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What happens if a child refuses to do work at school?


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#51 DianeW88

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:19 PM

What world? For the most part a kid's world is school, so if they hate school - what exactly are you going to make ground to a halt? Especially for a stubborn kid who knows eventually the world will keep going again just fine?


Anything outside of school. Activities, lessons, phone, internet, friends, etc. Honestly, I just can't imagine a child being that blatently defiant or disrespectful to a teacher or their parents and simply refusing to do the work assigned to them. It's jaw-dropping to me.

Anything outside of school. Activities, lessons, phone, internet, friends, etc. Honestly, I just can't imagine a child being that blatently defiant or disrespectful to a teacher or their parents and simply refusing to do the work assigned to them. It's jaw-dropping to me.

You have never known anyone that didn't turn in all of their work? Not even the kids with ADD that lost more papers than they kept track of? Not even the smart, bored kids making a power play? Your world sounds as foreign to me as mine must to you! :lol:


Honestly, no. However, I will admit to attending rigorous private prep schools as a child, and those students were particularly motivated and eager to learn. I don't know of any students simply refusing to do their work. Of course the occasional paper was lost, or deadline was missed, but that was the exception, not the rule. And if students didn't meet the academic requirements set forth by the school, they were expelled. So yes, admittedly my perspective is different. And my children have only been homeschooled, so I have not seen this type of behavior among their peers. My kids didn't refuse to do their work...they didn't want to spend the rest of the day scrubbing toilets and cleaning the garage. :lol:

#52 Horton

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

I decided my junior year that I was done. At first, I just did zero work. My parents became upset, so I just dropped out and received my GED. There was no amount of punishments my parents could have given me that would have made me do better (believe me, they tried). We have all agreed since that it was the very best decision I made. I started working full time and progressed quickly. I was suddenly making more than my siblings who had not only graduated from high school but college as well. After I was married and had children, I decided to go to college. I'll be completely done with my degree next year and couldn't be happier with the way things have gone.

That being said, things are very different now and I don't think a dropout/GED will get anyone as far today and it took me then. I've been fortunate with my dds. Here, not doing homework will involve many meetings with parents. It will also involve being left out of many extras and clubs, as well as repeating the grade.

#53 FaithManor

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:48 AM

At the private school I attended briefly students scrubbed toilets with toothbrushes and mowed the grass with scissors. It didn't take long to decide it was better to do school work than not. However, I'm sure that would cause lawsuits at the PS.

In our area, they get sent to the alternative school. They are socially promoted until 6th grade, put in special ed classes even if they have no LD's for 7th, then starting in 8th, it's the alternative building which is generally for juvenile delinquents. That building is run by a former state police officer, has armed security, and it is a very depressing place. But, with the push for standardized testing, the schools have more reason to not put up with obstinence and if they drum the 8th grader - 17 year old (kids can't quit at 16 in Michigan anymore, must be 18) into alternative ed, then they don't have to report test scores on them anymore. There is a reason that the "principal" of the school is a former law enforcement. So, it's not a fun environment.

Also, in the younger grades, no school assemblies, no admission to sports games even as a spectator (they have a list of "not alloweds" at the front door for the adults selling tickets, no field trips, no special speakers, no career day, no nothing. Even holiday celebrations - the child is required to go to the detention room while the class parties. They still have Saturday detention as well and parents are fined decent sums for not making their kid attend. Some of the better off families will pay the fines if they are supportive of their kid not doing schoolwork, but the lower income families can't afford it and if they don't pay, the truancy officer shows up and the whole thing becomes a mess in court, so these kids often do attend. Sometimes they require the kid to eat alone, supervised by what I can only describe as a very grouchy lunchroom staff person.

Essentially, it's tolerated through 6th grade, passing them on grade to grade. After that, it gets ugly. Thus, many high schoolers sit in class and turn in an assignment here or there, just enough to stay totally off the radar. After all, they can turn in only 1/3 of the work and get straight F's out of it, and it keeps them out of Saturday detention and alternative ed. But, they HATE school, HATE the teachers, and are pretty rugged for everyone else to put up with. Sullen and angry is not fun in a teenager and Michigan, in it's ever increasing stupidity decided that they should raise the drop out age to 18. Some kids should just be allowed to move on. They can deal with the consequences of not having a regular high school diploma and the low opinion of the GED which means that around here, outside of detasseling corn, and shoveling a lot of cow muck, they can't get any kind of a job. So since local employers are very prejudiced against the GED, it doesn't take long for the consequences of not sticking to it and passing classes comes home to roost.

We do have an adult high school program that allows 19+ year olds to attend night classes to make up credits. However, it's not a college prep program so the highest math is algebra 2 and the other courses are rather remedial...no literature, only physical science and life science, etc. So, it's not a good route for the student who decides rather late that he or she would like to attend college. There is a CC near here and some of them land there. Unfortunately, it's an atrocious CC with a nefarious reputation for handing out credits for doing virtually nothing, so it doesn't necessarily assist a person in finding employment even if one completes an AA or certification/licensing program.

For the child who won't comply, there aren't any good alternatives out there for this community.

Faith
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#54 Melissa in Australia

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:54 AM

DD11 feels she isn't motivated by typical school subjects. In our discussion today I asked her what she would've done if she were in an actual school. She thinks she'd just refuse to do boring assignments. She says she doesn't care for the grades or to please the teachers.

So now we are both wondering what would happen in an actual school when a child refuses to do work and doesn't hand in homework.

What if the parents say they can't force the child to complete work.

I'm genuinely curious, as I never thought about this this way. When I was in school I couldn't imagine not to do what I was told to do! :huh:

My oldest tried this at primary school before I started homeschooling. he just had to stay in at recess and lunchtime and complete his work then. He stayed in for many many recesses and lunch times. After I started homeschooling he would go on strike regularly. He even unionized his younger brothers to have a down the pen strike. Very frustrating for me the parent/teacher.

#55 Martha

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:45 AM

My oldest tried this at primary school before I started homeschooling. he just had to stay in at recess and lunchtime and complete his work then. He stayed in for many many recesses and lunch times. After I started homeschooling he would go on strike regularly. He even unionized his younger brothers to have a down the pen strike. Very frustrating for me the parent/teacher.


*snort*

Down with the pen strike! LMBO. LOL

Oh it's hilarious in it's own way. Ya know. In 10+ years hindsight. And when it's not your own kid anymore. ;p

#56 Heigh Ho

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:40 AM

Anything outside of school. Activities, lessons, phone, internet, friends, etc. Honestly, I just can't imagine a child being that blatently defiant or disrespectful to a teacher or their parents and simply refusing to do the work assigned to them. It's jaw-dropping to me.


I've met a few. The problem in the elementary seems to be the full inclusion, whole class teaching...the group in between rtI and on grade level and the gifted, above grade level group are currently not having their instructional needs met in the classroom. Every now and again they give up and stop working. That snowballs; by 4th they just sit there and entertain themselves all day.

#57 WTMCassandra

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

One of my sons, in 10th grade English, had five classmates that would read the English lit novels. The other 25 children would either wander the halls or sleep. I give the teacher great credit for not stooping to having them read the book aloud round robin style. I suspect the real problem was that their reading ability wasn't up to the 10th grade level, but they didn't qualify for rTi and their parents have invested heavily in lobbying for full inclusion, whole class instruction, so they were out of options.


Okay, a bit of a thread hijack, but I'm puzzled about this. You give the teacher great credit for not stooping to read the book aloud? Having 25 students wandering the halls was better? Even if the real problem was lack of reading ability? Why is this a good thing?

I student taught 20 years ago in a sort-of-inner-city public school, in a ninth grade basic English class. Reading the book/play out loud was the ONLY way anything was going to get done, even then. We didn't even attempt to give homework. BUT, I do remember some of the worst kids in the class getting into the story after a while, interacting with it. They at least got to experience the text. I think the reading out loud was one of the few things that went right with that student teaching experience. I'd rather have them interacting with the text that way than sleeping or roaming the halls, if those were basically the choices.

I feel sad remembering those children. I'm glad my children aren't in that position.

#58 Heigh Ho

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:17 PM

Okay, a bit of a thread hijack, but I'm puzzled about this. You give the teacher great credit for not stooping to read the book aloud? Having 25 students wandering the halls was better? Even if the real problem was lack of reading ability? Why is this a good thing?

I student taught 20 years ago in a sort-of-inner-city public school, in a ninth grade basic English class. Reading the book/play out loud was the ONLY way anything was going to get done, even then. We didn't even attempt to give homework. BUT, I do remember some of the worst kids in the class getting into the story after a while, interacting with it. They at least got to experience the text. I think the reading out loud was one of the few things that went right with that student teaching experience. I'd rather have them interacting with the text that way than sleeping or roaming the halls, if those were basically the choices.


It's a good thing because these students were not allowed to prevent the other students in the class from learning the objectives for the year. This school has multiple options for on and below grade level classes that would be more suitable than the reg. ed. class where they are expected to use their study hall to get their reading done.

We have double period English classes. The second period is where the teacher holds their hand and asks them to read their book, and explains anything they don't understand, should they show up with their supplies, and start reading.

We also have academic intervention for those who truly are struggling with reading and don't qualify for sped. That's a multiperiod class where they will get help with anything they need help with and the a.i. teachers will work with the child's regular teachers.

We also have after and before school tutoring, with free transportation.

We have alternative high school, and we have night high school.


So, if a kid wants to roam or sleep during the reg. ed. class, they are making a conscious choice to refuse to learn. Roamers and sleepers will be walked to an AP, with assistance from security if necessary, where they can have the discussion on their future and make a different choice for themselves for the remainder of the year. They don't get to sink the class level so far that the other students won't be able to pass the common exams, the English Regent's exam or do well in the following year's English class.
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#59 BrookValley.

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:49 PM

I pulled this when I was 8. I was bored to tears and tired of getting in trouble for reading in class. So I quit doing anything. My teacher didn't say a word--even though my mother volunteered in the school often and the two were on a first-name basis--so somehow it escaped my parent's attention until the next report card. (teacher's explanation for not telling my mother there was a problem? Eight-year olds should be responsible enough on their own to know the consequences of keeping up with their schoolwork.)

There was lots of fuss and plenty of consequences (my mother is *not* known for being soft). I also remember sitting in the office a lot and more than a few conversations with the principal. But I truly didn't care. They did pass me to fourth grade, and eventually I started doing my work again.

#60 Melissa in Australia

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:19 AM

*snort*

Down with the pen strike! LMBO. LOL

Oh it's hilarious in it's own way. Ya know. In 10+ years hindsight. And when it's not your own kid anymore. ;p

You know it is a little amusing now........... that he is successfully at University and doing well and all that. But at the time it was EXTREEMLY frustrating.
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#61 Catherine

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:38 AM

DD11 feels she isn't motivated by typical school subjects. In our discussion today I asked her what she would've done if she were in an actual school. She thinks she'd just refuse to do boring assignments. She says she doesn't care for the grades or to please the teachers.

So now we are both wondering what would happen in an actual school when a child refuses to do work and doesn't hand in homework.

What if the parents say they can't force the child to complete work.

I'm genuinely curious, as I never thought about this this way. When I was in school I couldn't imagine not to do what I was told to do! :huh:


Without reading a single response, I'll tell you my experience: the teacher calls often to complain about the child's laziness and bad behavior. You are summoned to meetings to discuss these topics and told, in effect, to use your powers to motivate and discipline the child into a more acceptable performance.

You then make the decision to homeschool and are forced to immediately find a solution yourself : )
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#62 Pippen

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:23 AM

:001_huh: I seriously cannot even conceive of this happening with a child. I never knew any children who didn't turn in their work when I was in school, and my own kids have always completed all their assignments. If my kids had ever tried any of that nonsense, their entire world would have ground to a halt.


Your kids wouldn't try that nonsense because they know you care and you would follow through to make sure education is a priority. Not all kids are so fortunate.

I frequently substitute teach at a public middle school and there are several students that I have NEVER seen do any work. Our district rarely retains at the middle school level because they don't want 16 year olds in ms, but a student who is doing this can expect not to participate in sports, spend lunch hours with teachers, meet with parents and teachers, be pulled out of science for reading or math intervention (because these subjects count on standardized testing), and miss out on special school activities/trips/rewards.

The most frequently used strategy is the "behavioral plan" which lists specific behavioral/work standards that the student is held accountable for and for which they'll receive some kind of reward for if they achieve on a daily or weekly basis. Sometimes the behavioral plan helps. Sometimes it doesn't.

Often students who are moving through middle school without doing any work will be tested, and frequently medicated.

If the do nothing behavior continues in high school they will be moved into alternative school. There is an alternative school option for middle school but it is almost never used because it signals the end of regular school option for the student. It's a last ditch attempt to get them through the public school system.

#63 Luanne

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

The school district here just keeps passing students no matter what. They say it hurts their self esteem not to go to the next grade, but I don't see how not understanding what is being taught and getting failing grades all the time helps their self esteem. I am all for holding students back if they are not ready to move on.
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#64 jhschool

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:55 AM

You have never known anyone that didn't turn in all of their work? Not even the kids with ADD that lost more papers than they kept track of? Not even the smart, bored kids making a power play? Your world sounds as foreign to me as mine must to you! :lol:


or the non ADD kids who lose everything anyway...

#65 jhschool

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:58 AM

pp, did you get your cat back?

:(


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