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Science in the Beginning Dr Jay Wile v Apologia Elementary


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#1 Hakg

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:33 PM

Can anyone who has used both (perhaps the pilot which I understand was called Science in the Creation Week) do a comparison? I have searched and cannot find any existing threads. If there is an old one, could someone point me to it? Thanks :thumbup1:

#2 traceyrox74

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:36 AM

We'll be finishing up the pilot books in the next month or so (Homeschoolers in Australia got to trial the series. I know the published books will be available here soon but have the books been released in the U.S yet???).

I've used all sorts of Science curriculums in the past - Apologia's Elementary books, Janice VanCleaves books, Real Science 4 Kids, and tried to make up my own units - but everything lacked something that I thought a good Science curriculum needed. For me, Dr Wile's new elementary Science has everything I wanted in a curriculum. We'll be continuing on with his series and then move onto his highschool series.

My boys and I found the Apologia Exploring Creation series way too dry, too wordy and unnecessarily technical for the intended age groups. The hands on activities were also few and far between and never terribly exciting. The notebooking also wasn't a good fit for my boys. We didn't like these books at all, although I persisted through three different volumes - Flying Creatures, Astronomy and Swimming Creatures. They just seemed to focus too much on filling the kids up with facts and not nearly enough on prompting the kids to think and question and wonder. There was just no 'wow' factor for us. Science is supposed to be engaging but my boys and I were just bored and trudging through. I found the Apologia series focused too much on the "what" of Science. We spent lots of time reading 'about' Science but rarely 'did' any Science. We were told how things were but never saw it for ourselves...and so just tended to forget.

Dr Wile's books are very different. They focus on the 'why' and 'how' of Science. They have 'wow' factor and have turned our Science experience totally around. Nowadays we 'do' Science every day and sometimes even on the weekend!!

In 'Science in the Beginning' every lesson is succint, engaging and easy to understand. Dr Wile uses a kind of narrative dialogue, asking the children questions, prompting them to think and engage with the concept being taught. I've also found Dr Wile's books less 'God-gushy' compared Apologia's books while still from a Creationist point of view.

Every single lesson starts with a hands on activity that is vital to the lesson that follows. You can't just skip them and read the lesson. However, all of the activities are easy to do, use common household items and actually work. Many of the activities we've done had an impressive 'wow' factor. We've found ourselves sharing the activities with anyone who'll watch. If you don't like activities this probably isn't the curriculum for you, however if you were willing to give it a go it could be the curriculum that turns around your fear of Science activities.

Every lesson ends with a written task to prompt the children to record what they have learned. There are activities for three different skill levels. The youngest level has simple review questions to answer and the older two levels are usually a mixture of diagrams and explanations. I tend to mix and match them and come up with my own combinations. Answers are provided at the back of the book...as well as chapter quizzes. Dr Wile's books don't have all the notebooking and cutting and pasting that the Apologia books encourage.

So both series are very different. One seems more for those who like to read about Science and the other for those who like to pull up their sleeves and actively engage with Science. Perhaps it's more about fitting the right book to each child and parent. For my boys (and myself) the right books are Dr Wile's new elementary series.
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#3 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 11:44 AM

I thought they were one and the same since he wrote the Apologia texts before his departure. Please provide a link to something 'other' than Apologia.

Thanks,
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#4 klmama

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:28 PM

Are these books and activities something very independent learners could use on their own?

#5 Sahamamama

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:00 PM

:lurk5:

#6 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:14 PM

I guess this is something new since there is not much about it online yet. I did find this one link which looks interesting:
http://educationrefo...riving-end-june

I also have read that Dr. Wile's views on science have changed somewhat over the years in relation to the direction Apologia has been going. Though I don't know the finer details nor I am sure that they are all that noticeable to the average students reading these texts. I will be interested to hear how he addresses 'other' Christian perspectives different from his own as this is one of the reasons we will not be using Apologia for 7th grade.

#7 traceyrox74

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:07 PM

By Apologia Elementary I meant Jeannie Fulbright's Exploring Creation series sold and published by Apologia. Dr Wile already has a high school curriculum which is still sold and published by Apologia but until now he hasn't had an elementary series. I believe (but I'm open to correction), once he sold Apologia to the new owners, he had an agreement that didn't allow him to publish anything new in the U.S. for a period, hence the luck of the Aussies to trial his new series. When I saw the initial question I wondered whether the new series had been released in the U.S. as the only link I've been able to find it at so far is Education Reformation which is an Aussie supplier. My guess is that it hasn't as yet. But it's definitely one to keep your eye out for in the future. It's very different to Jeannie Fulbright's books. I found that, being a Science text and unlike Fulbright's books, Dr Wile's doctrinal beliefs were hard to spot. He at times refers to God's creation, HIs ingenious features, and the marvels of it all but nowhere near as much as the Exploring Creation series which seem to fall in with too much gush.
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#8 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:05 PM

Thanks for the further explanation Tracey. You sound fortunate to be able to 'test drive' this new curriculum. Science in the Beginning sounds interesting. I like the idea of a more hands on approach toward science. Do you know what age range or grades this is supposed to target? You mentioned Elementary. But how about Middle School science such as an alternative to Apologia's Exploring Creation with General Science which Wile also wrote? Or would that age range not be covered in this series?

#9 traceyrox74

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:34 AM

Well based on the two books I've seen so far they aren't for the same age bracket as the General Science books. I'd say roughly 8-12 in my opinion but depending on the individual child. They'd be very similar to Jeanne Fulbright's age bracket for the Apologia Elementary books. The way I plan to work is Dr Wile's new elementary series followed by his highschool series, starting at General Science.

I don't know what ages Middle School ages are. Australia doesn't have middle school. We have primary from aged 6 to 12 and then high school from 13 to 17.

I will say that I think the second book in the series is a little more difficult than the first.
The first book covers the basics of:
Day 1 – Light
Day 2 – Water and Air
Day 3 – Land, Sea and plants
Day 4 – Sky/space
Day 5 – Swimming / Flying creatures
Day 6 – Land animals and Humans
While the second pilot book, titled “Science in the Ancient World”, follows Science sequentially through the Ancient world, exploring topics as the Great Scientists explored them. I don't know if there'll be other titles in the series but I certainly hope so. There are quite a few Aussies using it and loving it.
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#10 Hakg

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:57 AM

Thank you Tracey for the thorough comparison/review. In relation to Science in the Ancient World (2nd book), when the pilot was first available, I asked Dr Wile whether we could use this book first, however he recommended using the first book first. That may be because my son is only grade 3, and like Tracey has suggested, it sounds like the second book is a little more difficult. I wish there was a little more info out there about these books, but I'm sure that will come in time. I did read at a blog after posting here that it was not going to be available in the US for some time, but that it was in Canada and other countries. If anyone in Canada or elsewhere has used this first book, I would love to hear what you think too.

#11 Sahamamama

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:36 AM

Thank you Tracey for the thorough comparison/review. In relation to Science in the Ancient World (2nd book), when the pilot was first available, I asked Dr Wile whether we could use this book first, however he recommended using the first book first. That may be because my son is only grade 3, and like Tracey has suggested, it sounds like the second book is a little more difficult. I wish there was a little more info out there about these books, but I'm sure that will come in time. I did read at a blog after posting here that it was not going to be available in the US for some time, but that it was in Canada and other countries. If anyone in Canada or elsewhere has used this first book, I would love to hear what you think too.


I'd be interested in any links to a supplier in Canada. :bigear:

#12 mommyto4

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:35 AM

Learning House has it:
http://learninghouse...?ordernum=SC540

It really looks great... I had never heard of it before this thread!
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#13 Rebel Yell

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:42 AM

i am SOOOO sad that my kids will be too old for this when it comes out :mad: - but I may just buy it anyway for "Supplemental Science Reading." :thumbup1:

#14 Quiver0f10

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:36 PM

Learning House has it:
http://learninghouse...?ordernum=SC540

It really looks great... I had never heard of it before this thread!

Thanks for the link. I wonder if they will ship to the US?

#15 staceyobu

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:12 PM

Thanks for the link. I wonder if they will ship to the US?


The website says they ship internationally and you will be charged actual shipping rates. They will call to confirm the price with you. If someone else attempts to order, please post the approximate shipping cost. I heard a while back that he would be writing his own elementary curriculum. I would be really interested in ordering...
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#16 Quiver0f10

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:50 PM

The website says they ship internationally and you will be charged actual shipping rates. They will call to confirm the price with you. If someone else attempts to order, please post the approximate shipping cost. I heard a while back that he would be writing his own elementary curriculum. I would be really interested in ordering...

I think I am going to order it, but not for another week or two. I will post the shipping costs afterwards.

#17 mommyto4

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:15 AM

I got an email from the Learning House (Canadian supplier of Jay Wile's books), and they thought that it would be available in the States in August.
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#18 tkdkidsmom

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:41 AM

I got an email from the Learning House (Canadian supplier of Jay Wile's books), and they thought that it would be available in the States in August.



Darn! I just convinced myself that next year's science plan is fine just the way it is. :lol:

#19 vonfirmath

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

I ordered it from Learning House and I just got an email that they can not sell it to me because I'm in the US.

#20 Quiver0f10

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

I ordered it from Learning House and I just got an email that they can not sell it to me because I'm in the US.

I just received the same email. :(

#21 staceyobu

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:14 PM

I got an email from the Learning House (Canadian supplier of Jay Wile's books), and they thought that it would be available in the States in August.


August would be awesome!

#22 vonfirmath

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Any idea who the publisher is? Maybe we could get a definite answer from them?

#23 vonfirmath

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:53 PM

ETA: I found this link that purports to be about the new curriculum's development, but I can't access it from inside the US :(

http://www.drwile.com/pilot/

#24 tkdkidsmom

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:19 PM

The Learning House shows this on their website, but I could not find a way to contact Berean Builders. I did send an email request to CBD & Rainbow Resources to see if they will be carrying it soon.

Author

Dr. Jay L. Wile

Grade

1-6

ISBN

9780989042406

Length

299 pages

Publisher

Berean Builders

Format

Hardcover, Full Colour


#25 skeeterbug

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:44 AM

:bigear:

Subscribing for when there are updates!

#26 TXBeth

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:42 AM

from Dr Wile:

Science→Elementary Science→My Elementary Course

How my series differs from the Young Explorer Series

The Young Explorers Series published by Apologia is an excellent series that has been used successfully by many, many homeschooled students.  My elementary series is quite different from the Young Explorers Series in many ways, because I am trying to help those for whom the Young Explorers Series is not a good fit.  Here are the main differences:

1.  The Young Explorers Series is topical.  You study Astronomy for a year, Botany for a year, etc.  My series presents science in a historical framework.  The first book deals with the six creative days in Genesis 1 as the beginning of history, and the student learns about what was created each day.  So when the student studies the first day of creation, the student learns about light.  When the student studies the second day of creation, the student learns about air and water, etc.  The rest of the series will then present science topics as we learned about them in history.  So rather than being topical, my series will be more chronological.

2.  The Young Explorers Series has about 13-15 lessons per book, so each lesson must be spread over several days.  My series will have 90 lessons per book, and each lesson is designed to be done in one sitting.  So my books are a bit more "scheduled" than the Young Explorers Series.  You know exactly where to start and stop.  Start at the beginning of a lesson, and science is over for the day when you reach the end of the lesson.

3.  The Young Explorers Series does not have as many hands-on activities as my series.  In the Young Explorers Series, there are many days where you do nothing but reading.  In my series, every day that you do science has a hands-on activity.

4.  The Young Explorers Series is based on notebooking and narration so that it can be multigrade.  My series is also multigrade, but it does so by having three different levels of review for each lesson.  The youngest students orally answer two questions about the lesson, and that's all they do.  The older students have a notebooking assignment for their review, and the oldest students have a more complicated notebooking assignment for their review.

5.  The Young Explorers Series does not have tests.  I am not a fan of giving tests at the elementary level in science, but I understand that there are many parents who want to give tests to their students.  Thus, my series will have 12 tests per book, so you could give the student a test every 3 weeks, if you choose.

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#27 TXBeth

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:49 AM

He also said that his plan was to ask different publishers in different non-US countries to publish the books, beginning in June 2012. I have not seen any indication that he plans to release them in the US. He also has no plans to release them in Thailand, so he graciously sent me the whole first book by email (I had gotten the Ancients one downloaded through the pilot program). I am now officially a Dr Wile fan.

BTW, we have done the first 5 lessons of Science in the Creation Week, and my DD is loving it. I think it is a much better fit for us than the Apologia elementary series.
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#28 boscopup

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:08 AM

Anyone know when the non-compete agreement will end? :lurk5:

#29 TraceyS/FL

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:25 AM

Anyone know when the non-compete agreement will end? :lurk5:

No idea, but if I was guessing I would say 5 years from the sale (I didn't know he sold). A year seems to short for a "big deal".

I see a science book underground a happening from our friends to the north!! :p
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#30 Quiver0f10

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

No idea, but if I was guessing I would say 5 years from the sale (I didn't know he old). A year seems to short for a "big deal".

I see a science book underground a happening from our friends to the north!! :p

:lol:

#31 Down_the_Rabbit_Hole

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:13 AM

Count me in on the underground...I reeeeaaallly want this curriculum.
Science taught around the creation week is a wonderful idea, there was a curriculum published a long while ago called Science in the Creation Week or something similar and it was very basic. Wiles version sounds more meaty.
(I want this)
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#32 TraceyS/FL

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:23 AM

Count me in on the underground...I reeeeaaallly want this curriculum.
Science taught around the creation week is a wonderful idea, there was a curriculum published a long while ago called Science in the Creation Week or something similar and it was very basic. Wiles version sounds more meaty.
(I want this)

I've got this friend....... who lives in........ ;)

(actually, i'm not kidding, I could probably get my hands on it if I wanted to - I do want to SEE it though...... :p )

#33 mommyto4

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:10 AM







I received this email from Dr. Wile... Big fan now!

Julie
--------------


Hi Julie,
Thanks for contacting me. I am glad you are excited. You could use the course in a co-op setting. I would think a co-op would be great for doing the experiments. The students could do the experiments for 2-3 lessons at the co-op, and then they could go home, and the parents could cover the reading, etc.
Unfortunately, due to contractual obligations with the company I used to own, I cannot reveal the date the course will be available in the U.S. However, you can tell people to follow either my Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/jaywile

or my blog:
http://blog.drwile.com
When it is available in the U.S., it will be announced at both those places.
God Bless,
Dr. Jay

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#34 mommyto4

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:52 AM

I just read his blog about resigning from Apologia, and he stated that he was planning to launch a new curriculum in three years. That blog was dated August 14, 2010... That means you probably only have a month and a half to wait!
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#35 vonfirmath

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:22 PM

I just read his blog about resigning from Apologia, and he stated that he was planning to launch a new curriculum in three years. That blog was dated August 14, 2010... That means you probably only have a month and a half to wait!


I can wait into August. If not, I do have a friend in Canada that I might be able to use to get this (though she might think me weird).
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#36 Down_the_Rabbit_Hole

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

August is doable, I can even wait till August of next year but ONLY if I know it will be there when I need it....hope that makes sense. otherwise I might have to resort to some clandestine activities to get the goods :ph34r:

#37 TracyP

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:16 PM

Would Science in the Beginning be workable for someone with OE views?
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#38 kiwik

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

Would Science in the Beginning be workable for someone with OE views?


I was wondering that. It does almost sound like it could be.
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#39 dereksurfs

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:17 PM

I was wondering that. It does almost sound like it could be.


I was wondering that three. :tongue_smilie:
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#40 TXBeth

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:45 PM

I haven't read the whole thing in detail. I have read som and skimmed some, but I think it could be, if you are an old earth creationist. It does emphasize the wonder of Gods creation, but the focus is on science, not history. In other words, we are studying the properties of light, not how long it took God to create it. I will look later and see if there are "anti-evolution" statements woven through or not.
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#41 dereksurfs

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:50 PM

I haven't read the whole thing in detail. I have read som and skimmed some, but I think it could be, if you are an old earth creationist. It does emphasize the wonder of Gods creation, but the focus is on science, not history. In other words, we are studying the properties of light, not how long it took God to create it. I will look later and see if there are "anti-evolution" statements woven through or not.


Thanks, Beth. I appreciate it.

#42 TXBeth

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 09:57 PM

Okay, after reading Day 1, Day 4, and Day 6, my opinion is that the curriculum is decidedly Christian and definitely Creationist, but not necessarily young earth.
In fact, it seems to me that even a secular homeschooled could easily edit out the creation references (although evolutionary content would still be missing). Dr. Wile really did a great job of sticking to the science.
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#43 TracyP

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:56 AM

Okay, after reading Day 1, Day 4, and Day 6, my opinion is that the curriculum is decidedly Christian and definitely Creationist, but not necessarily young earth.
In fact, it seems to me that even a secular homeschooled could easily edit out the creation references (although evolutionary content would still be missing). Dr. Wile really did a great job of sticking to the science.

I assumed this was the case considering the stance Wile took during the kerfluffle, but you know what they say about assuming. This sounds great. Thank you!

Hmmm, my pastor is Canadian and we live in MN.... :lol:

#44 Micron4

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:02 PM

Any news yet? Curious if this will come out this month.

#45 Quiver0f10

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:16 PM

Any news yet? Curious if this will come out this month.

I was wondering too!

#46 maize

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:12 PM

Hoping for news.

#47 bethben

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

Sounds like someone in Canada or Australia should hook up with someone here and mass ship books to be distributed by that person in the US.  Or is that illegal?

 

Beth



#48 Quiver0f10

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:03 PM

Sounds like someone in Canada or Australia should hook up with someone here and mass ship books to be distributed by that person in the US.  Or is that illegal?
 
Beth

I'm not sure if that would be illegal or not. I did try and order it and get an email saying they couldn't ship to the US.

#49 bethben

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

I'm not sure if that would be illegal or not. I did try and order it and get an email saying they couldn't ship to the US.

You just have to find a "regular" person in Canada who would buy a bunch and ship it to the US to be distributed.  There's got to be someone here who would do it.  It would be a financial risk for someone, but I'm sure they could sell a bunch of copies.

 

Beth



#50 MotherOfBoys

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

Does anyone know how the price is going to compare with apologia? Is there a journal to buy also?


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