Plug-in for German Online

[Susie in CA]

I just want to let you know that OSU German Online seems to be working very well. We are in German II. The boys just had their first tutoring session with OSU German Online and did very well. They seemed so grown-up!

 

Anyway, for those of you who wonder about German programs OSU German is a great option.

 

 

[Running the race]

My boys are in German II also this year. I'm not sure how much they are learning, but it has been a fairly painless way for them to learn German.

[nancy in nj]

Just want to chime in with our experience with German Online. My daughter completed German I and II and we were very pleased and definitely concurred with running the race about it being a fairly painless way to learn German. Her junior year, she took German III. I can't tell you how disappointed we were!! Not only did she not learn anything new, she actually lost quite a bit of the Grammar that she had mastered in German II. The emphasis was on useless busywork (for example: Write an alphabet poem with a common theme e.g., list the names of animals alphabetically).I almost lost it the day that we had to buy construction paper for a "make a book" project, and they actually gave explicit instructions on how to punch holes in the paper and string yarn through to make a book! Seriously, great preschool project but German III. My daughter's plan was to sit for the German II SAT II in June of her Junior year....we bought test prep material and the real blue book practice tests and she seriously could not even begin to take that test...not even close. This is an AP National Scholar with 3 other SAT II's north of 700, so this is a kid who was a successful standardized test-taker. The whole point of outsourcing German was for her to place out of the college language requirement (based on the rave reviews I had read here over the years).

 

My personal theory is that over the last 5 years German Online has grown significantly with a large influx of state virtual school programs (e.g., North Carolina) and that they have dumbed down the program accordingly. I don't believe that the German III program my daughter suffered through could have possibly been the same caliber program that it was years ago.

 

There is a happy ending in that my daughter elected to self-study German IV using several grammar and vocab resources and she was able to place into the 4th semester german based on our state flagship's placement test which satisfied the 3 semester proficiency requirement. In hindsight, she felt that the additional materials she used would have prepared her for the SAT II had she self-studied German III.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Nancy,

Thanks for the German III feedback. I may have to skim through some of those lessons while we're still in German II.

[quark]

Just want to chime in with our experience with German Online. My daughter completed German I and II and we were very pleased and definitely concurred with running the race about it being a fairly painless way to learn German. Her junior year, she took German III. I can't tell you how disappointed we were!! Not only did she not learn anything new, she actually lost quite a bit of the Grammar that she had mastered in German II. The emphasis was on useless busywork (for example: Write an alphabet poem with a common theme e.g., list the names of animals alphabetically).I almost lost it the day that we had to buy construction paper for a "make a book" project, and they actually gave explicit instructions on how to punch holes in the paper and string yarn through to make a book! Seriously, great preschool project but German III. My daughter's plan was to sit for the German II SAT II in June of her Junior year....we bought test prep material and the real blue book practice tests and she seriously could not even begin to take that test...not even close. This is an AP National Scholar with 3 other SAT II's north of 700, so this is a kid who was a successful standardized test-taker. The whole point of outsourcing German was for her to place out of the college language requirement (based on the rave reviews I had read here over the years).

 

My personal theory is that over the last 5 years German Online has grown significantly with a large influx of state virtual school programs (e.g., North Carolina) and that they have dumbed down the program accordingly. I don't believe that the German III program my daughter suffered through could have possibly been the same caliber program that it was years ago.

 

There is a happy ending in that my daughter elected to self-study German IV using several grammar and vocab resources and she was able to place into the 4th semester german based on our state flagship's placement test which satisfied the 3 semester proficiency requirement. In hindsight, she felt that the additional materials she used would have prepared her for the SAT II had she self-studied German III.

 

Thank you very much for this Nancy! This is distressing news! DS is now in German II. I feel German II to be a little too light too (but he is only in the second chapter atm).

 

May I ask what the resources were? I think they allow you to preview the course for a few weeks before paying right? I'll probably have to take a look before committing too.

 

BTW, DS enjoyed German I and is enjoying German II so far. I've found it to be okay, not super high quality. What bugs me sometimes is that the solutions key can be wrong and I think they haven't been proofread. I'm trying to remember examples from German I and can't. I know that so far with German II, I found diagrams with arrows pointing to objects that needed to be labeled using the German nouns...arrows in the worksheets pointed to different things vs the solution sheet (might be a typesetting issue because each arrow in the key points to something just above/ below the arrow in the worksheet). Mentioning it so that others are made aware.

 

If German III is so much review, has anyone had luck skipping directly to German IV?

 

 

[nancy in nj]

It's not so much that German III is a repeat of German II, it is far inferior to German II. In fact, I remember my daughter complaining that the call no longer consisted of conversing in German but merely consisted of the instructor going over her worksheet answers...really? The main component of the class was reading German plays, books etc which my daughter could not even begin to read/understand despite having high A's in German I and II. When she asked for assistance during the phone calls on multiple occasions, their response was to direct her to specific pages where the worksheet answers could be found and told her that she just needed to try to figure out key points to fill in the worksheet when they should have (imo) been going through some of the text with her to get a feel for what holes in her learning needed to be remedied.

 

Reading the German IV syllabus, the format of the class/content is similar to German III and there is a huge disconnect with German II. Seriously, the only way I could imagine gaining anything useful from German III or IV is if you hire a tutor and then German Online would still not be adding any value to the process at all unless you enjoy drawing pictures, creating elementary-school level poems and revisiting preschool bookmaking. I would suggest looking at either the Potters School or Landry for German III--it would have to be an improvement.

 

I will find her college application course descriptions and copy it into a separate post for those of you who are interested.

[nancy in nj]

Here's what she used to self-teach/review German IV:

 

German IV: This course builds upon German I-III. It includes a systematic and comprehensive review of grammar and vocabulary. This course includes listening to the German language broadcasts Radio D, Warum Nicht and Wieso Nicht; reading selections from German periodicals and poetry, and reading comprehension selections from Deutsche Interactive. Topics covered include: vocabulary (word formation, adjectival nouns, animals, colloquial expressions and idioms, post office and bank, expressions of time, travelling/airport and parts of a car) and grammar (comparative and superlative, da and wo compounds, passive voice, zu with infinitives, subjunctive conditional, other uses of subjunctive, present participle, ais ob/ais wenn, future perfect)

 

Texts and other resources: Deutsche Welle online German tutorials, Deutsche Interactive website, German Demystified and German Grammar Drills by Ed Swick, Mastering German Vocabulary by Gabriele Forst et al., various periodicals and poems.

 

Note: Deustche Welle lists German I-V...German online had a different scope/sequence so she studied the topics in German II-V that hadn't been covered by German Online I and II. There was very little/if anything that she learned in German III that allowed her to check items off the Deutsche Welle content list! In practice, she did not spend nearly as much time as planned on the listening/reading component due to the other demands of senior year. If I had to do it over again, this would have been done over 2 years for German III and IV, giving full attention to the listening/reading components.

[quark]

Vielen Dank Nancy! :)

So very helpful!

[Joan in GE]

I have to agree, and have said it before, that we weren't as happy with German III and IV as with I and II. The materials in IV are not all by the same author and are not all integrated. And I've complained about the reading selections as well....

 

What I still think good about I and II are that they are multisensory - and get the students speaking German in a painless way. I don't know how many Genevan public school children detest learning and speaking German whereas mine were quite happy learning it and practicing speaking it. To me, that is the first important hurdle. Without that mental block, I think it is easier to make progress later.

 

Even if I had to do it over again, we'd probably use III and IV just because I know almost no German and could not really provide oversight AND in spite of all the complaints, it provided a solid base for dd. She just spent 5 weeks in Germany and said that she could communicate properly about most things. There were a few topics where she had trouble but in general she was quite at ease and spoke almost no English.

 

Whether she would pass the SAT II at this point, I can't say. My impression of the German SAT II from In the Great White North is that the German SAT II is quite difficult (I think and hope I'm remembering that correctly - maybe she can chime in). AP foreign languages are now much more geared towards cultural understanding and they don't count grammar and spelling mistakes as seriously as the previous AP's for foreign language..I think because they want people to have a different approach to languages.....

 

Dd was able to do 4 levels in 3 years and is now starting AP German. She had done Rosetta Stone earlier on...and now she's spent time in Germany...which aren't part of everyone's experience...and she has a very positive attitude about learning the language and some German friends (but they don't speak to her in German since they're practicing their English)......

 

Joan

[Susie in CA]

Wow, that's so sad to hear about German III and IV. I'll have to look into this some more.

 

Also, I am very disappointed in foreign language studies in general. I do not want to primarily learn about culture when I choose a language to study. Of course, you do and should learn about culture, however, the main focus is to learn the language first. Once you know enough of the language you will learn about the culture as you read literature from that culture. It just irks me that the focus is so wrong. This is one of the reasons why most kids graduate and are unable to use whatever language they learn.

 

Anyway, thank you Nancy for your feedback.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So has anyone been giving feedback to German Online about the course(s).

 

I've found some dead links and typos in German 1 and 2. But I've only been so so about giving feedback. I will have to be more persistent in pointing out spelling errors.

[quark]

So has anyone been giving feedback to German Online about the course(s).

 

I've found some dead links and typos in German 1 and 2. But I've only been so so about giving feedback. I will have to be more persistent in pointing out spelling errors.

 

Kiddo made embarrassingly frequent phone calls when he was doing German I. But we just moved on and didn't follow up to see if they had corrected the materials.

[EKS]

Has anyone here considered the Oregon State University online German courses?  Any opinions?  I'm wanting a rigorous online German option for my son in two years and these caught my eye.

[Joan in GE]

I do not want to primarily learn about culture when I choose a language to study. Of course, you do and should learn about culture, however, the main focus is to learn the language first. Once you know enough of the language you will learn about the culture as you read literature from that culture. It just irks me that the focus is so wrong.

 

Sorry I wasn't more explicit about what I meant about AP foreign languages being geared towards 'cultural' learning....(I know this only from preparing for the AP French Language and Culture audit last year)...

 

It is much more than knowing cultural information...Their meaning of culture for the AP exam is giving a brief oral presentation, having an oral recorded conversation, writing a short persuasive essay, as well as answering questions, etc. besides all the cultural knowledge of the arts, sciences, etc, etc...(at a somewhat superficial level but I found a lot of useful information that would help people understand the culture if they traveled there). I find it much more realistic than the old AP (which ds3 and ds1 did)....

 

I was in the old school for French lessons with lots of repetition in high school (2 years) and college (2 years) and when I went to a French speaking country as an au pair - I could not speak French! I knew lots about conjugation and some grammar, etc, but not how to communicate with people.

 

So my daughter is doing miles ahead of me already with high school level German - to me that is much more important than doing well on a SAT exam...If one can't communicate with people in the country, then all those lessons did no good. And the kids in the public school here who are studying German from 3rd to 9th grade might know more irregular verbs than dd, but their fluency tends to be inferior.

 

That's what I was trying to explain about not having perfect spelling and grammar - it is considered less important than getting the overall meaning and being able to speak even when you don't know every word that is said to you. One thing they try to teach nowadays is how to derive meaning even when you don't know everything that is said but not getting completely lost...And then there are the problems of not getting along in a culture because a student has just learned the words but nothing about cultural roots....

 

:-)

 

 

I wouldn't call OSU (Oklahoma) rigorous if that's what you are looking for...but it has encouraged independence in German for quite a reasonable price....

 

Oh yes, one problem with German III was that it was not clear that the student had to turn in some of the assignments, even when they were discussed in the Skype sessions - in case any of yours are wondering whether they need to turn in the lessons...

 

HTH,

Joan

[Susie in CA]

Joan,

 

If one can't communicate with people in the country, then all those lessons did no good.

 

Your statement above in blue I totally agree with. I think you are right that typical foreign language students are not able to use the language they studied. I think this happens much more in the US then in Europe. I grew up in Europe. I also think this happens for more then one reason.

 

1. Most kids in the US study a language for 2 years. Simply not long enough to really stick.

2. Most kids start to study a foreign language very late; highschool. Sometimes they start in middle school, but this is usually inconsistent. In highschool the language may or may not be the same.

3. Many feel that switching languages is just fine and still beneficial. I completely disagree on this. Once you start you keep on with it. My kids are allowed to add a language, but not drop one.

4. Way to little practice speaking and that includes speaking in the classroom as well as when one travels.

5. Too much focus on cultural studies. By that I mean things you would otherwise learn in a Geography class. Cultural Study is fine, but it needs to happen in the language one is learning not in English.

 

What I look for in foreign language study isn't rigor as much as consistency. I want to always have that language on my schedule to study. That is, in my experience, the only way to make it stick. We are not studying for the SAT really; I am with you Joan; we want to be able to communicate.

 

Anyway, off my soap box now. :-) Back to OSU German....What I currently like about the program the most is that they speak with someone other than myself in German. I suppose we will re-evaluate what to do next year.

 

Now, on to studying.....

 

 

[nancy in nj]

I absolutely agree that OSU German Online's strength is in the weekly phone calls/conversational components. Unfortunately, that aspect did fall apart in German III. I remember reading on here that some of the WTM kids had formed an online Skype study/conversation group, and I think that having a group to work with/speak to would be a great way to supplement German Online's German III/IV, the kids could even read the reading assignments aloud together to make sure everyone understands which would have helped my daughter tremendously.

 

I spoke to my daughter yesterday, and she said that in hindsight the reason she could not even attempt the German II SAT II was that there was word forms or a verb case that was not taught in German III that was stressed heavily on the SAT II (and the college placement test). She didn't recall exactly but she self-learned itSenior year, so it had to be on this list:

 

Comparative and superlative, da and wo compounds, passive voice, zu with infinitives, subjunctive conditional, other uses of subjunctive, present participle, ais ob/ais wenn, future perfect

[aggieamy]

I am working with a little so there's no way I know if this is a good long term solution or not but I've been very pleased with Duolingo for learning German.  As an added bonus it's almost completely hands off for the parent/teacher.  I did have to explain things like conjugating verbs but for the rest she does it on her own. 

[quark]

So far for German I and II we have not been doing the speaking sessions because when we did try it for German I, the quality depended too much on the person on the other end. I don't know whether it was because they know my son is younger...but they were mostly speaking to him in English! It was frustrating! I suggested he keep pressing on and speak about other things in German but time was limited (they only did it for 5 minutes, maybe 10 at most?) and they ended the call before son could include more. In the end, it was totally not productive to keep that 15 minute slot free when I could easily do it with him at home. There was only one session that I can remember that was really good and that was with Sabine. We should probably try to sign up for the Skype sessions again...hopefully, they've improved the quality now.

[nancy in nj]

I wouldn't count on the quality of the phone conversations improving. I remember maybe 5 years ago, folks on here raving about the 1 hour phone calls their students had directly with Sabine. Those were the rave reviews I relied on when choosing German Online. That was when they treated individual homeschoolers the same as the highschool classes they were dealing with! The results were incredibly impressive back then....it almost seems like homeschoolers just get shoved in with whomever is available these days. I would bet that they assign a specific individual to the weekly school session.

 

We have no skin in this game anymore, but you guys with kids in German II this year should show this thread to Sabine. Perhaps she could arrange a weekly 1 hour homeschool group review session via. Skype. Now, it might necessitate more of a fixed weekly schedule with the work so that the kids are all on the same page, but this might go a long, long way to getting German Online closer to the level of excellence it was 5 years ago.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have had pretty good results with making the call myself and telling the instructor what I think they need to work on. There were times when the call was very short. I would call back and say that I wanted speaking practice to fill the block.

 

I would not want a homeschool group call. I have enough trouble scheduling without trying to fit a block that fits other students. And right now my 2 kids split 15 minutes. An hour block with even 10 kids would give them less time speaking and being corrected.

[Joan in GE]

I wouldn't count on the quality of the phone conversations improving. I remember maybe 5 years ago, folks on here raving about the 1 hour phone calls their students had directly with Sabine. Those were the rave reviews I relied on when choosing German Online. That was when they treated individual homeschoolers the same as the highschool classes they were dealing with! The results were incredibly impressive back then....it almost seems like homeschoolers just get shoved in with whomever is available these days. I would bet that they assign a specific individual to the weekly school session.

 

We have no skin in this game anymore, but you guys with kids in German II this year should show this thread to Sabine. Perhaps she could arrange a weekly 1 hour homeschool group review session via. Skype. Now, it might necessitate more of a fixed weekly schedule with the work so that the kids are all on the same page, but this might go a long, long way to getting German Online closer to the level of excellence it was 5 years ago.

 

I think that as the program got more popular, more and more people wanted Sabine since she is the lone German native (to my knowledge)...but since she only has so many hours in a day, she has since had to focus on AP students....

 

While early on my dc could get her, later on we had to be satisfied with others...

 

It is not perfect but when I compare what I could get for the same price here - it is still worth it....

 

Joan

[Joan in GE]

Joan,

 

If one can't communicate with people in the country, then all those lessons did no good.

 

Your statement above in blue I totally agree with. I think you are right that typical foreign language students are not able to use the language they studied. I think this happens much more in the US then in Europe. I grew up in Europe. I also think this happens for more then one reason.

 

1. Most kids in the US study a language for 2 years. Simply not long enough to really stick.

2. Most kids start to study a foreign language very late; highschool. Sometimes they start in middle school, but this is usually inconsistent. In highschool the language may or may not be the same.

3. Many feel that switching languages is just fine and still beneficial. I completely disagree on this. Once you start you keep on with it. My kids are allowed to add a language, but not drop one.

4. Way to little practice speaking and that includes speaking in the classroom as well as when one travels.

5. Too much focus on cultural studies. By that I mean things you would otherwise learn in a Geography class. Cultural Study is fine, but it needs to happen in the language one is learning not in English.

 

What I look for in foreign language study isn't rigor as much as consistency. I want to always have that language on my schedule to study. That is, in my experience, the only way to make it stick. We are not studying for the SAT really; I am with you Joan; we want to be able to communicate.

 

Anyway, off my soap box now. :-) Back to OSU German....What I currently like about the program the most is that they speak with someone other than myself in German. I suppose we will re-evaluate what to do next year.

 

Now, on to studying.....

 

Good points!

 

I am working with a little so there's no way I know if this is a good long term solution or not but I've been very pleased with Duolingo for learning German.  As an added bonus it's almost completely hands off for the parent/teacher.  I did have to explain things like conjugating verbs but for the rest she does it on her own. 

Amy! (don't want to derail the thread but I hope you are doing better than I am about veggies for breakfast! summer was downhill :-)

 

I have tried other German materials pre high school but then when it came to older kids, I wanted to make sure that there was a progression which was at least similar to what is covered for a 'typical' language class and someone who spoke in German with dc. I'm not sure that Duolingo doesn't do the first - just saying why I ended up going to OSU - I wanted to be able to put German I, etc, without inventing it...But I think programs like Duolingo, etc are great for reinforcement, etc...

 

Joan

[nancy in nj]

I just realize that the site that my dd used as a roadmap for the Grammar/Vocabulary part of German IV was not in our course description noted above.

 

http://ielanguages.com/German.html

[aggieamy]

Good points!

 

Amy! (don't want to derail the thread but I hope you are doing better than I am about veggies for breakfast! summer was downhill :-)

 

I have tried other German materials pre high school but then when it came to older kids, I wanted to make sure that there was a progression which was at least similar to what is covered for a 'typical' language class and someone who spoke in German with dc. I'm not sure that Duolingo doesn't do the first - just saying why I ended up going to OSU - I wanted to be able to put German I, etc, without inventing it...But I think programs like Duolingo, etc are great for reinforcement, etc...

 

Joan

 

I was hoping that OSU German would be great for DD when we get to that point but we aren't there yet.  I'm just trying to give her some sort of start on the language so she'll be familiar with some vocab/sentence structure/verb conjugations by the time we get there.  :)

[at the beach]

I was hoping that OSU German would be great for DD when we get to that point but we aren't there yet. I'm just trying to give her some sort of start on the language so she'll be familiar with some vocab/sentence structure/verb conjugations by the time we get there. :)

We have used OSU for my 16 yo. She did level 1. It was okay for her. She wanted a more grammar-based approach and is now taking German with Rolling Acres. She loves RA. It is an excellent rigorous course IMO.

 

My 8th grader is using OSU German 1 this year. For her, OSU is going well. I do not think OSU is as rigorous as Rolling Acres but that does not mean it is not a decent option. As Joan said, for the $, it is really well worth it. With any foreign language program, it helps to add in reading, watching films, and talking to others. I have German background, so that has been helpful.

[Joan in GE]

I just realize that the site that my dd used as a roadmap for the Grammar/Vocabulary part of German IV was not in our course description noted above.

 

http://ielanguages.com/German.html

 

Looks quite useful and easy to use.

 

I was hoping that OSU German would be great for DD when we get to that point but we aren't there yet.  I'm just trying to give her some sort of start on the language so she'll be familiar with some vocab/sentence structure/verb conjugations by the time we get there.  :)

 

I think it's a very good idea to do that :-)!

 

Joan

[quark]

I just realize that the site that my dd used as a roadmap for the Grammar/Vocabulary part of German IV was not in our course description noted above.

 

http://ielanguages.com/German.html

 

I really appreciate this. Thank you Nancy!

 

[Joan in GE]

Susie, since this is a fairly important discussion about OSU German, could you tag this thread eg German, OSU German, German online - there are probably others I can't think of at the moment? (go back to first post and edit and you'll have the option of putting in tags)...

 

Thanks!

Joan

 

[Susie in CA]

Susie, since this is a fairly important discussion about OSU German, could you tag this thread eg German, OSU German, German online - there are probably others I can't think of at the moment? (go back to first post and edit and you'll have the option of putting in tags)...

 

Thanks!

Joan

Done!

 

First time I did that. :-) Guess, I should consider tagging more often.

[Joan in GE]

Done!

 

First time I did that. :-) Guess, I should consider tagging more often.

 

Great!

 

Yes - it's not hard and makes find topics a lot easier...

 

Thanks!

Joan