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Phonics/spelling curriculum help for my 2nd grader!


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#1 daisylynn

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:18 PM

A little background. I have a current 3rd grader (daughter 8), and two boys both 1st grade (ages 5 and 7...the 5 year old can totally do the work.) My daughter (8) did Abeka phonics/spelling with great success through 2nd grade. This year she did Primary Language Lessons and Spelling Power. She is a great speller and reader.

My 5 year old is following the same path. He picks up very quickly and is already a great speller and reader. I have used Abeka with my boys as well from the beginning. I'm not concerned about him.

It's my 7 year old that I'm not sure what to do about for phonics/spelling. The charts with Abeka drive both of us nutty and are like torture to us. He struggles to read, write, and spell. He can do it, it just takes him much longer to put the word together than my other two. When he is focusing, he does better. But he loses focus and then will just call anything out when reading. I have to refocus him. While he has made amazing strides this year and I have definitely been able to see improvement, there are still days that it seems as if I never went over special sounds or the charts at all with him.

A part of me is worried to switch from Abeka since it has worked so well with the other two (and works I suppose with him...just slower). The other part of me is ready to try something different, something where he may do better.

I was thinking about AAS or Spelling by Sound and Structure. I really don't know anything much about either one. I've read a lot and they both seem to be pretty good. With our situation would you suggest staying with Abeka or switching to one of these (or to something completely different)? And with Abeka, the phonics and spelling both kind of wrapped in one. Is AAS and SSS that way? Would I just need the one thing to cover both phonics and spelling?

Thank you for any help/advice!
Tammy

#2 Clear Creek

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

Rod & Staff spelling (Spelling by Sound and Structure) does not have phonics lessons in it; they are in the Rod & Staff Phonics grade 2. I would highly recommend the pair (the spelling and the phonics); my middle child had a difficult time learning to read and spell, but R&S phonics is thorough and methodical enough that she came out the other end an excellent reader. Spelling was a struggle for her until halfway through her 2nd grade year when I started having her write the words in the air as she spelled them aloud every day...she is a very auditory and kinesthetic learner, so that cements the words in her mind in a way that reading and copying them does not.

If you do go with R&S phonics 2, don't be afraid to take it slow and skip the lessons on writing the dictionary pronunciation of the words...I don't find that important, especially for struggling students.

#3 Ellie

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

Spalding. :D

R&S's reading instruction has a significant sight-reading element, which is why I cannot recommend it even though I like most other R&S materials (including Spelling by Sound and Structure, 4th grade and up).

#4 Clear Creek

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

Spalding. :D

R&S's reading instruction has a significant sight-reading element, which is why I cannot recommend it even though I like most other R&S materials (including Spelling by Sound and Structure, 4th grade and up).


:confused1: I went back and read my post again, and I didn't mention R&S reading at all. I only mentioned the phonics program. I am so confused!

Well, in case I goofed and just can't see it, I intended to recommend the phonics program for grade 2 (along with the spelling). You can see in preview of the table of contents for the teacher's guide exactly what is taught. It is strictly phonics; no whole word/sight reading mumbo-jumbo, I promise. :)

#5 daisylynn

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:47 PM

:confused1: I went back and read my post again, and I didn't mention R&S reading at all. I only mentioned the phonics program. I am so confused!

Well, in case I goofed and just can't see it, I intended to recommend the phonics program for grade 2 (along with the spelling). You can see in preview of the table of contents for the teacher's guide exactly what is taught. It is strictly phonics; no whole word/sight reading mumbo-jumbo, I promise. :)



Thank you! Do you have a link to exactly what I would need for phonics/spelling for 2nd grade? I looked on their site, but couldn't seem to navigate it too well. And just to be clear, road and staff is who does Spelling by Sound and Structure? I had no idea and have no idea how I missed that:/ Is the two workbook set that is on MFW (where they recommend) the same thing? And all I would need?

Thank you!

#6 Clear Creek

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:24 PM

Thank you! Do you have a link to exactly what I would need for phonics/spelling for 2nd grade? I looked on their site, but couldn't seem to navigate it too well. And just to be clear, road and staff is who does Spelling by Sound and Structure? I had no idea and have no idea how I missed that:/ Is the two workbook set that is on MFW (where they recommend) the same thing? And all I would need?

Thank you!


Yes, it is the same two book set that MFW sells, and the only two components of the program. One is the student's workbook, and the other is the Teacher's Guide. Here is the spelling set on the Milestone Books website, where I buy all of my R&S materials; you can preview it there if you would like (it is also cheaper there...). For some reason they don't list the phonics program as a set, but here are the Teacher's Guide, workbook 1, workbook 2, and workbook 3.

#7 Ellie

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:55 PM

:confused1: I went back and read my post again, and I didn't mention R&S reading at all. I only mentioned the phonics program. I am so confused!

Well, in case I goofed and just can't see it, I intended to recommend the phonics program for grade 2 (along with the spelling). You can see in preview of the table of contents for the teacher's guide exactly what is taught. It is strictly phonics; no whole word/sight reading mumbo-jumbo, I promise. :)


But you did mention R&S's phonics:

Rod & Staff spelling (Spelling by Sound and Structure) does not have phonics lessons in it; they are in the Rod & Staff Phonics grade 2. I would highly recommend the pair (the spelling and the phonics); my middle child had a difficult time learning to read and spell, but R&S phonics is thorough and methodical enough that she came out the other end an excellent reader. Spelling was a struggle for her until halfway through her 2nd grade year when I started having her write the words in the air as she spelled them aloud every day...she is a very auditory and kinesthetic learner, so that cements the words in her mind in a way that reading and copying them does not.

If you do go with R&S phonics 2, don't be afraid to take it slow and skip the lessons on writing the dictionary pronunciation of the words...I don't find that important, especially for struggling students.


Many people don't understand that phonics and reading are two different things, which is why I said what I did, especially since R&S's teacher manuals include both phonics and reading in one manual.

#8 Clear Creek

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:16 PM

Many people don't understand that phonics and reading are two different things, which is why I said what I did, especially since R&S's teacher manuals include both phonics and reading in one manual.


That must be the confusion. You have been misinformed. Here is the reading teacher manual:




And here is the phonics teacher manual:



I am too lazy to take a photo of the copies I own so that you can see them in real life sitting next to each other. Perhaps you would like to stop by for coffee sometime? 001_smile.gif We could have a rowdy discussion about the merits of R&S reading. biggrin.gif

 

 



#9 Ellie

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:36 PM

I have not been misinformed, but thanks. :-)

The first grade reading and phonics is in one manual. So I was mistaken, but not misinformed. I quit using R&S for reading or phonics after using the first grade Bible Nurture and Reader materials in the little one-room, multi-grade school where I taught back in the early 90s. One of my little first graders plowed through, one was horribly beaten down. I decided that I would go back to Spalding, which is tricky to teach in a one-room, multi-grade school, but the results were so outstanding that I figured it was worth the effort to make it work.

I'm always up for being rowdy, though...

#10 MyLittleBears

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:23 AM

I would have his eyes checked by a developmental optometrist. Look for a fellow at COVD.org I held off for a long time in getting my ds' eyes checked because he tested at 20/20 at his regular exams. He has significant language based dyslexia, but he was also straining due to double vision. I did not realize how much harder he was working just to be able to see the words properly. Like your ds, he would loose his focus. His eyes would start to tear and he would rub them a lot. Your ds' eyes may be fine, but it would help to know if there is a problem that can be easily remedied.

#11 daisylynn

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:17 PM

Yes, it is the same two book set that MFW sells, and the only two components of the program. One is the student's workbook, and the other is the Teacher's Guide. Here is the spelling set on the Milestone Books website, where I buy all of my R&S materials; you can preview it there if you would like (it is also cheaper there...). For some reason they don't list the phonics program as a set, but here are the Teacher's Guide, workbook 1, workbook 2, and workbook 3.



THANK YOU!! I felt lost for a bit. Thanks so much for those links! So, I would need all 3 workbooks for 2nd grade? Is that correct? So that would make it the 2 books for spelling (teacher manual and student book) plus 4 books for phonics (teacher manual and 3 student books)? I want to make sure I have the right before I order:) Does MFW not carry their phonics? I looked but didn't see it. I haven't been able to find what MFW recommends for 2nd grade phonics. Does anyone know?

As with every year, the more research I do and the more I read, the more confused I get :/ Sorry!

Also, the reading that you posted...I wouldn't necessarily need that, would I?

And coming from Abeka, you think it is a good switch? I don't want to confuse him.

Thank you again!!

#12 daisylynn

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:18 PM

I would have his eyes checked by a developmental optometrist. Look for a fellow at COVD.org I held off for a long time in getting my ds' eyes checked because he tested at 20/20 at his regular exams. He has significant language based dyslexia, but he was also straining due to double vision. I did not realize how much harder he was working just to be able to see the words properly. Like your ds, he would loose his focus. His eyes would start to tear and he would rub them a lot. Your ds' eyes may be fine, but it would help to know if there is a problem that can be easily remedied.



I've never thought of this! He does rub his eyes and they tear up every now and then. It's not all the time. But he did say that sometimes he sees the words differently. Hmmm. I don't even know where to start with that. Thanks for this info!

#13 Clear Creek

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 02:17 PM

THANK YOU!! I felt lost for a bit. Thanks so much for those links! So, I would need all 3 workbooks for 2nd grade? Is that correct? So that would make it the 2 books for spelling (teacher manual and student book) plus 4 books for phonics (teacher manual and 3 student books)? I want to make sure I have the right before I order:) Does MFW not carry their phonics? I looked but didn't see it. I haven't been able to find what MFW recommends for 2nd grade phonics. Does anyone know?

As with every year, the more research I do and the more I read, the more confused I get :/ Sorry!

Also, the reading that you posted...I wouldn't necessarily need that, would I?

And coming from Abeka, you think it is a good switch? I don't want to confuse him.

Thank you again!!


Yes, you would need all three workbooks; R&S splits up the program into five units of 30 lessons each, so workbook one has unit 1, workbook two has units 2&3, and workbook three has units 4&5. For the phonics and spelling you have the correct books listed above. No, MFW does not carry R&S phonics, I believe they have their own product (I have never used MFW so I don't know for sure, and it is not clear on the website).

I would not recommend getting the R&S reading for him; there is a lot of unnecessary work in the 2nd grade reading program. Just have him practice reading aloud every day at a challenging (but not overly difficult) level from whatever books you have or that he likes.

I think it would be a good switch from Abeka to R&S for him. I have never taught with Abeka, but I was taught with it from K-6th grade many, many moons ago ( :D ) and I remember the reading charts. R&S teaches the same content, but with a different approach. I think that for some children the charts can be difficult because it is a constant jump from one rule to another, with no connection between words - or at least it was difficult for me, and I was a good reader! R&S doesn't have charts, but the rules are reviewed and used in context often enough that the child should remember them.

#14 daisylynn

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:00 PM

Yes, you would need all three workbooks; R&S splits up the program into five units of 30 lessons each, so workbook one has unit 1, workbook two has units 2&3, and workbook three has units 4&5. For the phonics and spelling you have the correct books listed above. No, MFW does not carry R&S phonics, I believe they have their own product (I have never used MFW so I don't know for sure, and it is not clear on the website).

I would not recommend getting the R&S reading for him; there is a lot of unnecessary work in the 2nd grade reading program. Just have him practice reading aloud every day at a challenging (but not overly difficult) level from whatever books you have or that he likes.

I think it would be a good switch from Abeka to R&S for him. I have never taught with Abeka, but I was taught with it from K-6th grade many, many moons ago ( :D ) and I remember the reading charts. R&S teaches the same content, but with a different approach. I think that for some children the charts can be difficult because it is a constant jump from one rule to another, with no connection between words - or at least it was difficult for me, and I was a good reader! R&S doesn't have charts, but the rules are reviewed and used in context often enough that the child should remember them.



Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this!! I have been struggling and praying over what to do and FINALLY have peace about it. We'll definitely go with R&S! Thanks for answering all of my MANY questions!:)

#15 daisylynn

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:03 PM

Sorry, ONE more question. With the spelling, do I need to order two complete sets since I have two kids doing this? I didn't see where I could order just the workbook separately, but don't need two teacher's manuals.

#16 Clear Creek

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:50 PM

Here ya go, just the spelling workbook. :001_smile:

#17 Ellie

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

Sorry, ONE more question. With the spelling, do I need to order two complete sets since I have two kids doing this? I didn't see where I could order just the workbook separately, but don't need two teacher's manuals.


You could just call the publisher and order what you need: (616) 522-4348.

#18 raceNzanesmom

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:31 AM

I've never thought of this! He does rub his eyes and they tear up every now and then. It's not all the time. But he did say that sometimes he sees the words differently. Hmmm. I don't even know where to start with that. Thanks for this info!


www.covd.org will tell you.

#19 daisylynn

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:42 AM

Thanks! I don't know why I couldn't find that!

Thanks Angie!


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