Online school is not homeschool?

[TraceyS/FL]

I have lived thru the experience where the distinction is important, and saw how HARD it is for those not in the "homeschooling community" to make the distinctions between the differences.

It actually made me sad that 3 lawyers and 1 judge had such a difficult time with the concept.

 

My kids were NEVER home schooled, yet I fought a fight in my divorce over homeschooling. 

My kids were private school students, receiving their education at home. A valid, legal option in the state of Florida.

 

My own lawyer kept telling me it didn't matter - the judge would see it as homeschooling. I was flabbergasted at that.... but she was right.

So as of right now, I have 2 private school students and 1 public school at home student. Yet once again, everyone keeps saying, "They are home schooled."

Upholding the distinction is important, it is a slippery slope to change the law. The freedom to traditionally homeschool has been long fought before me, and it is important to uphold that right. Using the proper terms to "outsiders" is important to keep that right protected.

That said, I am teaching my Connections Academy student.... they provided me with detailed lesson plans and tell me what to say to her. She does not get all of her instruction online... BUT, she has a teacher, and I am her Learning Coach. Our experience has been positive the last 3 weeks with it.... and she tells everyone she is doing "virtual school".

[kitten18]

I didn't read the whole thread.

 

 

We do homeSTUDY through a local charter school. I know there is a legal difference between homestudy and homeschool but I'm not going to go into an explanation for every random person I talk to. If some legal homeSCHOOLER wants to follow me around and make sure to explain the difference, go for it.

 

 

I have never hear of a homeschool group in my area that excludes homestudy students. They are all thrilled to have more members for activities.

[yobella]

It matters in FL in regards to sports.  The FHSAA rules are something like using an umbrella school that issues a transcript/diploma and is registered with the state of FL makes you ineligible to play sports for public or private schools as a home schooler.  But if you use FLVS it's okay, or if you use an umbrella school that is out of state you are still eligible to play.  Something like that.  The rules are in place to prevent recruiting, and keeping the playing field fair. 

 

 

[Ellie]

I didn't read the whole thread.

 

 

We do homeSTUDY through a local charter school. I know there is a legal difference between homestudy and homeschool but I'm not going to go into an explanation for every random person I talk to. If some legal homeSCHOOLER wants to follow me around and make sure to explain the difference, go for it.

 

 

I have never hear of a homeschool group in my area that excludes homestudy students. They are all thrilled to have more members for activities.

 

Well, no, there isn't a legal difference between homestudy and homeschool. o_0 There is a difference between public school students (whose classrooms happen to look like their own homes) and private or homeschooled students.

 

If your dc is enrolled in a local home-based charter school, then she is a public school student. 

 

And I wouldn't explain to every random person, either; I'd just say she's enrolled in a charter school. Homeschoolers who want to follow you around and make sure you know the difference between public school at home and homeschooling should be given a :chillpill: .

[kitten18]

Well, no, there isn't a legal difference between homestudy and homeschool. o_0 There is a difference between public school students (whose classrooms happen to look like their own homes) and private or homeschooled students.

 

If your dc is enrolled in a local home-based charter school, then she is a public school student.

 

And I wouldn't explain to every random person, either; I'd just say she's enrolled in a charter school. Homeschoolers who want to follow you around and make sure you know the difference between public school at home and homeschooling should be given a :chillpill: .

Huh? Yes there's a difference. Homestudy is the public school option.

 

I don't say my children to to xxx charter school because they don't. They are enrolled there but they don't go to school there.

[maize]

Well, no, there isn't a legal difference between homestudy and homeschool. o_0 There is a difference between public school students (whose classrooms happen to look like their own homes) and private or homeschooled students.

 

If your dc is enrolled in a local home-based charter school, then she is a public school student.

 

And I wouldn't explain to every random person, either; I'd just say she's enrolled in a charter school. Homeschoolers who want to follow you around and make sure you know the difference between public school at home and homeschooling should be given a :chillpill: .

Ellie, some schools have been providing home study programs for decades, I believe the language is written into the legal codes in some places. It is a legitimate term used in many instances to describe learning that is supervised by a public or private school but happens at home.

[Ellie]

Ellie, some schools have been providing home study programs for decades, I believe the language is written into the legal codes in some places. It is a legitimate term used in many instances to describe learning that is supervised by a public or private school but happens at home.

 

It is a term that will be confusing to *most people,* as it can be used to describe either home study done privately, i.e., the parents have enrolled their children in something like Calvert or CLASS, and they still have to comply with any homeschool laws, or the parents have enrolled their children in a public school program of some kind and they don't have to comply with any homeschool laws.

[Ellie]

Huh? Yes there's a difference. Homestudy is the public school option.

 

I don't say my children to to xxx charter school because they don't. They are enrolled there but they don't go to school there.

 

In most states, a charter school can either have a campus where children physically attend each day, or it can be Internet-based (or other more traditional learning with textbooks and whatnot), where the learning is done at home. Notice that I didn't say that you should tell people that your dc *goes to* a charter school but that she is *enrolled in* a charter school. Most people will not understand the difference between "home study" and "home school," whereas they will understand that a charter school is a public school.

[kitten18]

In most states, a charter school can either have a campus where children physically attend each day, or it can be Internet-based (or other more traditional learning with textbooks and whatnot), where the learning is done at home. Notice that I didn't say that you should tell people that your dc *goes to* a charter school but that she is *enrolled in* a charter school. Most people will not understand the difference between "home study" and "home school," whereas they will understand that a charter school is a public school.

 

So not only can I not say that we "homeschool", I shouldn't even say that we do a "homestudy" program (which is what we do)?

 

Sorry, my life is complicated enough without having to having to explain the legalities of homeschooling to other people.

 

 

People ask, "Where do your children go to school"?

Me, "They go to school at HOME". (because they do)

 

They don't say, "Where are your children enrolled in school"? :confused1:   That would be odd.

[Jean in Newcastle]

So not only can I not say that we "homeschool", I shouldn't even say that we do a "homestudy" program (which is what we do)?

 

Sorry, my life is complicated enough without having to having to explain the legalities of homeschooling to other people.

 

 

People ask, "Where do your children go to school"?

Me, "They go to school at HOME". (because they do)

 

They don't say, "Where are your children enrolled in school"? :confused1:   That would be odd.

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I was referring to was when people asked about how to homeschool and people told them how to sign up for a homestudy program of some kind.  I have no problem with someone saying this is how you homeschool (and give the legal requirements) but some people also choose do a virtual school and this is how we (or they) do that. And I have no problem how you want to answer the "where do your kids go to school" question!

[Um_2_4]

I actually like the way it is set up here in CA, because no government official can step in and decide to change the homeschooling requirements(which I have heard of happening in some other states), because there are none.

Your child either goes to Public (traditional b&m,online or charter)paid for by taxes or Private (b&m or online) paid for by you. Clear and simple.

Any parent that doesn't want to open their own private school (really not hard) can pay a fee and enroll in a private school of their choice (sometimes called umbrella schools) that offers "independent study" (otherwise known as homeschooling, basically they file the paperwork for you and you go about your merry business).

I run a private school, and government has no business in my private school. Private schools are big business here, so I don't see any changes coming to private school requirements.

(CA does have one option for qualified tutor (basically a certified teacher in the grades subject being taught) with hour requirements, but I have never heard of anyone using it here in the support groups. I think this was designed with the film/movie industry in mind?)

[Ellie]

So not only can I not say that we "homeschool", I shouldn't even say that we do a "homestudy" program (which is what we do)?

 

Sorry, my life is complicated enough without having to having to explain the legalities of homeschooling to other people.

 

 

People ask, "Where do your children go to school"?

Me, "They go to school at HOME". (because they do)

 

They don't say, "Where are your children enrolled in school"? :confused1:   That would be odd.

 

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm puzzled as to why you seem so hostile.

 

Several of us have gone to great lengths to try to help y'all understand the difference between children enrolled in public school programs, who are legally considered public school students, and children who are not, who are legally considered homeschooled students (or private school students, depending on the laws of the state where they live). We have not made judgements on people's choices; we have only tried to painstakingly explain the difference, because it matters.

 

What I said to you was that in general, people you are having casual conversations with will not understand the difference between "a home study program" and "homeschool." If you don't want to explain the difference, that's fine. It is not necessary to have in-depth conversations with random people on the street, and it is why I suggested that it might be better to say that your dc is enrolled in a charter school. You really seem not to have read what I actually wrote and are taking issue with it anyway. That's ok. Perhaps this conversation is not for you but for people to whom it will matter, for whom there will be problems with school officials or grandparents or other homeschoolers who do not understand the difference between public-school-at-home and homeschooling, or who themselves do not understand the difference.

[kitten18]

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm puzzled as to why you seem so hostile.

 

Several of us have gone to great lengths to try to help y'all understand the difference between children enrolled in public school programs, who are legally considered public school students, and children who are not, who are legally considered homeschooled students (or private school students, depending on the laws of the state where they live). We have not made judgements on people's choices; we have only tried to painstakingly explain the difference, because it matters.

 

What I said to you was that in general, people you are having casual conversations with will not understand the difference between "a home study program" and "homeschool." If you don't want to explain the difference, that's fine. It is not necessary to have in-depth conversations with random people on the street, and it is why I suggested that it might be better to say that your dc is enrolled in a charter school. You really seem not to have read what I actually wrote and are taking issue with it anyway. That's ok. Perhaps this conversation is not for you but for people to whom it will matter, for whom there will be problems with school officials or grandparents or other homeschoolers who do not understand the difference between public-school-at-home and homeschooling, or who themselves do not understand the difference.

 

I am not hostile. 

 

In CA (and I keep coming back to that because it's where I live and I know you lived here at one time) there are 4 legal ways to "homeschool".

 

From California Homeschool Network fact sheet:

 

→ State law requires all children between the ages of 6 and 18 to be enrolled in a public school,

unless they are attending a "full-time, private day school" or being instructed by a private tutor who

holds a valid California teaching certificate. (California Education Code §48222)

→ This allows homeschooling parents four options:

 1. Establish a home-based private school

 2. Enroll in a private school that offers independent study or PSP

 3. Enroll in a public school that offers independent study or charter school

 4. Utilize a credentialed tutor - or the parent, if so qualified

 

http://californiahomeschool.net/howTo/pdf/CHNJTF2012_13.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

A link to another CA homeschool organization in case there is something wrong with CHN

 

http://www.hsc.org/homeschoolinghelp/brief-legal-information.html

[Ameena]

This will probably get me flamed, but here is my take. There are a lot of school at home programs, but not all are homeschooling {even if they call themselves that}. I am on the more conservative side of the definitions, but here goes.

 

1. Homeschooling - no {or very little} funding from outside the parental unit. No supervision or testing except as required by your state. No outside grading of work. Parental unit makes 100% of the decisions about what to use, how to teach, and when to school. Does NOT need to be done 100% at home. May or may not choose to enroll a child for an occasional co-op class or online class as needed, but primary education is done by parent {more than 50% of education}.

 

2. Public School at Home - programs like K12, TTISD, Calvert {when done through a PS program}, charters, etc. Paid for in full or mostly in full by PS funding - no parental funding except for perhaps fees / extras. Requires state testing if required of ps students in your state. Parental unit makes little or no decisions about what is used or when to school. Issues diploma / report card from school.

 

3. PRIVATE school at home - K12, Seton, OLRS, Abeka Academy, BJU, SOS, etc Paid for by parental unit primarily, may have some funding from government as well. Parent makes slightly more decision about what to teach, how, etc but tests / work is graded by OUTSIDE entity from school or work graded by parent must be reported to school. May or may not require testing. Often called homeschooling. Issues diploma / report card from school.

 

4. CO-OP schooling - again often called homeschooling, but really is more of a private school setting IMO. Often run through hsing groups, but parents send children 2-5 days per week to co-op where they are taught by educator from outside family unit. I am making a distinction here between parents who send their child for a couple of classes vs. the entire years teaching provided by co-op & merely supplemented by family unit. Only the 2nd group would be considered co-op schooling IMO. Classes {at least here} are often taught by either certified teachers or seasoned homeschool parents who have experience in the area taught.

 

5. Hybrid schooling - a mix of 2 {or more} of the above, where the parent provides less than 50% of the primary instruction as defined in #1 above.

 

 

As for homeschooling groups, I think all but #2 above should be allowed to participate. #2 possibly IF THERE IS ROOM & everyone is okay with it.

[Ellie]

Yes, I homeschooled in California, starting in 1982 in San Diego. I left CA in 2004, after having owned/administered a PSP for 16 years in San Jose.

 

I am familiar with both CHN and HSC. I was slightly involved with HSC when it was Northern California Homeschool Association (Homeschool Associates of Northern California? I forget--that was 20 yeas ago, lol), before CHN broke off in the early 90s.

 

Yes, that distinction does exist. There is a difference between homeschooling under the private school option and enrolling the children in a public school ISP or charter school. Public school officials are well aware of that distinction. It's too bad that CHN doesn't include the information that HSLDA does: "Under this option, the child is a public school student and has to abide by the rules and policy of the public school.Cal. Educ. Code §51745." Note the inclusion of the Education Code. Section 48222 exempts a student from public school attendance if he is enrolled in a private school which has complied with Section 53190 (details the filing of an affidavit).

 

Even the  information you quoted says, "Enroll in a public school that offers independent study or charter school." That is exactly what I've been saying. "Public school." Notice that there are actually only three options: enroll the children in a private school; enroll them in a public school; have them tutored full-time by a credentialed teacher. On paper, it doesn't matter whether the private school is one which a parent establishes herself by filing her own affidavit or one which is administered by someone else who files the affidavit; the court case a few years ago recognized the fact that it is legal for parents to file their own affidavits or to enroll in a private school which only enrolls homeschooled students (Private School Satellite Program).

 

Again, please notice that I did not say that parents who enroll their children in a home-based charter school (or ISP...charter schools are now more common than ISPs) are not "homeschooling." I have repeatedly said that there is a legal difference--a distinction--between enrolling one's children in a public school program and teaching one's children at home under the state's homeschool (or private school) laws.

[school17777]

3. PRIVATE school at home - K12, Seton, OLRS, Abeka Academy, BJU, SOS, etc Paid for by parental unit primarily, may have some funding from government as well. Parent makes slightly more decision about what to teach, how, etc but tests / work is graded by OUTSIDE entity from school or work graded by parent must be reported to school. May or may not require testing. Often called homeschooling. Issues diploma / report card from school.

 

 

If you buy K12 as an individual, you are supplied with curriculum just as if you were to buy curriculum from Rainbow Resource.  There is no one teaching for you, no one grading the tests, no reporting or anything.  Some of the curriculum is on-line, some hard/paper books, and other supplies.  There is an option to enroll in an academy were there is a teacher available, but just because someone buys K12 it does not mean they are enrolled in the academy.

[idnib]

I actually like the way it is set up here in CA, because no government official can step in and decide to change the homeschooling requirements(which I have heard of happening in some other states), because there are none.

 

 

Yep, I'm really happy to be running a private school with two teachers and one student, set up in 15 minutes with the state form, all online.

[Ameena]

If you buy K12 as an individual, you are supplied with curriculum just as if you were to buy curriculum from Rainbow Resource.  There is no one teaching for you, no one grading the tests, no reporting or anything.  Some of the curriculum is on-line, some hard/paper books, and other supplies.  There is an option to enroll in an academy were there is a teacher available, but just because someone buys K12 it does not mean they are enrolled in the academy.

 

Thanks for the clarification - I meant the academy version. Didn't realize there was a difference in the self-pay versions as I'd never heard of it before.

[school17777]

If a child is enrolled in a government-funded school, he is a public school student, regardless of where his classroom is, and so he is by definition not a homeschooled student, whether that particular state has a homeschool statute (such as, oh, Arizona, or Pennsylvania, or Virginia), or a court case (such as California, Texas, and Illinois), or nothing at all (such as New Jersey), whether the state says he's a homeschooled student or a private school student. Public school officials know this--they are, after all, getting money for each of these children; parents need to know it, as well.

 

 

This is not true for PA.  PA law does not mention the words homeschooling or homeschooler.  The legal term is Home Education.  So legally in PA, a child enrolled in a gov't funded school can be referred to as a homeschooler.

[Desert Strawberry]

Again, this would be an issue not of K12, but of the virtual charter school (because remember that the students are enrolled in the public school, not K12). Some group leaders believe the resources of the group should go to helping private homeschoolers, not public school students, who presumably have the resources of the public school available to them.

 

And if "K12 started here last year," then isn't that a virtual public school program? In many states, government-funded virtual schools are charter schools. You can live anywhere and buy K12 yourself, the same way that you'd buy BJUP or KONOS or MFW or whatever.

 

 

Yes, here, K12 is a virtual public school. I'm not sure if it's a charter, or if Louisiana law allows charter schools at this time. There is a similar program in a neighboring parish, but it does not go by the "charter" name, and there seems to be some legal maneuvering right now having to do with that designation. 

 

I had one member of my small group who was enrolled in K12 for the first bit of K, but after talking with me and another mom who had dropped out of K12, she dropped out, too, and is now just homeschooling. Legally, we don't report until age 7, so she isn't required to report yet, I don't think. 

 

I didn't kick her out of the group, and I can't imagine why I would. It's an informal group. We meet at the park for the kids to get some kid time and moms to support each other. IMO, this scenario worked out great, as this mom is now a happy, confident homeschooler. 

 

I suppose if the group were more formal and there were resources to split, I can see why they would be more selective. All the groups we've participated in have required each parent to be responsible for their own expenses. 

 

I know that one or 2 other members of my (very small) group have older kids in K12. They participate in their own K12 only activities/meetings/testing. I'm unfamiliar with all of that. I was informed that they would not be participating in park days because they already have them through K12. Whatever. 

[Farrar]

I like that term "home study" - that's a new one on me. It would be nice to have a neutral term that would include both ps and private study at home students and homeschoolers... that would be a separate term from "homeschool" so they wouldn't be conflated so much.

[JennyD]

And I'd say, "To homeschool in TN, you can enroll with an umbrella school [because the law specifically uses that term, yes?) or register with your local school board." I would not include enrolling with TNVA, because that is not a *homeschooling* option. It is a public-school option.

 

I am also in TN, and while I agree that I would not think of folks registered with TNVA as 'homeschoolers' (more on that below) as others have mentioned, there actually is a third option -- mentioned by others upthread -- of setting yourself up as a satellite campus of a church-related school, with the parents as teachers appointed or employed by the school.  This setup is regulated differently than is simply registering with a church-related school and is NOT officially "home schooling" under TN law.  However, this seems to be a pretty meaningless difference to me and in fact I wonder if it's not simply an artifact of sloppy legislative wording or something of that ilk.  (For the record, we are independent homeschoolers registered with the school board.)

 

On the subject of virtual schooling, while I'm all in favor of folks doing their own thing and would be strongly opposed to excluding TNVA students from homeschool activities, groups, etc., for purposes of public policy discussions I am not at all enthused about having homeschooling casually lumped in with at least our state version of virtual schooling, which is (1) for-profit; and (2) last year recorded the lowest test scores (as measured by progress) of any elementary or middle school in the entire state.  

[Desert Strawberry]

In my area PS students who are using a virtual school are primarily referred to as kids who "school at home", and homeschool is a parent led education using whatever materials and resources you choose without the oversight or funding of the school district. Here it's based on who would be graduating the student. I've heard of some groups who will exclude PS virtual students, but not many. In the groups we attend it's only a legal distinction.

I like this distinction of terms. 

 

This issue is muddied here in my state because we have no legal classification of "homeschool". I am registered as a private school. Whether I teach my own kids or someone else's, for pay or not, does not matter. I have established a private school. The only I give the state is my name, my physical address, the number of students aged 7-18, and our start date for the year. The names, ages and relationships of the kids is irrelevant. 

 

There is another option called Home Study which requires the student to be registered, evaluated and tested by the state board of education. There are no benefits to the student in most cases (this option does allow some access to public school opportunities and state scholarship, but these are not available until later in the school career, and not utilized by everyone). I know of very few students registered under this option. I would guess that *this* is the official designation of homeschoolers, but most of us are not using it, as it restricts our freedoms with no incentive. 

 

I have been hearing more people talk about the virtual school as *the option* for homeschooling. Yes, it is an option, but it is not at all what we do. It is public school at home, just as Mel called it. I do think this a great alternative to B&M public school for those families who would never otherwise consider removing their kids. My dh calls it a "gateway" program. First get the kids home. Then change the way they learn. 

[Desert Strawberry]

If you are not a state official what difference does it make?

 

I don't care, really.

 

But I frequently find myself in an ambassadorship position, attempting to help new and potential homeschoolers navigate their options. Having only done it one way, I run into difficulties when others have questions about which I have no personal knowledge. I do, however, have access to rich communities both IRL and online where I can learn about the experiences of others which are helpful to them. 

 

I only want to assist other families in making choices that will benefit themselves in their unique situations. I have strong opinions about what I want for my family, but no preference for others do. I'm just here to support anyone who wants to give something better to their kid. 

[mom2scouts]

I am more aware of making the distinction between homeschooling and public school at home because of the number of people who say, "Oh, so your kids do all their work on the computer?", or "So the state sends you a computer and all your books?", or "How often do they have to check in with their teacher?".  I've had more than a few people ask me about "homeschooling" because they were unhappy with the school system and they wanted to try it, but what they really were thinking about  was online public school.  The online public schools advertise heavily in my state and I think that adds to the confusion.  Most parents don't have any clue about the amount of educational freedom that homeschoolers have if they are willing to pay for it.  When given the opportunity, I explain that there is a *legal* difference and tell them why I chose homeschooling for my family.  I always add that many people use online public school and are happy with it but it is not "legally" homeschooling in my state.

 

Most of the homeschool classes and groups in my area are open to any family that does school at home, but there is a formal and established co-op group that is open only to those who are excluded from compulsory school attendance (traditional homeschoolers) and specifically excludes those that use online public or charter schools. I'm starting to wonder how long the other groups will remain inclusive since the number of online students is increasing, most online schools have their own field trips and activities, and homeschooling classes are filling up quickly and the spots are often taken by public school (at home) students.

[Sisyphus]

The distinction is important, IMO. When we first began home schooling 11 years ago, it was what most think of as home schooling- no oversight save state regulations for home schoolers. We moved overseas, and back last year. Now when people hear home schooling, they automatically assume "online public school" and are chagrined we don't take state tests, have an oversight teacher, etc. Because every other "home schooler" they know does. The common perception of what home schooling is has changed, drastically. I feel this move to offering state funded online schools is a way to curtail home schooling freedoms. I don't normally subscribe to tinfoil hat theories, but I fear a mandate to the state funded online schools is where this is all heading.

 

I don't want to keep anyone out of support groups, or anything like that, but I do feel keeping the distinction is very important.

[HS Mom in NC]

Here in AZ, as far as I can tell, public/charter school at home is not allowed to use the term homeschooling.  They have to use the term public/charter school at home when they send out their mailers and on their websites to avoid confusion. I think anything that avoids confusion is categorically a good idea so parents get the clearest idea possible for each option.

We have right around 10,000 legally classified homeschoolers (independent from any government involvement or funds) in our county which includes PHX and  much of the greater PHX area. Then there are the people doing school at home through a public or public/charter school.   There are lots of homeschool groups here and most are open to people in both categories but some are only open to legally classified homeschoolers.  When new people come along I try to explain that whether they agree with it or not, the burden is on them to read the information put out by each group.  If it's open to them, it's open to them and if it isn't, then it isn't.  They're not allowed to complain after the fact that the group specified they were only open to the other category but they signed up any way.  They can expect to be told to leave through private means that they're not eligible if people in the group find out. (I've seen it happen twice in 13 years of homeschooling.)   If they had signed up for a swim class that specifically stated it was only open the children in a certain age group and they tried to enroll a child older or younger no one would have any sympathy for them if they're asked to leave.  If they had decided to try to join a church and didn't meet whatever criteria that church stated was required for membership, they shouldn't complain about being denied or rejected.

 

Granted, most groups don't care, but there are some that do care.  If you care that your classification isn't included, do what the other group did-start your own group for whoever you think should be allowed to join.  Don't demand private groups of people accommodate you.  They're under absolutely no obligation to do so. Groups take effort to start and maintain-don't demand someone else do that for you. If someone has and is willing to welcome you, great!  If not, get to work making it happen.

[Ellie]

Yes, here, K12 is a virtual public school. I'm not sure if it's a charter, or if Louisiana law allows charter schools at this time. There is a similar program in a neighboring parish, but it does not go by the "charter" name, and there seems to be some legal maneuvering right now having to do with that designation. 

 

I had one member of my small group who was enrolled in K12 for the first bit of K, but after talking with me and another mom who had dropped out of K12, she dropped out, too, and is now just homeschooling. Legally, we don't report until age 7, so she isn't required to report yet, I don't think. 

 

I didn't kick her out of the group, and I can't imagine why I would. It's an informal group. We meet at the park for the kids to get some kid time and moms to support each other. IMO, this scenario worked out great, as this mom is now a happy, confident homeschooler. 

 

I suppose if the group were more formal and there were resources to split, I can see why they would be more selective. All the groups we've participated in have required each parent to be responsible for their own expenses. 

 

I know that one or 2 other members of my (very small) group have older kids in K12. They participate in their own K12 only activities/meetings/testing. I'm unfamiliar with all of that. I was informed that they would not be participating in park days because they already have them through K12. Whatever. 

 

According to Dogpile (my favorite search engine) it is Louisiana Virtual Charter Academy, so yes, it is a charter school.

 

There's even further confusion with charter schools which require/provide K12, because the children are actually enrolled in the charter school, not K12. K12 itself doesn't help the issue with all of its advertising, and the fact that many of the virtual charter schools seem not to have their own web sites but are found on the K12 site.

 

Oh, and notice that on the Louisiana K12 site (I would imagine that it would be the same on state virtual academy sites) it says, "Louisiana Virtual Charter Academy (LAVCA) is a tuition-free online public school program that uses the K¹² curriculum, which is accessed via an online school as well as through more traditional methods." No where does it say anything about parents; it does talk about the "x-team:" "The “xTeamâ€â€” teachers, advisors, counselors, coordinators, and other educational personnel—offering personalized, extensive support to students and families" I'm not saying this is bad or anything, only that nothing here looks like homeschooling.

[Pen]

As an example of the differences that some parents may not be aware of, but other "authorities" may be, when I was a foster parent, it was legal to do school from at home via enrollment in an online public school, but it was not legal to homeschool the child, in the legal homeschool sense.

[LucyStoner]

6 of one, half a dozen of the other.  

[maize]

2. Public School at Home - programs like K12, TTISD, Calvert {when done through a PS program}, charters, etc. Paid for in full or mostly in full by PS funding - no parental funding except for perhaps fees / extras. Requires state testing if required of ps students in your state. Parental unit makes little or no decisions about what is used or when to school. Issues diploma / report card from school.

 

 

In some states, the options with regard to publicly funded at home programs are significantly broader than this. I was at one point involved in a program that required nothing more than reporting attendance and administering reading tests in the lower grades. I could choose to borrow school curriculum or use my own. There were more requirements for higher grade levels, including submitting work samples and taking standardized exams. Every curriculum choice, every assignment choice, was made by the parent. It is also possible in my current state to register as a homeschooler but also enroll part time in either a brick and mortar or a virtual school. I think the educational possibilities are much broader than you are familiar with.

[lea_lpz]

I live in Ca where you are public school or private and no one is a legal homeschooler. You either file a private school affidavit, have private tutor with a teaching credential (could be parent if they have one, or are an independent study student through a public or private school.

 

My opinion in light if the k12 online is that-

Homeschool charter- parent chooses curriculum, schedules lessons, teaches lessons, and is responsible for grading, so homeschooling family

K12 Virtual Online- kids must take all classes online and their teacher schedules all lessons, tests and gives grades- not really home education but more like virtual public schoolers

 

As far as joining homeschool groups, I would not be against them joining social homeschool groups, but I would not really see what they are doing as lining up with the philosophy I have behind homeschooling.

 

I guess it comes down to home education vs. doing school work from home.

[Supertechmom]

Not to be snarky but if taking online classes from the public school charters at home is a form of homeschooling, then how does that apply to college?

 

because most of my college experience just recently was done at home online, test included. If attending college online at home is still called college and still considered under the college's responsibility, then why is attending public school at home different? You register with a "place" and take classes at home in your pjs with your coffee at 10:00 am or midnight or whatever you decide. But i dont hear of people trying to change the staus of what it is. So I don't understand why k-12 is different? Classes at home given by the public school is still public school. Why do those in the public school or private school at home route care to be called homeschoolers? (Not being snarky, we have a debate here about it among some very opinionated people :)

 

I have a few friends in our state's online public school charter and they get irrated when people label them as homeschoolers. My sister in point gets very defensive ( but of course it may more that it is considered a status symbol. "I have the time and money to stay home with my kids and keep them fromthe ole nasty B&m school without lowering myself to the whack a doodle homeschooler level" --- insert eye rolling smilie here as you can guess what she considers me LOL!). So there is a group in online public who don't want to be called homeschoolers. And they don't understand the group that insists on being labeled homeschoolers. And this old school homeschooler doesn't understand why everyone feels the need to change the labels. It is what it is, Own it and be happy everyone gets to make the choices that works for them and understand that legal differences may from time to time dictate how the groups interact related to academics and sports.

[OneStepAtATime]

I like the term parent-led education. :) I have met many families whose children are in traditional classrooms, both public and private, where the parents are very active in making decisions regarding the education of their children. I have certainly witnessed cases where these parents are more active in their child's education than say a family that is doing BJU distance learning. But, hey, maybe there are reasons for that. I don't care what people call themselves, who posts on the boards, or who shows up for local field trips. I just like the term parent-led education. It sounds so inclusive and acknowledges that, no matter what path you have chosen for your children's education, you can and should play an active roll.

 

So, parent-led education is my hippy-love, koombahyah word for the day. :)

Mandy

Well spoken, Mandy!  :)  Before we started homeschooling, and before we knew that both kids were dyslexic, I was at the school nearly every blessed day, reviewing, talking with teachers, talking with parents, and I eventually started buying ALL of their textbooks used through Abe Books and doing the lessons myself at home to better help re-teach material to the kids in a way that might make sense to them, since they weren't getting much at school.  Teachers were frequently contacting me by e-mail to give me heads up on tests and other activities that might trip up the kids and to brain storm ways to modify the assignment to give them a fighting chance (wish even one of them had mentioned the possibility of dyslexia, though).  Anyway, it was definitely, in many ways, parent-led education.  I've never worked so hard in all my life, including my years in Broadcast TV and our homeschooling years now.  Love that all inclusive term!  Just because a parent isn't homeschooling, doesn't mean they aren't working hard for their kids.

 

As for whether any specific system is "homeschooling" or not, if you need the definition for a legal issue, etc. then yes it matters what you call yourself.  But if the legal situation doesn't matter, then why DOES it matter what a parent calls themselves?  You can get stuck on legal definitions (which change from state to state) or you can get stuck in an endless debate on differences in personal philosophy or you can just say if you want to call yourself a homeschooler, great.  So am I.  Pleased to meet you.  How are your kids?  Want a play date?

 

Aren't most of us just trying to do what is best for our children and our families?  The paths we choose may be different, but I think most of us choose those paths for similar reasons...

[ElizaG]

Yes, I homeschooled in California, starting in 1982 in San Diego. I left CA in 2004, after having owned/administered a PSP for 16 years in San Jose.

 

I am familiar with both CHN and HSC. I was slightly involved with HSC when it was Northern California Homeschool Association (Homeschool Associates of Northern California? I forget--that was 20 yeas ago, lol), before CHN broke off in the early 90s.

 

Yes, that distinction does exist. There is a difference between homeschooling under the private school option and enrolling the children in a public school ISP or charter school. Public school officials are well aware of that distinction. It's too bad that CHN doesn't include the information that HSLDA does: "Under this option, the child is a public school student and has to abide by the rules and policy of the public school.Cal. Educ. Code §51745." Note the inclusion of the Education Code. Section 48222 exempts a student from public school attendance if he is enrolled in a private school which has complied with Section 53190 (details the filing of an affidavit).

 

Even the  information you quoted says, "Enroll in a public school that offers independent study or charter school." That is exactly what I've been saying. "Public school." Notice that there are actually only three options: enroll the children in a private school; enroll them in a public school; have them tutored full-time by a credentialed teacher. On paper, it doesn't matter whether the private school is one which a parent establishes herself by filing her own affidavit or one which is administered by someone else who files the affidavit; the court case a few years ago recognized the fact that it is legal for parents to file their own affidavits or to enroll in a private school which only enrolls homeschooled students (Private School Satellite Program).

 

Again, please notice that I did not say that parents who enroll their children in a home-based charter school (or ISP...charter schools are now more common than ISPs) are not "homeschooling." I have repeatedly said that there is a legal difference--a distinction--between enrolling one's children in a public school program and teaching one's children at home under the state's homeschool (or private school) laws.

 

I don't think anyone here has disputed the point that there are legal differences between the private and public school home study options.   The disagreement is about whether or not it's appropriate to refer to students in the public programs as "homeschoolers."   Your response seems to beg the question, by using the term as if it only applied to the private option.    If the word "homeschooling" doesn't appear in the law in California, then how can one claim to be using it in a legal sense in that state?

 

At the grass roots in CA, the public charter schools that pay for parent-chosen materials and activities are becoming more and more popular.   The people who enroll with them do still consider themselves to be homeschooling, as do the major state homeschool groups.   (Even CHEA lists charters as a homeschooling option, with the caveat that they don't recommend them.)   The only change is that these families have decided that they're willing to accept some oversight -- which, from what I've heard, usually isn't particularly burdensome -- in exchange for some financial assistance.   

 

Since homeschoolers in several other US states have similar levels of government oversight to start with, that can't be what "disqualifies" these families from homeschooling in certain people's eyes.  So I guess it must be the fact that they accept funding.  But this is inconsistent, too.  Tax credits are already fairly common in the US, and in other places such as New Zealand and Alberta, Canada, homeschoolers are given funding outright.  

 

(While some Protestants and others object to this on principle, it's a positive development from the perspective of Catholic social teaching.  Whether or not one believes that the government should be involved in education, the fact remains that they are already taking our tax money for that purpose, and as such, they have an obligation in justice to share it with those families who need it.   And this includes all families -- not just the ones who are willing to have their children spend their school days in an environment that's devoid of the formative influence of their religious faith.)

 

Stepping back a bit... I think there's something to be said for "muddying the water" if it means having a variety of educational options, in accordance with the values of the local population, and freely chosen by the parents to suit their family's needs.   To assert a "one size fits all" homeschooling model for the entire USA -- as some on this thread have tried to do -- seems, IDK, kind of authoritarian.   On top of that, by drawing a sharp line between "us" and "those bad guys," it feeds into some really vacuous and unhelpful trends in American discourse.  

 

I think we were much better off when educational structures were more organic and flexible.  These new developments certainly don't solve the problem, but they give some practical support to families who ask for it, and  could also help to increase people's awareness of the possibilities.    If it means some confusing conversations, and terms that mean different things in different places, then so be it.   We humans have adaptable minds to help us with this sort of thing.  :001_smile:

[briansmama]

This will probably get me flamed, but here is my take. There are a lot of school at home programs, but not all are homeschooling {even if they call themselves that}. I am on the more conservative side of the definitions, but here goes.

 

1. Homeschooling - no {or very little} funding from outside the parental unit. No supervision or testing except as required by your state. No outside grading of work. Parental unit makes 100% of the decisions about what to use, how to teach, and when to school. Does NOT need to be done 100% at home. May or may not choose to enroll a child for an occasional co-op class or online class as needed, but primary education is done by parent {more than 50% of education}.

 

2. Public School at Home - programs like K12, TTISD, Calvert {when done through a PS program}, charters, etc. Paid for in full or mostly in full by PS funding - no parental funding except for perhaps fees / extras. Requires state testing if required of ps students in your state. Parental unit makes little or no decisions about what is used or when to school. Issues diploma / report card from school.

 

3. PRIVATE school at home - K12, Seton, OLRS, Abeka Academy, BJU, SOS, etc Paid for by parental unit primarily, may have some funding from government as well. Parent makes slightly more decision about what to teach, how, etc but tests / work is graded by OUTSIDE entity from school or work graded by parent must be reported to school. May or may not require testing. Often called homeschooling. Issues diploma / report card from school.

 

4. CO-OP schooling - again often called homeschooling, but really is more of a private school setting IMO. Often run through hsing groups, but parents send children 2-5 days per week to co-op where they are taught by educator from outside family unit. I am making a distinction here between parents who send their child for a couple of classes vs. the entire years teaching provided by co-op & merely supplemented by family unit. Only the 2nd group would be considered co-op schooling IMO. Classes {at least here} are often taught by either certified teachers or seasoned homeschool parents who have experience in the area taught.

 

5. Hybrid schooling - a mix of 2 {or more} of the above, where the parent provides less than 50% of the primary instruction as defined in #1 above.

 

 

As for homeschooling groups, I think all but #2 above should be allowed to participate. #2 possibly IF THERE IS ROOM & everyone is okay with it.

Except again, I don't think it's this back and white. In instance number 2, what if a parent decides to enroll their dc in a Public Charter School that serves home study and gives parents the choice to use whatever curriculum they wish (or none at all) and simply provides records and collects samples, and offers a learning center for optional classes, like woodworking? And what if said charter only provides a small amount of educational funding for the child and the parent is left to make up the rest for learning activities/materials/resources of their own choice? This does not fit in with your definition that states "where parents are not providing most of the educational funding". These charters exist all over CA and are starting up in OR too (though options in CA are still far more progressive).

 

And what if a child is enrolled in a local public school only to receive services for LDs and the parents are completely in charge of the rest of the child's education at home. They don't deserve support from a local homeschool group? We know several of these families, and they are enrolled in the system because they need the funding for very expensive therapies for their dc (to the tune of $1K per month). The school doesn't pay anything for their curriculum and educational activities/classes.

 

And for number 3, what about a homeschooling parent who chooses to purchase a homeschooling curriculum in it's entirety and seeks the support of the company online (Oak Meadow for example)? They are a homeschooling program. A parent can pay extra for more support (record keeping, grading, etc).

 

What about charters that only offer 2 days per week of on-campus instruction and the parent uses whatever resources they wish (or none at all) the other 3 days and provide all instruction (or enroll their kids in educational classes on those days)? We had several families like this in our homeschool group.

 

What about a homeschooled teen who enrolls in a few classes at the local community college?

 

What about the full-blown homeschooled kid who needs math tutoring?

 

Homeschooling will continue to grow and evolve to include all of the above. It's already happening and the movement is changing what homeschooling looks like. We know plenty of families who homeschool and don't do any teaching at home. They enroll their kids in science classes at the local science center/institute, send them to a tutor for math and a co-op for literature and language arts, and a writing club for creative writing, and a coach for swim team, as well as an online class for history.

[Mouseketeer67]

I like this distinction of terms. 

 

This issue is muddied here in my state because we have no legal classification of "homeschool". I am registered as a private school. Whether I teach my own kids or someone else's, for pay or not, does not matter. I have established a private school. The only I give the state is my name, my physical address, the number of students aged 7-18, and our start date for the year. The names, ages and relationships of the kids is irrelevant. 

 

There is another option called Home Study which requires the student to be registered, evaluated and tested by the state board of education. There are no benefits to the student in most cases (this option does allow some access to public school opportunities and state scholarship, but these are not available until later in the school career, and not utilized by everyone). I know of very few students registered under this option. I would guess that *this* is the official designation of homeschoolers, but most of us are not using it, as it restricts our freedoms with no incentive. 

 

I have been hearing more people talk about the virtual school as *the option* for homeschooling. Yes, it is an option, but it is not at all what we do. It is public school at home, just as Mel called it. I do think this a great alternative to B&M public school for those families who would never otherwise consider removing their kids. My dh calls it a "gateway" program. First get the kids home. Then change the way they learn. 

 

I'm in south Louisiana. My kids have been in the "Approved Home Study Program" for 15 years. There is no requirement for testing by the state board of education. Parents can test if they want to.

I always did the portfolio review....aka "Curriculum Packet".

 

The benefit to being in the "approved home study program" is at the high school level. Students who are in the program have the distinction of the mommy made diploma holding the same weight as an BESE-approved non-public school. That means that these students cannot be discriminated against by technical colleges, police departments, beauty schools and such.  Mommy made diplomas from a Registered Nonpublic School (Not Seeking State Approval) aka "private school option" are not recognized by the state, technical colleges, beauty schools, and such.  Another benefit is the TOPS Scholarship.

 

My two oldest are both receiving a TOPS Scholarship.

[Ellie]

I don't think anyone here has disputed the point that there are legal differences between the private and public school home study options.   The disagreement is about whether or not it's appropriate to refer to students in the public programs as "homeschoolers."   Your response seems to beg the question, by using the term as if it only applied to the private option.    If the word "homeschooling" doesn't appear in the law in California, then how can one claim to be using it in a legal sense in that state?

 

Stepping back a bit... I think there's something to be said for "muddying the water" if it means having a variety of educational options, in accordance with the values of the local population, and freely chosen by the parents to suit their family's needs.   To assert a "one size fits all" homeschooling model for the entire USA -- as some on this thread have tried to do -- seems, IDK, kind of authoritarian.   On top of that, by drawing a sharp line between "us" and "those bad guys," it feeds into some really vacuous and unhelpful trends in American discourse.  

 

I think we were much better off when educational structures were more organic and flexible.  These new developments certainly don't solve the problem, but they give some practical support to families who ask for it, and  could also help to increase people's awareness of the possibilities.    If it means some confusing conversations, and terms that mean different things in different places, then so be it.   We humans have adaptable minds to help us with this sort of thing.  :001_smile:

 

I have only said that legally, there is a difference between enrolling one's children in a government-funded charter school, whether it's campus-based or home-based, and not doing that. Children who are enrolled in those government-funded programs are legally public school students. I have not given an opinion as to whether people who do home-based public school, virtual or otherwise, are "homeschoolers." :-)

 

We were much better off when the government stayed out of it. I have no doubt that many public school (or other government) officials look at home-based charter schools as a way to control homeschoolers when they were otherwise not able to because of state laws (or lack thereof, which would require laws to be passed, and homeschoolers are onto them, lol). This would be true in Oklahoma, Texas, California, and other states which have little or no oversight of people who want to teach their children at home.

[Pen]

I lost track.   What is the point of this thread?   Are kids who are enrolled in a public online school doing their work from home "homeschoolers"?    The answer in my state is clearly no.   Can you call them homeschoolers if you want to?  Sure.   So far as I know while the meaning has a clear legal definition here and that is not it, you are still free to use the term in any way you wish and there are not word police around giving out tickets about it.   

 

The only issue I really see, is that if people feel like the online public at home is "homeschool" and all that needs to exist for homeschool, maybe that tends to diminish what many have fought hard to get to do, namely to oversee their own children's educations as they see fit.  I know that for myself an online public school education is not what I want for my son call it what you will, and even though being at home would be at least a bit of a help.  What I want is the "parent led" education, whether that takes him to various classes in brick and mortar locations, or whether it is all done from home.  

 

And I fear losing that and getting to where, with my own child, the only home option would be as it was for the foster children, namely a standard public school curriculum done from home.    Before parents were as able as now to homeschool (parent led) and before internet, doing school from home was still possible, in cases of illness for example, by following the usual public school curriculum with things sent home weekly, follow-up with the teacher and so on.  What to me is really different and better is the parent-led aspect being possible, the ability to fit things to the needs of a particular child and family rather than a cookie cutter one size fits all approach.   

 

I'd hate to lose that due to confusions on terms.

[briansmama]

Pen, I think the OP's point is that you are still a homeschooler even if you're enrolled in some type of public school option that allows a child to work from home (correct me if I'm wrong, OP). While I understand from your post that you dont believe those enrolled in a public online school are homeschooling because the parent assumes no responsibility for educating the child, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of public school options for homeschoolers that do not require the student to take any online class, and do allow the parent full choice of which materials to use with their dc, what scope and sequence to follow, etc. To me, and all of the families in our homeschool group in CA who used the services of the public charter to purchase art supplies, pay for nature classes, piano lessons, private tutoring, etc, that still counts as homeschooling. I was still hand-selecting my dc materials/classes/educational pedagogy/books/etc.

 

That charter offered enrolled families $900/semester per child to be used on anything deemed educational, provided it was secular. You could use religious materials but the school couldn't pay for them. I could have used every cent on private tutoring or the the whole chunk on art classes. So, my point is that the waters are muddy and it's not as clearly defined as it once was (at least to me). We knew radical unschoolers enrolled in that charter. That's a lot of funding for families and hard to pass up.

[Desert Strawberry]

My point in posting this was to hear the arguments on both sides: is public school at home homeschooling or not ,and why would public school at home families be excluded from homeschool groups.

Now I have heard at least 3 sides of this argument, none of which I would have thought of on my own. 

Thank you all for sharing.

[HS Mom in NC]

 

That charter offered enrolled families $900/semester per child to be used on anything deemed educational, provided it was secular.

This type of self-contradictory statement is what confuses people. "Anything"....followed by.."provided it was"...is self-contradictory and not logical.

 

It's not self-contradictory if it's clearly stated like this:

 

The public/ charter offers $900 per child, per semester of the taxpayer's money for secular educational materials.

 

I've personally met 2 different families using public/charter school online here in AZ (about 9 years ago) that were told by the school official overseeing the online program that they couldn't tell their kids Thanksgiving was holiday in which the pilgrims gave thanks to God even if it was with materials purchased privately and used on their own time.  The official had asked the kids what they had been studying since the last contact and the kids offered that as part of their explanation. There was no way to enforce that, but it was stated none the less.

 

"You could use religious materials but the school couldn't pay for them."  Maybe technically, but that doesn't mean some officials might try to tell you otherwise.  Both families had the good sense to bow out and homeschool independently.

 

No amount of money is worth losing freedom (or being forced to abandon first source materials. )

[Ellie]

That charter offered enrolled families $900/semester per child to be used on anything deemed educational, provided it was secular. You could use religious materials but the school couldn't pay for them. I could have used every cent on private tutoring or the the whole chunk on art classes. So, my point is that the waters are muddy and it's not as clearly defined as it once was (at least to me). We knew radical unschoolers enrolled in that charter. That's a lot of funding for families and hard to pass up.

 

The waters are not muddied *legally,* though. Children enrolled in the charter school are still legally public school students, not private school students.  And because of the court case a few years ago, "homeschooling" has been acknowledged as private schooling.

[Pen]

Pen, I think the OP's point is that you are still a homeschooler even if you're enrolled in some type of public school option that allows a child to work from home (correct me if I'm wrong, OP). While I understand from your post that you dont believe those enrolled in a public online school are homeschooling because the parent assumes no responsibility for educating the child, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of public school options for homeschoolers that do not require the student to take any online class, and do allow the parent full choice of which materials to use with their dc, what scope and sequence to follow, etc. To me, and all of the families in our homeschool group in CA who used the services of the public charter to purchase art supplies, pay for nature classes, piano lessons, private tutoring, etc, that still counts as homeschooling. I was still hand-selecting my dc materials/classes/educational pedagogy/books/etc.

 

That charter offered enrolled families $900/semester per child to be used on anything deemed educational, provided it was secular. You could use religious materials but the school couldn't pay for them. I could have used every cent on private tutoring or the the whole chunk on art classes. So, my point is that the waters are muddy and it's not as clearly defined as it once was (at least to me). We knew radical unschoolers enrolled in that charter. That's a lot of funding for families and hard to pass up.

 

 

I was not making a statement about my personal beliefs as to what constitutes homeschooling.  I made a statement about the legal definition of it in my state, which, unlike California, both allows and requires homeschoolers to register as such and follow rules for homeschoolers (there are people who do not register, but technically their children are truants) which are different than either public (regular or charter) or private schools.  Homeschooling here (Oregon)  by law simply is not part of the Venn diagram world that Crimson portrayed, even though to her it seemed obvious that what she was portraying was the way it was for everyone.   Here in Oregon, homeschooling, according to the law of the state, is in a different circle entirely from either private or public, though it does have potential overlaps with both.   I thought this was true of more places and that California was an unusual exception, but I gather now from other posts that a number of states do it more like California does, and perhaps it is Oregon that is the exception.

 

Students such as you describe (and I would love to have some money like that since I do pay taxes that get to be used for schooling and yet don't find that schooling to work for my child, and yet also full freedom of choice of what to do--here all such programs as give some benefits also have a lot of strings attached) are, by law in my state, public charter school students, not homeschoolers.   And here, because it is an option to enroll in such a charter, the students usually will say I go to ACE or I go to Homesource or I go to Fossil, rather than self identify as homeschoolers, but here they also do seem to participate in homeschool parkdays and what not.  I have no issues with such students being called homeschoolers, attending homeschool groups etc., and personally am unaware of anyone being excluded on the basis of not being a genuine homeschooler.   I understand that if I were in CA my options if I wanted to "homeschool" are different than what they are where I actually am, and that the form of "homeschool" that we have here does not exist in California.   

 

Some of what you have in California, private schools like Sudbury where you can work at home, or Charter schools like ACE Academy where you can work at home, does exist here, but is not in the same category as homeschooling.  We do not have to form a personal private school to do what some in California do that is essentially the same as homeschool here.   But even then, the two states, though neighbors do not have the same rules, regs, or realities when it comes to homeschooling.   It may be hard to be there and understand that it is different elsewhere.

 

I am also quite aware of the broad range of options.   I was replying to the "Online school" issue not because it is the only option but because it appeared to be the title of the thread:

Replying to "Online school is not homeschool?"   The word "online" is in the thread title.

 

Even then it is murky as someone here could be a legal homeschooler and do their work all online via something like Calvert, I think, but I was thinking more of things like https://www.connectionsacademy.com/oregon-online-school/ which is what as a foster parent I would have had to have used if I had wanted to school a child at home.  It is not legally "homeschool" here, and it is also not in my own way of thinking what I mean by homeschool, but I have no personal problem with anyone using it attending homeschool functions if they identify as a homeschooler and wish to do that...certainly someone using the program from home would have the same issues about needing to get out to socialize as a technical legal homeschooler would.  

 

 The online program linked above was the only option for schooling a foster child from home allowed at least so far as I was told back when I was looking into it.  And yes, there are people who would like that to be the only option allowed for schooling at home at all.  I made a personal belief statement that I would be very much saddened if confusion as to terms ended up making it that only things like the link above would be available for people wanting to homeschool their own children, just as I was sad when I looked into it that it was the only option allowed if I wanted to school a foster child at home.  I consider it public school, so did my state.   Nonetheless, I am perfectly happy for it to exist as one option for children for whom it would be helpful.  I am fine with you calling it "homeschool" if you wish to do so.

[liberty5_3000]

Around me everyone doing the online public school option seems to prefer to refer to what they are doing as "cyber schooling".  I've never even heard any of the moms I know call it homeschooling.  My son's friend's mom is even quite opposed to homeschooling based on things she posts online, all the while she does cyber school with her daughter.  So not everyone who cyber schools even wants to be included in the label "homeschool".

[Pen]

Pen, I think the OP's point is that you are still a homeschooler even if you're enrolled in some type of public school option that allows a child to work from home (correct me if I'm wrong, OP). ...

 

 

More simply than in my last overlong post.  By law, where I am, that would be incorrect.  If you are enrolled in public school you are not a homeschooler, as a matter of law here, not my opinion.  By law that person would be a public schooler--leaving aside some nuances possible such as official legal dual enrollment.  This is a different matter in California where there is not, so far as I understand, official enrollment as a homeschooler available.

 

You and she may call that person anything you choose to, and it is possible that where you or she or someone else is that by law it would be correct--though Ellie seems to be saying that it is also not correct elsewhere.   In any case, -- where I am it is not correct, in regard to the law pertaining to the word,  and it  is not even a confusing grey area.    

[Desert Strawberry]

For the record, I am originally from California and have homeschooled there very briefly , but I am in Louisiana now. I'm not sure why California keeps coming up. It really isn't all that relevant to this conversation.

[lea_lpz]

My dd is enrolled in a charter school.

 

There is a $900 per semester stripened and you can use it for services or materials but they must be secular and from a long list of approached vendors. Their are some restrictions, such as only a certain percentage can be used on high risk sports, such horseback riding lessons (up to half).

 

As far as over sight, from my experience from k & 1st ( so I am obviously not qualified to speak on how much over sight is involved with older kids) it is in my opinion minimal.

 

Their is school wide writing prompt, standardized testing, and every 20 school days you meet with your education specialist. You are required to cover the following areas- Lang, Math, Social Studies / History, Science & PE. There is school calendar but so long as you can provide a couple work samples, you can really follow your own schedule. They just need about 2 samples from each area, so most ES's understand if you homeschool year round; they just want to see you do a years worth of work a year. Working at your child's pace is fine, too. I use a Christian Curriculum which I pay for out of my own pocket as my core and this has presented no problem. I use the funds to buy non secular books and supplies as well as school supplies, such as art supplies, paper, etc, and supplemental materials, like a weaving kit for example, and for extra curriculars, like a science co-op and horseback riding lessons.

 

Technically that would make my child a public schooler, but I have all the freedom to chose my curriculum, make my own lessons, and work at the pace we desire and implement my education philosophy,, so I feel like we are still having a home education experience. I like having the accountability to report what we are doing, I want to know how my kids are doing compared to their peers so don't mind standardized testing, and I like to have someone to get advice from occasionally. Yes, the funds help out! We pay taxes for public school so I don't see why we shouldn't get our share.

 

If participating in a charter school ever becomes to intrusive I don't see doing the private school affidavit as being difficult. But, as long as the charter school works I will likely stick with it.

 

I don't see it as the same category as k-12 online, because I am accountable for being the teacher. You actually sign a contract stating you understand that you are responsible for your child's education and not your ES. My understanding with k-12 online is that they are part if a virtual school and they take a full class schedule and are accountable to their teacher. The parent chooses neither the material, teaches lessons, assigns homework or gives grades. I just don't see this as a parent lead home education.

 

I know families who do the private school affidavit and families who do charter. I've never been excluded from homeschooling groups because of our status as "public schoolers" enrolled in a charter school. I know their are some who feel strongly against any involvement with public schools, but we are all part of the same groups, and people keep it polite.

[briansmama]

The waters are not muddied *legally,* though. Children enrolled in the charter school are still legally public school students, not private school students. And because of the court case a few years ago, "homeschooling" has been acknowledged as private schooling.

Yes, I agree that enrolling in any charter and accepting public funds for your dc education makes them a public school student in paper, but these families are still homeschoolers in my mind, and I'm grateful to the OP for starting this thread so I could contribute and explain why.

 

We recently met a homeschooling family that decided to sign up for K12 online, but only for science. The family pays for and selects all other curriculum for their dc. Is this family not a homeschooling family? They certainly see themselves as a homeschooling family.

 

My point is that it's not all or nothing these days, at least not our area.

[FairProspects]

We recently met a homeschooling family that decided to sign up for K12 online, but only for science. The family pays for and selects all other curriculum for their dc. Is this family not a homeschooling family? They certainly see themselves as a homeschooling family.

 

My point is that it's not all or nothing these days, at least not our area.

 

That is using K12 independently. We're doing that also this year and are legally homeschoolers. It is no different than buying BJU or Abeka in a box. I think most (if not all) on this thread have agreed with that point. But yes, it is not so obvious anymore where the lines fall.