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Old Earth Creation or Theistic Evolution Science curriculum options

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#1 dereksurfs

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

Hi All,

I'll start with the standard disclaimer that I'm not interested in debating these topics. Rather I am interested in what science parents have used who fall into these groups of thought? I know this subject comes up from time to time. But new curriculum emerges as well as new ideas and approaches. So I'd like to hear what some of you have done as well as what may have worked well vs. not so well?

Currently we use Apologia for the elementary years. While I'm not opposed to teaching YEC as 'one' perspective on creation and origins I certainly don't want to teach it as the 'only' view. I also like the inclusion of God in Science curriculum as He is an integral part of of our lives which includes history, science and everything else. But while I've discovered an abundance of YEC and secular curriculum I find there to be a significant gap in the area OEC or TE. So I'm planning on using a mixture of secular and Christian sources for 7th grade. Still I'm curious what other may use?

Thanks,

#2 PachiSusan

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:36 PM

So weird!!! I posted a response and it's not here.

Basically, I said that I'm all ears because I too am Christian and want a science that affirms God's hand in creation, but I believe in Old Earth. It's a rare animal, I guess, yet everyone in my real life that I know their views are like this.

Ha ha on me! You x-posted this and I posted on the other one. That's why it seemed to have disappeared! LOL

#3 Embassy

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:21 PM

I use secular resources for science. Inclusion of God into our science happens through conversations. My son is doing a big creation/evolution study looking at the different perspectives as well as reading books and watching debates from the different perspectives. I tended to choose resources that leaned toward progressive creationism (old earth), but I'm not picky about what my son believes. The study he is doing is part of his Bible time. For science we are using secular textbooks. He wants to be a scientist so I've been very picky about only using secular resources for science. As someone who believes that God created the universe, I find that studying the natural world naturally elicits awe and wonder towards the Creator. I don't need a textbook to do that for me.

#4 Cricket

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

My answer might be different if I had a student who was serious about science. My oldest is going into 9th and I may change things up for the younger ones. Right now we use Apologia with all the kids and I edit as I read. Like you, I like the emphasis on God as Creator but I don't like the implications that you have to believe in YEC to believe God. With my rising ninth grader, I plan on adding some resources on evolution when we get to biology. I'll be listening for ideas too! One book I do plan on using is Redeeming Science by Poythress. Not a science book but helps with understanding how faith and science are not opposites. Especially helpful are the sections on Genesis and creation.

#5 SophiaH

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:04 PM

If you haven't checked it out yet, Reasons.org has an Educator's Help Desk section ( http://www.reasons.o...p-desk/overview ) on their website that lists suitable curriculum for OE. I am currently taking an online course through their Reasons Institute that will help prepare me to better discuss all the issues with my kiddos. I've ended up ditching the textbooks for the elementary years and went with interest-led studies. I'll probably use Prentice Hall's Science Explorer series starting in 7th, and I'll definitely be using Reasons to Believe's "Good Science, Good Faith" course for my dc at some point in high school.

#6 dereksurfs

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:54 PM

If you haven't checked it out yet, Reasons.org has an Educator's Help Desk section ( http://www.reasons.o...p-desk/overview ) on their website that lists suitable curriculum for OE. I am currently taking an online course through their Reasons Institute that will help prepare me to better discuss all the issues with my kiddos. I've ended up ditching the textbooks for the elementary years and went with interest-led studies. I'll probably use Prentice Hall's Science Explorer series starting in 7th, and I'll definitely be using Reasons to Believe's "Good Science, Good Faith" course for my dc at some point in high school.


Yes, I've looked over their site quite a bit. Still, there is not much curriculum for this life stage beyond what was already mentioned. I do like their class "Good Science, Good Faith" and will probably have our kids take it.

#7 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:25 PM

For those interested here are a couple which look worth considering. They were mentioned in the x-post I made in the general forum:

1. Behold and See Science by Catholic Heritage Curricula. Here is their 6th Grade Science text. I think they are working on middle school texts next.
2. Christian Schools International Here is their Life Science text for example.

#8 Syllieann

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:57 PM

For those interested here are a couple which look worth considering. They were mentioned in the x-post I made in the general forum:

1. Behold and See Science by Catholic Heritage Curricula. Here is their 6th Grade Science text. I think they are working on middle school texts next.
2. Christian Schools International Here is their Life Science text for example.


I just got the chc catalog a few days ago. It lists the middle school text as a 2 yr life science course. I was a little disappointed that it wouldnt be integrated like the other levels. However, life science is probably more affected than physical science by ye ideas so at least they have addressed the area of greatest need.

#9 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:10 PM

I just got the chc catalog a few days ago. It lists the middle school text as a 2 yr life science course. I was a little disappointed that it wouldnt be integrated like the other levels. However, life science is probably more affected than physical science by ye ideas so at least they have addressed the area of greatest need.


Hm,

Two years is kind of long for life science in middle school. I wonder what the scope and emphasis is over both years? It may be possible to use it for one of the two years.

Did they give a timeframe for it's release?

#10 Syllieann

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:22 PM

It says spring 2014. No s&s is given but it says it's an expanded and updated version of michael spear's life science. The original spears course gave a 1 yr or 2 yr schedule and chc added a catholic supplement.

#11 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

It says spring 2014. No s&s is given but it says it's an expanded and updated version of michael spear's life science. The original spears course gave a 1 yr or 2 yr schedule and chc added a catholic supplement.


That timeframe is good for us since we'll being doing Physical Science next year with a mixture of Christian and secular curriculum I've picked up. I agree that Life Science needs more coverage.

Syllieann, although I'm not Catholic I've had discussions with Catholic friends about these subjects. From my understanding most Catholics lean toward an Old Earth Creation or Theistic Evolution view of science and origins. Would you say this is generally true?

I'm not sure if you have used CHC's 'Behold and See' series yet for the younger years. But I'm wondering how they may address:

1. Age of the earth
2. Creation
3. Evolution

Would you happen to know or have a reference to their perspective on these areas?

Thanks,

#12 Syllieann

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 07:12 PM

I have not used them yet but they are on my radar for when i might need something more independent than bfsu. I know that they teach the same evidence for an old earth that you would find in a secular curriculum. In terms of evolution vs creation idk know specifically how they address it but most Catholics accept evolution as a process that is used by God as part of His plan. Opinions vary regarding whether humans were plopped down in current form or evolved and then given a soul when they reached a certain point or something in between. I would expect it to fall somewhere in there perhaps with acknowledgement that we havent filled in all the gaps in the fossil record yet.

#13 PachiSusan

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:01 PM

I don't personally know about this book, but I was given a link to research it. It sounds like exactly how I believe.

http://www.amazon.co...=A1N6INQ4SRJFXQ

#14 PachiSusan

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:02 PM

That timeframe is good for us since we'll being doing Physical Science next year with a mixture of Christian and secular curriculum I've picked up. I agree that Life Science needs more coverage.

Syllieann, although I'm not Catholic I've had discussions with Catholic friends about these subjects. From my understanding most Catholics lean toward an Old Earth Creation or Theistic Evolution view of science and origins. Would you say this is generally true?

I'm not sure if you have used CHC's 'Behold and See' series yet for the younger years. But I'm wondering how they may address:

1. Age of the earth
2. Creation
3. Evolution

Would you happen to know or have a reference to their perspective on these areas?

Thanks,


I am Catholic, and yes, I agree that it is generally true that Catholics lean towards Intelligent Design/Theistic Evolution and definitely Old Earth Creation.

#15 dereksurfs

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:15 PM

I don't personally know about this book, but I was given a link to research it. It sounds like exactly how I believe.

http://www.amazon.co...=A1N6INQ4SRJFXQ


Susan, this looks like a really good book!

Thanks,

#16 happymomofboys

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:15 AM

We'll be using Intellego Unit Studies for science this coming year combined with materials from Faraday Schools and supplemented with texts from CK12 for my oldest and Usborne and DK science books for my youngest.

#17 PachiSusan

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:53 AM

You are welcome. I searched my library and they don't have it so now I am seriously thinking of just purchasing it!

Susan, this looks like a really good book!

Thanks,



#18 Five More Minutes

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

But while I've discovered an abundance of YEC and secular curriculum I find there to be a significant gap in the area OEC or TE.


I don't have much to offer in the way of specific curriculum suggestions (my kids are younger than yours, so I have only the vaguest of plans for that age!). But I did just want to comment that I think that one of the reasons that there are few TE science programs out there is because there really isn't a need for them. Science is just ... science, and it feels a bit odd to have to label some science programs as "secular." (I know why we need to in the homeschooling world, and I respect that, but it still feels odd to me.)

What I miss more are good faith resources for us. The Farraday site is, I think, going to be very helpful in that respect.

#19 TracyP

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

Someone on this board had a great list of resources on her blog. She was a Christian in the OE/ Evolution camp. They were a mix of Christian and secular resources that she felt were not either bashing Christianity on the one side or teaching bad science on the other. I can't think who this was or what I would even search for. It was a couple years ago the last time I remember her posting on one of these threads. Does this ring a bell for anyone? I'm going to try a couple searches....

#20 TracyP

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:20 PM

No luck, but here are a couple other resources I ran across in my search (note: these range from 1st grade to adult level):

http://oldearthcreat...grades-k-5.html

http://shop.reasons....-Is-p/b0806.htm

http://www.amazon.co...n't just happen

http://www.amazon.co... God's Creation

http://shop.reasons....ory-p/b0901.htm

#21 PachiSusan

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:19 PM

No luck, but here are a couple other resources I ran across in my search (note: these range from 1st grade to adult level):

http://oldearthcreat...grades-k-5.html

http://shop.reasons....-Is-p/b0806.htm

http://www.amazon.co...9;t just happen

http://www.amazon.co...'s Creation

http://shop.reasons....ory-p/b0901.htm


I LOVE your first website!!! THank you so much! I have bookmarked it.

Darnit - I'm listening to all the videos and I have again come across something I truly believe (Old Earth Creationist) tied with something I don't (Biological Evolution is anti -Christian and wrong). SIGH.

I'm a square peg in a round hole...

#22 TracyP

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:27 PM

I LOVE your first website!!! THank you so much! I have bookmarked it.

Darnit - I'm listening to all the videos and I have again come across something I truly believe (Old Earth Creationist) tied with something I don't (Biological Evolution is anti -Christian and wrong). SIGH.

I'm a square peg in a round hole...

I hear ya on the square peg thing. What videos are you listening to? From that first site?

#23 Laura W.

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

First, here's another link:

http://www.oldearth.org/homeschool.htm - great website with 3 online courses for high school. There's a link on this page to recommended books (supplementary things, not curricula)


For junior high we've used Rainbow Science. It addresses evolution very briefly, and I didn't see anything at all on the age of the earth.


Here are some individual books we've used and liked that clearly teach OEC and/or TE

books by Michael Carroll - they are for elementary aged children

God Said It and "Bang" It Happened

My high schooler is reading Case for a Creator by Lee Stroebel. I believe there are also young adult and children's versions of this book. (There is one chapter on evolution, which you would want to address if you are TE)

I look forward to seeing if anything else gets suggested here.

Blessings,

Laura Williams

#24 PachiSusan

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

I hear ya on the square peg thing. What videos are you listening to? From that first site?


Yes, in the video where she teaches "When Should we teach about evolution". It's all the ways to fortify our kids with knowledge before they go out into the world and the world tells them things about evolution. Kinda pricked my bubble.

#25 PachiSusan

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:21 PM

First, here's another link:

http://www.oldearth.org/homeschool.htm - great website with 3 online courses for high school. There's a link on this page to recommended books (supplementary things, not curricula)



Laura - thank you. This quote is what our family believes:


4. Do you believe in evolution?

Old Earth Ministries believes that all forms of old earth creationism, including Theistic Evolution, are valid choices for a Christian. We accept that evolution may have been the method that God used to create life on this planet. From a theological point of view, there are no valid Biblical arguments against evolution.
Therefore, there is no reason why Theistic Evolution should not be considered a viable alternative to any other form of creation belief. It is possible to be a Christian, believe in an inerrant Bible, and believe in Theistic Evolution. In fact, you can even be a fundamentalist and believe in evolution.

#26 dereksurfs

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:48 PM

First, here's another link:

http://www.oldearth.org/homeschool.htm - great website with 3 online courses for high school. There's a link on this page to recommended books (supplementary things, not curricula)


For junior high we've used Rainbow Science. It addresses evolution very briefly, and I didn't see anything at all on the age of the earth.


Here are some individual books we've used and liked that clearly teach OEC and/or TE

books by Michael Carroll - they are for elementary aged children

God Said It and "Bang" It Happened

My high schooler is reading Case for a Creator by Lee Stroebel. I believe there are also young adult and children's versions of this book. (There is one chapter on evolution, which you would want to address if you are TE)

I look forward to seeing if anything else gets suggested here.

Blessings,

Laura Williams


Thanks for this, Laura. I am enjoying this website. Although I lean more toward YEC I still want to present TE to our children as a viable option. I especially don't want them to feel like they can only think 'one way' about creation as a Christian. In many areas of science and life there are mysteries. And so for some it's ok to say I'm not certain. But I'm open to learning more.

#27 TracyP

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:18 AM

Yes, in the video where she teaches "When Should we teach about evolution". It's all the ways to fortify our kids with knowledge before they go out into the world and the world tells them things about evolution. Kinda pricked my bubble.

I didn't have to time to actually look around her website, so thanks for the heads up. I do accept evolution and just assumed that was where this site came from, too - or at least that they were neutral about it.

#28 perkybunch

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

I'm not sure if you have used CHC's 'Behold and See' series yet for the younger years. But I'm wondering how they may address:

1. Age of the earth
2. Creation
3. Evolution

Would you happen to know or have a reference to their perspective on these areas?

Thanks,


I looked through my copy of Behold and See 6, and here are your answers:
1. While I did not find a specific age of the earth mentioned, it did mention the Sun as being 5 billion years old, and mentioned the universe as about 13 billion years old (if I am recalling that figure correctly).
2. Creation. It specifically talks about this in Chapter 17. I will pull a few quotes out, but it is a longer discussion: "Sometimes good Christians misunderstand the Big Bang theory and imagine that it is meant to show that God did not create the world. They would be surprised to learn that many scientists were prejudiced against the Big Bang theory precisely because it suggests that the world was created instead of always existing.... scientific discoveries about the origins of the world invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator.... Rather than being proof for Creation, the Big Bang theory is a description of what happened immediately after Creation -- of what happened the moment after God said, 'Let there be light.'"
3. It does not address Evolution in this book. That is outside the scope of topics covered.

HTH!

#29 dereksurfs

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:55 PM

I looked through my copy of Behold and See 6, and here are your answers:
1. While I did not find a specific age of the earth mentioned, it did mention the Sun as being 5 billion years old, and mentioned the universe as about 13 billion years old (if I am recalling that figure correctly).
2. Creation. It specifically talks about this in Chapter 17. I will pull a few quotes out, but it is a longer discussion: "Sometimes good Christians misunderstand the Big Bang theory and imagine that it is meant to show that God did not create the world. They would be surprised to learn that many scientists were prejudiced against the Big Bang theory precisely because it suggests that the world was created instead of always existing.... scientific discoveries about the origins of the world invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator.... Rather than being proof for Creation, the Big Bang theory is a description of what happened immediately after Creation -- of what happened the moment after God said, 'Let there be light.'"
3. It does not address Evolution in this book. That is outside the scope of topics covered.

HTH!

Thanks Perkybunch,

I really appreciate you looking this up from the text itself. :D

#30 HollyDay

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:31 PM

Why not just use texts designed for public schools like Holt and Glencoe? Also, if I am correct, PAC's science programs are considered secular. Hewitt's Conceptual Physics? Conceptual Chemistry?

#31 dereksurfs

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:42 PM

Why not just use texts designed for public schools like Holt and Glencoe? Also, if I am correct, PAC's science programs are considered secular. Hewitt's Conceptual Physics? Conceptual Chemistry?


Holly,

I will actually be doing this in part already for next year with Physical Science (chemistry and physics resources). However I am exploring other options for life science. The reason for this is that I do like the inclusion of God in science, especially when dealing with origins and creation since He is the author of it. But I don't expect everyone to see it this way as some don't mind going fully secular. Of course that is much easier from a curriculum perspective.

#32 dereksurfs

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:51 PM

It says spring 2014. No s&s is given but it says it's an expanded and updated version of michael spear's life science. The original spears course gave a 1 yr or 2 yr schedule and chc added a catholic supplement.

 

Well, here we are in 2014 and more information on this upcoming Life Science course from CHC is available here:

https://www.chcweb.c...oduct_info.html

Samples: https://www.chcweb.c...roducts_id=4232

Contents: https://www.chcweb.c...roducts_id=4232

 

It definitely looks interesting as I narrow options down for next Fall.  The other text I'm strongly considering is:

Christian Schools International - Life Science 2nd Edition



#33 fluffybunny

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:42 AM

I went through this dilemma myself a few months ago, if you remember. We are Theistic Evolutionists and I used Apologia General Science, omitting the YEC chapter. My son absolutely loved AGS and I, as a non science person, became interested in science for the first time. So after much hang-wringing, I decided to continue with Apologia Physical Science. So far I haven't found any YEC views: and Wile is a very engaging writer. He also seems so sensible and committed to scientific fact. There is a chapter at the back on Astrophysics where he briefly suggests readers explore Dr Humphry's view of the 'starlight problem'. Dr Humphrey's tries to say that the stars in the sky are no more than 6000 light years away :huh: . Humphreys' views have been totally rejected by the scientific community. From scanning Dr Wile's 2013 edition of APS it seems that he doesn't endorse Humphrey's but leaves it open. 

 

So we are sticking with Apologia simply because it's such an engaging read and every other science program is dry in comparion. For us, anyway. 



#34 Heathermomster

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:01 AM

The best science year that DS and I had was with a Christian Schools Itnl 5th grade science text.  That year was so much fun.  We still talk about it.

 

DS is really enjoying Derek Owens Physical Science right now.  



#35 dereksurfs

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:32 AM

I went through this dilemma myself a few months ago, if you remember. We are Theistic Evolutionists and I used Apologia General Science, omitting the YEC chapter. My son absolutely loved AGS and I, as a non science person, became interested in science for the first time. So after much hang-wringing, I decided to continue with Apologia Physical Science. So far I haven't found any YEC views: and Wile is a very engaging writer. He also seems so sensible and committed to scientific fact. There is a chapter at the back on Astrophysics where he briefly suggests readers explore Dr Humphry's view of the 'starlight problem'. Dr Humphrey's tries to say that the stars in the sky are no more than 6000 light years away :huh: . Humphreys' views have been totally rejected by the scientific community. From scanning Dr Wile's 2013 edition of APS it seems that he doesn't endorse Humphrey's but leaves it open. 

 

So we are sticking with Apologia simply because it's such an engaging read and every other science program is dry in comparison. For us, anyway. 

 

Glad to hear its working out, fluffybunny.  We are still using Apology for the elementary years as well.  Though I'm switching things for the middle school years.



#36 dereksurfs

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 01:42 AM

The best science year that DS and I had was with a Christian Schools Itnl 5th grade science text.  That year was so much fun.  We still talk about it.

 

DS is really enjoying Derek Owens Physical Science right now.  

 

Thank you, Heathermomster!  This is great news for us.  I haven't heard many reviews on this curriculum.  So its great to get some positive feedback on the publisher.  I may get the Life and Earth Science texts from them.  Did you just use the textbook only?

 

They also offer a 60-Day preview policy which lowers the risk of buying something that doesn't work out for whatever reason. 



#37 Heathermomster

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 08:52 AM

Thank you, Heathermomster! This is great news for us. I haven't heard many reviews on this curriculum. So its great to get some positive feedback on the publisher. I may get the Life and Earth Science texts from them. Did you just use the textbook only?

They also offer a 60-Day preview policy which lowers the risk of buying something that doesn't work out for whatever reason.

I've only seen the 5th grade text, which was an integrated text that my son's school used. I pulled him mid-year and purchased a teacher manual and student text from Amazon and Alibris. I used the book as a spine and supplemented it with hands-on. It was a simple, straightforward book. An older copy even because son's school didn't replace their books very often.

I'd forgotten about that publisher until I saw your link. If the return policy is good, I'd definitely look at it. That publisher is known for selling textbooks to private Christian schools. I don't know how the book handles Big Bang or the various creation views. You may hate the text. Anyho...

 

ETA:  The TM was an essential part of the 5th grade text.



#38 Aiden

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

:bigear:

 

Coming to this party late, and it will be later still before I need to pick a curriculum (we're about to start PreK), but if I follow the thread, I can always find it, right?



#39 laughing lioness

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:34 AM

I like the Apologia high school (written by Wile) much better than the eled as far as age of earth issues goes. My kids read most of the Tiner texts for eled, listen to Aplogia Mp3's and read a boat-load of science books from library.  

FIL, who is an evolutionist, and dh, who is more oec -both of whom have grad degrees in science areas, think Apologia is a good science text for high school- 4 out of 5 kids so far have read through Phys, Gen, Bio, and the olders have gone through Chem, A& P and Physics to varying degrees -all of them scoring near perfect in Science on standardized tests.

 

We have also used Prentice Hall, GC, Bio 101 and Chem 101, NOAA and NASA, Paleo-Judaica, Archeology web-sites, along with Science News, Biblical Archaeology Review and Nat'l Geo mags. Science is a regular topic of discussion around here, so whatever text we use, is heavily influenced by the daily doses of archaeology, space and weather discussions. 



#40 Erin

Erin

    won't let her babies grow up to be cowboys...

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:43 AM

I use secular resources for science. Inclusion of God into our science happens through conversations. My son is doing a big creation/evolution study looking at the different perspectives as well as reading books and watching debates from the different perspectives. I tended to choose resources that leaned toward progressive creationism (old earth), but I'm not picky about what my son believes. The study he is doing is part of his Bible time. For science we are using secular textbooks. He wants to be a scientist so I've been very picky about only using secular resources for science. As someone who believes that God created the universe, I find that studying the natural world naturally elicits awe and wonder towards the Creator. I don't need a textbook to do that for me.

 

Well, I was going to write all this out, but Embassy beat me to it.  

So---what she said.  





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