PSAT as benchline - Prep or No Prep?

[bobbeym]

We've decided to have DS take the PSAT in 10th this fall as a baseline of where he's at in comparison with other 10th graders.

 

We already know that his reading comprehension is generally pretty good, his vocab average, and his writing below level. We're still working our way through WWS1 but DH has slacked off on it and I'm going to have to go back and re-work through it with DS.

 

He'll only have 1-2 months of Geometry when he tests, so I expect that portion of the math section to be lower. At least we've finally gotten past the mental block he had with algebra and will wrap that up soon.

 

Because we're using this strictly as a baseline measurement, I'll show him the practice exams so he knows what to expect on the test, but I kind of feel that too much prep would defeat the purpose of using it as a baseline.

 

I'm really just curious what other Hive members would do in this case.

[AngieW in Texas]

My oldest took it cold the first time (10th grade). She had done standardized testing with the ITBS, so she knew how to fill in the bubble sheets. The only thing I really prepped her for was how to fill out the identifying information. She did fine. She actually only increased her score by about 10 points when she retook it the next year after using an online prep program. She was nowhere near commended status even.

 

My middle dd was extremely nervous about testing. She had also done the ITBS nearly every year since 4th grade, but it had always been done with me. The school where she was going to be testing offered a 2-day prep workshop at the actual school, so I signed her up for that. Just knowing where the bathrooms and water fountains were really helped to relieve her stress. That was all the prep she had for 10th grade. She scored just high enough for National Merit, but it didn't count because she was only in 10th grade. I had her actually go through a B&M prep program for her 11th grade PSAT. Unfortunately, she had a bad night the night before the test and got only about 4 hours of sleep, so her score was about 20 points lower than it had been the year before and she just made the cutoff for commended. When she took the SAT 3 months later, she got a full night of sleep the night before and knocked it out of the park. I only had her take the SAT once because there was no way she was going to be able to raise her reading or math scores any higher.

[regentrude]

Other. I would not have my kids do a *lot* of prep, but I also would not want them to test cold turkey: they need to be familiar with the type of questions that are asked and with the format and the nbubble sheet. If they lose time figuring this out during the test, the result is not an accurate baseline. I would have them work at least one practice test to know what to expect.

[creekland]

When you sign up they should give you a booklet that contains one previous "real" test. When my guys did the PSAT in 10th I had them work through that test (with a timer set, but doing all the questions if they ran out of time) so they would know what to expect (and look over all the "other" questions they need to fill out regarding major, etc).

 

Then they took that test as a baseline.

 

I voted "other" because it's not really cold turkey.

 

Mine raised their scores about 20 points on the 11th grade test. One prepped well. The other prepped under protest. The one who prepped well did far better than the other, but he still didn't get NMSF because on the actual test day his watch was set differently from the school's clock and he didn't catch that. He didn't get to finish the first math section due to time... any one of the three questions he didn't get to would have nudged him over the edge.

 

Things happen. He's at a great school with fantastic aid anyway. Being a NMF would have been nice and opened more doors, but not getting it didn't "ruin" his chances.

[Candid]

We did this last year, although partly by accident. My dh was hospitalized for several weeks and had a lot of things that need my attention just prior to the PSAT So not only no prep, but high stress.

 

This year for his junior taking, he is prepping over the summer.

[Laura in CA]

When you sign up they should give you a booklet that contains one previous "real" test. When my guys did the PSAT in 10th I had them work through that test (with a timer set, but doing all the questions if they ran out of time) so they would know what to expect (and look over all the "other" questions they need to fill out regarding major, etc).

 

Then they took that test as a baseline.

 

I voted "other" because it's not really cold turkey.

 

 

 

This is exactly what we did. The testing environment (the local high school) was unfamiliar and overwhelming enough; I didn't want my kids to also have to deal with a completely unfamiliar test and testing format. Also, one of my sons will be NM semifinalist, and it behooved us to have him not take it completely cold (i.e., the PSAT was more than just prep for the SAT for him; it was also a gateway to NMF).

[dirty ethel rackham]

I voted "other." I would have started prepping for the SAT by this point, so any SAT prep will be PSAT prep. My kids take the SAT rather early.

[bobbeym]

DS has years of experience taking standardized TAKS tests so I'm not worried about that. He can fill in bubbles on an answer sheet perfectly. I'd certainly review SAT questions with him so he's familiar with what to expect as far as that goes. I'm just not sure that I want him to spend hours worth of time over the next few months prepping for the test.

[MorningGlory]

I voted "other", too. My 10th grade son will be taking the PSAT for a baseline score this fall. The only prep I will have him do is one practice test at home...probably with no timer and most likely over the course of a couple of days the week prior to the test. He has not taken a standardized test in years, so I want him to at least brush up on his bubbling skills. :)

 

I will do some prep with him for the junior year test since several of the schools he is most interested in offer very nice NM packages. I'd be quite interested in him securing one of those! lol!

[Gwen in VA]

An "other" vote here.

 

I third (or fourth) the idea that throwing a kid into the PSAT with NO exposure to the test is not providing a baseline.

 

By 10th grade my kids had done the SAT Question of the Day for a year or two and worked through Number2.com, a reasonable and free online prep program.

 

I think a bit of basic prep will help provide a meaningful baseline.

[G5052]

No prep other than typical academics. We've always done annual standardized testing, and have done group testing for the last four years.

 

We need to do some work on the math portion, but otherwise I was extremely pleased. We'll see what this year holds after working on the math.

[Pawz4me]

I voted no, but in truth I guess oldest DS did prep -- he signed up for the SAT question of the day a few months before taking the PSAT as a tenth grader. Although I'm not sure he paid much attention to those e-mails!

 

I realize I'm going against the flow a bit here, and a lot depends on the kid in question, the financial situation of the family and the caliber of the colleges/universities the student is aiming for. But in general I don't believe in making high-pressure tests any more high pressure than they already are. And since the PSAT in tenth means little to nothing, it's not something I'm going to "encourage" my kids to stress about in any way.

[StephanieZ]

I'd have your child spend 2 to 5 hours prepping in the month prior to the test. That modest amount of prepping will allow him to get comfortable with the question types, time constraints, etc. I wouldn't focus a lot of specific prep for the 10th grade test.

 

Specifically, I'd have him/her do one or two full practice tests.

 

That's what I had my dd do for her first SAT which was also a baseline/practice for the PSAT next year. It worked well for us. For the next go round (11th grade PSAT and any subsequent SATs/ACTs, we'll do more practice tests but also work on test strategies/tips as well as some content studying for any weak areas that we can identify from her first SAT as well as any practice tests.

[StephanieZ]

oh, ps., I agree that the attitude about test prep varies a lot with kid/family/goals. My dc should each be in the running for Nat'l Merit, so 11th grade PSATs are HUGE for us financially and will open up many more schools for our kids, as we won't qualify for need based aid but can not at all afford 50-60k that the Expected Family Contribution would be . . . So, test scores, specifically PSAT in 11th, is very important in our house. Even with that, I wouldn't do a lot of prep for the 10th gr tests. For those ones, my main goals are to get comfortable with the test procedures/venue/etc as well as to identify areas that DO need prep for the test that count in 11th & 12th grade.

[Grantmom]

Do the scores count in any way, besides qualifying for National Merit awards scholarships? If they don't prep, and don't do well, could that in any way impact them? Will colleges see that at all?

 

I hear about friends' kids who start getting mail from colleges quite early. Is this because they have been identified through the PSAT?

[AngieW in Texas]

The PSAT can only help you. It can't hurt you at all. Nobody reports their PSAT score to schools unless they are National Merit finalists (and I'm not sure that they even report the actual score). My dd was just commended. She did get a special form from National Merit to send in to her top two schools to name them as her top two schools, but she did not report her score at all.

[Julie in MN]

I think a bit of basic prep will help provide a meaningful baseline.

 

I do a bit of prep for this reason.

 

If we'd done zero prep, then my son would have said, "I could have done way better if I had prepped," but I'd have no idea whether that was true.

 

I don't do lots of prep, though. I'm a rebel, I guess, but I don't like feeling like I'm teaching to the test. But I do like some of the prep ideas I've heard on this board over the years, like doing mock tests at 8 am on Saturday mornings :)

 

Julie

[Grantmom]

Can you take the PSAT more than once, and if so, does each new test provide you a new chance to get National Merit?

 

I thought I'd heard of some kids taking this test as young as 7th grade. Is that right?

[creekland]

The PSAT is offered twice each year - both in Oct (one Wed and the following Sat). Kids are allowed to pick one or the other to test each year, but not both.

 

ONLY the junior year score counts for National Merit. Even as homeschoolers, you have to designate a grade for the PSAT. You can't say one year is a junior year, then claim the next year as a junior year as well.

 

I don't know how early some take the test. I know our school only offers it to sophomores and juniors with the vast majority taking it merely as SAT practice with no thoughts of National Merit anything. There is absolutely no reason to take it as a senior as scores don't come back until Dec - well after many applications need to be in and "real" tests taken.

 

No college uses the PSAT for admission - they want the SAT or ACT (no preference between the two) or a few schools are test optional - meaning they don't need scores. Many of those feel differently for homeschoolers though...

 

BUT, yes, colleges buy mailing lists from certain demographics of the PSAT (scores or location or whatever), so it often is the source of colleges mail and e-mail (as are the SAT and ACT).

[Grantmom]

I was just wondering, if you were taking it with the purpose of having a baseline for how your student does on an SAT-like test, if you could just start taking it at any time and take it as often as you want. It seems like it would be really good practice for the SAT, so is there any reason not to take it as a freshman, just to start off practicing?

[Kareni]

I was just wondering, if you were taking it with the purpose of having a baseline for how your student does on an SAT-like test, if you could just start taking it at any time and take it as often as you want. It seems like it would be really good practice for the SAT, so is there any reason not to take it as a freshman, just to start off practicing?

 

The PSAT can serve as practice for the SAT, but the tests are different in length and content. For SAT practice, I simply had my daughter take practice tests at home.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Maura in NY]

Both boys did enough prep to become familiar with the test, since it was their first experience with testing outside the home. I didn't want the anxiety level to be any higher than necessary.

[Musicmom]

We prepped for about 6 weeks before the 10th grade PSAT. Not high pressure, but each of my dc went through a prep book, taking 1 or 2 tests in that as well as the practice test provided in the College Board booklet. Just a different perspective, but we did not use the real test as a baseline. We were aiming at National Merit, so I considered the first practice test they took at home as a beginning baseline, and the actual PSAT as a baseline of what they could do with prep and experience.

 

We found that, more than bubbling experience and format familiarity, there was a certain knack to solving the math problems (especially), and to dealing with the reading questions as well--and my dc needed practice with those (writing went well from the get-go.)

 

Every child is different, but for mine, if they had gone into the 10th grade PSAT without much prep, and gotten scores similar to the ones they got on their first practice test at home, they would have been really discouraged. They improved a lot from the prep and went on to score well on the 10th grade test. That in turn fueled their confidence and allowed them to refine their prep for the next year. (Both did go on to make our state's cut-off for NM semifinalist.)

[MorningGlory]

Every child is different, but for mine, if they had gone into the 10th grade PSAT without much prep, and gotten scores similar to the ones they got on their first practice test at home, they would have been really discouraged. They improved a lot from the prep and went on to score well on the 10th grade test. That in turn fueled their confidence and allowed them to refine their prep for the next year. (Both did go on to make our state's cut-off for NM semifinalist.)

 

Thank you for sharing this perspective. I had not considered this possible scenario.

[mjbucks1]

I did not have my ds prep specifically for the PSAT when he took it this padt fall as a 9th grader. He took the SAT in 7th grade and did ok on it. I really just wanted to see where he would place with no prep. His score was high enough this year that, if he were a junior, he would have been a commended scholar. I am going to have him take it again this fall with prep and see where his score falls.

[bobbeym]

DH and I talked and agreed that DS will prep enough to be familiar with the style of the PSAT and maybe do 1 practice exam. We're not going to spend a lot of time prepping for it though b/c DH thinks that it would defeat our purpose to achieve a true baseline.

 

We know DS will have some gaps in math & writing, but really need an objective way to identify just how significant those gaps might be.

[shawthorne44]

I would assume that the other kids are prepping, and that some prepping would be required to compare evenly with the other kids. You can always start out the prep by taking a past test at home in as close of conditions as possible.

[Siebelink6]

We are preparing my son to take the test this fall for 10th as a practice. I do want him to prepare so he feels comfortable.

 

I'm looking at various PSAT preparation books. 

 

Does anyone have a particular favorite book for PSAT prep?  I'm leaning towards Gruber's after reading the amazon reviews and book jacket, but I have no real experience or opinion!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

We are preparing my son to take the test this fall for 10th as a practice. I do want him to prepare so he feels comfortable.

 

I'm looking at various PSAT preparation books.

 

Does anyone have a particular favorite book for PSAT prep? I'm leaning towards Gruber's after reading the amazon reviews and book jacket, but I have no real experience or opinion!

The PSAT is being revised for fall 2015 and the SAT will be revised shortly after. Given that, I'm not sure that prep books by companies other than College Board will represent more than well educated guesses.

 

There are some sample questions out at College Board, but I haven't seen a full sample test yet.

 

In the past we found the best prep was more reading quality literature and more math lessons under the belt.

[Michelle_NC]

I would go over some general testing strategies for the PSAT/SAT.  

[JanetC]

DD did minor prep: Getting used to the sample questions in the booklet you get with test registration, knowing the appropriate homeschool code, etc.  She did not take a full practice test straight through or drill on specific question types.

[Michelle_NC]

I always feel so torn on these types of tests.  One of the reasons we chose to homeschool was to get away from standardized testing that monopolizes educational time and energy.  But it's part of the college admission game, so there's no avoiding this one.  

[KarenC]

I would do a little prep.  I would make sure he knows the sections that will be covered and the types of questions asked.

[MarkT]

I voted cold turkey but I would say that includes several hours of how the test works prep - no subject matter review - the whole idea of the 10th grade PSAT is to see where your student needs help

 

that's what we did last fall (9th grader but school forces all 9-11th year students to take PSAT)

[StephanieZ]

update on this old thread . . .

 

I had my now-senior dd take the SAT in June of Sophomore year as practice/prep for the fall Junior year PSAT. (She scored high enough on that SAT to be the "verifying SAT score she'd need for national merit, so that pressure was thus removed. That score also reinforced that she was in the range of National Merit.) Then I force-marched her through about 12 hours of PSAT prep the month before the PSAT. (At least 10x the prep I'd ever imposed for anything else ever.)

 

That resulted in a PSAT score that qualified her for NMSF (and NMF designation expected shortly), and we have full-ride merit offers on deck from a few great state universities. She's planning on attending U. Alabama with a 10-semester (including grad school if desired, including study abroad if desired, etc.) +++ merit package based on her NM status. It's valued at somewhere around 150k. It makes a huge difference to us, and it means that most of her "Bank of Mom and Dad" college support can be reserved for any additional support during grad or professional school, hopefully enabling her to get out of whatever schooling she wants debt free or nearly so. 

 

So, I'm thinking those 12 or so hours of test prep paid back in about $10,000+ per hour. Not bad return.

 

I sure plan to force march my other kids through PSAT prep as well. For them, I'll probably do even more, lol. 

 

All that's to say that if your kid is close to being national merit level in their testing, then test prep can be very, very valuable. All the prep in the world can't guarantee performance on a one-time-only short test, but it can help, and it's worth the effort if merit aid would matter to your family.

[Siebelink6]

My 10th grade son is preparing to take the PSAT this fall as a practice test for next year.  I am requiring him to spend an hour a day going through the Kaplan prep book in August and September. 

 

[MarkT]

update on this old thread . . .

 

I had my now-senior dd take the SAT in June of Sophomore year as practice/prep for the fall Junior year PSAT. (She scored high enough on that SAT to be the "verifying SAT score she'd need for national merit, so that pressure was thus removed. That score also reinforced that she was in the range of National Merit.) Then I force-marched her through about 12 hours of PSAT prep the month before the PSAT. (At least 10x the prep I'd ever imposed for anything else ever.)

 

That resulted in a PSAT score that qualified her for NMSF (and NMF designation expected shortly), and we have full-ride merit offers on deck from a few great state universities. She's planning on attending U. Alabama with a 10-semester (including grad school if desired, including study abroad if desired, etc.) +++ merit package based on her NM status. It's valued at somewhere around 150k. It makes a huge difference to us, and it means that most of her "Bank of Mom and Dad" college support can be reserved for any additional support during grad or professional school, hopefully enabling her to get out of whatever schooling she wants debt free or nearly so. 

 

So, I'm thinking those 12 or so hours of test prep paid back in about $10,000+ per hour. Not bad return.

 

I sure plan to force march my other kids through PSAT prep as well. For them, I'll probably do even more, lol. 

 

All that's to say that if your kid is close to being national merit level in their testing, then test prep can be very, very valuable. All the prep in the world can't guarantee performance on a one-time-only short test, but it can help, and it's worth the effort if merit aid would matter to your family.

I would agree with this approach for the 11th Grade PSAT but not earlier where you are just trying to gauge strengths and weaknesses and ballpark future scores

[happycc]

My daughters who are in 8th grade started taking PSAT since 6th grade. I did not prep that I could remember aside for regular school work they do here. 

It was one 1)give them exposure to a testing situation like SAT at a location different than their usual STAR testing now Common Core testing place 2) give them experience with that type of format of testing 2) you can take this test as many times as you want

 

I am glad I did as my girls said they are not scared of high school work whatsoever. They see it as completely doable. They are excited in fact with high school because of it because many of the problems were familiar or at least looked interesting and fun to my girls. I have a baseline for when Common Core took over now. There has been two years of no real data based on the Common Core practice non scored test they took one year and then the other year. Plus Common Core is nothing compared to the STAR testing they took. With the PSAT tests they took last couple of years, I saw mass improvements in most of their scores and that gave me an idea of what curriculum/program was working for them and what was not and what was or wasn't being applied and generalized outside of the class or curriculum.

 

I read somewhere and spoke to college guidance people to take the PSAT, SAT, ACT as often as possible. Get practiced in test taking skills, deal with anxiety, and on the problems. My girls have taken the PSAT twice now, going in there again this year, next year and the following year...they will have plenty of practice and not be nervous and have an intense pressure to do well since they have had so many changes already. I believe you can choose your best score and send that to colleges etc.  I could be wrong. 

[RegGuheert]

If ninth grade, they do no prep. In tenth grade, they do some prep so that they go into eleventh grade with a fairly decent score under their belt and further prep to give them the tools and confidence to do their best for the "real" test.

[Grantmom]

I know this has been discussed, but I am still unclear, so please forgive me for asking again.  But with regards to taking the tests multiple times, I still have some questions.

 

With the PSAT, it seems like it wouldn't matter how many times they take it, because those scores are not seen by colleges, correct?  So, basically, taking this as practice so that you can go into the time you take it in 11th grade could only benefit you, because getting that score high enough is what can get you National Merit aid.

 

With the SAT, it seems like if you literally took it 10 times or something, that it might look bad.  Does it?  I know that some schools superscore, etc, but some schools also ask to see all scores.  So, if you are leaving all of your options open and not wanting to close the doors on any one school in particular, does it look bad if you score in one range when you take it in 9th and 10th grade, and then go up to a new range when you take it in 11th and 12th?  Like, will it look like some of that is simply from the learning of "how" to take the test?  

[dirty ethel rackham]

It is true that the PSAT is not seen by the schools, unless you report it.  However, it is not a test that is easily taken over and over again.  It is only offered once a year, through a high school.  None of these schools are obligated to allow non-registered students to take the test at their school. 

 

With the SAT, it is very easy to take over and over again as it is offered several times a year and you sign up online without the school's permission.  However, any scores taken after 8th grade will likely be seen.  Some schools don't care if you've taken it multiple times.  I haven't run into any that have.  But my data set is pretty small. 

[RegGuheert]

None of these schools are obligated to allow non-registered students to take the test at their school.

 

I'm quite sure the law in our state, VA, obligates the school board to make this test available to homeschoolers and to communicate their plan on how that is done to all the homeschoolers in their jurisdiction.

 

That's not to say that the schools don't frequently violate that law...  :tongue_smilie:

[Grantmom]

I was just responding to the post about having their child take the PSAT from 6th grade on, that would be quite a few times.     

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm quite sure the law in our state, VA, obligates the school board to make this test available to homeschoolers and to communicate their plan on how that is done to all the homeschoolers in their jurisdiction.

 

That's not to say that the schools don't frequently violate that law...  :tongue_smilie:

That may be true in VA, but the College Board does not require it.   Based upon the difficulty in finding a testing site that many expressed on these boards, most states do not require it.  I am fortunate to live in such a cooperative district.  Many districts around me are not so welcoming of homeschoolers.  And the private schools are a no-go for any non-tuition paying student. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

I was just responding to the post about having their child take the PSAT from 6th grade on, that would be quite a few times.     

That is, if the school allows it.  Most of the high schools in our area only allow academically-talented sophomores (those who might qualify for NMS) and encourage all juniors to take it.  Some only allow juniors registered at that school to take it (and only those who they think might do well.)  The SAT can be taken at younger ages through talent search organizations.