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Sil situation - input, please!


BakersDozen
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I need to know if something should be said and, if so, by whom? We do not tell immediate family if I am expecting until I am quite far along. With the # of losses I've had (beginning #12 now...sigh) and the overall attitude from family about our "happy" news, we just prefer to wait.

 

My sil asked dh and me in separate emails earlier this year if I am pg. She asked because when summer plans were being discussed I said I was not planning on traveling this summer. I've had other summers with no traveling so why sil honed in on the possibility of my being pg is a mystery. She was told 'no' by both dh and me (because at the time I was between losses).

 

Dh just got another email from sil asking the same thing. Same subject led to the question (summer travel).

 

I'm a bit ticked off. Never would I dream of approaching someone and asking if they are expecting. It's none of my darn business and who knows if that person is actually pg but not wanting to tell (hence forcing them to either lie or spill their news before they were ready), ttc but not succeeding, or, like me, experiencing a loss?

 

Personally, I'd like to tell my sil to butt out, mind her own darn business, and remind her that I showed her the same courtesy. I knew weeks before she announced both of her pregnancies that she was expecting (mama's intuition) but didn't say a word. I'd like the same from her.

 

So...say something? Don't say anything? Dh brings it up? I bring it up?

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"why on earth would you ask such a personal question? :eek: (accompanied by very hard stare, rinse repeat as needed. I've even had people preface with "I know this is a personal question . . " yet they ask anyway. "why yes, that is a personal question." and that's all they get for an answer from me.)

 

"My travel plans do not affect *your* plans, and you needn't concern yourself." whether you are traveling this summer or not, it isn't any of her business why. (though you could tell her you just want to annoy her. ;) ) Your travel plans aren't going to be causing her to change her plans, so they are irrelevant TO HER.

 

If you're feeling gracious, you can add "If we have anything to announce, we'll let you know."

 

turn it around and make it about her nosiness.

 

(some people are so unsatisfied in their own life, they must butt into other's. a woman of my acquaintence who also knew my sil told her I was pg. I have NO idea where she got the idea, but my sil called me to ask, informing me she'd been told by this other woman. I then shared this other woman had on at least one occasion announced her own pg before even taking a test. she wasn't. she's not a credible source for anything.)

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Could you just tell her that you don't like to discuss any possible pregnancies due to your past losses? It isn't that off the wall a question for someone who hasn't struggled and she may just have no clue that it bothers you.

 

FWIW, because I don't travel well when pregnant, whether I was would be the first question everyone in my family would ask if we mentioned not travelling.

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Personally, I'd like to tell my sil to butt out, mind her own darn business,

That instinct is exactly right -- now you just need to translate it into appropriate and tactful language. Two people upthread have had both of my ideas: #1: A variation on, "My goodness what a personal question!" or #2: A variation on, "If there's anything to say, I will be sure to include you at that time."

 

If she hasn't learned yet, she needs you to teach her that asking a question does not always lead to getting an answer. That's something everybody needs to learn sooner or later, and last time would have been better than this time. She also needs to know that being intrusive can damage the quality of her relationships. Therefore, it would be best if your response was either very brief or quite cool/formal in tone. Perhaps even change the subject line to, "Regarding your nosy question" -- or something like that, to communicate openly (not passively) that you consider her actions inappropriate.

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Guest inoubliable

Um, please don't take this in a shitty way but.... you've been pregnant 23 times, with the end result of 11 children. If I knew you IRL, I'd wonder when you *weren't* pregnant and not with any maliciousness. Perhaps she wasn't being nosy but honestly trying to plan out a family oriented summer and wanted to be sure she didn't inconvenience you since you tend to be pregnant frequently. I'd let it go. You've got more important things to worry about, to be honest.

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First of all, it's a big risk asking someone who is not your unmarried, minor aged, daughter if she's pregnant:

 

1. If she is and wanted you to know at this time she would have told you already. Clearly there's a reason (which you are NOT entitled to know) she hasn't mentioned it.

2. If she is but doesn't want to be, it's a seriously emotionally charged situation and not a topic to be discussed with anyone but the father.

3. If she's not but wants to be, you could be bringing up a sad topic that isn't any of your business unless she mentions it on her own without cajoling.

4. If she's not but was for a tragically short time and miscarried, you could be bringing up a sensitive topic that isn't any of your business unless she mentions it on her own without cajoling. See #2.

5. If she was and didn't want to be and then went through a miscarriage it's not a topic she's going to discuss with you.

6. If she's not you may be sending the message that she looks pregnant.

7. My terminally ill SIL looks 6 months pregnant as a symptom of her cancer. People ask her if she's pregnant all the time. So in addition to the pain of treatment, a shortened time with her 8 and 12 year old children, self consciousness of losing a breast and having terrible scars from the reconstruction surgery, the weight gain from one medication that causes her to be constantly hungry which negatively affects her other treatments, she has to handle an awkward situation anyone with a little common sense could easily avoid. Is she supposed to say, "No, I'm not pregnant, my abdomen is distended because of my terminal cancer. You thought it was a no big deal, chit chatty question. Aren't you surprised at this shockingly awkward moment you created because you didn't think the answer could possibly be no. Now, thanks to you, this time when I wasn't thinking about my cancer has been ruined, but at least your curiosity has been satisfied. "

 

It's like when my middle child had alopecia and lost her eyelashes and half her hair. She was asked, "Are those your real eyelashes?" When they clearly assumed they were real. Well, her real eyelashes were as long as fake ones, but they fell out, so she wore fake ones instead. It never dawned on them to ask themselves, "What if the answer is no? Should I still ask the question instead of assuming I know more than I do?"

 

If she really is just trying to schedule something around you, she can do that without asking about a pregnancy. Asking for an explanation is putting herself in a place of authority over you-a place she clearly doesn't belong or shes being a busy body wanting personal information people have different ideas about when and with whom that information is to be shared. It's never appropriate to be the person to ask if you're not the father of the possible baby. People over stepping personal bounds must never be indulged with information they're not entitled to or with explanations about why you don't want to tell them.

 

She can simply ask something along the lines of, "We're planning to go to ______________________ from _____________ to _________________ this summer and wondering if you guys would like to join us. Let us know if you're interested by _______________so we can hammer out all of the details." You can respond with, "No thanks, that's not going to work out for us this time but thanks for the invitation." or "Sounds good, send me all the details."

 

And, based on what I think I understand from your original post, you have already answered that you don't plan on traveling. So, the way I see it, she's being obnoxious. She's been told you're not traveling. End of story. Your husband needs to tell her as firmly and bluntly as possible, "We already answered that. [the travel question.]Don't ask again. Any pregnancy announcements will be done when, how, and with whom we choose. Don't ask again." Do not offer explanations.

 

Not everyone had good parents who emphasized the wisdom of mind your own business, don't be a busy body, people will tell you what they want you to know when they want you to know it, and other important social skills.

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Guest inoubliable

 

Asking for an explanation is putting herself in a place of authority over you-a place she clearly doesn't belong...

 

 

Well now that's the weirdest thing I've read in this whole post.

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1st- I do not think you are in any way obligated to answer that sort of question. Jean's suggestion for a deflective response seems as tactful as you can get if the situation is distressing you.

 

2nd- Your post sounds like one of those things that isn't in and of itself a big deal, but a big deal because of family history and culture. In my family the women especially are firmly in each other's business about things like pregnancies, colonoscopies, menstral cycles, etc.

 

I hope you are able to handle the unwanted inquiries in a way that reinforces your boundaries without damaging your relationships. I know that balance is sometimes a difficult one to find. ((Hugs))

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Well now that's the weirdest thing I've read in this whole post.

 

The only people we owe an explanation are those in authority over us (like a minor child/parent situation) or those we directly affect by withholding critical information (like the father of the baby.) She is neither. Asking for an explanation when you aren't owed one (especially as incessantly as the SIL in this situation seems to be asking) is big headed. People who see themselves a peers or subordinates (like a minor child) would not see themselves as entitled to an explanation. Western cultures are far more rigid about personal privacy boundaries, family autonomy and who has the right to ask what of extended relatives. Even an adult parent would have no right to ask an adult child about such things-especially after someone chose not to answer more than once like in the OP's situation.

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OP,

 

Is your SIL an immigrant or the child of immigrants? East Asian cultures have far fewer personal privacy boundaries about extended relatives, acquaintances and strangers. Our parenting classes for our international S. Korean adoption had to spend an hour preparing parents for what are considered shockingly rude questions by older female Asian immigrants in the US. I don't know it that's the only type of immigrant known for this or if there are others but an Asian child in a white family draws Asian attention very reliably. I've had a couple of first hand experiences in that department.

 

It's also why so many interracial marriages with East Asian immigrant in-laws have a reputation for more stress than interracial marriages with in-laws who aren't immigrants. Maybe other types of immigrants are known for this too? What is considered an acceptable question or advice giving by in-laws in their country of origin is grossly offensive here. They really need to prep immigrants before they come here to avoid these types of problems-it causes all sorts of unnecessary problems. If people are born and raised here, they should know it could go very badly if they ask such things.

 

Is it possible your SIL has Asperger's? People with that kind of social insensitivity have to have things spelled out for them. They honestly can't pick up on the fact that after a couple of opportunities you have chosen not to answer the question. They're not read between the lines or fill in the blanks kind of people and it's not their fault. Direct and specific is helpful for them.

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I don't understand why her questions are considered upsetting.

 

I don't ask people if they are pregnant, but if someone asked my dh, even twice, I wouldn't think twice about it. I don't see it as rude. I would wonder why she was so curious, but I wouldn't be upset in the slightest.

 

Posts like this make me wonder if I'm a huge social clod. I don't seem to get the subtleties that other people get.

 

With all that said, if this were me, I would say, "Nope! Why are you asking?" Because I am genuinely curious about why she's asking.

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I don't understand why her questions are considered upsetting.

 

I don't ask people if they are pregnant, but if someone asked my dh, even twice, I wouldn't think twice about it. I don't see it as rude. I would wonder why she was so curious, but I wouldn't be upset in the slightest.

 

Posts like this make me wonder if I'm a huge social clod. I don't seem to get the subtleties that other people get.

 

With all that said, if this were me, I would say, "Nope! Why are you asking?" Because I am genuinely curious about why she's asking.

 

 

If you're a social clod, you're not the only one here!!!

 

If you've been pregnant over TWENTY times, I think I'd be more shocked if the SIL didn't ask about pregnancy. Because it seems like that's practically a foregone conclusion at this point. :laugh:

 

OP, I'd just own it. You have a lot of kids. You've had some misfortunes too. I'd just laugh and say, "I might be!" Because yeah, you might be evidently.

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My sil is the kind who gathers information then reports to my mil. She is nosy and rude, and if either dh or I asked her if she was expecting we would be put in our place right quick. She also knows I do not tell family about pregnancy until I am good and ready so for her to ask is nothing less than intrusive.

 

I've asked dh to tell her (if it comes up again) to butt out (those were my words, he will phrase it much nicer). I've had others ask me and have been nice, smiled, said either, "No" or "I was but I lost the baby." But my sil is not asking because she cares or because she doesn't want to inconvenience me - far from it! She is being rude and doing to me what she would not tolerate being done to her.

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I don't understand why her questions are considered upsetting.

 

I don't ask people if they are pregnant, but if someone asked my dh, even twice, I wouldn't think twice about it. I don't see it as rude. I would wonder why she was so curious, but I wouldn't be upset in the slightest.

 

Posts like this make me wonder if I'm a huge social clod. I don't seem to get the subtleties that other people get.

 

With all that said, if this were me, I would say, "Nope! Why are you asking?" Because I am genuinely curious about why she's asking.

 

i am a huge social clod and threads like these make me want to scurry furtively thru life with my head down and my mouth clamped shut lest some horrifyingly insensitive questions go flying out of my mouth due to sheer perversity.

 

like if you see someone with a pimple on his nose and you try and try and try not to notice it but then the first words out of your mouth are:

 

"Hey? How ZIT going?"

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My sil is the kind who gathers information then reports to my mil. She is nosy and rude, and if either dh or I asked her if she was expecting we would be put in our place right quick. She also knows I do not tell family about pregnancy until I am good and ready so for her to ask is nothing less than intrusive.

 

I've asked dh to tell her (if it comes up again) to butt out (those were my words, he will phrase it much nicer). I've had others ask me and have been nice, smiled, said either, "No" or "I was but I lost the baby." But my sil is not asking because she cares or because she doesn't want to inconvenience me - far from it! She is being rude and doing to me what she would not tolerate being done to her.

 

Ah! Ok, I get this. There's history here. It's not a friendly question in this context. Even social clods like me can understand this one.

 

In that case I suppose I'd go with, "if I was, you'd be the last to know." Ok, not really. But wouldn't that be fun?

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true story:

 

A close relative had to have emergency surgery because of testicular tortion. He was in the hospital b/c of complications. So my brother and I decide to send him a card. I bought the card and my brother wrote inside, " Dear Relative, Hang tough! Love Unsinkable's Brother and Unsinkable."

 

And mailed it.

 

And then smacked himself in the head.

 

And I have never let him live it down.

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Guest inoubliable

 

The only people we owe an explanation are those in authority over us (like a minor child/parent situation) or those we directly affect by withholding critical information (like the father of the baby.) She is neither. Asking for an explanation when you aren't owed one (especially as incessantly as the SIL in this situation seems to be asking) is big headed. People who see themselves a peers or subordinates (like a minor child) would not see themselves as entitled to an explanation. Western cultures are far more rigid about personal privacy boundaries, family autonomy and who has the right to ask what of extended relatives. Even an adult parent would have no right to ask an adult child about such things-especially after someone chose not to answer more than once like in the OP's situation.

 

Well thanks for the explanation.

 

 

Hmmm. Is it big headed of me that I got an explanation without demanding one? Or did the weird just get weirder? *snort, snort*

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Guest inoubliable

My sil is the kind who gathers information then reports to my mil. She is nosy and rude, and if either dh or I asked her if she was expecting we would be put in our place right quick. She also knows I do not tell family about pregnancy until I am good and ready so for her to ask is nothing less than intrusive.

 

I've asked dh to tell her (if it comes up again) to butt out (those were my words, he will phrase it much nicer). I've had others ask me and have been nice, smiled, said either, "No" or "I was but I lost the baby." But my sil is not asking because she cares or because she doesn't want to inconvenience me - far from it! She is being rude and doing to me what she would not tolerate being done to her.

 

She's asking in emails.

Why don't you just ignore it?? :confused1:

You have a whole lot more going on in your life than worrying over answering emails from people you think are rude.

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If your SIL is unkind and you don't like her, I'd stop reading her emails. Set your email program to send them to Junk Mail or delete them. If it's an emergency, you'll get a call from someone eventually. Ask your dh not to tell you about the stupid things she says and does. When you see her or talk to her, be civil and practice "pass the bean dip."

 

You have so many blessings in your life. I'd focus your energies on those positive things, and I'd just stop distracting yourself from the important people in your life. These kinds of silly things are not hurtful UNLESS you pay attention to them. THEN they hurt you by taking your energy away from positive things and by making you unhappy. Claim your power.

 

If you have to deal with her, then memorize one or two of the snappy comebacks others have suggested and zing it right out when you get the chance. If you choose wisely, it'll likely be the very last time you ever hear her ask about your pregnancy again.

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In that case I suppose I'd go with, "if I was, you'd be the last to know." Ok, not really. But wouldn't that be fun?
That would be fun. :)

 

She's asking in emails.

Why don't you just ignore it??

The emails she has sent to both dh and to me were regarding summer travel. The question about my being pg was thrown in there - hard to ignore. And it's happened 3...maybe 4...times recently. It's getting old.

 

"Why do you ask when you know that we always announce any viable pregnancies? Please stop asking. We will let you know if and when there is a need."
Ah, this is good - thank you. She knows my history loss so perhaps this would remind her that there is such a thing as a nonviable pregnancy, and she's treading on bad ground.
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Isn't it possible that she is asking in the context of what is ok to plan as a family activity/trip? My family meets up for various outings and trips over the summer which may or may not be compatible with pregnancy. For example in 2 weeks we are all going to a theme park with roller coasters when we go camping. If one of us was presently pregnant, we would be modifying the scheduled activities and going swimming instead.

 

If you don't do stuff with her over the summer and that is not the impetus for her asking, ignore me. It does sound like there is a history there. Stop giving her this power to upset you.

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Off topic, but

 

My family meets up for various outings and trips over the summer which may or may not be compatible with pregnancy. For example in 2 weeks we are all going to a theme park with roller coasters when we go camping. If one of us was presently pregnant, we would be modifying the scheduled activities and going swimming instead.

 

Are there really families that would do that? Cancel an entire theme park outing for *everyone* simply because one adult family member was pregnant? If I were the pregnant lady I'd feel terrible to be the source of so much loss-of-fun. (Yes, swimming is fun too, but really... I'd rather smile along with others enjoying a theme park day than have everyone do something else just to accommodate me.)

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Are there really families that would do that? Cancel an entire theme park outing for *everyone* simply because one adult family member was pregnant? If I were the pregnant lady I'd feel terrible to be the source of so much loss-of-fun. (Yes, swimming is fun too, but really... I'd rather smile along with others enjoying a theme park day than have everyone do something else just to accommodate me.)

 

 

Since I am miserable when pregnant, I couldn't imagine basing family outings around my condition. My preferred activities while expecting usually involved a couch, a bucket, dry crackers, and a water bottle. While out and about with family, I wanted everyone else to have fun.

 

OP, I think you've entered the "Eating Crackers" stage. Your SIL annoys you so much that anything she does bothers you. Even if her question was innocent, your past history with her doesn't allow you to see the inquiry that way. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Not every question in an email needs to be answered. Respond only if you or your DH want to. If asked in real life, reply as noted by PP, "we'll let you know."

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My sil is the kind who gathers information then reports to my mil. She is nosy and rude, and if either dh or I asked her if she was expecting we would be put in our place right quick. She also knows I do not tell family about pregnancy until I am good and ready so for her to ask is nothing less than intrusive.

 

I've asked dh to tell her (if it comes up again) to butt out (those were my words, he will phrase it much nicer). I've had others ask me and have been nice, smiled, said either, "No" or "I was but I lost the baby." But my sil is not asking because she cares or because she doesn't want to inconvenience me - far from it! She is being rude and doing to me what she would not tolerate being done to her.

 

If your SIL is nosy and rude to you, then stand up for yourself. Talk to her YOURSELF, IMMEDIATELY, or respond to her email IMMEDIATELY.

 

I don't agree with running to my husband to take care of HIS side of the family because then it looks like I can't take care of myself. And to me, that is not the way I want to be or view myself.

 

Now if your DH wants to say something on your behalf or HIS behalf, then he can do it IN ADDITION to you standing up for yourself.

 

I think I might be in the minority in this bc there are so many threads about DHs talking to his family and DWs talking to her family...but IMO, that seems to continue divisions of inlaws, outlaws, exlaws, etc.

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Guest inoubliable

 

The emails she has sent to both dh and to me were regarding summer travel. The question about my being pg was thrown in there - hard to ignore. And it's happened 3...maybe 4...times recently. It's getting old.

 

 

 

Re the bolded. Or not. You seem to be wanting to command some level of respect out of your SIL that you're just not going to get. Move on. Seriously. Own the fact that you're pregnant more often than not. If your SIL is being shitty about it, let her. You can't change your past, and your lifestyle doesn't look to be something you're going to change in the future. You can't change your SIL, either. If she emails you again, ignore the whole damn thing. It really is pretty easy. Set it up to go straight to your junk folder. Let your DH handle it. At this point, it looks like the bad history between you and SIL is going to prevent you from ever seeing her in any other light than what you see her in right now. So you can either avoid the question (ignore the emails and the IRL questions) or grow a thicker skin.

 

Best of luck to you.

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Guest inoubliable

If your SIL is nosy and rude to you, then stand up for yourself. Talk to her YOURSELF, IMMEDIATELY, or respond to her email IMMEDIATELY.

 

I don't agree with running to my husband to take care of HIS side of the family because then it looks like I can't take care of myself. And to me, that is not the way I want to be or view myself.

 

Now if your DH wants to say something on your behalf or HIS behalf, then he can do it IN ADDITION to you standing up for yourself.

 

I think I might be in the minority in this bc there are so many threads about DHs talking to his family and DWs talking to her family...but IMO, that seems to continue divisions of inlaws, outlaws, exlaws, etc.

 

Agree.

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Isn't it possible that she is asking in the context of what is ok to plan as a family activity/trip? My family meets up for various outings and trips over the summer which may or may not be compatible with pregnancy. For example in 2 weeks we are all going to a theme park with roller coasters when we go camping. If one of us was presently pregnant, we would be modifying the scheduled activities and going swimming instead.

 

If you don't do stuff with her over the summer and that is not the impetus for her asking, ignore me. It does sound like there is a history there. Stop giving her this power to upset you.

 

 

This is what I was thinking. The original poster's family size is thirteen, assuming the entire family participated in any summer outings. In planning family outings, a single group of 13 would significantly impact requirements for facilities, food and events.

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Off topic, but

 

 

 

Are there really families that would do that? Cancel an entire theme park outing for *everyone* simply because one adult family member was pregnant? If I were the pregnant lady I'd feel terrible to be the source of so much loss-of-fun. (Yes, swimming is fun too, but really... I'd rather smile along with others enjoying a theme park day than have everyone do something else just to accommodate me.)

 

 

I over simplified my example but yes, we plan around the limitations of anyone going. We wouldn't cancel a trip but we'd make it a trip with stuff that everyone could do. If we were going on a 5 day camping trip and someone couldn't go on a roller coaster or rock climbing we would factor that into the schedule of activities and plan lots of stuff that could include everyone. Some years we have spent 3+ of those days at the theme park. But the year when one person was pregnant and not able to spend all day walking around a hot park and my dad was recovering from surgery (mobile but not up for roller coasters or even walking all day)? We went just one day so that we still had lots of time for things we could all do. So that year we had more time for swimming, fishing and games. We didn't have any less fun.

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true story:

 

A close relative had to have emergency surgery because of testicular tortion. He was in the hospital b/c of complications. So my brother and I decide to send him a card. I bought the card and my brother wrote inside, " Dear Relative, Hang tough! Love Unsinkable's Brother and Unsinkable."

 

And mailed it.

 

And then smacked himself in the head.

 

And I have never let him live it down.

 

:smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5:

 

Love it!

 

I can understand your brother's angst, but that seriously tickled my funny bone.

 

Faith

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Well thanks for the explanation.

 

 

Hmmm. Is it big headed of me that I got an explanation without demanding one? Or did the weird just get weirder? *snort, snort*

 

No, there's nothing big headed at all about getting an explanation if the person giving the explanation initiated the discussion of private, personal matters and wanted you to know the details and genuinely wanted you to know why. What would be big headed is if you asked, she declined to answer, you asked again, and she decline to answer and you didn't let it go. Also some women struggle with boundaries so in the moment they'll give an explanation for the sake of avoiding the discomfort of enforcing a boundary when they didn't really want to give an explanation.

 

There are plenty of times someone who has lots of personal privacy boundaries does want to talk to a friend or relative about personal matters. That's perfectly fine if that person initiates it with the friend or relative. What is not acceptable to many people is if the friend, relative, acquaintance, or stranger initiates a conversation about someone else's private personal matters. Generally speaking, private personal matters can include things related to health issues, bodily functions, fertility, finances, interpersonal relationships, and that kind of thing. If you ask a general questions like, "How are you doing?" it gives people the opportunity to choose what types of information they're willing to cover. If you ask about something specific like "Are you pregnant again yet?" you may have just hit a topic they would not have chosen to discuss with you. If they say something evasive or choose not to answer let it go. If you push and continue to ask, don't be surprised if they have a very negative reaction to you-some people will.

 

If the OP posted that SIL asked, the OP declined to answer and the SIL let it go, then I would've said it was mildly annoying and socially awkward of her to ask but at least she let it go, so don't make an issue of it and forget it. It's the not letting it go that's really obnoxious and needs to be dealt with firmly whether it's motivated by genuine curiosity or by other negative things.

 

As pointed out, the way I read the OP this can't possibly about about scheduling the vacation around the large number of kids because the OP, as I read it, specifically told SIL she wasn't going on the vacation at all. The SIL can schedule according to her own preferences since she already knows the OP and her family won't be there.

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