These GPA suggestions don't make sense...

[Kathie in VA]

I was reading Transcripts Made Easy by Janice Campbell. On p53 it talks about GPA and cumulative GPA.

According to this the GPA is calculated by adding the total number of Grade Points and dividing by the total number of classes taken. The seem to use this for individual semesters.

And the Cumulative GPA is calculated by adding the total number of Grade Points for the whole transcript and dividing by the total number of Units or credits earned.

 

This seems weird to me. Why would you do the GPA like this (ie dividing by the number of classes and not taking into account the credits earned)? The Cum GPA makes sense but I don't understand why I would use this GPA calculation??

 

Also, the examples on pages 80 and 81 show a 1/2 credit class with a grade of A getting 4 GPA points. Then the next semester shows the other 1/2 credit of that class with a grade of A getting 4 GPA points ??? so the whole class gets 1 credit and 8 GPA points ... (that's what's on pages 80 and 81). hmm, really? I would have given 4 points for getting an A in the 1 credit class. :confused:

[Murphy101]

An A = 4 PTs

 

Points are based on grade, not credit.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I agree with what you are saying, Kathie. It sounds like she is grading per semester, and to accurately reflect the GPA, she would have to divide her final total in half (for half a year). I gave grades per year on dd's transcript. Classes that were 1/2 credit (health) were given, for example, 2 pts. for an A instead of 4. (Huh. It never dawned on me to give one grade per semester.)

 

It sounds like she's making things more complicated than necessary.

[Murphy101]

I don't list classes by semester or year.

 

My courses are listed subject.

 

For example:

 

Math percentage grade number or credits it was worth (.5, 1, 3) and GPA (1-4).

 

I never other listing a letter grade, just percentage earned.

 

A math final grade of 70% would be a 2.0. Doesn't matter if it is a .5 credit course or a 3 credit course.

 

The total accumulated GPA at the bottom of the transcript adds up all the credits and adds up all the points, the points are divided by the credits.

 

So 7 courses worth 6.5 credits

With 80, 80, 80, 90, 90, 90, 70 = (3x3)+(3x4)+2=23/6.5 = accumulated GPA of 3.54 (if you round up)

 

How many credits something is isn't about how long the course was necessarily. It's about the content and hours of work required.

 

A 1 semester course at the college is worth 3 credits.

A 1 semester elective at home is worth .5

A year long course at home is worth 1

 

To give a 2 for an A in a course implies they only earned a 70%

 

There are some deviations from this, buti wouldn't make it too complicated. Because somewhere on that transcript you need to explain your point system and because many colleges just take the percentage grade and recalculate the points on their own system anyways.

 

Just my opinion and method. Ymmv.

 

Sorry if I made any errors. Haven't had coffee yet. :)

[Murphy101]

Oh and I haven't read the book. I did my research online. All the transcript sites for "making it easy" we're PITAs and made it more complicated than it has to be imnsho.

[Jane in NC]

Ultimately you just need to find what works for you, be consistent and supply a key so that other people reading the transcript are not as puzzled as you were when reading the transcript book!

 

I give letter grades--not percentages. If you student is taking outside courses at a CC, for example, he or she will be given letter grades--not percentages. Consistency is important to me.

 

(Side note: I would never have been able to give percentages when grading an essay or certain foreign language assignments. I gave grades in Latin because I had some background in it but gave a Pass in French since I was learning it along side my son. A grade of P did not enter into the cumulative GPA.)

[Kathie in VA]

I do think that it is harder to earn an A in a one year/ 1 credit class then in a 1/2 credit class and that this should be reflected in the GPA.

 

I also organized the transcript by subject.  I was only planning on including a Cum GPA for the whole thing... there seems to be agreement that this does incorporate the credits earned... and doesn't just count the number of classes taken.  Now that I see that some put a semester GPA, I might add in a subject GPA... but I will still calculate with the credits earned.  I could have set things up to have multiple 1/2 credit classes and if I just count classes then the GPA changes 

 

I don't think we are all on the same page.  

 

class   score        grade        units/credits       points        Grade-points

           earned      earned       earned              earned      earned

math      90             A                1                     4                 (4*1)=4

eng        80             B                1                     3                 (3*1)=3

logic      90              A                .5                    4                 (4*.5)=2

 

I would calculate GPA = (4+3+2)/[number of classes = 3] = 9/3 = 3.0

<ETA here the credits are calculated into the Grade points earned and then the GPA is an average of the Grade Points Earned>

 

What I saw in the book would have a GPA = (sum of points earned 4+3+4) / (number of classes = 3) = 11/3 = 3.66

 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

I do think that it is harder to earn an A in a one year/ 1 credit class then in a 1/2 credit class and that this should be reflected in the GPA.

 

I also organized the transcript by subject.  I was only planning on including a Cum GPA for the whole thing... there seems to be agreement that this does incorporate the credits earned... and doesn't just count the number of classes taken.  Now that I see that some put a semester GPA, I might add in a subject GPA... but I will still calculate with the credits earned.  I could have set things up to have multiple 1/2 credit classes and if I just count classes then the GPA changes 

 

I don't think we are all on the same page.  

 

class   score        grade        units/credits       points        Grade-points

           earned      earned       earned              earned      earned

math      90             A                1                     4                 (4*1)=4

eng        80             B                1                     3                 (3*1)=3

logic      90              A                .5                    4                 (4*.5)=2

 

I would calculate GPA = (4+3+2)/[number of classes = 3] = 9/3 = 3.0

 

What I saw in the book would have a GPA = (sum of points earned 4+3+4) / (number of classes = 3) = 11/3 = 3.66

In your above sample, I would get a 3.6 GPA.

 

(4+3+2) divided by the number of credits - 2.5

 

I've never seen it done differently than the "grade points" divided by the number of credits.

[elegantlion]

Donna Young has a nice page on calculating GPA. http://donnayoung.org/forms/help/highsc.htm

[Murphy101]

The college here is weird. All the courses get a letter. But there is a range between say 3 and 4. A letter of B does not automatically mean 3.0. It could be 3.6 for example. So obviously someone somewhere is keeping a percentage grade somewhere. And do farc with 1 exception, my kids have been able to track their percentage grades with points achieved/points possible.

 

Also, something worth less credit is not necessarily easier. Carnegie credits are also based on hours taken. Also, they usually have less chances for grades. Over 18 weeks, one flub assignment usually won't sink the course grade. Over 9 weeks, one flub can sink the grade and be hard to impossible to recover.

 

I have never seen a GPA not calculated by total points/total credits. I've heard of letters vs percentage. Weighted grades. Slight variations in how to attribute the percentage to points.

 

But the points/credits seems very much the standard?

[Jane in NC]

Some colleges assign honor points to pluses and minuses. As an instructor I have never been asked to turn in percentages to college registrars--only letter grades.

[Murphy101]

Anything I don't think I can give an honest grade on, I either leave off or outsource. :)

 

My oldest had done "P" courses, but they were usually subjects that one doesn't usually get a grades for. Ballroom dancing. HAM radio civil defense & rescue training. Archery.

 

Not saying Jane was wrong. She isn't. Just posing another POV on approach. :)

[Jane in NC]

Anything I don't think I can give an honest grade on, I either leave off or outsource. :)

 

My oldest had done "P" courses, but they were usually subjects that one doesn't usually get a grades for. Ballroom dancing. HAM radio civil defense & rescue training. Archery.

 

Not saying Jane was wrong. She isn't. Just posing another POV on approach. :)

Geography plays such a part in this. Some of us don't have access to co-ops or have a community college with a wide variety of foreign languages. Sometimes you do what you have to do. (And my son's placement score for French at his four year college demonstrated that what we did worked!)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't list classes by semester or year.

 

My courses are listed subject.

 

For example:

 

Math percentage grade number or credits it was worth (.5, 1, 3) and GPA (1-4).

 

I never other listing a letter grade, just percentage earned.

 

A math final grade of 70% would be a 2.0. Doesn't matter if it is a .5 credit course or a 3 credit course.

 

The total accumulated GPA at the bottom of the transcript adds up all the credits and adds up all the points, the points are divided by the credits.

 

So 7 courses worth 6.5 credits

With 80, 80, 80, 90, 90, 90, 70 = (3x3)+(3x4)+2=23/6.5 = accumulated GPA of 3.54 (if you round up)

 

How many credits something is isn't about how long the course was necessarily. It's about the content and hours of work required.

 

A 1 semester course at the college is worth 3 credits.

A 1 semester elective at home is worth .5

A year long course at home is worth 1

 

To give a 2 for an A in a course implies they only earned a 70%

 

There are some deviations from this, buti wouldn't make it too complicated. Because somewhere on that transcript you need to explain your point system and because many colleges just take the percentage grade and recalculate the points on their own system anyways.

 

Just my opinion and method. Ymmv.

 

Sorry if I made any errors. Haven't had coffee yet. :)

I realize that college courses are often 3 credit classes but I don't think those are the same credit units as high school credits. If they were then 2 semester classes would have the same weight as a full year of high school classes.

Most discussions of community college classes on high school transcripts that I've seen consider a semester class to be the same as .5-1.0 high school credits depending on the course.

If you were to grant 3 high credits per college semester then a year of foreign language at cc would equate to 6 years of high school study. College is at a higher level but I think this inflates the college courses too much.

[swimmermom3]

 

I agree with what you are saying, Kathie. It sounds like she is grading per semester, and to accurately reflect the GPA, she would have to divide her final total in half (for half a year). I gave grades per year on dd's transcript. Classes that were 1/2 credit (health) were given, for example, 2 pts. for an A instead of 4. (Huh. It never dawned on me to give one grade per semester.)

 

It sounds like she's making things more complicated than necessary.

 

[swimmermom3]

 

I was reading Transcripts Made Easy by Janice Campbell. On p53 it talks about GPA and cumulative GPA.

According to this the GPA is calculated by adding the total number of Grade Points and dividing by the total number of classes taken. The seem to use this for individual semesters.

And the Cumulative GPA is calculated by adding the total number of Grade Points for the whole transcript and dividing by the total number of Units or credits earned.

 

This seems weird to me. Why would you do the GPA like this (ie dividing by the number of classes and not taking into account the credits earned)? The Cum GPA makes sense but I don't understand why I would use this GPA calculation??

 

Also, the examples on pages 80 and 81 show a 1/2 credit class with a grade of A getting 4 GPA points. Then the next semester shows the other 1/2 credit of that class with a grade of A getting 4 GPA points ??? so the whole class gets 1 credit and 8 GPA points ... (that's what's on pages 80 and 81). hmm, really? I would have given 4 points for getting an A in the 1 credit class. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/confused.gif

 

[Julie in MN]

I realize that college courses are often 3 credit classes but I don't think those are

If you were to grant 3 high credits per college semester then a year of foreign language at cc would equate to 6 years of high school study. College is at a higher level but I think this inflates the college courses too much.

I had to figure this out this year, for ds's transcript when applying to a dual credit college. I went with 0.25 high school credit per college credit, and wrote that scale down where I wrote my grading scale (as well as writing that * = dual credit college courses). So his 3-credit college courses gave 0.75 high school credit each. The college asked nothing about the transcript -- I can't imagine any college would worry about that. I was happy with my decision :)

 

Julie

[Murphy101]

Yes. I know. That's why I said I didn't think you were wrong. I wasn't being critical at all. Just illustrating another approach. :)

 

Geography plays such a part in this. Some of us don't have access to co-ops or have a community college with a wide variety of foreign languages. Sometimes you do what you have to do. (And my son's placement score for French at his four year college demonstrated that what we did worked!)

[swimmermom3]

I agree with what you are saying, Kathie. It sounds like she is grading per semester, and to accurately reflect the GPA, she would have to divide her final total in half (for half a year). I gave grades per year on dd's transcript. Classes that were 1/2 credit (health) were given, for example, 2 pts. for an A instead of 4. (Huh. It never dawned on me to give one grade per semester.)

 

It sounds like she's making things more complicated than necessary.

 

Campbell's method is not complicated and is one of the standard formats used throughout the country. For a standard high school transcript, semesters make sense as not all classes are a year long. You are comparing equivalent units. What follows is my oldest's 9th grade scores from her official transcript:

 

Algebra 1             A             4         0.50

Art 1                     A             4         0.50

Biology                A              4         0.50

Global Study 9    A              4         0.50

Lit & Comp 9       A              4         0.50

Spanish 1            A              4         0.50

Theater Design 1 A             4         0.50

Algebra 1            B              3         0.50

Biology                A             3          0.50

Fitness and Movement A    4         0.50

Global Study 9    B             3          0.50

Health 1              B             3          0.50

Lit & Comp 9       B H         3          0.50 (unweighted here for honors)

Spanish 1           C             2          0.50

 

 

Dd earned seven credits and an unweighted GPA of 3.571.  She had a total of 50 grade points divided by 14 semester courses.

 

Semester grades can tell a more complete "story"  about a student and their ability in a course than a yearly grade can provide.  Let's say I have two students who each earned an "A" one semester and a "B" another semester in Algebra 2. Their overall grade for the year is exactly the same, but the semesters for their "A"s are flopped. If I am assessing these students and the probability they will succeed in Pre-Calculus, I am going to bet that the student with the "A" the second semester is the stronger student.

 

In a perfect world, your child is a rocket scientist and trauma has never visited your family. In that case, grade however you see fit for your goals, but if your child has a blip on the radar, you can use those semester grades to tell a more compelling story than a yearly GPA would show. The semester my dd was diagnosed with severe depression is the big fat zit on a relatively healthy transcript. The senior guidance counselor talked us through how to present that information to a college. She told us that colleges would be more interested in dd's "rockin" comeback the next fall after she had been receiving treatment. It many cases, falling isn't equivalent to failing. It really is all about what you do after you fall.

[Kathie in VA]

I agree with what you are saying, Kathie. It sounds like she is grading per semester, and to accurately reflect the GPA, she would have to divide her final total in half (for half a year). I gave grades per year on dd's transcript. Classes that were 1/2 credit (health) were given, for example, 2 pts. for an A instead of 4. (Huh. It never dawned on me to give one grade per semester.)

 

It sounds like she's making things more complicated than necessary.

 

It looks like when she organizes it by semester she does divide her final total in half for half the year... at least that's what I needed to do to calculate and match her GPAs.  It didn't say she did that; it just seems to work out that way.  I agree, I think she made it more difficult than needed.  It really threw me off to see the 4 points given for the A in a 1/2 credit class... especially when you look over to the subject oriented version and see 4 points given for the A in the first semester and another 4 points given for the A in the second semester totaling 8 points for the 1 credit class??(non weighted btw)  There was no GPA on this version as it was showing an expected graduation in 2017... so I really can't check how she handles this setup.

 

 

In your above sample, I would get a 3.6 GPA.

 

(4+3+2) divided by the number of credits - 2.5

 

I've never seen it done differently than the "grade points" divided by the number of credits.

 

Apparently there are two different methods for calculating the GPA .. see links below.

 

Campbell's method is not complicated and is one of the standard formats used throughout the country. For a standard high school transcript, semesters make sense as not all classes are a year long. You are comparing equivalent units. What follows is my oldest's 9th grade scores from her official transcript:

 

Algebra 1             A             4         0.50

Art 1                     A             4         0.50

Biology                A              4         0.50

Global Study 9    A              4         0.50

Lit & Comp 9       A              4         0.50

Spanish 1            A              4         0.50

Theater Design 1 A             4         0.50

Algebra 1            B              3         0.50

Biology                A             3          0.50

Fitness and Movement A    4         0.50

Global Study 9    B             3          0.50

Health 1              B             3          0.50

Lit & Comp 9       B H         3          0.50 (unweighted here for honors)

Spanish 1           C             2          0.50

 

 

Dd earned seven credits and an unweighted GPA of 3.571.  She had a total of 50 grade points divided by 14 semester courses.

 

Semester grades can tell a more complete "story"  about a student and their ability in a course than a yearly grade can provide.  Let's say I have two students who each earned an "A" one semester and a "B" another semester in Algebra 2. Their overall grade for the year is exactly the same, but the semesters for their "A"s are flopped. If I am assessing these students and the probability they will succeed in Pre-Calculus, I am going to bet that the student with the "A" the second semester is the stronger student.

 

In a perfect world, your child is a rocket scientist and trauma has never visited your family. In that case, grade however you see fit for your goals, but if your child has a blip on the radar, you can use those semester grades to tell a more compelling story than a yearly GPA would show. The semester my dd was diagnosed with severe depression is the big fat zit on a relatively healthy transcript. The senior guidance counselor talked us through how to present that information to a college. She told us that colleges would be more interested in dd's "rockin" comeback the next fall after she had been receiving treatment. It many cases, falling isn't equivalent to failing. It really is all about what you do after you fall.

 

Thank you!  I now can understand why someone would want to organize their transcripts by semester!

Here is another view on this:  A term grade point average (GPA) is calculated based on the term grade for each marking period and is used to determine honor roll and eligibility for participation in extracurricular activities and sports. This information is included on the report card each term and is called the Term GPA. When calculating a student’s term GPA, all courses are counted equally on a 4.0 (unweighted) scale.  http://www.fcps.org/cms/lib02/MD01000577/Centricity/Domain/28/UnderstandingGPAs.pdf

 

 

Now to understand why there are different methods for calculating high school GPA..... 

 

The method I've seen used for Semester or Term GPA but is also referred to as just the GPA is

(total number of grade points) / (total number of classes)

      this can be found in the book mentioned in OP for semester GPA and also at these sites:

      http://www.everyday-education.com/gpacalc/index.shtml

      http://www.onlineconversion.com/grade_point_average.htm

      http://gpacalculator.net/high-school-gpa-calculator/

      http://www.ohe.state.mn.us/sPages/gpa.cfm

      http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/gpa_calculator.asp

            

Then there is the Cumulative GPA:  "A cumulative GPA is calculated for all high school level courses* based on the number of credits received and a 4.0 

(unweighted) and 5.0 (weighted) scale. Cumulative GPAs are used by FCPS high schools to determine class rank and 

graduation honors, eligibility for the National Honor Society, by colleges as part of the admission criteria, by many 

scholarship and grant providers, and occasionally, by employers. ..."  http://www.fcps.org/cms/lib02/MD01000577/Centricity/Domain/28/UnderstandingGPAs.pdf

 

This Cumulative GPA tends to be calculated as (total number of grade points) / (total number of credits)  Some simply use this calculation but this maybe due to a confusion of the term 'grade points'.  Sites that tend to calculate GPA based on credits tend to use slightly different wording in their calculations.  

However the definition of the grade points or quality points seems to alternate here!  I'm not referring to weighted grades.  That's a different can of worms.  

Where before the grade points just equaled the points given for that grade (ie if an A gets 4 pts (weighted or not), then apply 4 pts), here it is adjusted to reflect how much of those points get applied to the GPA (so now they tend to be called quality points).  Thus the grade point of 4 will all count for a 1 credit class (ie the QP= 4 gp X 1 credit)  but a 1/2 credit class will earn 2 QPs (4 gp X 1/2 credit = 2 QP).  So you make these adjustments and then apply this calculation.  

So GPA = (total number of quality points) / (total number of credits) Here are websites that follow this method (using QPs or an adjusted GP):

      http://donnayoung.org/forms/help/highsc.htm

      http://www.fcps.org/cms/lib02/MD01000577/Centricity/Domain/28/UnderstandingGPAs.pdf

      http://gradetracker.com/academy/weighted-high-school-gpa-calculator

      http://www.college-scholarships.com/online_college_gpa_calculator.htm

      http://www.stapleshigh.net/info/grades.html

      http://classroom.synonym.com/calculate-high-school-cumulative-average-grade-point-average-2733.html

 

Here a site that says, "If you are calculating your cumulative GPA and your school doesn't use credit values just enter the number of classes the GPA relates to."  http://studentspreunited.com/gpa-calculator-high-school ...So this site seems to think that if you have credit then use them otherwise manage without them.

 

So that was a lot to just say that there are different, valid ways to calculate the GPA.... and that terminology plays a key role in understanding each of the methods..... and the book I bought to make things easier made it more complicated then it needed to be.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm sure that others may do things differently, and some of those other ways may be fine to use. But this is my understanding and I think the most often used.

 

Just to clarify ... When an A gets 4 points, it has absolutely no bearing on how many credits or how long the course was. The scale for converting letter grades to points is generally ... A = 4, B = 3, C = 2, D = 1, and no points for a failed class. These points are given to each class whether it was a full year, a semester, one credit, a quarter of a credit, etc.. Then the points are multiplied by the number of credits for the class. IOW an A four a full credit would equal 4, an A for a .5 credit would equal 2, and an A for a quarter credit would equal 1. But what's critical is to then divide the number from the sum by the total number of credits, and not the number of classes. When you do that, then the 1 point for the A in the .25 credit class would retain it's grade value of 4. However, because it was in a quarter credit class, it would affect the total GPA only 1/4 as much as an A in a full credit class. But both are true A's and worth 4 points.

 

This is the usual way to calculate GPA. What doesn't seem so standard is how to weight the grades as sometimes it's done on a 5 point scale, and other times on a 6 point scale.

 

Yes, there is more than one way to calculate the GPA, but IMO this is the most accurate. It would seem that consistency is the key. If you weight the grade point based on the credits for each class, then you should divide by the number of credits. If you choose to just average the grades of all the classes without regard to the credits earned for each, then you should divide by the total number of classes.

[Jane in NC]

Regarding weights: many college admissions departments will toss weights since they are non-standard. The 4.0 scale is standard. The 5.0 or 6.0 scales are not.

[8filltheheart]

Ultimately you just need to find what works for you, be consistent and supply a key so that other people reading the transcript are not as puzzled as you were when reading the transcript book!

 

I give letter grades--not percentages. If you student is taking outside courses at a CC, for example, he or she will be given letter grades--not percentages. Consistency is important to me.

 

(Side note: I would never have been able to give percentages when grading an essay or certain foreign language assignments. I gave grades in Latin because I had some background in it but gave a Pass in French since I was learning it along side my son. A grade of P did not enter into the cumulative GPA.)

 

I gave P for pass for French also.   I included a footnote that stated that mastery of grammar was accomplished at or above avg, but that I was not qualified to evaluate conversational skills.   I did the same on my dd's transcript and she was accepted into every school she applied to.  

 

W/ds, he also has 3 yrs of Latin and a Latin subject test score, so I think those will validate he foreign language courses to anyone that might question the P.

 

As far as GPA, I struggled with what to do in regards to honors and weights and have decided to stick to my original methods that I have used with my older kids.   I am not weighting and I did not label honors.  

[Murphy101]

If it matters, I don't organize my transcripts by semester or year. I organize it by subject. Granted none of my kids so far seem interested in ivy league, mostly due to finance, but I did send the transcripts out to several universities both private and state and none of them had any issues with it.

[Murphy101]

Some colleges assign honor points to pluses and minuses. As an instructor I have never been asked to turn in percentages to college registrars--only letter grades.

 

I'm updating our transcripts and was contemplating this thread..

 

and had a question about this..

 

So when you do your transcripts, or submit grades at the college.. 

 

Whether it is a 92% or a 99% grade for the class, the only thing that is on the transcript is "A" and both equal 4 points?

 

I could see the incentive to do that, because that can really boost the GPA, yes?

 

Othewise, the 92% is only 3.60 pts, not 4 pts.

 

Am I right in understanding how your college/home school calculates letters to points?

[Jane in NC]

I'm updating our transcripts and was contemplating this thread..

 

and had a question about this..

 

So when you do your transcripts, or submit grades at the college.. 

 

Whether it is a 92% or a 99% grade for the class, the only thing that is on the transcript is "A" and both equal 4 points?

 

I could see the incentive to do that, because that can really boost the GPA, yes?

 

Othewise, the 92% is only 3.60 pts, not 4 pts.

 

Am I right in understanding how your college/home school calculates letters to points?

In order to determine percentages, you must be working from some sort of rubric in all classes, yes? I understand how you can calculate percentages in a math class. But English or history? I did not give percentages on essays, research papers or many of the other projects that were done within our homeschool.

 

Honor points at colleges vary. It is worth noting that an A- might be worth 4 honor points at one college or 3.667 or whatever number the college determines.

 

The graduate program I attended had no honor points. The "grades" were H, P, L, F. In a class of say ten students, most or all had a grade of "P" or pass. One or two might have an "H" (honors) or an "L" (low pass). Not everyone performed equally but it was expected that one would do well.

 

This influenced grading at my homeschool. I had high expectations. I did not pick apart papers to give numeric grades. We discussed content; grammatical errors were corrected before the paper was accepted.

 

Quite honestly, I would not have had any idea how to assign numeric grades to essays or research papers without spending a great deal of time creating rubrics. I had other things to do like learn French along with my son. And that brings up another issue. As a co-learner, I could not give a numeric grade on conversation. I could grade his French workbook that is part of the French in Action program--or at least part of it. Simple sentences could be graded but paragraphs? I lacked the expertise to give numeric grades or letter grades for that matter. I gave him a grade of P for each semester of French.

 

It may sound entirely loosey-goosey and I suppose it would have been without outside justification: ACT/SAT, AP scores and CC grades.

 

Even in AP Biology, I would not have been able to determine a numeric grade. We often did labs side by side. Does parental participation influence scores on your rubrics?

 

You have a posse of kids and I assume several have applied to colleges. I am curious if Admissions Counselors have been grateful for your transcript. Do they feel that your percents provide more information than standard letter grades?

[Murphy101]

In order to determine percentages, you must be working from some sort of rubric in all classes, yes? I understand how you can calculate percentages in a math class. But English or history? I did not give percentages on essays, research papers or many of the other projects that were done within our homeschool.

Yes. I grade and give a grade for essays and exams. I never did not get a grade for those things in school and, tho I couldn't care less about grades from a motivation or philosophical POV, a couple of my kids did want me to keep grades. I didn't make many rubrics. Usualky the programs I used came with a rubric of sorts or there was one available online.

 

Honor points at colleges vary. It is worth noting that an A- might be worth 4 honor points at one college or 3.667 or whatever number the college determines.

 

The graduate program I attended had no honor points. The "grades" were H, P, L, F. In a class of say ten students, most or all had a grade of "P" or pass. One or two might have an "H" (honors) or an "L" (low pass). Not everyone performed equally but it was expected that one would do well.

Of course. Can't have all these colleges use the same method and standards. That would make this all too easy to figure. ;p

 

This influenced grading at my homeschool. I had high expectations. I did not pick apart papers to give numeric grades. We discussed content; grammatical errors were corrected before the paper was accepted.

Yes. We did/do that as well. It sounds like the only difference is I would probably grade it on paper and the number/types of edits required would be reflected in the grade.

 

Quite honestly, I would not have had any idea how to assign numeric grades to essays or research papers without spending a great deal of time creating rubrics. I had other things to do like learn French along with my son. And that brings up another issue. As a co-learner, I could not give a numeric grade on conversation. I could grade his French workbook that is part of the French in Action program--or at least part of it. Simple sentences could be graded but paragraphs? I lacked the expertise to give numeric grades or letter grades for that matter. I gave him a grade of P for each semester of French.

Right. I would not give a grade in a subject I didn't feel confident I could back up in some manner. Rubrics don't have to be complicated though.

 

It may sound entirely loosey-goosey and I suppose it would have been without outside justification: ACT/SAT, AP scores and CC grades.

No. I doesn't sound loosely-goosey at all. He learned what you wanted him to learn. It worked for him/you.

 

Even in AP Biology, I would not have been able to determine a numeric grade. We often did labs side by side. Does parental participation influence scores on your rubrics?

Hmm. I'm trying to think of parental participation influence. I don't tend to work side by side bc I only have 2-4 sides (pending on if I'm surrounded!) and 10 kids. ;) For experiments and arts, I often practice it until I get it at night or on the weekends when dh can help with the kids. That way I am prepared and have things ready for them when we do the lesson.

 

I tend to do side by side instruction a few times a week with each if the older kids. That's when we discuss lessons, questions, literature and so forth.

 

You have a posse of kids and I assume several have applied to colleges. I am curious if Admissions Counselors have been grateful for your transcript. Do they feel that your percents provide more information than standard letter grades?

Community, state, and private university all seem to not really care about it. They want ACT, GPA (and they all refigured to their own scale), and what courses were taken/covered, plus any validation info (such as CLEP/AP/SAT2). None of them (7, an admittedly small data selection!) have said a word about % vs Letter. They have said they like how it's organized.

 

Which is why I asked you bc, frankly straight letter to straight pt, certainly sounds easier and I see no obvious benefit to complicating it. I've just been doing it this way bc it's what my local high school did when I was researching 4-5 years ago before my first started high school.

 

One college does a "quality point" as they call it.

 

A (no A-/+) = 4

 

A 3 credit course with an A grade would get 12 "quality points"

 

The cummalative GPA is quality points / total credits.

 

As I usually like consistency too, I was thinking of redoing a son's transcript to that method to reflect the grading system of the college he is most interested in and to make it easier for me. (Win-win!)

 

Did you do a lot of testing in the pass/fail subjects to validate your transcripts?

 

I put a P for religion bc... Well it's religion!

Same goes for many outside classes that I can't figure how to quantify with a letter grade.

But I also don't feel a need to validate those courses.

Did you count P grades in the GPA and if so, how?

[Jane in NC]

Yes. I grade and give a grade for essays and exams. I never did not get a grade for those things in school and, tho I couldn't care less about grades from a motivation or philosophical POV, a couple of my kids did want me to keep grades. I didn't make many rubrics. Usualky the programs I used came with a rubric of sorts or there was one available online.

So you don't just give a grade, you give a percentage, right? One essay is a 95, another an 84. I expected my son to write A level papers. Essentially I worked with him until I felt he had shaped an essay or research paper sufficiently or understood the specific skill on which we were focusing.

 

We also followed TWTM Great Books recommendations. This included things like studying Inferno and the Aeneid with Teaching Company lectures to motivate discussions. Again, I cannot see how one gives a 95 or 84 but I could say that the level of discussion merited an A in my eyes.

 

Did you do a lot of testing in the pass/fail subjects to validate your transcripts?

 

I put a P for religion bc... Well it's religion!

Same goes for many outside classes that I can't figure how to quantify with a letter grade.

But I also don't feel a need to validate those courses.

Did you count P grades in the GPA and if so, how?

I would have been more concerned about the Ps given for five semesters of French if my son did not have another language with grades. He also had four years of high school Latin culminating with an outside AP course. He earned an A in the latter which I felt backed up the A's given previously. The only other Ps were for PE/Health.

 

I did give grades in Conceptual Physics and AP Bio done at home. He had three additional science classes at the CC with non-Mommy grades.

 

I truly was concerned about how to give grades in English. Again, having two composition classes at the CC assured me that my evaluation was valid.

 

By the way, I always received letter grades in religion at the Catholic girls school I attended!

[Murphy101]

So you don't just give a grade, you give a percentage, right? One essay is a 95, another an 84. I expected my son to write A level papers. Essentially I worked with him until I felt he had shaped an essay or research paper sufficiently or understood the specific skill on which we were focusing.

 

We also followed TWTM Great Books recommendations. This included things like studying Inferno and the Aeneid with Teaching Company lectures to motivate discussions. Again, I cannot see how one gives a 95 or 84 but I could say that the level of discussion merited an A in my eyes.

I didn't follow WTM as close as some have, but we did Kolbe's Greek lit and history, modern era, plus extensive booklists from WTM and other sources. We did a few Teaching Company DVDs top. I don't grade DVD watching, reading, or discussion. I have no idea what A level of discussion even means. What kind of rubric determines that? (not being snarky, honest question!) Papers are at least as easy or easier to grade as discussion to me.

 

I would have been more concerned about the Ps given for five semesters of French if my son did not have another language with grades. He also had four years of high school Latin culminating with an outside AP course. He earned an A in the latter which I felt backed up the A's given previously. The only other Ps were for PE/Health.

So he had A in Latin, P in French and English? Did you give a point value to the french and English courses? Such as a P = 4pts?

 

By the way, I always received letter grades in religion at the Catholic girls school I attended!

I got an F in PE, which was grades on an A-F scale. Twice. My son saw that on my transcript and said, "How in the world do they give grades for PE? Fastest relay team gets an A and it's all down hill from there for the rest or what? How slow could you have been?!"

[Jane in NC]

I didn't follow WTM as close as some have, but we did Kolbe's Greek lit and history, modern era, plus extensive booklists from WTM and other sources. We did a few Teaching Company DVDs top. I don't grade DVD watching, reading, or discussion. I have no idea what A level of discussion even means. What kind of rubric determines that? (not being snarky, honest question!) Papers are at least as easy or easier to grade as discussion to me.

 

 

So he had A in Latin, P in French and English? Did you give a point value to the french and English courses? Such as a P = 4pts?

 

 

I got an F in PE, which was grades on an A-F scale. Twice. My son saw that on my transcript and said, "How in the world do they give grades for PE? Fastest relay team gets an A and it's all down hill from there for the rest or what? How slow could you have been?!"

Sorry--not clear previously. He did have A's in his English courses. P's did not enter into the GPA.

 

I understand your initial question on grades related to discussion. I think you are as baffled over this as I am with giving a numeric grade to a composition.

 

What does it mean? Well, I had a teen reading challenging works. He was engaged in discussion, often leading me to see things that I had overlooked. No rubric here. To my knowledge no one has written the rubric on how to evaluate discussion on Plato's Republic with a young teen. And if they had I would probably toss it out as rubbish. (Sheepish grin.)

 

What do grades mean anyway? It sounds as though you have your standards for your homeschool and I assume with ten children you see variation within those students. I have one kiddo. I knew what to do with Math, i.e. how to teach it and grade it. For the rest, I was more concerned with educating my son than worried about grades assigned to his progress. Proof in the pudding? Yup. He is doing well.

 

I want to quote Satchmo's (Louis Armstrong's) definition of jazz: "If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know..." Somehow, as a homeschool instructor, I felt an intuitive sense of success and graded accordingly.

 

As I stated previously, it seems so loosey-goosey. I do think this may be why Admissions Counselors want to see test scores and dual enrollment grades for homeschool students!