Want to redo high school history - do TruthQuest in a year

[afruitfulbranch]

Hello everyone,

 

I'll get to the point and then explain.

 

Have any of you tried doing all or most of TruthQuest in one year?  How has it worked?

 

Context:

I have a daughter who is a high school senior and we need to change what we've been doing, but I don't know how to fit it all in.  I would like to do TQ perhaps alongside Simply Charlotte Mason books with my other children.  At the TQ site, there is a one-year schedule for those starting the program in grade 12. (It won't really be a problem if she graduates a semester late.  She will probably start CLEPing courses for college late in her senior year or just after.)

 

Backstory:

Why am I changing things when she is about to graduate? In a nutshell, because I don't want her to "just graduate."  She did AO lifepac US History and Streams of Civilization but we were just trying to finish without supplementing so she doesn't remember much.  We've been homeschooling for nearly 20 years but recently we've just been in "get 'er done" mode to meet the requirements and history comprehension is one area that has suffered. I'd rather tailor school to enhance my children's God-given strengths and to improve their weak areas. We did a better job of this with our first two boys.  Even though we used textbooks for history to quickly meet the requirements, they did a lot of supplemental reading and they enjoyed learning history so they mastered much more of it. 

 

In sum:

So, TruthQuest seems to be what we need now and seems like it would be a "fit" for where I’m going with the last ones.  I am also hoping that as we discuss it as a family, some of my older daughter's "gaps" will get filled in (not because she needs it for school but for her benefit). I wish I had come across TQ a few years earlier.  

 

Any suggestions? I hope so!  I've read how TQ can be overwhelming. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[PeterPan]

Well this is just my two cents, but you might have a few more options.  I'm a fan of TQ and used the AHYS 1-3 and the ancients and whatnot books when my dd was younger.  As you say, structuring was a problem, so we used the VP elementary sequence of history cards as our spine and filled it in with tons of TQ books.  That for us was fabulous.  I went to look at the high school AOR books recently, and (scrunching my face here) I don't think I could get it to work for my dd.  I have a friend who tried and it didn't work out either.  It was great stuff, mind you, but I think it wasn't scratching the analytical, connection-making itch.  It seemed like an expansion of the lower levels, and a good high school sequence goes farther.  

 

It's fine, the books are great, and I understand why you're thinking that.  I just wanted to suggest that, in your shoes, I might give myself a bit more freedom even.  What I suggest you do is find 3 dvd (or netflix or what have you) series that she can watch that she'll be REALLY INTERESTED in.  Then have her pick a list of 10 books she wants to read.  That will be one every 3 weeks.  If you want to cover the entirety of world history, well fine, do so.  But that way she's digging in *memorably* into 10 specific time periods and scenarios and getting really comfy there.  I think that would be much better than trying to go through ALL the TQ guides in a year, mercy.  That to me would be an insane whirlwind, whew!  And that's from someone who likes them!  Some of my dd's favorite books came from the TQ guides.  I'm just saying I wouldn't try to do them all.  That's being too perfectionist, when she has already DONE those time periods.  EVERYBODY forgets things, and I doubt there's ANYBODY here (or hardly anybody?) who feels like they had this stellar high school history education and remember what they studied.  So don't be perfectionist or think this is somehting you need to fix.  Instead I would be glad she has her reading comprehension and settle down and ask what the MOST APPROPRIATE way is for a happy senior (is she a senior?) to approach history.  And I think your senior year is the time to have some freedom, do something really different, etc.

 

So when I say dvd series, I'm thinking of things like Manor House, Pioneer House, that kind of thing.  You can pull in women's history, cultural issues, things that will be very memorable to her.  Here's a link to a super duper list for 20th century.  That would be another way to go you know, focusing solely on the 20th century.  It would be incredibly memorable to her, very visual, very relevant, very applicable to voting issues, social policy, and other things that will interest her.  http://www.guesthollow.com/history_shelf/history_shelf10.html   So you go through the list together and you pick some videos.  Then you go through the list (or amazon or TQ AOR3 or what have you) and pick *10* books, only 10.  Then make up some kind of response/feedback page she fills out as she reads. That page would be a write-up on context, author bio, things that surprised you, quotes, timeline of the years surrounding, whatever you think is relevant that will prompt some synthesis. Then specify 3 major projects.  They could be sewing, cooking, whatever, and let them each explore something different.  So maybe if she focuses on 20th century (what we're doing this year, so I can highly recommend it!  :)  ), she decides to sew a 50s style poodle skirt, make recipes from a Depression cookbook, and do a report on music across the century.  If she picks the projects she's digging in on, they'll be memorable to her, kwim?  

 

My dd is crazy into history and I'm NOT.  That's pretty much how I teach my dd though.  It's why the TQ books were so helpful to us, and I get why you're wanting them.  I'm just saying I'd slow it down and let her dig in.  She's at a good age to dig in, and it will give her the memorable you want.  It's a very CM thing to dig in.  (You mentioned liking SCM.)  CM said she'd rather have a kid understand one man (woman!) and her context and motives and situation VERY WELL than to skim a bunch of things superficially.  So there's no need to be superficial and blow through a ton of TQ.  You can't change the past.  Maybe she's not even a history person, no matter how you teach her.  Just embrace the present with something thought-provoking that she digs in on.  That's what she'll remember.

 

Oh, and my suggestions for things for a history hater?  I really liked russian poetry, russian dictators, that kind of thing when I was in high school.  She could read about the controversies with the supposed survivor princess, realities of life under communism, gripping stories of KGB enforcers who converted to Christianity, etc.  

 

The Persecutor

The gospel in bonds

The Romanovs: the Final Chapter

The Children of the Arbat: A Novel (Arbat Trilogy)  this series I read, it's pretty gritty

 

Beyond that, look at that video link I gave you above.  She has books included too.  If one book doesn't suit you, you can easily find more.  Don't forget to pursue a women's history or social/cultural history angle.  

 

[afruitfulbranch]

Thanks OhElizabeth for taking this time to make this well-thought post.

 

I must confess that I do not have the TQ materials yet, so perhaps what I am suggesting is preposterous.  Based on what I read and on the samples, I thought that TQ wasn't actually a plan but more a list with thought provokers.  The options floating in my head were:

1. Use the SCM guides/plans to help me whittle down the TQ, and then whittle the SCM down even more to core concepts in each period.
2. Take the four spines mentioned in TQ for those who have to do it all in 1 year and see if I could use that with a SCM plan.
3. Just pick and chose from the TQ and make my own plan.

Whatever the case literature, writing, and Bible would be integrated with the history which would spread the history out across the subjects.  In reality, she only needs a few courses to complete her senior year with the minimum requirements one of which is a 15 page research paper.  And they like to read so their free time books would also come from history.  So history in everything!

 

At the dinner table tonight I was discussing the changes I want to make and why.   I also suggested that my 15 yr old ds do his research paper on a historical topic and that my daughter (the senior) could continue with her Bible topic that she was planning for her research paper or she could change to history if she wanted or do Bible History... 

 

Here are the responses I got:

• 15 yr old son: :hurray: Wow, this is great!  Can I do the revolutionary war?  (He wants to do his 15 page paper this year instead of waiting til he's a senior, we'll see.)
• 20 yr old daughter who is CLEPing her general ed. requirements:  :ohmy: Mom, oh my goodness!  I am so glad I'm done with school.  [Wrong response! at least out loud :) ]  I think she was kidding...
• Daughter whose senior year is going to be affected:  :mellow: "Well, I only have a few courses to graduate anyway."  Later she said she thought it sounds good. :thumbup1:

All that to say, I think that we will at least all be unified in purpose.  I really like your dvd ideas (we've done a little of that before) and about letting them pick the books and zeroing in on what they are REALLY INTERESTED in.  That way they will own this change.

 

I am also following another thread in which the same basic question is being asked (without the TQ part): http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/488091-please-help-with-condensed-world-history/

 

THANKS SO MUCH!

[afruitfulbranch]

It's fine, the books are great, and I understand why you're thinking that.  I just wanted to suggest that, in your shoes, I might give myself a bit more freedom even.  What I suggest you do is find 3 dvd (or netflix or what have you) series that she can watch that she'll be REALLY INTERESTED in.  Then have her pick a list of 10 books she wants to read.  That will be one every 3 weeks.  If you want to cover the entirety of world history, well fine, do so.  But that way she's digging in *memorably* into 10 specific time periods and scenarios and getting really comfy there.  I think that would be much better than trying to go through ALL the TQ guides in a year, mercy. 

 

I didn't quote you in my response but I wanted to highlight this nugget.  Thanks again for your "2 cents."

 

[PeterPan]

Just for discussion purposes, is this what you're referring to?

 

One-year plan (when beginning at Grade 12):*

It is rarely feasible to cover several epochs in one year using TruthQuest History, though we have seen it done at a very rapid pace (with the TQH commentary and one spine being read from each TQH guide). We recommend that you do Beginnings during "Bible time," as a crucial foundation, if possible, and then either, for "history time," select one TQH guide, especially "Age of Revolution III," or that you simply read four intensely insightful books (available through most homeschool suppliers, Christian bookstores, and church libraries):

• How Should We Then Live? by Francis Schaeffer (video version is equally excellent)
• Story of Liberty by Charles Coffin (filter intensity of some statements regarding popes)
• Seven Men Who Rule the World from the Grave by Dave Breese
• Postmodern Times by Gene Edward Veith

*(When planning for students with just one, two, or even three years available to study history, parents will need to confidently decide which topics to study and which to omit. Please note that you can move through the guides more quickly by relying most heavily on "spine" books, rather than a multiplicity of topic-specific books.)

 

 

I don't know if you caught this, but she's essentially saying you shouldn't try to cover everything.  Check, but I think AOR3 *is* modern history like I suggested to you.  Yup, I just checked.  AOR2 goes through 1865.  So AOR3 is Gilded Age to Modern.  The GuestHollow link will fit fabulously with that.  None of those 4 books she lists there look interesting to me, but my kid isn't 17.  You said you wanted memorable, so that would be my only criterion.  

 

As far as the research paper, have you thought of having it put to use, say for a National History Day project?   :)  Your oldest could even do a documentary.  My dd did one last year and had a FABULOUS experience, highly recommend.  You could even let her do that and just totally skip all that spine stuff and just let her dig in on her project.  Those spines look totally gross except for the right, particular child.  (I own 3 of the 4 and maybe the Veith book too.)

 

 

[Candid]

Personally if your goal is to give her some appreciation for history in general, you'd be wiser to focus in and design a study that focuses on one period or just a couple of events. If for instance you want to focus on the US, then spend a quarter study the Revolutionary War and the signing of the constitution, then the next quarter study the Civil War, and so forth. In each of those quarters do an in depth study. 

 

Trying to study all of history in year because she doesn't have retention is almost a sure prescription for continuing her lack of retention. 

[afruitfulbranch]

Yes, OhElizabeth,  that is what I was referring to.

About the research paper, it must be a typed 15 page research paper.  That is a graduation requirement for WCFS.

 

And thanks, Candid, for your admonishment and suggestion.

 

So here's a little more background and where we are since my post:

 

My daughter's areas I want to strengthen:

writing/communication

history comprehension, e.g. an overall understanding and ability to fit together, connect the dots, analyze historical people and events.

 

Her remaining graduation requirements:

1 credit Bible

1 credit English

15-page research paper

PE

Work Study

 

She does not need any more history or anymore elective credits for that matter.  So part of our plan is that her English credit will come from Historical literature and essays about what she is learning whether through reading or videos, etc.  The paper could also be on whatever topic in history interests her most, but right now she thinks that that would be harder that just writing about a topic that really interests her. 
 

She does already appreciate history and what she learned when we did MFW was retained so much more, obviously, than the Alpha Omega workbooks.  She also did retain some history from Str. of Civ. but the goal was to hurry and get done.  What she retained most was what she and her brother talked about, e.g. Hannibal, etc.  So, whatever she does, her brother and sister will likely do as well so that there will be discussion. 

 

I like the questions and notes in TQ so that's why I would like to include at least some of it.   Also, since she has at least some comprehension from SOC1 and more from Creation to the Greeks (MFW), I'm thinking that we'd just review what she has done, try to connect a few dots and spend more time on the rest of history, getting deep in just one time period.  I like your suggestion about the AOR3 and guest hollow, that site looks great .

 

In terms of getting English credits instead of History, I'm thinking the TQ questions would make good essay topics that will help with analyzing and she can also write about what interests her.

 

So, thanks Candid and OhElizabeth for your suggestions, they have been helping me process. 

[1Togo]

How about something like Starting Points from Cornerstone Curriculum, which would give her 1 credit in American History, 1 credit in Bible, and 1 credit in literature.  SP integrates the three subjects, so that may give you the connections, etc. that you want for history.  Your daughter could do work through SP this semester and then work on her 15 page research paper for the Spring semester.  Maybe something she has studied in SP could be the basis for the research paper.

 

I know this suggestion is a total departure from your TQ question, but we've been thinking through something similar.

 

[afruitfulbranch]

How about something like Starting Points from Cornerstone Curriculum, which would give her 1 credit in American History, 1 credit in Bible, and 1 credit in literature.  SP integrates the three subjects, so that may give you the connections, etc. that you want for history.  Your daughter could do work through SP this semester and then work on her 15 page research paper for the Spring semester.  Maybe something she has studied in SP could be the basis for the research paper.

 

I know this suggestion is a total departure from your TQ question, but we've been thinking through something similar.

Thanks!  I've never heard of it but I'll look into. Do they have modern history?  She did do Americ. Hist already with the Lifepacs at least, but she's never done modern world history.

 

And it's all laid out? (Well, I'll try to find it and then I can answer my own question!)

 

One of the main reasons I like TQ is its commentary so whatever I do, I will probably at least get one TQ guide to supplement. 

[1Togo]

Cornerstone Curriculum does have Modern History, but I wouldn't start with it.  Starting Points is the place to begin with Cornerstone.  You won't need to supplement with SP.  It is a full curriculum, but would be good for a one semester course.

 

If you are looking for Modern History, Sonlight has 20th Century History, King's Meadow has a lecture series on Modernity with corresponding print materials, and Classical Historian has Modern History as well.  All of these will be organized for you, and they are full-year courses.

 

As regards TruthQuest, I used the first guide, and I do think TQ will meet your goals except for literature/writing instruction.  TQ definitely has book suggestions, potential essay questions, but it doesn't have composition instruction.  If your daughter needs help in that area, you might look at IEW's "Windows to the World" for introductory lit analysis or "The Elegant Essay."  Both of those are one semester courses.

[afruitfulbranch]

Thanks for the suggestion.  Thinking through and responding to them has helped me to more precisely pinpoint what really is lacking and also to recognize some strengths.  She has the skills to write well (and yes, she did do Windows to the World) she just needs more practice and confidence.)

 

I think that I have probably been going through my typical it's-the-last-year-did-we-miss-anything syndrome.  I had that briefly before but somehow it has been a little different this time because I have not been satisfied with our recent get 'er done approach.  (It's one thing to do what you know to do and trust that it will go well -- as was the case with the first three.  They've all done well after high school and are doing what they wanted to do.  But this time homeschooling high school hasn't been what I've wanted/thought we needed but the Lord knows why our time has been limited, so I can still have confidence.) 

 

So, now that that is all recognized, we will do our best to fill in what gaps we can the best way we know how and trust the Lord for the rest.  We have put Him first, so I can have confidence in His promises that He will add the rest as we follow Him.

 

Ahhhh, schooling forever and still learning.....

 

Thanks all!

 

(What a nice feeling it gives me to hear my 23 year-old son teaching math to his 7 year-old sister using the same curriculum (updated) that he used at that age.)