know much about it. (expository)

 

Here's the link to actual graded tests: http://www.ode.state.or.us/search/page/?=525

 

I think it's helpful to see these... but I don't know if this lines up with WTM writing instruction. The "high" rated compositions have character and aspects of good writing, but not much structure.

 

 

They give a sample test with a choice of prompts as the real test does.  On another day you might have gotten a different set of prompts.  Samples that line up with WTM perfectly, that is, writing samples for WWS can be seen on the writing workshop sub-forum here.  Though most WWS students are probably older than 4th grade.

 

When you say "not much structure" could you elaborate what it is you are looking for by way of structure for a 4th grader?

 

I am at home and cannot access the OAKS from here (dial up only won't do it), and it has been awhile since I was looking at these, but my recollection was that I was positively impressed over all by the High end samples as coming out of a standardized testing situation--including conventions and organization aspects.  Maybe this is because I was not even expecting a standardized test to give real writing on it and anything would have impressed me compared to the usual writing assessment that involves multiple choice bubbles.   ????

 

Or maybe the structure you are looking for is different than the rubrics that are being used for grading these samples?

 

Do you by any chance have an example of something you see as well structured 4th grade writing that you could link by way of comparison?

 

Did you actually have your 4th grader try it out?

[Roadrunner]

Just got back from the soccer game. I read through the high end essays and yes, I think they are very impressive for fourth graders. I wonder what percentage of kids can write that well. Public school or homeschool, some kids just have a gift with writing and they will thrive in any environment.

My son folds when he is faced with creative assignments (narrative essay sample I would consider a creative assignment). I am not sure he would be able to produce a coherent paragraph, much less a well thought out composition. He can reason through a question about the topic he knows (book he read) or a topic he can research. I have no idea how to get him to loosen up with his imagination (free write failed at our house).

 

Topic matters. Do we draw mostly from lit/history when we teach essay writing, or is imaginative writing equally important?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Just got back from the soccer game. I read through the high end essays and yes, I think they are very impressive for fourth graders. I wonder what percentage of kids can write that well. Public school or homeschool, some kids just have a gift with writing and they will thrive in any environment.

My son folds when he is faced with creative assignments (narrative essay sample I would consider a creative assignment). I am not sure he would be able to produce a coherent paragraph, much less a well thought out composition. He can reason through a question about the topic he knows (book he read) or a topic he can research. I have no idea how to get him to loosen up with his imagination (free write failed at our house).

 

Topic matters. Do we draw mostly from lit/history when we teach essay writing, or is imaginative writing equally important?

 

I think that is a great question, and different resources I've looked at address it differently.  I've been accustomed to SWB's and MCT's focus on expository writing, which focuses on a formal, academic tone and writing about the subject matter under study.  Then I look at some of the other essay resources out there, especially those that focus on the essay as your opinion, and they are writing about their summer vacation and why they think fish tacos shouldn't be served . . . just the kind of assignment I've tended to try and avoid.

 

I'm also with SWB that no kid should be required to study Creative Writing explicitly unless they desire to.

 

I like the way that CAP's new Writing & Rhetoric program handles this for young kids - they are using fables & myths as models, but they retell or amplify the stories, which brings in an imaginative component.  It will be interesting to see where CAP goes with this series.  I wish there was a scope & sequence available, rather than just titles, for the whole thing . . . 

[Chelli]

You've inspired me to come up with my own writing sequence! Now I've got to think about it some more.

[Chrysalis Academy]

You've inspired me to come up with my own writing sequence! Now I've got to think about it some more.

 

Oh good!  I hope you will share it! 

[Chelli]

I think that is a great question, and different resources I've looked at address it differently.  I've been accustomed to SWB's and MCT's focus on expository writing, which focuses on a formal, academic tone and writing about the subject matter under study.  Then I look at some of the other essay resources out there, especially those that focus on the essay as your opinion, and they are writing about their summer vacation and why they think fish tacos shouldn't be served . . . just the kind of assignment I've tended to try and avoid.

 

I'm also with SWB that no kid should be required to study Creative Writing explicitly unless they desire to.

 

I like the way that CAP's new Writing & Rhetoric program handles this for young kids - they are using fables & myths as models, but they retell or amplify the stories, which brings in an imaginative component.  It will be interesting to see where CAP goes with this series.  I wish there was a scope & sequence available, rather than just titles, for the whole thing . . . 

 

Did you see the descriptions of each level in the introduction on page xiii? It gave me a better idea of where they are going with the program, but, of course, I would love even more detailed explanations!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh, thank you! I forgot that was in there . . . that does help.  

 

It's interesting that they are introducing persuasive elements much earlier than you see in other programs.   This also looks like an advanced S&S to me, in that you are trying to introduce the whole progym by 9th grade.  So far in the first two books, it seems very age appropriate, it will be very interesting to watch this series unfold.

 

So here is their general S&S, for comparison to mine (and they also seem to be using "essay" more broadly):

 

3rd-4th grade

Narrative

Narrative w/ descriptive elements

 

4th-5th grade

Expository essay with narrative, descriptive, and persuasive elements

Persuasive essay with narrative, descriptive, expository elements

 

5th-6th

Persuasive essay with narrative, descriptive, expository elements

 

7th-8th

Comparative essay with narrative, descriptive, expository, and persuasive elements

Descriptive essay with narrative, expository, persuasive and comparative elements

 

8th-9th

Persuasive essay with narrative, descriptive, expository and comparative elements

Persuasive essay with narrative, descriptive, expository, comparative and technical elements

[Chelli]

I thought it looked advanced too until I noticed that at the end of 4th they introduce persuasive elements. For all of 5th grade and part of 6th they continue working on writing persuasive essays. I have a feeling since they are spending basically two years on it that it will be done very systematically. Half a year is spent on comparison essays, then an entire year is spent on descriptive essays using all of the elements already learned. Finally they come back to persuasive essays for one year combining everything: narrative, descriptive, expository, and comparative. 

 

I think the sequence seems well-rounded and pretty well spread out. We'll see how it works when the books are actually published.

 

I'm still working on my own personal scope and sequence.

[Roadrunner]

I am still in the stages of acquiring various writing curricula, so it will be a while before I can read, digest, and develop my own approach. I am going to use your plan as a jumping point though.

 

On a side note, my son bombed his writing assessment last year in PS, because he was asked to write a letter to a lepricorn and give him an advice. He came home in tears, telling me he had nothing to say to a "stupid lepricorn."

[Chrysalis Academy]

I think your plan sounds excellent if it fits your children well!  My ds would not be in sync with it, and we got very frustrated trying to do a WTM/WWE writing approach, until I realized I had to teach a child and not a theory.  

 

 

 

Hi Pen,

 

Can you say what about the WTM/WWE writing approach didn't work for you guys?  For my kids, I feel like it's just way too incremental.  I like the idea behind the approach - break writing down into its components and practice them separately until they become easy before putting them back together - but my kids didn't/don't need 4 years to get this skill down.  But then WWS is too much of a jump from WWE - too advanced of reading materials in particular - to start it much earlier.  So part of what I am trying to address here is the gap I see for my own kids - they need something between narration/dictation and more involved compositions a la WWS.  And as you know, I have a few issues with WWS too . . . 

 

Anyway, hopefully I'm not being nosy, but I'm curious what does and doesn't work about this approach for others.

[Pen]

Just got back from the soccer game. I read through the high end essays and yes, I think they are very impressive for fourth graders. I wonder what percentage of kids can write that well. Public school or homeschool, some kids just have a gift with writing and they will thrive in any environment.

My son folds when he is faced with creative assignments (narrative essay sample I would consider a creative assignment). I am not sure he would be able to produce a coherent paragraph, much less a well thought out composition. He can reason through a question about the topic he knows (book he read) or a topic he can research. I have no idea how to get him to loosen up with his imagination (free write failed at our house).

 

Topic matters. Do we draw mostly from lit/history when we teach essay writing, or is imaginative writing equally important?

 

 

 

 

I do not believe that kids will thrive in any environment for writing.  I think creative gifts can be squashed.  Easily squashed, in fact.    And some of the kids who are especially gifted in writing tend also to be very sensitive and easily squashed.

 

Contrariwise,  I think even rudimentary skills can be better fostered to thrive in certain environments, than others.  

 

 

 

In our case, my ds is better at  free and imaginative writing--or at least more willing to do it, and has had a couple of poems published in a local publication, while none of his academic papers is publishable quality.  

 

Ironically, I came to these forums with writing being the greatest struggle area, and posting about writing initially.   At this stage, a couple of years or so later, I realize that I seem to have found my way with that, still using some prepared programs, but increasingly doing my own.

 

What I am working on with my son in writing is, I think, akin to imparting number sense and an interest in math early, rather than doing drill pages of arithmetic.  

 

 I work with my son where he is developmentally as a writer and as a person,  on both non-fiction academic writing and imaginative writing,  on  both prose and poetry, and with whatever writing and topics seem to grow and raise his abilities-- broadly understood in a holistic sense, rather than narrowly, because writing is so much tied to thinking and feeling.

 

----------------------------

 

 

As to the samples, I think the score percentages are available somewhere.   They are not scored on a curve, so in theory a high percentage could be at the High or Low level, but I would guess that the Middle level would give more of an idea about what was being done by average level 4th graders.  

[Roadrunner]

What I am working on with my son in writing is, I think, akin to imparting number sense and an interest in math early, rather than doing drill pages of arithmetic.

 

I work with my son where he is developmentally as a writer and as a person, on both non-fiction academic writing and imaginative writing, on both prose and poetry, and with whatever writing and topics seem to grow and raise his abilities-- broadly understood in a holistic sense, rather than narrowly, because writing is so much tied to thinking and feeling.

 

Can you describe what the process looks like for a concrete assignment? For those of us just starting out it is tremendously helpful to be able to peak into somebody else's "classroom." I would love an example of how you would approach a creative assignment.

Also, any materials you found particularly helpful in developing either your teaching or student skills?

I hope I am not derailing this thread!

[Pen]

Hi Pen,

 

Can you say what about the WTM/WWE writing approach didn't work for you guys?  For my kids, I feel like it's just way too incremental.  I like the idea behind the approach - break writing down into its components and practice them separately until they become easy before putting them back together - but my kids didn't/don't need 4 years to get this skill down.  But then WWS is too much of a jump from WWE - too advanced of reading materials in particular - to start it much earlier.  So part of what I am trying to address here is the gap I see for my own kids - they need something between narration/dictation and more involved compositions a la WWS.  And as you know, I have a few issues with WWS too . . . 

 

Anyway, hopefully I'm not being nosy, but I'm curious what does and doesn't work about this approach for others.

 

 

Hi, the question is good, but I am not sure how to articulate an answer.  

 

For the moment here are my thoughts:  Maybe part lies in that it (WWE) was too much like arithmetic drill pages.  Or as others have complained about WTM in other areas, too much poll-parrot.   I recall one really well done description that he did with WWE.  Once.   Mostly it caused a mechanical reaction, rote work without brain engaged, killing a sense of love for writing,  turning it into drudgery, causing resistance.  That he tends towards dyslexia and dysgraphia, but also is advanced in his thinking (2E) does not help.   Copywork, a big part of WTM/WWE was not a strong point for him at all until he learned to type which was not until recently.  And there seemed to be a mismatch of synchronicity with his interest stage and ability.   

 

I had started by thinking if something like WWE was wrong that he needed something even more for struggling students, and went even more in a wrong direction at first, until I realized that he needed something more akin to what AoPS or JA are for math, but for writing.

 

At the moment, I am not really using curriculum for writing at all, but when I last was doing so, Brave Writer and later 6 Traits (what is used by and large for the writing in OAKS, btw, and how I heard of that), have been better fits to his development.

 

Surprisingly, I thought that his form of struggling, reluctant, etc., would have been helped by having something to work from as with WWE or IEW so that he could work on the writing without having to also come up with original ideas at the same time.   But it turned out not to be so.

 

 I'll let the question  sit at the back of my mind as I do other things, and if I think of other ideas that seem more right to me than what I wrote above, plan to return to it  to  edit!  

[TarynB]

Pen, a lot of what you wrote above is really resonating with me, as I think about my DS and teaching writing. 

 

I know you said you're not currently using a formal curriculum, but do you have any links for further info about the 6 Traits curriculum you mentioned?  (I'm somewhat familiar with Bravewriter but I need something more concrete, for me as a teacher.  I wonder if 6 Traits might help me.)  My interest is piqued and I'd love to learn more.

 

At the moment, I am not really using curriculum for writing at all, but when I last was doing so, Brave Writer and later 6 Traits (what is used by and large for the writing in OAKS, btw, and how I heard of that), have been better fits to his development.

 

Sorry for the hijack.  This is a great thread, Rose!  Thank you!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Can you describe what the process looks like for a concrete assignment? For those of us just starting out it is tremendously helpful to be able to peak into somebody else's "classroom." I would love an example of how you would approach a creative assignment.

Also, any materials you found particularly helpful in developing either your teaching or student skills?

I hope I am not derailing this thread!

 

 

Not at all! I'd love to see the thread develop into sharing techniques and materials!

[abrightmom]

You've inspired me to come up with my own writing sequence! Now I've got to think about it some more.

Ditto. I've been working on it for about a week and this thread is greasing the wheels!  

[abrightmom]

On a side note, my son bombed his writing assessment last year in PS, because he was asked to write a letter to a lepricorn and give him an advice. He came home in tears, telling me he had nothing to say to a "stupid lepricorn."

While I am sorry he bombed the writing assessment I have to agree with the lad. What a lame writing assignment for a 7 or 8yo!!! 

[Pen]

Taryn: The book for 6 Traits I have is Traits of Writing, The Complete Guide for Middle School by Ruth Culham.  This is a book to guide the teacher.  I did not find any of the workbooks for this sort of writing to be what I wanted.

 

For Roadrunner's question: At an earlier stage I found Peggy Kaye's Games for Writing useful.  Even though my ds was largely too old by the time I found it, it gave me ideas that sparked my personal ideas about what I could do to make writing more of a game and more fun at his level, or specific to his interests.  This often involved coming up with something that fit his own reading interests.   Many programs use fairy tales or fables as models, but my son liked fantasy like Book of Three, Percy Jackson, and so on, so I would try to come up with ideas that leaned that way.  At some point we would both spend winter evenings writing by candlelight--each our own thing.  That was before we got a wild puppy who might cause a disaster trying to do that, and we won't be able to do it  again till the pup settles down which I doubt will be this winter, but it was delightful and changed the energy around writing.  If you could have peeked in on our homeschool writing the evening sessions by candlelight would have probably been something you'd have noticed as unusual.

 

Although I have not used it for writing exercises or grammar exercises, I find MCT's way of talking about language, the sound and rhythms of English, very helpful.  I see MCT in your sig.

 

I think Zaner-Bloser is quite good both for grammar and also for its writing book.   While I did not actually use the writing book directly with my son, its rubrics and ideas were helpful to me as a teacher along with 6 Traits--and the two are somewhat similar.  

 

Rose: Z-B has more toward "essay" and "research" type writing than 6 Traits, and might fit the gap between WWE and WWS.   I think perhaps Traits tends to move toward what is more actually excellent in writing.  But I had a 3rd grade level of ZB and a middle school level of Traits, so maybe that makes it too hard to compare.

 

We did a lot with a digital recorder to get past the physical problems with writing, and with that and in many other ways, I put a premium on composition skills and content, rather than on penmanship and mechanics.  

 

 

 

Stopping to look at writing and listen to its cadences, or otherwise consider it, especially in excellent writing, is helpful.  Often the first time through a book one just wants to read (or listen) for plot, but going back to look at the writing is valuable.   Also helpful is to look at things that are not clearly or well written and consider that.   Sometimes if I am trying to write something I invite my son to contribute his own ideas or editing help, or he will look over my shoulder and make comments, which have become increasingly astute.  It is easier for him to see and fix problems in my writing than in his own.

 

 

I have found it helpful to give prompts that might be meaningful to my particular child and his interests or feelings at a particular moment, to be used along with free writing (rather than an open ended free write with no suggestion at all as to what to write about).   If I leave it totally open he will often say he has nothing to say.  If I give a topic idea, sometimes he will use that, sometimes he will say that he wants to write about something else, but it still works to help him get to a subject.    I also learned to take things like the topic prompts from OAKS test and look at what types of things one might write about for each, even if he chose not to.   

 

I found learning how to comment in positive, upbeat ways, and how to let my son own his writing himself very helpful--things I found a Brave Writer class helpful for.   I posted a bunch about this in threads on the Learning Challenges forum.  To find the main place(s), search for the words Viking and longship, since I posted some of my son's work with the online course teacher's comments.  Before the class started, I had had the idea that filling him up with a few different subject areas that he might use for writing would be a good idea, so I did that and he chose Vikings as his topic from amongst these possibilities.

 

Rose again:  I think what he was able to do with his Vikings research paper using a Brave Writer sort of approach, also would put WWS easily in his grasp--though for my son, it will probably make more sense to go on with another research paper this year done in a similar way to the Vikings one.   We will see.  I am concerned that though I look at WWS and think it excellent, it took a lot to get son out of the resistant writer state, and I am wary of going back there.  If I use WWS it may be more for me and less directly with my son.

 

Roadrunner again: Positive commenting led into poetry.   He had written something poetic and I told him that it could be a poem.  He debated this because it did not rhyme, which at that time he thought poetry had to do, and so we looked at what poetry is, and examples of free verse.  And then he did a bit more and a bit more poetry from time to time, particularly because it took more thinking than pencil use, and he likes getting his writing credit with mostly what goes on in his head.  I never told him to write a poem, but rather noticed that he had done so without even meaning to or knowing he had.  And so, that from the very start, was his own way and own authentic voice.  It was like noticing a well done part of a picture and pointing that out.   There was no stage of giving ideas, or a formula for writing one as some programs do, including I think some MCT materials.   It could just as well have been something I would have noticed about prose expression in nonfiction academic work, or fiction dialogue.   I guess that is something that I know how to do because I myself studied writing and some of my best writing teachers used to do that--show us what worked in our own writing, point out a well done phrase.   So when Brave Writer showed me some of this as applied to a child's writing, I was able to find ways to apply that from my own studies too, just realizing that I was looking for excellence at an 8, 9, 10 year old level, excellence also in terms of his own development as compared to the previous day's work, perhaps, and not as compared to top writers of the past several centuries.  So, I do believe that it can be helpful to copy models of excellent writing, but I also believe that it can be helpful to work from one's own starts toward written expression and build on those.

 

 

 

 

[Pen]

 

On a side note, my son bombed his writing assessment last year in PS, because he was asked to write a letter to a lepricorn and give him an advice. He came home in tears, telling me he had nothing to say to a "stupid lepricorn."

 

 

Speaking of things that can squash kids, I'd say that is a good example.   

 

OTOH, at some point, when it is not so raw, that itself could become grist for writing...that is to write about the experience of that assignment.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've also gleaned a lot from Bravewriter about how to approach writing, how to talk about writing, and how to temper my own attitudes and be more supportive about my kids' writing.  But again, when I look at the actual writing, it doesn't feel like enough.  My kids aren't reluctant writers, they are very verbal and strong readers and speakers and writers, and I feel that they are able (at least my dd10 is able) to do a lot more than what is expected in the BW scope & sequence.  Just a thought triggered by Pen's post.

 

I really like models for teaching writing.  One of the things I like about MCT's Essay Voyage is the great sample essays, both MCT's and the classic essays he uses.  I've recently gotten an old copy of Warriners Composition: Models & Exercises, First Course (which I think must be targeted at about 7th grade) and dd and I are enjoying reading the very short lesson, then reading and discussing the model, before she goes off to write her own composition focused on the modeled skill.

 

I've felt pretty confident in teaching multi-source reports, biographical sketches, chronological narratives, and other expository writing after reading WWS as a resource for myself, and seeing how it's all put together.  I don't think that incremental piece-by-piece method clicks with my dd very well, so I teach it in a way that is more intuitive to both of us, but I have learned so much about *what* to teach from WWS.

 

I think my biggest issue with my dd10's writing is, at this moment, that it sounds very young - she has a great vocabulary, but doesn't draw on it much for writing.  I can't quite put my finger on the issue exactly, if it's not enough varied sentence structure, or too simple of sentences, or too simple of words, or what, but it sounds like . . . well, it sounds like a 10 year old wrote it!  Which is maybe just fine . . . but when she speaks, she sounds much more mature, yet this doesn't yet carry through into her writing.  I'm not sure if this is something I can or need to address, or if it will come with increasing maturity and with reading more.  I suppose we could actually start using Killgallon more consistently, that might really help.  

 

There are so many different things to do in writing instruction! It can be hard to figure out what to focus on.  Reading Pen's post, and thinking about what I admired about Roadrunner's son's compositions, I realize my S&S doesn't have anything about writing style.  But one of the reasons I structured the S&S the way I did is that I wanted to focus on a few key skills each year, rather than be totally scattershot, trying to do a little of everything, which is kind of what I see myself doing as I try and teach w/o a curriculum - I keep bouncing around, from reports to paragraphs to style, wanting to cover it all.  That's why I needed a step back and a few deep breaths!!

 

So any thoughts about writing style?  What have you done to help your student improve their writing style and/or develop a voice?  

[Pen]

Rose, Could you post, or if there is one already somewhere link to a post, of DD10 writing?

[Mrs Twain]

Rose,

Thanks very much for starting this thread.  My S&S for writing is very similar to yours, though I haven't written it out in so much detail.  I don't do as much with narration and summaries, though maybe we should get to that more often.  My kids do more writing in 2nd grade, namely starting to get the idea of how to write a paragraph.  Also, my kids do journaling in 1st-2nd grades in which they draw a picture on the blank top half of the page and write about it on the lined bottom of the page.

 

My eldest is in 5th now.  As far as lit analysis, he will write a monthly 4-paragraph book report as per R&S English 5 (can't remember which lesson that is, ninety-something, I think).  This consists of an opening paragraph (title, author, copyright, genre), second paragraph for characters and setting, third paragraph for plot and conflict, and fourth paragraph for the student's opinion.  Basically a summary book report.  For other lit analysis topics more advanced than that, I am having my kids go through a program orally with me, where we have a discussion rather than having them write papers.  I am not sure where we will go with the lit analysis after this year, but it is definitely one of the lower priorities for me.

 

I also aim to have my kids learn essay writing in 7th and 8th.  I want my kids to be able to write a solid essay before they arrive in high school, wherever that will be (homeschool or B&M). 

 

I don't think your S&S is advanced.  Then again we work on writing every day of the school year, and I feel that many homeschoolers don't work on writing often or soon enough.  That is just my opinion, though.

 

Concerning style as in your last post, IEW is fabulous on that front.  Yes, the writing assignments often sound stilted at first.  However after having done IEW for a couple of years and having used the IEW checklist so many times, my son naturally incorporates the dress-ups and other style elements in his writing.

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Pen, you got it!  I moved this to the K-8 Writing workshop, it seems better suited there and I don't want to derail this thread, but if you guys would take a look and give me feedback, I'd love that!

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/490684-dd10s-first-multi-source-report-w-citations/

 

 

[Esse Quam Videri]

They give a sample test with a choice of prompts as the real test does.  On another day you might have gotten a different set of prompts.  Samples that line up with WTM perfectly, that is, writing samples for WWS can be seen on the writing workshop sub-forum here.  Though most WWS students are probably older than 4th grade.

 

When you say "not much structure" could you elaborate what it is you are looking for by way of structure for a 4th grader?

 

I am at home and cannot access the OAKS from here (dial up only won't do it), and it has been awhile since I was looking at these, but my recollection was that I was positively impressed over all by the High end samples as coming out of a standardized testing situation--including conventions and organization aspects.  Maybe this is because I was not even expecting a standardized test to give real writing on it and anything would have impressed me compared to the usual writing assessment that involves multiple choice bubbles.   ????

 

Or maybe the structure you are looking for is different than the rubrics that are being used for grading these samples?

 

Do you by any chance have an example of something you see as well structured 4th grade writing that you could link by way of comparison?

 

Did you actually have your 4th grader try it out?

 

I'm thinking structure as far as paragraph/thought organization. I think each of these kids obviously has a gift at storytelling and they are all natural writers. I'm not discounting that at all. What I'm saying is, as far as teaching writing, is this the output to aim for? Is this what SWB would hope her method produces? (Clearly it's not, since WWE doesn't have any sort of creative writing, or composition writing at all.)

 

Structured writing, to me, would be topic sentences, transition sentences that bridge the ideas between one paragraph and another, strong concluding sentences (within each paragraph) and then obviously that same organization throughout the composition as a whole. I'm not saying I expect this out of a fourth grader, I'm just saying.... Is it more beneficial to teach organization first, or let the creative voice come out and worry about those things later? I don't know.

 

Again, while many aspects of good writing are similar for both creative and expository writing, the training/prep for writing an essay versus a short story or poem is so, so different. There were many students who thrived in my creative writing classes but struggled through many of the lit classes (which are by far the majority).

 

I think the ideal scope/sequence will be different for each kid. I'm not saying that I think my fourth grader could produce better writing than these kids... BUT, I do believe that when my fourth grader is in high school, she'll be producing incredible writing :-). I know that if we worked on it, she would be writing "better" creatively right now. But I'm not sure that's what I want. I'm not sure that's the best way to get to the end result I want.

 

I'm enjoying this thread a lot and I'm not trying to discount the success of what other people are doing with their kids. As I said, every kid will have a unique journey into self-expression, but it definitely helps to hear about someone else's.

[Chelli]

Here's my Scope and Sequence which takes into account where CAP is going with their program as well since I feel that we will stay with it for the foreseeable future.

 

2nd grade: copywork (focusing on writing mechanics) and CM-style oral narrations

 

3rd grade: dictation, beginning summarizing, CM-style oral narrations, teach and practice paragraph construction, focus on writing strong sentences

 

4th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, three paragraph reports/essays (write 1 every 2 weeks), focus on writing strong paragraphs, focus on descriptive and persuasive writing

 

5th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, reports/essays (write 1 every week), focus on strong introductions/conclusions, focus on persuasive writing

 

6th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, more advanced reports/essays (write 1 every 2 weeks), focus on supporting quotes, focus on comparison and persuasive writing

 

7th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, research reports/essays (write 3-4 during the school year from a list of literature, history, and/or science topics), focus on refining all elements

 

8th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, research reports/essays (write 5-6 during the school year from a list of literature, history, and/or science topics), focus on refining all elements

 

Even though creative writing isn't directly addressed in my scope and sequence I fully plan on having dd do some of these reports/essays with a creative writing bent or focusing on creative writing in and of itself for a couple of assignments every year.

 

 

[TarynB]

Taryn: The book for 6 Traits I have is Traits of Writing, The Complete Guide for Middle School by Ruth Culham.  This is a book to guide the teacher.  I did not find any of the workbooks for this sort of writing to be what I wanted.

Pen, thank you for responding to my question and, although I didn't quote it in its entirely, for your thoughtful post above.  This thread has been so helpful. 

[sbgrace]

I'm creating a writing program as well. Actually, I think synthesizing a variety of resources to create a program is a more accurate description. I have been doing a lot of reading of articles like this http://www.hawaii.edu/mauienglish/department/pages/Teaching_composition.pdf and this http://www.popecenter.org/commentaries/article.html?id=2843. I requested books on the topic via interlibrary loan as well. And I've been reflecting.

 

We've used several popular writing programs, and nothing has ever seemed quite right to me. That is what initially set me on my research journey. And what I found resonated with me and turned me in a different direction. I do like aspects of various things we've used, and I'm cobbling together those aspects to some extent-at least so far. But, largely, I'm departing from what we've used in the past, particularly in primary focus. Instead, I'm organizing around the six traits. That will be our focus. Assignments used to practice that focus are still a bit of a question mark.  I'm not sure whether I will assign topics specifically structured toward the trait, provide them with prompts as choices while allowing free write if they would like, or merge more classical type assignments such as CAP or WWE.  I am trying a mix of those ideas now. I'm also not entirely sure how I want to teach paragraphing/organization (ie the blueprint type approach of topic sentence/supporting detail/closing isn't quite what I want perhaps...something more like this http://blog.stenhouse.com/archives/2010/10/27/questions-authors-teaching-organization-to-young-writers/).

 

I'm sold on the six traits focus, though. I'm not sure where it will end up, but I like what I'm seeing here so far.

 

edited to add: on the sequence. I'm not doing that. Of course I have an idea of where I'd like us to end up, and I'll plan material to get  there. But I plan to teach each child where he is now with an eye toward where I'd like him to progress instead of expecting x or y at various grades.  One of my main goals right now, actually, is that they see themselves as skilled/talented writers (I've got very different kids and different words would appeal). Another is that they enjoy themselves. The third is that they are learning and progressing as writers. I'm seeing those three things. So I'm excited going forward.

 

[Soror]

Thanks ladies for sharing. I've been thinking a lot about so I'm listening in here. I'm pretty happy w/ ds, he is using WR1 and WWE3 but we are generally only doing the narration days of WWE. I'm having him write one of those down himself and I write the other one. I'm doing a lesson of WR1 a week and plan to finish this up before the end of school and then perhaps start the EPS paragraph book. My goal for this year is a decent paragraph.

 

I don't think I'm going to start any formal program w/ my dd 1st. Once her reading is more fluent I plan to start her on copywork. I just started reading chapter books for her and we do a bit of discussion at times, so I'm laying the groundwork for narration here. I have the Sentence Family and I think I'll likely use that sometime next year. I think she will love it and it will be a good gentle intro to grammar.

 

Although WWE worked well for ds I don't know that I will use it for dd, if we continue to like WR I might just put her into that in 3rd and do our own thing until then OR perhaps by then I'll just want to do my own design for writing, who knows. I have more I need to study about writing but I'm happy w/ our plan for the present.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

I think my biggest issue with my dd10's writing is, at this moment, that it sounds very young - she has a great vocabulary, but doesn't draw on it much for writing.  I can't quite put my finger on the issue exactly, if it's not enough varied sentence structure, or too simple of sentences, or too simple of words, or what, but it sounds like . . . well, it sounds like a 10 year old wrote it!  Which is maybe just fine . . . but when she speaks, she sounds much more mature, yet this doesn't yet carry through into her writing.  I'm not sure if this is something I can or need to address, or if it will come with increasing maturity and with reading more.  I suppose we could actually start using Killgallon more consistently, that might really help. 

 

Have you been reading my thoughts again???? :sneaky2: :toetap05:

 

I could have written that about my dd (except she's newly 12).  This has been on my mind lately--right down to the sentence about Killgallon.

 

So, now that I know you're on top of things, I'll just sit back and wait for you to figure it out first. :tongue_smilie:

[Chrysalis Academy]

Have you been reading my thoughts again???? :sneaky2: :toetap05:

 

I could have written that about my dd (except she's newly 12).  This has been on my mind lately--right down to the sentence about Killgallon.

 

So, now that I know you're on top of things, I'll just sit back and wait for you to figure it out first. :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

Yeah, I'll get right on that!  ;)  :D

[Mrs Twain]

A couple of other thoughts on the S&S idea.

I can't cite sources, but listening to good quality writing (not reading silently to self) as well as poetry memorization are both very important for teaching kids how to write.  One can't expect to get complex grammar constructions out of the kids' brains if it is not there in the first place.  Mostly I have heard Andrew Pudewa talk about these concepts.  We have been listening to audio books in the car to increase our read alouds and using IEW Linguistic Development Through Poetry Memorization.

 

I also appreciate Andrew Pudewa's strategy about length of compositions/essays.  Instead of word count requirements (which means the child may be largely focused on counting words) or page requirements (which means the child may be focused on changing the font and margins), require a certain number of paragraphs.  Make requirements for each paragraph including style elements and sentence variety.  IEW does this using a checklist of items such as dress-ups and sentence openers.  If the child completes the checklist, the paragraphs and paper will be the length your are looking for.  Also, word or page requirements discourage learning how to write concisely. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Here's my Scope and Sequence which takes into account where CAP is going with their program as well since I feel that we will stay with it for the foreseeable future.

 

2nd grade: copywork (focusing on writing mechanics) and CM-style oral narrations

 

3rd grade: dictation, beginning summarizing, CM-style oral narrations, teach and practice paragraph construction, focus on writing strong sentences

 

4th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, three paragraph reports/essays (write 1 every 2 weeks), focus on writing strong paragraphs, focus on descriptive and persuasive writing

 

5th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, reports/essays (write 1 every week), focus on strong introductions/conclusions, focus on persuasive writing

 

6th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, more advanced reports/essays (write 1 every 2 weeks), focus on supporting quotes, focus on comparison and persuasive writing

 

7th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, research reports/essays (write 3-4 during the school year from a list of literature, history, and/or science topics), focus on refining all elements

 

8th grade: dictation, written narrations and summaries, research reports/essays (write 5-6 during the school year from a list of literature, history, and/or science topics), focus on refining all elements

 

Even though creative writing isn't directly addressed in my scope and sequence I fully plan on having dd do some of these reports/essays with a creative writing bent or focusing on creative writing in and of itself for a couple of assignments every year.

 

 

Chelli, I like this a lot.  I like that it starts out gently, but ramps up more quickly than WWE.  

 

One of my issues is that I didn't start hsing dd10 till 4th grade.  So with my 2nd grader, I'm trying to figure out what is appropriate - I have an experience gap here.  In first grade, they had a ton of writing but with no feedback and not very meaningful assignments.  For homework, 3 nights a week, she had to read a book and write a sentence about it - could be anything.  Then once a week they had to write a 5 or 6 sentence "hamburger paragraph" in their writing journals.  It seemed like they were going for quantity rather than quality, and my dd could do it, but I didn't think she was learning anything about writing well.  So I've been fine with backing her up to work on the solid skills of copywork, dictation, narration, and summarizing.  WWE seemed to easy for her at first, but I have been adapting how I use it and it's a better fit now.  I did try her with CAP W&R, and she did fine with the whole first lesson up to the retelling.  She told a very rambling story, which she could not have written down, and frankly, I didn't want to either.  I realized, though, that she can do it, but I'd have to scribe for her, and I thought she'd be missing some of the benefit of the program doing it that way (too soon, me doing the writing) so I decided to wait - though I think some are scribing for their kids with this program.

 

That's a dilemna I've struggled with for both girls - they seem to be ready for something more, but if I bump them up to a higher level & more demanding program, are they really getting its full benefit? That's been a big topic of debate in WWS discussions - a 4th or 5th grader maybe can do it, but maybe isn't realizing the full benefit of the program, or isn't producing very sophisticated output.  

 

So how do those of you who have what you consider advanced/accelerated writers meet their needs? Do you use curricula written for older kids, or do you wing it? Or something else?