Does studying history ever make you question your faith?

[Moxie]

I'm not trying to start any kind of fights but I really have no one else to talk to about this. When reading history, and learning about all the different religious beliefs people have held, does it cause you to question your own faith? After all, the Romans believed in their gods pretty strongly and we (all?) now know they were wrong. I could just as easily be wrong, kwim??

[albeto]

It played into my deconversion, sure. When I'd read the early church fathers, men I thought were rather unanimous in their Catholic theology, quoted by Mormons to support their theology, it gave me pause. These theologies are really not compatible. I mean, it's either one version or the other, kwim? What I eventually learned is that there was never a "one theology" that everyone agreed to. There were lots and lots of ideas of various similarities, some quite similar, others quite incongruent (free-will v. predestination). They were all lumped together in the Christian bible (different between Catholic, Protestant, and various Othodox sects), but they really weren't unified.

 

The other thing was in seeing good and virtuous Christians defend things we today consider anything but good and virtuous. If the holy spirit couldn't correct them then, how did I expect it to correct us now? Unless, like you say, the Christian god(s) were no different than the Greek gods. I've learned enough history now to seriously question the existence of Jesus at all. I think a more persuasive argument is that his character became solidified over centuries, fine tuned into the "person" we think of today.

 

So, yeah, knowledge of history can be damaging to faith.

 

Why do you think the bible encourages faith over reason (trust not in thine own understanding, etc, etc)?

[Erin]

Never made a difference to me and I'm a history buff.

 

Though I will say, church history did really convince me of the importance of personal faith over liturgical ceremonies...

[Celia]

It's gone different ways for me at times. My beliefs aren't mainstream, as far as Christianity goes. For example, I don't believe in the trinity, and believe that Jesus will personally return to the earth and set up his millennial Kingdom. When I first started coming to these conclusions via Bible study, history did cause me to questions my conclusions. I felt like how could I believe something people so much smarter than I disagreed with? But as I studied more deeply, I found that actually there were several who came to the same conclusions along the way. And that my belief in the millennial reign of Christ was actually widely held for quite some time. Likewise with learning about Bible prophesy. I would find quotes of people predicting events to do with the nations that were based on Bible prophesy that would have been considered completely absurd at the time. So as I've come along these quotes I write them down, and it actually has become very strengthening to my faith.

[Mergath]

All of that certainly affected my decision to reject Christianity as a teen. When you look at how every world religion has the bulk of its adherents in one specific region, it makes it easier to see that there isn't one "true" religion. And studying history and knowing how much all the major religions have been edited and reinterpreted by man also makes things more clear. And scientific history certainly played a part, as well. I probably would have left the religion anyway because I abhor many of their social teachings, but all that definitely gave me a good nudge.

[Anne in CA]

This does remind me of when my son was 5 and he was listening to his older sister's Sonlight history lessons. One day at bedtime he asked my dh, "If the ancient Aztecs believed in 300,000 gods, and other people had other gods besides that, how do we know that our god is the right one?" Dh answered, "Because when asked him, God forgave my sins." That was good enough for ds when he was 5, lol. But everyone is different. I don't believe in God due to blind faith, my faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. I have substance and evidence, and I don't have to believe all current theology of the Christian church to know that it would be unscientific of me to ignore that God has directed me to this path pretty clearly.

[TracyP]

Studying history has been a road bump (one of many) on my path. This is a really tricky topic, IMO. I was at bible study a year or so ago. We were discussing false gods in the bible. Someone asked, "Didn't they realize that when they prayed and nothing happened that their gods weren't real?" Everyone nodded and went into a "those stupid ancients" diatribe. I just thought, "No, sometimes their prayers would be answered (coincidentally) and they would thank their god/s. Other times their prayer wouldn't be answered, and they would wonder what they did wrong or would assume that it wasn't the wish of the gods to grant that prayer." It was a surreal moment for me.

[Kim in Appalachia]

This is a complex topic. I would say for me, studying history strengthend my faith (where as there are other things that have thrown major bumps). Seeing where ancient religions have things in common and where they differ is fasinating and, I think, gives greater reason for faith. I am a person who tends to see and/or look for patterns and looking at the ancient beliefs is amazing. I'm not as impressed with the more modern religious views. Everything since the Enlightenment is much more human centered.

 

I wish I could better explain it, but I feel like it complex and I can't write it down, though if I had your ear I could talk for a while on the topic. :) But some things are vague and hard for me to articulate.

[Ellie]

I'm not trying to start any kind of fights but I really have no one else to talk to about this. When reading history, and learning about all the different religious beliefs people have held, does it cause you to question your own faith? After all, the Romans believed in their gods pretty strongly and we (all?) now know they were wrong. I could just as easily be wrong, kwim??

 

No. Never. Really. :-)

[MIch elle]

YES! And I consider it a GOOD thing. I'm learning to love my faith not because of what I learned as a child but what I know for me today. I can thank Marcus Borg, John D. Crossan and other progressive Christians for helping me along on my faith journey.

 

"I have more peace than I've ever had in my life. I'm more secure, even though I'm filled with more questions. I'm more at ease with my relationship with God.. .I'm not ashamed and I'm not afraid. What a blessing that is." Yvette Flunder

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXtE7zmN5MM

[KungFuPanda]

Nope. That's what SCIENCE is for. 😈

[milovany]

Though I will say, church history did really convince me of the importance of personal faith over liturgical ceremonies...

 

 

Interesting! I had the opposite experience. Studying church history from a non-western point of view made me turn to and lean into liturgy and Holy Tradition, and to let go of my individualistic faith.

[Pawz4me]

Studying history and the politics (from Constantine forward) that were involved in shaping Christianity as we know it today turned me away from organized religion.

[texasmama]

No, it has not. It did make clear (even more so) that had I been born in a different country or a different time period, I would likely have believed differently, but it did not make me question my Christianity. I very much understand why the Greeks, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc. have had historically and still have their beliefs. It just doesn't change mine.

[Onceuponatime]

Yes. History and Science, plus the curse of my obsessive need to feel like I'm doing the right thing, which leads to my constant questioning of my own conclusions, which leads to hours of reading and research, which I love. So it's not all that bad.

[Cricket]

Not seriously question. I also wondered at some point how do I know Christianity is true when all civilizations have believed in different gods. The more I learn about other faiths, the more I realize Christianity is the most logical to me. It answers all my questions and even some questions I never thought of asking.

[Wheres Toto]

Yes, especially learning about the similarities between Christian stories and those of other religions. Creation stories, savior stories, flood stories, etc. not much in the Bible is unique or original. That and the politics behind it all.

[Susan in TN]

Interesting! I had the opposite experience. Studying church history from a non-western point of view made me turn to and lean into liturgy and Holy Tradition, and to let go of my individualistic faith.

Yep. I find myself more and more grateful for the faith I have been given.

[MamaSheep]

I have found that the more I study history and science, as well as other religious traditions, the more my faith deepens. I think it has helped me develop a more profound understanding of, and a greater appreciation for, both the details and the bigger picture of my religion.

[Veritaserum]

Yes. Specifically it was studying the history of my denomination, which claims to be the One True Church with the Fullness of the Gospel (other religions are taught to have only parts of the Truth). What I read contradicted the happy, wart-free narrative presented in church lessons. I could no longer trust the church as a source of truth since it had been untruthful to me about its past and origins.

 

I still consider myself to be Christian, but I am a liberal one who does not subscribe to a detailed list of rules.

[Seasider]

Hmmm... Not question my faith (ie, belief), as in doubt it. But to ask questions of my faith practices, and the traditions that have been added along the way? Yes. And I think that's okay. I believe the truth can stand up to scrutiny.

[PrincessMommy]

In a nutshell--- As a Christian - no it didn't make me question my faith in God... but it did seriously effect my faith in Protestantism. I found Eastern Orthodoxy through my studies in church history, and this has strengthened my love for God and greatly enriched my relationship with His Son.

[Chris in VA]

This is my opinion (not only mine, but mine own)--you can mess with an awful lot of Christian tradition and biblical content, but I have as yet to find a completely convincing refutation of the Resurrection. All the historical research, debate and arguing over this way and that way cannot take away my belief in what I see as the Cornerstone of my faith.

[raceNzanesmom]

No. They more I study history (and science) the more deeply I believe.

[justamouse]

No, OP, actually, the more I read about history, the more I believe. And, the more I read about science the more I believe.

 

Never made a difference to me and I'm a history buff.

 

Though I will say, church history did really convince me of the importance of personal faith over liturgical ceremonies...

 

Everyone is so different, through reading history my family actually became more liturgical. The more I read, the more I realized that my problems were with Protestant theology, not Christianity.

[TracyP]

No. They more I study history (and science) the more deeply I believe.

No, OP, actually, the more I read about history, the more I believe. And, the more I read about science the more I believe.

Could either of you expand on this? What type of history (or science) study caused your faith to deepen? I ask as someone who is struggling with her faith. The more I learn about history - ancient history w/ its similarities, other religions who honestly, wholeheartedly believe they are right, and the atrocities committed in the name of Yahweh/God/Allah - the harder it is for me to understand/believe. Science hasn't made me stop believing. But honestly, it has given me an alternative.

[Marianne in TX]

I don't know how to answer that directly. I have fallen in love with history, mythology, and literature in an angsty kind of way. These subjects paint a beautiful and heartbreaking picture of what it means to be human. But I'am also holding on to my faith without conflict. Tension maybe. The tension between faith and reason I suppose. But I hold on tightly to both. I did convert to Eastern Orthodoxy about 10 years ago.

[Joanne]

I'm not trying to start any kind of fights but I really have no one else to talk to about this. When reading history, and learning about all the different religious beliefs people have held, does it cause you to question your own faith? After all, the Romans believed in their gods pretty strongly and we (all?) now know they were wrong. I could just as easily be wrong, kwim??

 

Yes. It was one of the many factors that were part of my separation from exclusive spirituality. Including earth religions that vehemently deny the Jesus part of Christianity.

 

I don't disbelieve. In fact, my spiritual paradigm leans more towards believing ALL of it than not believing. But adherents typically tell me I can't believe that way.

 

Makes most people of faith twitchy. Made one AA member carry a resentment from yesterday's noon meeting to today's (I am on vacation, and she apparently didn't like what I shared in my experience, strength and hope.)

[BakersDozen]

My faith has actually been strengthened after studying history with my children. However, my faith in religion/"church" is much changed. Sometimes what we read/learned about made me so angry I was in tears.

[speedmom4]

I am reading the book Christianity, the First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid MacCulloch. It is fascinating. It is helping me to see that faith and religion are complicated. Sometimes it doesn't necessarily make sense to our 21st century minds. I recently reverted to Catholicism and I am finding that my study of Christianity and the ancientness of the faith go hand in hand. People have done terrible things in the name of God. That doesn't mean God isn't real. I think it's important to know God for yourself, study the Scriptures, and learn Church teachings. I love reading the ancient Church Fathers. They have so much insight and help me to see that Christianity is so much older and deeper than I ever knew.

 

I'm rambling! I'm sorry. This is something I have been thinking a lot about recently.

 

God bless you on your journey!

 

Elise in NC

[chiguirre]

I'm not trying to start any kind of fights but I really have no one else to talk to about this. When reading history, and learning about all the different religious beliefs people have held, does it cause you to question your own faith? After all, the Romans believed in their gods pretty strongly and we (all?) now know they were wrong. I could just as easily be wrong, kwim??

 

Yes, I got interested in ancient history in junior high and had this experience.

[Slartibartfast]

Not at all, I have loved history my entire life. It has never given me cause to question my faith.

 

Other people today worship differently than I do, many believe much different things than I, that doesn't affect me. I am friends with people of many faiths, them believing something different does not challenge my beliefs.

[gardenmom5]

growing up with parents who orginally attended a mainline protestant church, then switched to a liberal quasi church (even for that particular denomination - they were *VERY* liberal), a grandmother who used religion as a weapon (helped me understand why people would want nothing to do with religion),

and visiting different churches and doing my own search for a religion I could feel good about -

 

I have never questioned my current faith of 33+ years. not even reading and studying about all the different cultures and their different belief systems.

[Orthodox6]

Studying history is incontrovertibly why I hold staunchly to my present faith. The historical record made completely clear where I would find truth.

[Chris in VA]

Elise, I am reading that book, too. Though I disagree with some of the "spin" , I think it is an awesome book! I am preparing for a year-long discussion of it during EfM.:-)

[El...]

I don't think I have the knowledge of history to really answer your question. However, I am a Christian, and I am reading SWB's history of the world series now and have had a few similar thoughts, so here is one that occurred to me... disregard if it doesn't make sense to you. In the first book, she mentions a stele (sp?) on which a minor king titled himself "good shepherd". That overlap surprised me! (Psalm 23, Isaiah, etc.) I guess I didn't realize how much the Bible is a book written in a time. However, there is a big difference between what that king meant by "good shepherd" and what the Christian Bible means, as a whole, by Good Shepherd. When David called God his shepherd, he embraced God in a deeply loving relationship. When Jesus called Himself The Good Shepherd "who lays down his life for the sheep" He turned leadership and kingship upside down. That ancient king meant he was the undisputed dominator of several tribes; David meant that God loved him and provided for him; according to Christianity, Jesus meant that he was going to throw himself, the personal expression of God's heart, into the breach to rescue all tribes and nations. Christianity, when I read the Bible as a whole, expresses a God who seeks an eternal relationship with every person. That is helping me when I see horror and stupidity in history.

[MFG]

Not really, but I strive to avoid an overly romantic view of history. Church history in particular.

[DianeW88]

Yes, to a certain degree. I left the church in which I was raised and converted to another. But delving more deeply into history was certainly not the main reason for changing churches. It was more like it supported my decision rather than caused it.

[speedmom4]

Elise, I am reading that book, too. Though I disagree with some of the "spin" , I think it is an awesome book! I am preparing for a year-long discussion of it during EfM.:-)

 

I'm finding the book interesting but difficult. This is my first time studying Church history on an adult level and I can't seem to keep everything straight. It is definitely something I will have to read over again.

 

What is EfM?

[Aspasia]

I lost my faith over other issues, but studying history helped me rebuild my own worldview, if that makes sense. The religion I was raised with is complex and has explanations for almost everything, so when I left it, I had to slowly restructure my worldview. Reading about history helped confirm my agnostic leanings--with all the different ways people have used gods to explain natural phenomena and to comfort themselves when hard things happen, it just seems awfully arrogant, and maybe a little foolish, to think that now--NOW--we have the actual "truth".

 

However, I don't think it's fair to any modern church to abandon it because of its history. Every group, every organization, every country has some atrocities in its past, or at least some actions or positions that offend modern sensibilities. That doesn't make the modern version unworthy of our time and efforts. I think a lot of churches today do a lot of good, regardless of whatever violent or crazy stuff happened hundreds of years ago at the hands of people who happened to have similar beliefs.

 

I find value in religion. I just don't find any legitimate, exclusive claims to "truth" in any of them.

[DawnM]

No, but it made my faith stronger. It may also be in part because I grew up studying other religions and it was no mystery or new information for me as an adult.

[windmillmarie]

I am in the middle of this right now. It's actually been a good thing for me, I think, because it's forcing me to examine what and why I believe what I do. It also helps me understand my DH, who I'd probably classify as agnostic right now (capital A or not on that?)

 

I think it's okay to always be evolving and changing and thinking on these things. It gives perspective, especially if the history is written by someone other than the dead white male victors, so to speak.

[Liz CA]

Why do you think the bible encourages faith over reason (trust not in thine own understanding, etc, etc)?

 

 

I don't consider myself a bible expert because I too have many questions.

I always did think that the passage about "don't lean on your understanding..." refers to events out of our control.

In other passages, people are encouraged to seek wisdom "my people will perish for lack of wisdom."

[Lady Florida.]

No, but I looked at history when I was questioning my faith.

[Shahrazad]

Nope. As others said, the more I study history and science, the stronger my faith becomes and the more I believe.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Interesting discussion! Loving to see where you ladies are coming from.

 

To answer, no, studying history hasn't made me question. Other things in life have made me question along the way, but in the end I come back strengthened and reaffirmed in my beliefs. Questioning solidifies and helps me to sort out proof of what I already "knew." BUT, I'll admit to having somewhat of a skewed view in that I've had enough first-hand supernatural encounters with God that for me not to believe would be foolish.

[justamouse]

I am reading the book Christianity, the First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid MacCulloch. It is fascinating. It is helping me to see that faith and religion are complicated. Sometimes it doesn't necessarily make sense to our 21st century minds. I recently reverted to Catholicism and I am finding that my study of Christianity and the ancientness of the faith go hand in hand. People have done terrible things in the name of God. That doesn't mean God isn't real. I think it's important to know God for yourself, study the Scriptures, and learn Church teachings. I love reading the ancient Church Fathers. They have so much insight and help me to see that Christianity is so much older and deeper than I ever knew.

 

I'm rambling! I'm sorry. This is something I have been thinking a lot about recently.

 

God bless you on your journey!

 

Elise in NC

Could either of you expand on this? What type of history (or science) study caused your faith to deepen? I ask as someone who is struggling with her faith. The more I learn about history - ancient history w/ its similarities, other religions who honestly, wholeheartedly believe they are right, and the atrocities committed in the name of Yahweh/God/Allah - the harder it is for me to understand/believe. Science hasn't made me stop believing. But honestly, it has given me an alternative.

 

Pretty much exactly what Elise said. Man will *always* be flawed. Always. We will always do horrible things in the name of good. But that doesn't mean God isn't God, and, if anything, seeing how much we are flawed makes me ever so grateful we have a God that loves us anyway, and that we can still seek holiness though our relationship with Him.

[TravelingChris]

No, as some others have said, if anything, it has helped my faith. Oh, and I moved from Catholicism to Protestantism. Both science and history have that effect on me along with other subjects too. Math, for example, seems to me to be God;s special language for us.

[LibraryLover]

When I was a little girl I loved going to church. I loved the ritual, music etc. One Sunday- I couldn't have been more than 7 or 8- I remember thinking, 'This doesn't make any sense." I still enjoyed church, I still liked some of the stories, but I didn't believe. I didn't feel sad, and I went to church for many more years.

I do enjoy learning about history, but it wasn't studying history that made me question.

[Celia]

Elise, I am reading that book, too. Though I disagree with some of the "spin" , I think it is an awesome book! I am preparing for a year-long discussion of it during EfM.:-)

He's also done a great documentary: A History of Christianity. It's a 6 DVD series. I actually have it rented from the library at the moment. :)