Help please- Chemistry angst

[MtnTeaching]

My head is about to explode trying to make this decision.  I have put it off long enough, so I have come to the people I know will talk me through this.

 

I have two students taking chemistry this year:

9th grade dyslexic dd who wants to eventually get a job in wildlife management or some other animal-related field.

11th grade Liberal Arts major ds who is science-phobic and loaded with other AP and language courses.

 

Dd will use this as a "Pre-AP" course and expects to do Biology next year, then another chemistry course later.  Ds just wants to mark the "science with lab" box and move on to his love of literature, grammar and government.

 

I am considering Conceptual Chemistry and definitely want to add more of a lab component.  Also, I think a fun foray into some "kitchen chemistry" when time allows would go over well here.  Alton Brown has been a favorite for years.  (Not to mention that I am trying to incorporate a "Life Skills" course to help the 16yo alleviate his fear of actually doing something in the kitchen.)

 

Here is where I explain my dilemma.  To this point, my ds has a fairly rigorous transcript filled with AP's and honor classes.  Unfortunately, he was so swamped last year that life was not fun. Part of me is panicking a bit that this may not be accepted as a "true" chemistry class by colleges.  The other part of me wants to say, "What the Hay?", all of his other classes this year are very rigorous and time-consuming. Let's have some fun, learn the concepts, do some experiments, keep the math fairly light (although I do have the Zumdahl "World of Chemistry" teacher text and hope to supplement a little bit with the math in there), and "mark the science box". 

 

Dd struggles somewhat with reading, although science seems to "click" with her.  I am questioning doing a chemistry course with her this early, though.  I know there is a discussion out there about the benefits of taking a "conceptual chemistry" class before biology and this does seem to make sense to me.  Usually, it is the math that keeps the chemistry at bay until at least after Algebra 1. Dd will be taking them concurrently.

 

Also, I am debating the following labs:

Home Scientist basic lab

Microchem 

Throw all caution to the wind and do some TOPS, Kitchen Chemistry, and dig around in the Chem3000 set I already own.   I have to say it goes against everything I have done with him for the past several years to actually be thinking about a course that is not considered rigorous, but I also want it to be fun for all of us.

 

I would love to hear what the hive thinks about this.  

 

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Conceptual Chemistry is a college text. It is going to be accepted by colleges. It has plenty of "kitchen labs" in it already. You could get a kit for more "technical" chemistry labs.

 

A wildlife major will require chemistry , by the way. :)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm only one little worker bee.

 

Both my older kids are about finished with algebra 2.  They had a hard time with doing physics first, because I jumped right into an AP level/ college algebra based text and didn't stay on top of what they were doing.  That snowballed.  Our recovery plan has been to restart with Apologia Physics over the summer.

 

As much as I love the idea of doing something more challenging, I'm trying to resist the siren call of Zumdahl.  We'll be using Apologia for Chemistry.  We will do the associated labs using a lab kit from Home Science Tools.  The labs will be done in a weekly coop under the guidance of a dear friend who's done science labs for several years and will be on her third trip through chem.

 

I hope that at some point we'll circle back around and do more chemistry and physics, either with an advanced study at home or at a community college.  My friend's three older kids were all accepted to college using Apologia.  Not selective, elite schools, but good schools.  Her most recent grad took chem at the local community college at 16 after doing Apologia at home and got an A.

 

I will have to find something else for biology, because I'll fight too much with Apologia on that topic.  But I'm ok with the content for physics and chem.

 

ETA: I've had to decide that physics and chem that get done are better than higher level classes that aren't finished.  YMMV.

[Kareni]

ETA: I've had to decide that physics and chem that get done are better than higher level classes that aren't finished.  YMMV.

 

I agree!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[katilac]

ETA: I've had to decide that physics and chem that get done are better than higher level classes that aren't finished.  YMMV.

Amen!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm only one little worker bee.

...

 

ETA: I've had to decide that physics and chem that get done are better than higher level classes that aren't finished.  YMMV.

 

I should add that I do think that a kid should be working at or just above where they are comfortable.  A kid who is ready for higher level work, should be doing it.  Just as a swimmer or runner ought try to go a little longer or a little faster or up a steeper hill.  But there are steps and phases of training in academics, just as in sport. 

 

Right now, my kids need a Couch to College Physics program, not the MIT Open Course college lectures I tried to set them up with.  :banghead:

[MtnTeaching]

I should add that I do think that a kid should be working at or just above where they are comfortable.  A kid who is ready for higher level work, should be doing it.  Just as a swimmer or runner ought try to go a little longer or a little faster or up a steeper hill.  But there are steps and phases of training in academics, just as in sport. 

 

Right now, my kids need a Couch to College Physics program, not the MIT Open Course college lectures I tried to set them up with.  :banghead:

The working "above comfortable" has also been our motto.  Unfortunately, last year was absolutely nuts.  

 

The only two things I have EVER had a hard time teaching ds have been heath and biology.  I finally had to outsource the biology to get it done.  (It was a dismal ps program, but it got done).  He would rather spend his time on his AP English and Govt. classes and working with our library serving on the board of their non-profit fund-raising organization.  I do hope a more gentle chemistry will be a good intro for dd as well. 

 

I think I need to take a chill pill and try to make chemistry as interesting and fun as is humanly possible

 

I forgot to say that I also have them signed up for the Landry two-day intensive chemistry lab next May.  It will be a great way to end the year and cover the things we learned in the book.

[MtnTeaching]

Conceptual Chemistry is a college text. It is going to be accepted by colleges. It has plenty of "kitchen labs" in it already. You could get a kit for more "technical" chemistry labs.

 

A wildlife major will require chemistry , by the way. :)

 

This makes me feel better about this choice.  The college acceptance was a worry for me.

 

I am hoping that a conceptual chemistry approach early on for dd will allow her to be a bit better prepared for biology next year, and an upper-level chemistry later on.  Finger-crossed.  It is just so hard to know what the "right thing" to do is.

[MtnTeaching]

I read an article discussing the dismal state of chemistry students coming into the colleges.  They said the students could do the math fairly well, but had no grasp on the concepts.  This article pushed the fact that a "conceptual" chemistry early on was better than a "math" oriented chemistry in high school.  The article stated that it took the students quite awhile and in a lot of cases, several courses, before they could relate the concepts with the math once they entered college.  I will dig around and try and find that article later today.  I hope I bookmarked it.

 

Does anyone else remember and article like this.

[PeterPan]

Mtn, I wasn't going to say anything, but here goes anyway.  You do know about the GA PBS (free) online chem, right?  It's in the category of sane level that gets done...  If you decide working through CC isn't going so hot, well there you go, something you can get done.  And you know, I figure if you know you're planning to do AP chem, then it's ok to make the first one just normal.  ;)   I'm adding in some interesting non-fiction reading to connect history and science, since of course that's dd's thing.  

[MtnTeaching]

Mtn, I wasn't going to say anything, but here goes anyway.  You do know about the GA PBS (free) online chem, right?  It's in the category of sane level that gets done...  If you decide working through CC isn't going so hot, well there you go, something you can get done.  And you know, I figure if you know you're planning to do AP chem, then it's ok to make the first one just normal.   ;)   I'm adding in some interesting non-fiction reading to connect history and science, since of course that's dd's thing.  

 

Hi Elizabeth!!!  Happy August!

 

I have definitely looked at the GA PBS online chem.  I was absolutely going to use it as a supplement.  (I was raised in GA and other than a short stint with a major airline in New Orleans, I lived in GA until I married my dh at 29yo.  There is something fun about using the GA PBS for our chemistry class.  :001_smile:

 

I am just wondering... does anyone think there would be a problem trying to get this "OKed" by a college since there is no actual "textbook"?

[PeterPan]

Are you looking to apply to a school that actually asks you what textbooks you used??  Schools don't provide this info on transcripts nor do most homeschoolers.  Also, it comes with pdf materials.  I've printed them out, and the stack is crazy.  No it's not a textbook, but it's a video course, meaning I wasn't expecting one.  I figure it's balanced out by the non-fiction and essays I'm adding.  I added up the hours with the lessons, the workpages, the labs, the extra reading, and I'm there on time spent to make the unit.  Oh, we're also going to toss in the Chem 101 dvds.  Anyways, we'll have time spent altogether, meaning for us it will drive and not just be a supplement. 

 

I'd just make sure your concern about this textbook thing is valid for the schools you're looking at applying to.  Might be a moot point.  And yes, it's cute.  You can go on amazon and get a stuffed mole to go with the lessons.  You know, mole, avogadro's mole...   :D

 

PS.  Thanks for the happy August.  I need that!  I left my lit and history planning till now, so I've been going insane trying to figure it out, lol.   :)

[MtnTeaching]

I think what is making me hesitate on a pure video chemistry is my ds.  He is definitely a textbook learner.  Dd, on the other hand (as you know) is dyslexic.  She does much better with a video-style of learning.  That is why I was leaning toward Conceptual Chemistry - because of the textbook and video type of learning.

 

I am definitely still looking and will take a closer look at the GPB videos.  I have a copy of Conceptual Chemistry coming through our inter-library loan.  Hopefully, after I take a look at it in person, I will be better prepared to make a decision on it.

 

Good luck on the planning!