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LOST: Help me choose Math curriculum for 1st and 2nd! Change up?


RosieCotton
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Hello all of you fabulous educators!

 

I need to firm up my math curriculum in the next 2 weeks for my 2nd and 1st grade boys. Please read and advise this newbie with only 1 year under her belt!

 

Last year I used Modern Curriculum Press Math along with MUS. I feel our results were good and both boys are ahead of where they "should be" as I worked with them individually to push them forward.

 

I thought MUS was abit slow and I felt if I continued with it they might be left behind. After about 4 weeks of MUS I kinda quit it and by EOY brought my 1st grader to mastery of addition/subtraction to 20, introd fractions, telling time the the minute. Money he is amazing at and is adding change past 3.00. He ended up about halfway thru the MCP Level B book, which is I believe their second grade material. He is carrying 3 digits, and really enjoys multiplcation but we've just started to 6. I really like the layout of the TM for MCP, it is really solid with many examples and games, and extra activities to reinforce. I liked the blocks for MUS, I like the visual to reinforce concepts- and we'd use the MUS worksheets and watch a lesson here or there, but I didn't think it gave him enough practise to mastery. Maybe had we done just that program I would have seen the same results. Using a 6 ft whiteboard hung low to the ground we did everything from fact families, number lines, and graphing, and even pattern sequencing.

 

Oh we also used IXL math and have a subscription which he thinks is fun to go on the PC and practise. Heard great things about Dreambox too.

 

My K boy is doing well for his age, with addition/sub to 10 mastered, and time to the half hour etc. and I'll take him on the same path content wise I think as his brother this next year.

 

I've read great things about Math Mammoth and Singapore Math. 2nd grader is ready to go into 2a/2B per the tests online. Just not sure what I should do here. Should I change at all or just keep on with the same? I guess I'm having the fears everyone has - I'm missing a component, or a skill set, or (my sanity?? lol) Another program is better than what I have now. . . Am I doing enough . . .Does he get it conceptually. . .

 

I think I'd like a simple straight forward daily plan for math, and I didn't really have one last year which stressed me out and is why I'm thinking about making a change. I do have all the TM's and Student Books for MCP Math in hand up to 6th grade (worked at Pearson and got em free - sweeeet) and there have been great ideas in the TM's I haven't seen in other products TM's. It is an option to just stay with that and as they progress to mastery, push them forward to the next books as I've been doing. I liked the videos with MUS but is that program truly vigorous enough? Waiting until Delta for division? That's 4th grade. . . How is that not behind? We do need more work with word problems, but I see SM has a challenging word problems component I could just buy and add.

 

I've researched and hemmed and hawed. I've bought Cathy Duffy's book and taken the questionnaire. I'm eclectic (like you didn't know that by now) with a push towards classical. I want my boys to continue to be ahead and excel. I guess I'm just shocked that the content can be so different company to company. To stay ahead should everyone just use Singapore?

 

Other tools you've used out there? I know some use an abacus or scales.

 

Any and all advice greatly appreciated. A master at anything was once a beginner and that's what I am.

 

Warm wishes on a great rest of the summer from us here in the deep woods of Minnesota.

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Singapore is very solid. It sounds like, if he is ready for Singapore 2nd, you did a great job with 1st grade math for him. I wouldn't worry about missing anything. Given what you wrote, I'd be inclined to have the 1st grader follow the same path his sibling did and put the 2nd grader in Singapore. MCP is a good program too, if you want to use that for one or both.

 

I like RightStart for the early math but, given your success and the cost, I don't think I would go that route in your case. I don't really like MM or Singapore for 1st grade though they aren't terrible.

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Well, I had a long reply written and my computer just ate it. Here is the short version.

 

It sounds like you did a great job with your ds. I am familiar with MCP and personally find the program very slow/behind. It sounds like you did a great job of following your kids needs vs. simply following a textbook.

 

Based on your description, it sounds like your older ds would be ready for Horizons 3. There might be a few places where you would need to close the textbook and just teach to catch him up, but over all, it sounds like that is where he would be. Your younger child sounds like he would be right on par for Horizons 1.

 

I am no help in regards to SM and MM. I am not a SM fan b/c I think SM often words things in a deliberately obtuse way. I own MM 3, 5a, and 6. I have taught Horizons multiple times and after spending time with MM, I think that MM is comparable to Horizons except in mastery format vs. spiral. MM has more word problems (probably Horizons weakness) but supplementing with problems like those in Hands On Equations is very simple and easily compensates for any difference. (2-3 problems/day from HOE starting in 3rd to 4th grade.)

 

I have been using a combo of Horizons and Math in Focus with one of my children for a few yrs now. (MiF is very similar to SM but colorful and with better explanations.) I personally would not drop Horizons and go with just MiF b/c I really prefer the spiral approach and in many instances I find the coverage/explanations in Horizons better. For example, the entire 5B book of MiF this yr was all review and not as comprehensive as the exposure dd has had to those concepts over the yrs in Horizons. However, the word problems in MIF 5A were more challenging than ones she experienced in Horizons, but on par with the ones in HOE.

 

I don't know anything about MUS's elementary program. I am familiar with the high school level texts and would not recommend them as a student's sole exposure to high school level concepts.

 

Hope that is understandable. I left out a lot of my former explanations. :( If you have any questions, please ask and I will try at some pt to answer.

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I'm not familiar with MCP or MUS. But I do know Singapore, and it is a rock-solid program that will serve your students well. You can be confident that with its strong progression, you won't be missing major topics. I've found it to be well-organized and simple to use.

 

If you go the Singapore route, I recommend getting the HIG, text, workbook, and CWP to start. Bear in mind that some parents use the CWP a bit (or even a full level) behind because of its difficulty level. Some people have expressed a dislike of all the books that comprise the program, but I simply haven't encountered that as a problem. To me, the variety of books means that I can tailor the program to my child's level. A typical Singapore day might look like this: I check the HIG for ideas on how to introduce the topic with manipulatives, and then do those with my student. We do the related section in the textbook, usually orally, so that I can check how well she has understood the topic. Then she does the related pages in the workbook.

 

The Singapore teaching style is to move from concrete (with manipulatives) to pictorial (usually the text) to abstract (manipulating numbers in the workbook). My favourite manipulatives with Singapore have been c-rods; while not included in the HIG, I've found that almost every manipulative-based activity can be done using c-rods. :001_smile:

 

HTH

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If MCP is working, I wouldn't jump around. Add some living math books.

 

If it's not working, then Singapore is good and solid. Math Mammoth is also. They are mastery programs, which is different than MCP, so be aware that they might not fit as well if your DC need spiral.

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I love Singapore, but I love Math; I'm not sure that a parent who is not overly fond of math would like it (I'm not implying that you are not; it's just a theory I have). I love that SM teaches the kids the underlying concepts and not just the steps it takes to solve problems. I love that it introduces complicated topics gently and gradually at younger ages than we are used to so that the students have a chance to become familiar with these challenging topics in manageable bites. I love how they use a very simple problem to introduce a principle and then make the same problem slightly more and more complex (e.g., 12-4, then 52-4, then 52-14, then 652-14, then 652-314) . I love SM, but I am a Math Geek.

All my praises for SM aside, though, if you already have a curriculum in hand, it might be worth it to use it. I don't know anything about the curriculum you have. Your son did well with it last year if he is ready for SM 2a/2b. Sometimes I think we make ourselves crazy by trying to find what might by 1% better than what we have.

Or not. Sell your curriculum and invest in SM. :)

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I love Singapore, but I love Math; I'm not sure that a parent who is not overly fond of math would like it (I'm not implying that you are not; it's just a theory I have). I love that SM teaches the kids the underlying concepts and not just the steps it takes to solve problems. I love that it introduces complicated topics gently and gradually at younger ages than we are used to so that the students have a chance to become familiar with these challenging topics in manageable bites. I love how they use a very simple problem to introduce a principle and then make the same problem slightly more and more complex (e.g., 12-4, then 52-4, then 52-14, then 652-14, then 652-314) . I love SM, but I am a Math Geek.

All my praises for SM aside, though, if you already have a curriculum in hand, it might be worth it to use it. I don't know anything about the curriculum you have. Your son did well with it last year if he is ready for SM 2a/2b. Sometimes I think we make ourselves crazy by trying to find what might by 1% better than what we have.

Or not. Sell your curriculum and invest in SM. :)

 

 

This is funny because I just said the same thing about Singapore to my husband last night and then I remembered that Singapore (and reading Liping Ma) was what made me love math. It was my most dreaded subject before I started home schooling and now it is my hands down favorite.

 

I think someone who enjoys math and is good at it (as the OP sounds) is probably going to do well teaching elementary math with any curriculum and, for that reason, I might say to just stick with what you have.

 

But I'm also a huge fan of SM and do think it is a top-notch program. It will prepare your kids well for whatever they want to do in later middle school/high school.

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Honestly it sounds like what your doing is working. Why change it? I love Mcruffy Math but was tempted by another curriculum. I ordered it only to find out that I still love Mcruffy. I learned that if something is working for you it is best to just stop shopping around.

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Reading what you wrote I get the impression that you have done well in your first year homeschooling - it seems you have taught your children what they need to know and that despite the programmes not working as well as you would like that they have come out of it educated.

 

My question is how have you achieved that? Did you follow the curriculum exercise by exercise doing everything or did you tweak anything at all - and if so by how much. The more you are able to adapt to your child and to use the curriculum as just a guide the better your children will do as you will be reading them and making it work.

 

You do not only have to do one book per year - when your child is ready you can move on as you have discovered. If you have the material then you can do one of two things: use the MCP as you used it this year and keep moving on OR get something else and compare with the MCP you have using MCP as a supplement or using the new curriculum you buy as a supplement. If you feel word problems are an issue then SM CWPs is a good idea and won't cost as much to add in.

 

I do not know MCP so it is hard to comment about that - I use both Horizons and SM with my Ker, but I just go at her pace so she is doing Horizons 1 Book 2 and SM 2a at the moment. I do also like Math and do most teaching whatever way I feel will work for the two of us.

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Have you looked into CLE (Christian Light Education)? If we weren't using CLE I would go with McRuffy. But CLE works well for my daughter so we are sticking with it. She has been using Teaching Textbooks but now she is back to using CLE as her main math, and the TT just because we have it and she doesn't mind doing it.

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Reading what you wrote I get the impression that you have done well in your first year homeschooling - it seems you have taught your children what they need to know and that despite the programmes not working as well as you would like that they have come out of it educated.

 

My question is how have you achieved that? Did you follow the curriculum exercise by exercise doing everything or did you tweak anything at all - and if so by how much. The more you are able to adapt to your child and to use the curriculum as just a guide the better your children will do as you will be reading them and making it work.

 

You do not only have to do one book per year - when your child is ready you can move on as you have discovered. If you have the material then you can do one of two things: use the MCP as you used it this year and keep moving on OR get something else and compare with the MCP you have using MCP as a supplement or using the new curriculum you buy as a supplement. If you feel word problems are an issue then SM CWPs is a good idea and won't cost as much to add in.

 

I do not know MCP so it is hard to comment about that - I use both Horizons and SM with my Ker, but I just go at her pace so she is doing Horizons 1 Book 2 and SM 2a at the moment. I do also like Math and do most teaching whatever way I feel will work for the two of us.

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement. It was a difficult start last year and I was so stressed out!

 

I got frustrated bigtime early in the fall, threw MUS out and grabbed the TE's for MCP which gave me some ideas of where to start more foundation. Really I made most of it up as I went along. I did use the decimal street examples alot from MUS regarding place value - both boys loved talking about the ten house, the hundred house etc. We worked math families using the MUS blocks to reinforce, and using our 7 ft white board I wrote problems on the board daily for him to complete then reinforced them with the MCP workbook pages. Then once he had them mastered to 20 we moved on to add/subtract with carrying. Honestly I thought what I was teaching was what every first grader should know. I found out from other public school nieces/nephews that WAS NOT the case at all. We did money with real money, time can naturally for him and we do mental math as we run across things day to day. I also did this by accident with him with writing. We just did so much of it every day, now he writes 2-3 pages at a time withought blinking, spelling at a 3rd grade level he picked up from the copywork I had him doing. I will be using AAS with both boys in the fall, I guess we'll review the first 2 levels quickly for him then move ahead to wherever he needs to start in Level 3 or 4.

 

I definately saw he needed more for his interests, and I'm glad I pushed ahead and we did so much more last year. I think I may grab SM 2 and can borrow Horizons from a friend plus have MCP to fall back on for more ideas. Since I have all the levels I can easily pull from them if/when I need them. It doesnt really give me a simple one stop math solution, but maybe there isnt one!

 

Still learning and thanks for all the advice!

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This is funny because I just said the same thing about Singapore to my husband last night and then I remembered that Singapore (and reading Liping Ma) was what made me love math. It was my most dreaded subject before I started home schooling and now it is my hands down favorite.

 

I think someone who enjoys math and is good at it (as the OP sounds) is probably going to do well teaching elementary math with any curriculum and, for that reason, I might say to just stick with what you have.

 

But I'm also a huge fan of SM and do think it is a top-notch program. It will prepare your kids well for whatever they want to do in later middle school/high school.

 

 

Thanks for all the great replies. I do love math and I think I might give SM a try - others have said try Horizon also and a friend has that I can check it out to see what I think of it.

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One warning about Horizons with an accelerated child - you will probably have to adapt it quite heavily - it can be very repetitious if your child does not need so much revision - my own DD does only half the problems on a page and sometimes even fewer if she really knows the concepts - if it is a new section she is learning then she does all of that section only. I do sometimes feel that I am spending a lot of money to have to skip more than half the book with her, but I have stuck with it because she can be almost independent with it even at her age and she likes the colors and pictures - most of the teaching is done with Singapore in our family.

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Thanks for all the great info on this thread from eveyone. I may check out Miquon also for my first grader as I'm not sure he qill master the concepts my other guy did last year quite as quickly. Sounds like some say Singapore 1A/1B was not as strong for the first graders.

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We did Saxon 1 for 1st grade. I probably should have started with level 2. She also did Life of Fred and Math Mammoth. We're switching to Horizon's this year, and I will start my K'er on Horizons this year. I looked into moving into TT3, and my DD7 did pass the placement test, but I decided to go with Horizon's in the end. She is a little behind because we didn't finish Saxon, but we are supplementing with Kahn academy and continue to work daily on mental math.

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I may check out Miquon also for my first grader as I'm not sure he qill master the concepts my other guy did last year quite as quickly. Sounds like some say Singapore 1A/1B was not as strong for the first graders.

 

 

Miquon is a great program, too. I used it in conjunction with Singapore, as the two work very well together.

 

I didn't find Singapore 1 lacking in any way for the Gr. 1 level.

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Thanks for all the great info on this thread from eveyone. I may check out Miquon also for my first grader as I'm not sure he qill master the concepts my other guy did last year quite as quickly. Sounds like some say Singapore 1A/1B was not as strong for the first graders.

Miquon is a great program, too. I used it in conjunction with Singapore, as the two work very well together.

I didn't find Singapore 1 lacking in any way for the Gr. 1 level.

 

Yep. I would use (did use) the two programs, Miquon and Primary Mathematics together. The combo is more than the sum of the parts.

 

I also liked PM 1A/B. We used it for K because Miquon (which we started at 4) made it very accessible for my child. I do not think it is "lacking," just better in combination with Miquon. The MEP stuff is good too.

 

Bill

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I don't think SM 1A is lacking. But I do think most of the concrete stuff is better done with c-rods than the suggested manipulatives. But this is a very simple change to make yourself whether you use Miquon or not. If no one has mentioned it yet, look at educationunboxed.com for good c-rod ideas.

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I don't think SM 1A is lacking. But I do think most of the concrete stuff is better done with c-rods than the suggested manipulatives. But this is a very simple change to make yourself whether you use Miquon or not. If no one has mentioned it yet, look at educationunboxed.com for good c-rod ideas.

 

I agree. All the HIG activitities can (easily) be translated from "linking rod" activities into Cuisenaire Rod activities, and improve in the process. It is too bad the HIGs didn't just use C Rods in the first place.

 

The suggestion to look at the Education Unboxed videos, to see this kind of learning in action, is a good idea as well.

 

Bill

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We really liked a combination of SM and MEP. It worked our beautifully for my daughter. She did Miquon books on her own just for fun. My son loved Miquon books and kept hiding them under his pillow to do them overnight.

You can try all three math programs to see what will work the best.

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