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My son is 6.5yo. He is not really behind in any subject, so I an not concerned about that, but here is the list of what he does that is concerning.

 

1. He talks constantly with no clue of what is going on around him. If he is not talking he is making loud sound effects or beat boxing.

 

2. He interrupts other peoples conversations all the time. And if you remind him that he is interrupting and to wait a min, he completely talks over the top of you and continues what he was saying.

 

3. He interrupts instruction to talk about non related things (usually having to do with mechanical things). This happens during school, during scouts, etc.

 

4. He blurts out really random stuff when he is supposed to be quiet. Example, during a flag ceremony at cub scout camp he blurted out "popcorn". All of the other tiger cubs never had trouble maintaining quiet for the duration of the ceremony and mine blurted out things 3 times.

 

5. He hyper-fixates on a topic and talks about it constantly to whomever will listen and doesn't notice that people are done talking about it. This is usually about something mechanical. He has a great memory in things he is interested in.

 

6. He loses things all the time.

 

7. He stops doing his work at the drop of a hat and has to be told to do it repeatedly.

 

8. He cannot sit still in his chair. He picks the finish off the desk, fiddles with anything on his desk, tips his chair backward and falls out constantly.

 

9. He often doesnt listen to you when you are talking one on one with him and will interrupt the conversation to tell you about something entirely unrelated.

 

10. He has difficulty focusing on anything that is not related to building something. If he is building a contraption he can concentrate forever, but if it is schoolwork, playing a game, reading aloud, doing a craft. He is either not focusing on it, quitting before it is done, or finishes as quickly as possible to go do something else. When it is his schoolwork that he rushes through (if he remembers to finish it at all) it is often clearly wrong because he didnt pay attention, or he skips a problem here or there.

 

11. He is often daydreaming, staring off into space etc. Especially during school or when you are talking with him.

 

 

If you made it through this list, thanks. I am thinking he must be, but I am unsure. I also do not know if I want to pursue it with the Ped or just get some resources for myself to learn to help him better. Any incite you have would be helpful.

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If you actually want it sorted out, you'd need a psych.  The ped can screen and give meds, yes.  Won't change how you teach or give you the further information a psych would and won't tell you if there are some things to a clinical level there (missing social cues, etc.) that could use some intervention or result in a different label.  You might put your ear to the ground on the psych.  By the time you get in, he'd be 7.  

 

In the meantime, you might try some metronome work to work on that impulsivity and EF.  Won't cost you anything.  Heathermomster here has described it.

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Thank you for responding Elizabeth.

 

I will search out the metronome work you mentioned and talk to DH about the psych. I do think it is something we should work with him on (in a more pointed way than we have been), but I am unsure about medicating him.

 

Sorry for my ignorance, but I am new to this section of the forum...what does EF stand for?

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EF=executive function.  Typically all a ped does is give an EF survey and talk with you.  I agree, there's a LOT you can do before stepping in with meds.  I'm not anti-meds based on a person's choice.  It's just there are more options.  Neurofeedback, Interactive Metronome, OT eval to check for retained primitive reflexes, therapy for the social stuff, MORE EXERCISE (lots more, LOTS more), omega 3, more salad and whole foods in his diet.  

 

Something as simple as omega 3 can make a big difference.  It's not about one magic, natural, miracle pill cure but just several things working together that add up to a child who can be functional and happy and workable without meds.  Not everyone can be, and I'm not slamming meds.  I'm just agreeing that you do have options.  Going to a psych for an eval is not asking for meds.  It's asking for help and options and more understanding of what all is going on.

 

Neurofeedback is really fascinating btw.  Haven't done it, but the research shows it to be extraordinarily effective.  Guffanti, in his book "Does Your Child Really Have ADHD" (which you'd find very helpful and encouraging btw!) suggests an alternative called Play Attention.  I havent' even checked into it yet.  The trick on some of these therapies is to figure out whether you're dealing with apsie/ASD or adhd.  Just from watching people on the boards, it seems like some of the things recommended for adhd *don't* work well if the dc is aspie/ASD.  That goes back to the psych eval though and letting them sort it out for you.  

 

 

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Sounds like all my boys with ADHD...except the incessant talking, which surfaced as part of NLD (nonverbal learning disorder) with my youngest. NLD usually presents with math and handwriting issues, but you didn't mention any of that. I find the constant talking one of the most difficult symptoms to deal with, myself. :banghead:   Hang in there, and jot down the symptoms as you recognize them, very important for evaluations. How are his social skills? Does he have friends? Does he annoy others? How about impatience (waiting in line, etc.)?  How does he handle frustration? These are all areas to be observed. I think intervention is extremely important, ADHD can really derail  a positive self-image and the belief that one can be successful in life. For many, lives are in the balance.

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Geo: He does have handwriting issues, but not math issues. Handwriting issues seem to be a challenge for most of our family though, so it is not just him. He is however the child with the most trashed and scribbled on workbooks. I often have to repair his workbooks. I also have to erase the scribbles from the page we want to work on today that he chose to scribble all over the day before.

 

His social skills are lacking in the sense that he doesn't grasp many social cues. The interrupting, blurting out random stuff at inappropriate times, and incessant talking mainly. He is very friendly and loves to converse with people of all ages. He is not afraid of talking to strangers and he enjoys making people laugh. He is also blunt though and can hurt people's feelings. He usually is unaware that the comment he made will hurt their feelings and is just "stating a fact". eg. "Your teeth are crooked, you might want to get braces"...etc. He is also very sensitive and feels very badly if someone doesnt like him. He cries very easily if we are displeased with him. He does have friends, but playdates often have some strife because my other son is 2 years younger, has better social skills, and sometimes they forget that 3 can play together. My older son is often upset during these times because the kids are playing something else (that is not what he would want to play) and he feels they dont want to play with him.

 

He does annoy others by talking about topics they are not interested in without ceasing (lack of social cue).

 

He does have some patience, but it is short. He can wait in line if it is a length he can handle. Usually he will stay in the line, but will fidget and complain loudly or completely space out.

 

He doesnt handle frustration well. He has a bad temper. He will easily freak out and yell, turn red in the face, and cry. We often have him calm down in his room before we can help him through what is frustrating him.

 

He also feels he is stupid. His sister is very advanced and his younger brother seems to be advanced too. He is stuck in the middle. I have purchased different curriculum for him so they cannot compare each other, and while it has helped, it is not perfect. I never discuss who is behind or ahead of another in any subject with any of the kids, but they somehow figure out how to compare themselves and compete with each other. So I am a little worried about the self image thing.

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Let me know what you find out. You just described my oldest DD :p Most adults in her life find the random thought thing endearing. I have a hard time with the constant talking though. I've got an OT eval for her in October for motor issues. A psych eval is not possible right now. I've got to come up with the $$ for my third girl's psych eval next month. I always thought my oldest was just quirky and clumsy then I started reading up on SPD because of her sister. Oldest has a lot of similarities with Dyspraxia and after the OT saw her playing with her sister she suggested an eval for motor issues. I'm hoping she can shed some light on the behaviors you mentioned as well. So, no help, just a shout out that I feel your frustrations :)

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I think you need an evaluation too. You've got flags I see in my spectrum son, though he has ADHD too. I think you've got enough range of issues, particularly the social/nonverbal things which seem to be a lot of it, to warrant evaluation.

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Have you consider social skills group? My son was like yours at some points last year when he was 6.5yo. He is not hyper but inattentive sometimes. He does not dx with ADHD but we do suspend that he may have minor ADD as he has attention issue especially on literature. He likes to talk about his own things no matter who he is talking to. He started social skills group once a week last October in a private pych/social worker clinic and joint friendship club in school as well. The situation has been improved a lot. His talking is more on topic now and it also reflects on his writing as well. He starts to have a little bit "conversation" when talking but not "one way talking show". Our insurance covers the cost of social skills group.

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I just have two comments.

 

One, those Tiger Cubs are ones whose parents, overall, thought they would succeed in Tiger Cubs. So it is not totally pre-screened, but it is somewhat pre-screened. I know bc I have kept my son out so far for immaturity and knowing it would not be a good fit right now.

 

Two, I have just read the Tony Attwood book about Apergers, and he says that some children are later than others in developing their interior voice. So that little voice we think in our heads with, for them is talking out loud. I have been around kids who seem like that and it is a really good perspective for me to think that possibly that is the reason for the running commentary.

 

I also think it would be good to seek help, bc it is not good he is comparing himself poorly with his siblings, and feeling bad when playdates shift to his brother. I think that is a reason to lean towards a more pro-active approach.

 

I am also going to share, that last year we filled out a parent screening for ADD for my son, at the request of his teacher at school. Before we gave consent my husband and I fought over whether or not to consent. Then we fought over whether or not we would consider medication. Etc etc etc. It was very threatening. And guess what? The screening came back showing he does not have ADD.

 

Whatever was going on is still going on, we are still figuring it out. But all the discussions about ADD were a waste of time.

 

So my take-away is, wait to see if it is ADD/ADHD before you make a plan for what treatments you and your husband do and don't think are acceptable. Someone gave me the advice of taking it one step at a time and knowing I could proceed from least to most for interventions, and that was good advice for me (at the point my husband and I were disagreeing about random things that might come up).

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We have military insurance. For us I would say -- I do a little research and then ask for a referral to a certain thing. To some extent I don't really expect her to recommend a referral to me I don't bring up. Bc -- a lot of things, they are somewhat going by parent report and if you don't mention it they don't know.

 

Some people take their list of concerns to the ped and then trust the ped to make the appropriate referral.

 

Some people call the clinic they want to go to and ask what their intake procedure is. Then if you need a referral for the clinic or for insurance, you take that info to the ped. Maybe the ped agrees on it, maybe the ped offers an alternative. Either way you have more info in making decisions.

 

In checking for my son I have found out a certain clinic will have parents fill out a questionairre and look at records, and from there decide what areas to focus on. So they don't need me to know ahead of time. Some places seem like they want you to come in with a focus, and we are really not sure. (Basically we would think dyslexia or dysgraphia, but my son is an autism sibling and that raises his chance of ASD, so we are hearing some advice to check for it for that reason. And at this clinic we can do it all at once.

 

It was easy with my younger son bc we really knew he has autism and going to the clinic was just a check mark. With my older son it seems a lot harder bc it is not obvious.

 

The clinic we would go to is 2 hours away, which makes it hard to find things out informally. Closer places don't seem like they can address everything that needs to be addressed, bc they seem more specialized.

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beishan "one way talking show" is very correctly put. That is exactly how he is. I will add social skills group to the list of things to check into.

 

Lecka I know that the tiger cubs are not a sampling of all 6yo boys, but it was the eye opener for my DH. I am the one who teaches him and who takes him to speech (he is a tongue thruster). I would talk about my concerns with DH but he just didnt get it until now. Now that he goes to cub scouts with DS he sees the difference himself. I have always seen how impulsive and inattentive he is and just worked with it the best I could. Now DH is asking what we should do about it, that is why I came to ask over here. All that to say, I understand what you are saying about you and your DH not agreeing. We are just coming to agree to do anything at all over here about it.

 

The last time I was at the ped with DS the Dr did hint at ADHD with him, but we were having a family crisis and I just couldnt go there at the time. I just blew him off. Now that the crisis has subsided I am realizing that we cannot continue to have our heads in the sand about it and need to do something more for him. I really do not think it is bad enough for meds, but probably some social skills therapy or something of that nature would be helpful.

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Btw, I mentioned the therapies mainly because when you start looking into them it leads you to psychs or OTs you wouldn't have found otherwise.  I'm with Lecka that I'd want an eval before I did anything and that it would be unwise to assume something and move forward.  You could be totally incorrect and waste a lot of time and money going the wrong direction.  

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Elizabeth- I know that I do not know exactly what is up with him and I will not try to treat him as though I do. I understand the evaluation has to come first. You have no idea how much I understand about not letting the ped diagnose him. The family crisis I mentioned earlier had to do with a family prac dr misdiagnosing and prescribing a med to a family member that resulted in a trip to the psych ward in the ER. That is a place I would prefer to not visit with another family member again! It took us 3 months to work through the aftermath.

 

Lecka-it is nice. It came about partly because of what our family went through this spring which softened him to looking into help when it is warranted and seeing the issues himself at cub scout camp. I guess it is the silver lining.

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I also think you should get a diagnosis.  Your son sounds to me like someone who could possibly have Aspergers and ADHD.  That is just a guess though and as I am not an educational psychologist my guess doesn't mean much.:) I thought my dd had Aspergers and dysgraphia.  When I had her tested she has ADHD, with dyslexic tendencies and a math LD. So sometimes it is quite different than what we thought.  It is also good to know so you can make appropriate accomodations in your child's schoolwork.  Also if your son decides to go on to college he will need that diagnosis so that he can recieve appropriate accomodations.  Same as if he were to ever go to public school.

 

We chose not to medicate dd but instead give her vitamins that are specially formulated for children with ADHD.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I found this cheaper but similar version of IM for iPhones and iPads:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/measuring-metronome/id676748179?mt=8

 

It is not as fancy but does the same thing

 

Ok, since all your posts say the same thing, are you the developer of the app?  If you are, might be more in your interest to just give us the app for free on the boards here for a day and let people try it.  Then you'd have some reviews.   :)

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  • 1 year later...

*Update*

So it has been a year and a half since you all took the time to reply to this thread I started. I have been lurking over here since, but I wanted to give an (rather pathetic) update. Unfortunately, I spoke too soon on the stability of my relative, and there were relapses. It ended up that we needed to spend the time over the last year getting more assistance with that. Now I feel we are really ready to make an effort to move forward for DS. I feel bad that we had to put it off for so long, but well...sometimes the family member who is most needy has to be helped first. 

 

Anyway, we are moving forward now. DS has a pedi appointment in 2 weeks and we will be discussing the concerns we have and get the referrals we need. Since the Ped has already noticed things without my saying anything, I am optimistic that he will be very cooperative.

 

In the meantime I have been researching and reading and working with him as best I can. I am very please with his improvement in school and focus in his schoolwork. He has come a long way. He enjoys reading now, his handwriting is legible and he is learning cursive, he is able to focus much better, and he is more positive about his abilities. He is no longer calling himself stupid and feels confident about school.

 

But! As his peers get older and are maturing in their social skills, it is becoming more and more obvious that DS is very behind socially. He makes little to no eye contact, he talks AT people still and very loudly, he is still fascinated about mechanical things, he still struggles with understanding the feelings of others, he still doesnt get social cues, he is pretty much socially clueless. These are my main concerns now. I am no longer worried so much about school. I am worried about him becoming a social outcast. He loves people and seeks them out, but he bores them to tears by going on and on and on. He also still needs help with his frustration and outbursts. I have also noticed that some sounds send him into meltdowns. If I take him grocery shopping with me, he plugs his ears when I wheel the cart back to the car. He doesnt like the sound of the wheels on the asphalt. He doesnt like his 3yo brother's tantrums and will cry or even explode himself if brother has had too many fits that day. He has also exploded twice at dance class this year. Once because another really sweet little boy was trying to help my son (who is very awkward at dance, but loves it) get to the right spot in the lineup because he could tell DS was lost. DS misunderstood him and thought he was being mean and went from 0-100 screaming, red in face, etc. The second time was because he got tape on his clothes....caused him to flip out!

 

So yep, still need help!  I am sure I will be spending more time here as we begin the process of evaluation and getting therapy or help of some sort. I also hope that having this information will get my extended family to be more understanding and helpful rather than judgmental...but that is a whole 'nuther thread!

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Glad you're back and able to work on this!  Other people said this already, but I'll say it again.  You REALLY want to ask for a referral to a neuropsychologist (or developmental ped or...) rather than stopping with a diagnosis from your ped.  ADHD may not be a complete explanation for what you're describing.  Your state may have funding to help pay for therapies and interventions. 

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Yes, you need an entire workup, not just ADHD with a pediatrician. This is the point at which we realized that ADHD may be a piece, but more was going on, and treating with the presumption of ADHD might mask what we needed to be seeing in order to figure out the rest. Your phrasing of some of your concerns and your general description almost exactly describes where we were at about two years ago.

 

It sounds like you are doing a terrific job reaching figuring out how to reach him academically if school is settling down. I don't want that to get lost in the shuffle of comments--good job! 

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OhElizabeth...That is the plan. I do not think the Dr. could give me the help we need. Although I am happy with what I have been able to help DS with at home in regards to his school work and focus, I am out of my element with the social stuff. I have tried to talk to DS about looking people in the eyes when he talks, about taking turns when talking etc. but he doesnt seem to understand. Clueless, intense, smart, and verbose all describe him well. Talking to the pedi will hopefully give me some referrals to psychologist or neuro or something. Having the Dr. just label him doesnt give me what I need. I need more skills and help to help DS. It is getting to the point where he seeks out adults to talk at because kids dont want to listen to him. And strangers are coming up and asking me if he has been diagnosed yet :-(

 

Thanks kbutton. I am happy he is doing better! It is making life much easier for both of us.

 

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Reading through the list in the first post I must say I recognised many/most of the symptoms described, however there may be more aspects to consider.

 

The treatment options to the ADHD is basically either medication or behaviour modification (mainly yours and the teachers, more than the student). The behaviour modification aspects is in any case something worth looking into in any case as there are suggestions that may prove somewhat helpful in any child. Medication we chose to not do unless things got worse, which they have not.

 

It seems to be a general view that things improve as they get older with marked improvement as they approach the teens, in our case that has also been so, even if there are still symptoms remaining they are not as strong as before. Of course this may be simply that the children learn to mask the symptoms, but the underlying problem may remain.

 

It seems to me that your intended actions are steps in the right direction, in order to better understand the situation, which is necessary to figure out how you can best help him going forward.

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I would definitely read up on NLD (non verbal learning disorder). It's not the same as Auspergers athough you may find articles talking about both. I will say not all doctors are familiar with this, so make sure if you read up on it and think you hit a lot of the signs, make sure the specialist you go to understands and knows how to diagnose it. I have a child with diagnosed ADHD and a different one with diagnosis of nonverbal. Your comments sound a lot like the nonverbal side (poor eye contact, poor social awarwness). You can also Google to see is it Nonverbal vs adhd and see the differences explained. This helped to tease it out too. Good luck!

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Thanks. I will look into NLD next. I appreciate all the information you all are helping me with. Some of the help I was given a year and a half ago gave me understanding and tools to help him improve in schoolwork. Now that we are moving forward to get further assistance, I am again so thankful for all the information you guys share.

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I was just reading some MIT research showing 50%-ish of kids do improve but the other half distinctly DO NOT.  And even in the half for whom the attention symptoms improve, the EF issues still remain.

 

This is very interesting.

 

My own hypothesis is that kids who do well with modifications (esp. ones that involve parents and teacher the most) are eventually going to hit a point when they can't function, and the later they hit this point, the harder the struggle is going to be. It will be harder to acknowledge a deficit (they can blame the increasing demands or simply be clueless that they are not doing as well as they should be), harder for them to not just feel like a total failure when it's "worked up until now," harder to get help (they may be working FT, going to college, parenting, etc.). I think that long-term significant scaffolding without meds is kind of kicking the can down the road, but maybe that's just me. I mean, part of the whole thing is that some of these kids lack an ability to accurately reflect on and evaluate their behavior (esp. in the moment, but often even in the past or near past), and that is really annoying to deal with. Really annoying. 

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Many kids with ADHD don't have the behavioral symptoms you're describing.  Many people live into adulthood unmedicated and don't mind and make it work.  

 

The curiosity to me with that article was the idea that it *could* seem to improve for some people.  Must be a variant I've never seen, lol.  And their research showed that even where it "seemed" to improve it will still there, bold as brass, neurologically, and the EF issues were still there as well. 

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Many kids with ADHD don't have the behavioral symptoms you're describing. Many people live into adulthood unmedicated and don't mind and make it work.

 

The curiosity to me with that article was the idea that it *could* seem to improve for some people. Must be a variant I've never seen, lol. And their research showed that even where it "seemed" to improve it will still there, bold as brass, neurologically, and the EF issues were still there as well.

I guess I know of people who have tried meds as an adult because that is when they hit a point where things were problematic. I also know people who aren't really happy with their functioning but aren't really open to the idea that they could do something about it. Adults I know with meds feel that they are benefiting from them.

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I was just reading some MIT research showing 50%-ish of kids do improve but the other half distinctly DO NOT. And even in the half for whom the attention symptoms improve, the EF issues still remain.

My son's pediatric neurologist said something similar. I think she has higher number like 65%. We first went to her last summer to diagnose my son' ADD. She said he is minor and not at the point of medication. She recommaneded counseling and social skills which we have been doing since he was 7. She mentioned 65% of children with minor ADD can end up out growing (or maybe found a way to accommodate) at forth grade so she wants a follow-up to see how he will perform at third grade. We just went the followup last Friday and she thinks he is doing fine. He picked up third grade school works very well with even less support at school as some of subjects are full on grade level. We will have his third grade teacher fill the questionnaire again to compare with teachers response last year. We knew he is still inattentive sometimes but he is able to pull back himself now.

He has come a long way with his social skills. We are doing social skills since first grade and now we can see the result. His conversation with other gets more two ways when he turns 8.

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I guess I know of people who have tried meds as an adult because that is when they hit a point where things were problematic. I also know people who aren't really happy with their functioning but aren't really open to the idea that they could do something about it. Adults I know with meds feel that they are benefiting from them.

So with the adults you know on meds, are they doing them for actual hyperactivity/inattention or more for their EF issues?  See what's odd to me, is adults getting slapped with meds with NO psych eval, NO EF counseling at all, when their complaints are EF.  

 

Conversely, I know lots of unmedicated adults with ADHD, and they seem to find healthful ways to "harness their H."  They must have also learned some EF skills along the way, because they make it work.  

 

I think the worst scenario is unDIAGNOSED, not necessarily unmedicated.  Undiagnosed, they get no instruction on EF, recognizing their issues, nothing.  

 

Even some kids with meds aren't getting that assistance, meaning they aren't learning the skills they need.  I had a friend in high school who was severely depressed who felt like her diagnosis and being put on meds in elementary meant she was defective. (somehow they presented it or she interpreted it that way) Then they yanked her meds, saying she was all better (which of course that research shows is not the case, it didn't just GO AWAY) and gave her no EF support and she was struggling in high school.  

 

We discuss meds all the time in our home and I'm not anti-meds.  I just think these contradictions are curious.

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They are for sure using it for EF, some maybe for H--hard to know if the person wasn't to start with. I know more about people who are impulsive and inattentive but not H. I think most adults i know that were hyperactive as kids do learn to channel the H, but I know a lot of people that probably fit this category that are very, very high IQ across the board and across their family, and I think it makes a difference when expectations are very high and everyone else in the family is like you in this way. It's been multi-generational, and they always have the best stories (and pictures) of their youth (if you don't have to live with those consequences, lol). But, I come from a part of the country that really personifies high work ethic and offers a lot of physical outlets in daily life--being able to walk all over town, cut wood, milk the cows and toss hay at a friend's house, hike, bike, swim, fish, hunt. Stuff that just happens every day; it's not an environment that requires signing up for exercise classes and such to get all that energy out.

 

I am not trying to be argumentative--I'm just at a point where I see people who are not willing to consider meds. They don't realize the massive energy they are exerting to keep the wheels on the bus. They don't see how much more difficult their kids (or spouses, or whomever) are to deal with, talk with, etc. It makes me sad. And so much of it is familial that they don't see it like an outsider would (well, I was this way, and I turned out fine...two marriages, 8 job switches where they were "misunderstood", 5 speeding tickets, hair-raising debt, and 2 car crashes later...).

 

 

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For me the medication involves an ethical problem in my case, at least until they are old enough to understand the implications themselves.

 

That it is manageable and improving in my case is also a factor, and decision would probably have been different if this was not the case.

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Yes, we definitely should not medicate our spouses without telling them.

 

:lol:   

 

Can you imagine?  Like here honey, have this coffee cappucino overload dunked in chocolate breakfast roll...  You'll love it...  

 

Nah, I get what you mean.  Everybody comes out at their own place.  Just funny to think about.  

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You might want to look at socialthinking.com  They have a really good reputation locally.  We are using the pre-school program and I like it.  They have more for older kids.  

 

There are speech therapists, psychologists, and school counselors who might use these products, similar products, or might have designed their own, or might have some ways to work with kids and experience.  

 

There is also Zones of Regulation, that I hear good things about.  It is on amazon.com. 

 

Our school district uses The 5-Point Scale by Kari Dunn Buron.  

 

These are the kinds of things you may end up looking for, regardless of diagnosis.  They are all used for a variety of children.  

 

If you are not familiar with pragmatic speech -- it can have to do with turn-taking in a conversation, staying on topic, noticing when another person is no longer interested, and things like that.  I had never heard of it and didn't know it was part of speech therapist for a long time.  

 

There are people here who have used these things with their kids (well, not The 5-Point Scale -- I think just hear about it through our school district).  The Zones of Regulation and socialthinking.com products -- yes.  There are other similar things out there -- if you think this is the kind of thing you want, you can definitely post questions about these kinds of things :)

 

Good luck!  I am happy to hear his academics are no longer a concern -- that is nice!  I'm sorry some other areas are still of concern, but there are things out there that exist, and that is always comforting I think.  

 

It sounds like he might be sensitive to loud noises, too, or to store lighting -- you might look up some sensory stuff.  Sometimes little things can really help.  I do not know as much about it, but there are books like the Out-of-Sync Child that is about that.  If you looked it up on Amazon, you might see other similar books that might be good.  I do not know as much about this area.  (I have not read it, but I like the picture on Raising a Sensory Smart Child much better, and it has great reviews. I have looked through the Out-of-Sync Child and been put off by the glum-looking child on the cover.  But -- the Out-of-Sync Child was the one I kept hearing about a few years ago.  It seemed like it was also just about the only book available at the time.)  

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Thank you lecka. I will look into the things you have mentioned.

 

as far as medication...I am not really opposed to medication. The family member I have referred to on here a bit, is being medicated with great results. The complication with medicating DS is that the problem with family member is genetic. We have been advised by family member's psychiatrist and physiologist not to medicate the children unless we absolutely cannot manage in any other way. This genetic problem could be masked and or misrepresented (in the future if it one of the DC had it) or triggered by the wrong meds. And while DS is struggling socially, I dont feel that we are in the place where it is time to pull the meds trigger. We have not started outside help, evaluations, etc. That will be our first step...meds will be the last if nothing works and it seemed warranted. So for me, yes I care about DS and I am not clueless as to what appears normal or abnormal in my family, but there are risks, and I have to weigh the risks with the consequences of not medicating.

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Bluemongoose, have you looked into Cogmed?  I'm looking into it based on Soror's feedback.  Well that and that both psychs I've taken my kids to have recommended it, lol.  The psych I talked with tonight said it's basically as effective as meds (similar results, works for a similar percentage of people).  Cogmed pushes attention *and* working memory, where meds push only attention.  

 

Just something to look into.  There's also neurofeedback.  The research on that is newer and I can't find a provider locally I feel really confident about.  I definitely think the theory of neurofeedback makes sense.  It seems to take a lot of sessions and I'm not sure it's necessarily more effective than Cogmed, which has similar affects on attention AND hits working memory AND can be done at home one your computer (instead of with all those pesky office visits like neurofeedback).  

 

At least it's nice to know you have options.

 

Oh sorry, missed the 6.5.  The psych said what I was thinking, that he likes to see the kids be *at least* 8 for Cogmed, that earlier they just aren't ready to operate and do it.  If it goes well for my dd, I think I'll plan on it for my ds around 10.  With his social delays and whatnot, I think that's just iffy to try 8 for him.

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Looking at your newer update post, I would not even count on/expect them to recommend medication.  Maybe they will, maybe not.  

 

My older son had a screening for ADD/ADHD, and we had to sign a paper (through school) to allow the screening (it was for the classroom teacher and I to each fill out a questionnaire) and my husband and I had a lot of debates about whether or not we should sign the paper.  My husband was very concerned about medications and thought it was the first step and would definitely lead to pressure to medicate.  Etc, etc.  

 

Then when we got the results, the school psychologist told us that he didn't have ADD/ADHD.  At the meeting I asked him directly if it was anything medication would possibly help (it was on our minds so I wanted to know), and he told me no, medication would do nothing for him.  His classroom teacher was very surprised, she thought it would be ADD/ADHD.  I also know a few kids who do take medication for ADD/ADHD at his school, so it is not that they do not recommend it to anyone.  (Some OT issues were identified and he went to OT -- it helped a lot.)

 

My younger son is also someone where some children with his diagnosis (autism) use medication.  When he was first diagnosed, I asked several people working with him about it. They all agreed they just did not think he showed any signs of needing medication, and they didn't think he needed it at all, or would benefit in anyway.  They also told me about the kinds of reasons other kids might be medicated -- and none apply to my son.  

 

So I would really just not expect it too much.  You say he completes his school work fine, so there is that.  Then for sensory sensitivity (with the loud noises) I do not think medication is used for that, except I have heard of it when there is also anxiety, but then it is for the anxiety -- anxiety and sensory sensitivity can go together.  I hear really good things about anxiety medication.  As far as talking at people -- my cousin was helped some by his anxiety medication for this, when he started it, it turned out a small part of it was that he was anxious.  But he was anxious anyway  - that was not the reason he tried the medicine.  

 

Then for minor (and I think it would be considered minor in the terms people use to talk about behavior) behavior/self-regulation challenges, depending on what else they see, just for that -- medication does not help that (if there is something underlying for it to help, that is different).  That is when the 5-Point Scale or Zones of Regulation or other "let's talk to a counselor" things seem like what they say is going to help with that, here.  Maybe they recommend environmental modifications (you change something in places/situations where he is known to struggle) or they teach him strategies he can use and get to the point he uses them, or you go through some books with him.  

 

So -- I am just mentioning this, b/c I think medication is a great tool when it is available and side effects will not be too bad etc.  But I spent about a month worrying about it, just b/c in my mind I thought "if you are even talking to the school psychologist he is going to recommend some medication" and it turned out -- I was way off base on that.  

 

I hope you can get referrals from your pediatrician, and schedule them soon, whatever he/she recommends!  Good luck!    

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OhElizabeth...he has just turned 8yo. When I started the thread 1.5 years ago he was 6.5 :-) I have never heard of Cogmed, but I would look into it.

 

Lecka you hit the nail on the head. DH and I are very concerned about med pushing and moving forward with evals. I know we need more help, so we are pushing forward (pedi app in a week for referrals) but we have been anxious about the med aspect. It is nice to hear that we may not need to feel apprehensive about this. And I honestly don't feel that he is needing meds from what I can tell. I think he needs social skills help...but I am no expert.

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Neither neuropsych I've used so far has recommended meds for my kids.  It was almost like to them homeschooling meant meds weren't necessary, haha, that we could just modify and accommodate more than schools and make problems go away.

 

Just saying they vary.  There ARE some practitioners who will act like you're sinning against G*d himself not to do meds.  (Literally, I had someone tell me I was HARMING my child not giving meds!!!)  The psychs though seem to be pretty pragmatic, like as long as it's working they don't care.

 

It's normal to be scared of evals, but the wise thing is to push and get them.  If you have social issues, it's time.  My ds has a social *delay* with his ADHD and the psych recommended a social skills playgroup.  It was an inbetween option we hadn't thought about.  You just never know what they'll say, but they'll be saying it straight, seeing the kid, and trying to help you.  

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 Even if you get advice to consider medication, it is still up to *you and your husband* and you are free to say "thanks for your opinion" and walk away if you choose.  Or you can wait 5 years and then decide the time is right.  You are in the drivers seat while he is a young child.  

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mini update

 

DS had his appointment with the pedi today. He has referred us to a phycologist. He wants him seen first by someone who is more qualified to make a decision on whether or not he needs a referral for evaluations or if he just needs some counceling to work on social skills and anger management. So at least we are making a first step. I think he wants to make sure he is being seen for counceling to manage his mood while we work through deciding whatever else we need to do.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update!

 

We had our initial evaluation with a child phsycologist. She agrees that the only diagnosis that seems to fit DS is aspergers. She also said that the initial pedi's diagnosis 2 years ago of ADHD doesnt fit. She is recommending getting the full evaluation done by the neurophsyc, still working on DH for that one (he is still a bit unsettled about the informal diagnosis and is half in denial).  Bascially I was thinking on the right track I guess. I mean 2 years ago it did look like ADHD, but now it really has changed and I was wondering if it was aspergers after all. I have checked out Tony Attwoods book on Aspergers so I have a start on reading up. The diagnosis really does seem to fit DS the more I read...I would be content leaving it with that and not subjecting him to the full evaluation except for the lack of social skills groups. The phsycologist said he would need that official diagnosis to gain access to the groups. So I think we should push forward, but like I said DH is hesitant. In the meantime, the phsychologist will work with him doing roll playing and such.

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