high school leve work done in 8th grade on transcript??

[cindylee]

If your child took some high school level courses in 8th grade how do you show that on transcript. Not all of her 8th grade work was high school level but her math and science were. Do you just have an 8th grade column or do you do it just by subject to not have confusion? Just making sure.Cindy Lee

[regentrude]

I list them before the 9th grade courses in the respective subject category, with a note "Course taken prior to 9th grade. Not counted for GPA and number of credits".

[creekland]

We put them on the side with a similar explanation as Regentrude used.

[EKS]

I have been arranging the transcript by subject rather than year. The pre-9th grade coursework has an asterisk with a note that the courses were high school level courses taken prior to the 2011-2012 school year.

[cindylee]

I list them before the 9th grade courses in the respective subject category, with a note "Course taken prior to 9th grade. Not counted for GPA and number of credits".

I would like to count the credit and grade though since it is high school math....algebra 1 .....can I not do that?

[creekland]

I would like to count the credit and grade though since it is high school math....algebra 1 .....can I not do that?

 

Few colleges will let you do it even if you try. At the public high school where I work, no course taken before 9th grade counts for credit even if it's the exact same course we have upperclassmen taking...

 

Oldest wasn't able to count Alg 1 or Alg 2. Middle couldn't count Alg 1 or Geom (or World History). Youngest can't count Alg 1.

 

BUT, there probably are some colleges where it's ok. Check with them while there's still time to add another math credit if they say no.

 

FWIW, Alg 1 is considered a middle school class for average students at our high school... I THINK that's rather common across the US in 2013. It was NOT common when I was in high school.

[swimmermom3]

I list them before the 9th grade courses in the respective subject category, with a note "Course taken prior to 9th grade. Not counted for GPA and number of credits".

 

I have been arranging the transcript by subject rather than year. The pre-9th grade coursework has an asterisk with a note that the courses were high school level courses taken prior to the 2011-2012 school year.

 

:blushing: I would never have thought to include them in a transcript. Ds did that work in muddle school, not high school. I always thought that the intelligent life form on the receiving end of my paperwork would figure out that if ds's math credits showed that he took Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus, that he had taken Algebra I prior to high school.

 

OP, I truly mean no disrespect and am curious as to the reasoning. I would love to include ds's impressive 8th grade reading list, but well, that was middle school.

[Julie in MN]

I've never heard of credit being given. You could rename your 8th grader as a high schooler; otherwise, they are not a high schooler.

 

My oldest public schooled son took Algebra 1 and 2 during 8th grade, and neither was on his high school transcript. For the most part, it's obvious if the student takes a more advanced course in high school, that he's had the earlier courses before. I do believe my son's junior high transcript was included separately or on the back when his transcript was sent out by the public schools, so that's another possibility.

 

Julie

[creekland]

:blushing: I would never have thought to include them in a transcript. Ds did that work in muddle school, not high school. I always thought that the intelligent life form on the receiving end of my paperwork would figure out that if ds's math credits showed that he took Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus, that he had taken Algebra I prior to high school.

 

OP, I truly mean no disrespect and am curious as to the reasoning. I would love to include ds's impressive 8th grade reading list, but well, that was middle school.

 

With Alg1, it is usually a no-brainer and can be left off. With subjects like Bio, World History, and Geometry it can be worthwhile to list them so colleges don't think those subjects were skipped (gaps in the education).

 

FTR, I'm only talking about high school level credits taken in middle school, not middle school versions of the same topic.

[Jane in NC]

I would like to count the credit and grade though since it is high school math....algebra 1 .....can I not do that?

 

My standard answer to questions on this board these days is "It depends..."

 

My son did Algebra I in 8th also. I did not include this on his transcript because he also had credits for Geometry, Algebra II/Trig, Precalculus, and Calculus. This is not an unusual path these days although some kids substitute Statistics for Calc. With this scenario, Algebra I is assumed as prereq--no reason to list it.

 

Here is another case where you may want to ask the college. Some schools do not want to see courses taken before high school on the transcript. But in my state (NC) where high school students applying to the state university system must have four math credits (Alg I, Geometry, Alg II, and a course beyond Alg II) it is not unusual to include this course from 8th grade on the transcript.

 

Perhaps you should take a look at the admissions page of one of your state unis to see what is typically done in your area.

 

Jane

[EKS]

:blushing: I would never have thought to include them in a transcript. Ds did that work in muddle school, not high school. I always thought that the intelligent life form on the receiving end of my paperwork would figure out that if ds's math credits showed that he took Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus, that he had taken Algebra I prior to high school.

 

OP, I truly mean no disrespect and am curious as to the reasoning. I would love to include ds's impressive 8th grade reading list, but well, that was middle school.

 

 

Some schools require certain courses that my son took prior to high school--Algebra I, geometry, Algebra II, and American history are the ones I can think of right now.

[Cosmos]

I would never have thought to include them in a transcript. Ds did that work in muddle school, not high school.

 

 

Just stepping in for a giggle here at "muddle school" :lol:

 

I know it was a typo, but "muddle school" is exactly what it feels like to me sometimes. We're trying to muddle our way to having an independent, organized, focused student ready for high school.

[snowbeltmom]

I've never heard of credit being given. You could rename your 8th grader as a high schooler; otherwise, they are not a high schooler.

 

This is another situation that varies depending on the state. My public school awards credit for geometry and foreign language taken in middle school. These courses are listed on the high school transcript and the grades received in these courses are included in the high school gpa.

 

A friend of mine recently moved to another state (her kids are in public school), and that state has the exact same policy as my state.

[Robin in DFW]

My standard answer to questions on this board these days is "It depends..."

 

My son did Algebra I in 8th also. I did not include this on his transcript because he also had credits for Geometry, Algebra II/Trig, Precalculus, and Calculus. This is not an unusual path these days although some kids substitute Statistics for Calc. With this scenario, Algebra I is assumed as prereq--no reason to list it.

 

Here is another case where you may want to ask the college. Some schools do not want to see courses taken before high school on the transcript. But in my state (NC) where high school students applying to the state university system must have four math credits (Alg I, Geometry, Alg II, and a course beyond Alg II) it is not unusual to include this course from 8th grade on the transcript.

 

Perhaps you should take a look at the admissions page of one of your state unis to see what is typically done in your area.

 

Jane

 

 

 

This was the case for my oldest. She attended ps through graduation. She took a couple of classes in 8th grade that were mandatory for high school graduation (Algebra 1 being one of them). I believe in our state, the requirements are to have 4 credits of math, Algebra 1 being one of those. My dd24 ended up taking Geometry, Algebra 2 and Pre Calculus during her high school years and opted out of math her senior year because she already had 4 years of math, according to the rules at that time.

 

I also know families whose students have taken math, IPC, foreign language and histories in middle school and they count for high school because these students end up with insane amounts of credits on their transcripts.

 

Maybe it depends on the school district and how they choose to list? or the state?

 

I also say "it depends".

 

Robin

 

 

[8filltheheart]

This is another situation that varies depending on the state. My public school awards credit for geometry and foreign language taken in middle school. These courses are listed on the high school transcript and the grades received in these courses are included in the high school gpa.

 

A friend of mine recently moved to another state (her kids are in public school), and that state has the exact same policy as my state.

 

 

I agree. At least 2 of the states we have lived in grant credit for high school courses taken in middle school. In one state, it was not uncommon for students to start high school in Spanish 3 and geo with credit for alg and Spanish 1 and 2 on their transcripts from middle school.

 

FWIW, I do include the courses on my kids' transcripts. If a university wants to evaluate the transcript w/o including those courses, they can, but the courses are included on what I submit. I categorize by subject, not grade, going down the left hand column and have 4 columns going across the page: <=8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th. All courses completed prior to 9th are simply indicated that the <=8th column. I do give grades and count the credits. :)

[Nscribe]

In our area, only math and foreign languages taken prior to 9th grade may be counted toward high school.

[creekland]

Our high school made the switch to not counting credits since I've been here, so sometime in the last 10 years or so (I've been here 14). We also don't offer foreign language before 9th grade, so I've no idea what they would do with that.

 

However, it's colleges that really matter (IMO). As homeschoolers we can do whatever we like on a transcript for high school. ;)

 

My suggestion (if heading to college) is to check with colleges the student is interested in and see if they will count anything prior to 9th grade as credit and to do this when there's still enough time to add more credit if necessary. The reason I was given for our switch (high school switch) is because colleges didn't want credits from then and this made it easier for high schoolers not to "mess up" credit-wise. Most of our students stay within 4 hours of us, so it could very well be regional.

[regentrude]

:blushing: I would never have thought to include them in a transcript....

OP, I truly mean no disrespect and am curious as to the reasoning. I would love to include ds's impressive 8th grade reading list, but well, that was middle school.

 

 

I have heard that some colleges explicitly want to see algebra 1 on the transcript, even if it is obvious from the course progression that the student must have taken it at some point. So, I put algebra 1 so they can check that box. She still has more than the required four math credits for high school.

 

I have also heard that some colleges require biology to be one of the high school sciences. DD took biology before 9th, so I put it on for them to be able to check that box as well. She still has more than the four required science credits in high school, but there is an abundance of physics, and bio is conspicuously absent.

ETA: I will leave it off if DD decides to revisit bio her senior year.

[swimmermom3]

 

I agree. At least 2 of the states we have lived in grant credit for high school courses taken in middle school. In one state, it was not uncommon for students to start high school in Spanish 3 and geo with credit for alg and Spanish 1 and 2 on their transcripts from middle school.

 

FWIW, I do include the courses on my kids' transcripts. If a university wants to evaluate the transcript, they can, but they are included on what I submit. I categorize by subject, not grade, going down the left hand column and have 4 columns going across the page: <=8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th. All courses completed prior to 9th are simply indicated that the <=8th column. I do give grades and count the credits. :)

 

 

Making a note, drawing a visual and putting it in the transcript binder. Thank you.

[8filltheheart]

Making a note, drawing a visual and putting it in the transcript binder. Thank you.

 

 

Nothing like having a post quoted for realizing just how incoherent a post is!! (so i did go back and make corrections to make it clearer!)

 

FWIW, Lisa, my ds's transcripts that we will be sending in with his applications in the fall has multiple math and science credits as well a foreign lang. My rising 9th grader will have multiple foreign lang and 2 math credits. I also include a small column between the course titles and the grade level columns with abbreviations (given in a key) to indicate where outsourced courses are taken (for example, AoPS, PAH (for PA Homeschoolers), and university acronyms. I also have a box on the front for test scores, grading scale (I do not weight any grades), etc. Under the courses, I also have a box for major accomplishments (like a science competition where he won an honorable mention out of several thousand entrants and his summer camp attendances.)

 

I try to make the single page give a solid overview of who the student is and what they have accomplished in a single glance. (I want them to see the big picture and not just glance at the test scores. For example, having 9.5 math credits on his transcript for college applications (including the one he will be taking fall semester) gives a far better representation of who he is than just test scores.)

 

I do not include English/history from middle school (though dd definitely could have counted the last 2 yrs worth of lit high school level courses since she read things like Paradise Lost that many high schoolers don't even read.)

[swimmermom3]

 

Nothing like having a post quoted for realizing just how incoherent a post is!! (so i did go back and make corrections to make it clearer!)

 

FWIW, Lisa, my ds's transcripts that we will be sending in with his applications in the fall has multiple math and science credits as well a foreign lang. My rising 9th grader will have multiple foreign lang and 2 math credits. I also include a small column between the course titles and the grade level columns with abbreviations (given in a key) to indicate where outsourced courses are taken (for example, AoPS, PAH (for PA Homeschoolers), and university acronyms. I also have a box on the front for test scores, grading scale (I do not weight any grades), etc. Under the courses, I also have a box for major accomplishments (like a science competition where he won an honorable mention out of several thousand entrants and his summer camp attendances.)

 

I try to make the single page give a solid overview of who the student is and what they have accomplished in a single glance. (I want them to see the big picture and not just glance at the test scores. For example, having 9.5 math credits on his transcript for college applications (including the one he will be taking fall semester) gives a far better representation of who he is than just test scores.)

 

I do not include English/history from middle school (though dd definitely could have counted the last 2 yrs worth of lit high school level courses since she read things like Paradise Lost that many high schoolers don't even read.)

 

Eight, thanks so much for elaborating and I really do appreciate the time it took to do so. It's very helpful. Our state does not count any work done prior to high school unless you are in a special program. For example the woman I spoke to at the Department of Education this morning, has 6th grader who is taking Algebra II and an AP course. Those will count because he is part of the TAG program. He is completing middle school and high school at the same time. Now my average son can't count Algebra I from middle school, but that choice does commit him to at least completing Pre-Calculus because he must have three years of math to graduate.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think there is anything that would prevent me from listing high level courses taken in 8th grade (in the sense that there are no state rules here for what is required of homeschoolers for graduation). But I have to ask what the point would be. I understand listing something like Algebra 1 or German 1. I even get why Regentrude lists biology. But even though my 8th grade son has done all the same coursework as his 9th grade brother, I don't plan to list the literature, history or science done before high school. These are subjects that I will still expect him to take 4 years worth of in his own college time. They are also less quantifiable as to being high school level. Algebra and German will have Algebra 2 and German 2 behind them to substantiate the claim of coursework in the earlier grade. Something like literature doesn't necessarily have that. I'm trying to be conservative in my claims, while still profiling the hard work they do. But I don't want my transcripts to elicit an eye roll in the admissions offices.

[cindylee]

I I understand listing something like Algebra 1 or German 1. .....

 

Yes, I was only talking about listing Algebra 1 and Physical Science(not any other subjects done in 8th grade that are less quantifiable)....both of which even the textbooks state are high school courses. The state I live in does count Algebra 1 as one of the math requirements and does state it can be taken in 8th grade and counted. It doesn't say that about science. My question was how to list it....do I list it in an 8th grade column....just asterick like some have suggested or maybe do a transcript ....or do a subject type transcript.

[Sisyphus]

My Ds attended a middle school part time that awarded high school credit for foreign language. So Ds has 3 years of Chinese, complete with high school transcript of credit awarded, for 6th-8th grade.

 

Seems weird to put it on a hs transcript (a mom-made one that will also include his part time high school stuff) for such early grades, but hey- it's 3 years of Chinese!

 

Should I include it on it's own column (and attach the transcripts from the school), or leave it off?

 

He will end up with a ridiculous 7foreign language credits, if completes the planned 4 years of Russian...

[kohlby]

We'll likely tailor the transcript to what the college wants. It also depends on my child's path. He's currently taking his second high school level math course and is not high school age yet. We're using a more difficult curriculum than high schools use - I used to teach high school math so I'm aware that his Alg I was far more challenging than honors Alg I at the public school level. But, we aren't sure of his path yet. He may go to the state's public magnet math/science school. In that case, I want those on there but I may not count them for credit if it means he's disqualified since it's only a school for jrs and srs and you can only apply as a sophomore. He may decide to do dual enrollment in a pre-engineering program through a local tech school instead. So I'd want those on there when applying for that program. When it comes time for college, I'll do what I think is necessary as far as credits. I don't know my child's path yet. So I'm writing down everything in case I need it for later. I'll edit it to the situation - whether it be early graduation, dual enrollment, or a magnet upper high school.

[klmama]

I'm not including a separate column for high school level courses taken in middle school, nor do I list grades. Instead, I included the names of those HS level courses taken in middle school in a "notes" section on the transcript. That way, admissions officers know the material was covered, but that I'm not claiming credit. (One college we might consider specifically mentioned students taking earth science in 9th, but my student took it in 8th). I haven't decided yet if I want to include course descriptions for those courses or if I should include the books read then on my dc's reading list.

[creekland]

I would disagree with some of the others here.

 

I have a list of high school courses, and high school/college-level curricula which needs to be completed before I will issue my dss their diplomas. The state has a list of subjects that needs to be covered by home schooled students, and I also know what high school classes our state's colleges are requiring for high school graduates. I have a plan, and I know what needs to get done.

 

Whenever the high school coursework is completed, my dc receives credit. Whether he's 13 or 19 doesn't matter to me.

 

The public school grade-level-by-age model is used for the masses of students moving through their system. We are free from being locked into a system that says that a student can never work ahead of their aged peers, and that advanced work would never be given credit if it's done "too early" even if it the dc is academically ready. We are free from that insanity!

 

In theory I definitely agree with you.

As an example, a local home schooling family has their kids successfully finish high school coursework by the time the dc are 16 years old. The three oldest have all started college at 17, and are working on advanced degrees in medicine, engineering and architecture. The next four are on track to finish by 16 as well. Now, are they doing "high school work in 8th grade"? Probably. This mom had these kids so academically advanced by the time they were six years old, that she decided to just home school them all the way through and wrap their schooling up "early." It's amazing to watch.

 

Coming from the camp who is not at all interested in having advanced kids push on early, this doesn't "amaze" me. I definitely think kids should be allowed to work at challenging academic and life things, but I don't feel that needs to include a push to be in college (full time) at any particular age. I enjoyed keeping my "advanced" kids home until the more normal time to do college - and they certainly haven't been harmed by it nor do they regret it. They've enjoyed their time. Homeschooling does give one a bit of freedom. ;)

 

If your dc is doing high school level work "early", give him credit! List the courses on the transcript by subject, or simply divide all of the high school courses completed by four and list them between four typical years, assigning four typical school years. The transcript was developed by public high schools to document the completion of courses by their students. Remember, we home school families are already outside of the box to begin with, so the transcript doesn't always "fit" us. We have to somehow fill it out to show that the dc has finished the courses, and what the grades are. Make the transcript conform to you, and your high school. Don't conform yourself and your dc's education to the transcript. It's just a form. The college needs to know that the high school coursework has been completed successfully. That's it, IMO.

 

This is where I potentially have a major ethical problem. Many colleges only want to know what was completed in the last 4 (sometimes 3) years before an applicant applies. They want to see challenging work completed recently. If a parent were to just "assign" the courses inaccurately - that's a lie and I have ethical issues with lying. I'd MUCH rather just tell the truth knowing if what I did wasn't ok with a college, my youngster shouldn't be going there. Most colleges are quite flexible with homeschoolers, but I'd really HOPE if they got wind of someone lying that they'd immediately dismiss the applicant from consideration. Who knows what else they'd lie about?

 

Just my two cents. I agree with the first part, go "eh, to each their own, but it's sure not 'me'" with the second, and have a big distaste for part of the recommendation at the end.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It is not uncommon to have a section for each grade 9-12 and another "above the line" section for courses completed before 9th grade. (I was at a homeschooling high school workshop last week by one of the HSLDA high school staffers. They had an example of this format in their packet, but I'm not finding it in their online samples.) Subject listings instead of by grade listings might work, although schools and other programs might require a by grade transcript (NCAA, for example, requires a grade by grade listing). Nan was posting recently that her kid was successful in his college applications, even though she hadn't assigned grades to most courses (or maybe any?) so out of the norm can still be something that gets the attention of college admissions officers. While we aren't bound by the requirements for a state issued high school diploma (in most states), I feel like it's prudent to keep an eye on the type of student who will compete with mine for college spots and scholarships. In my area, that pool is full of students who are graduating with high test scores, AP classes, interesting extracurriculars, etc. There are enough of these types of students in my county to fill the freshman class at the flagship state uni. (Just to give an example, I was speaking as an alumna of my alma mater at a college night last month and one of the questions was if there was a limit to how many college credits an applying high school student could have. Other students were working on their second AP science and had several other AP courses. The merits of AP and IB are for another thread. My point being that not all public school students are sitting around watching the clock run down to senior year. There is some considerable talent out their in the brick and mortar world.) I share Creekland's distaste for putting together a transcript that isn't truthful. (This is one reason the NCAA homeschool worksheets give me such stress; trying to match what we've done with their requirements without being dishonest is a challenge. But that's also another thread.) Were I to be interviewing a student for my alma mater and realize that a student (homeschooled, private or public) had been deceptive in their application, I would strongly highlight that in my write up and potentially give them a not recommended rating. YMMV. A big state school might just be looking at SAT scores and a transcript that checks the boxes. My college puts an emphasis on in person interviews and has a strong honor concept as a core part of the college life.

[Brigid in NC]

I definitely think kids should be allowed to work at challenging academic and life things, but I don't feel that needs to include a push to be in college (full time) at any particular age. I enjoyed keeping my "advanced" kids home until the more normal time to do college - and they certainly haven't been harmed by it nor do they regret it. They've enjoyed their time. Homeschooling does give one a bit of freedom. ;)

 

:iagree:

I mourned when my first went off. We were in no hurry!

 

Our only pre-9th class listing (as an asterisk below the 9th-12th listings) was biology. If my ds's had taken Human Anatomy or an advanced bio class in 9th-12th, I would have left that off. My scienc-y guys packed in 4 years of 9th-12th science, but biology was not their interest--so I wanted to make sure that a college wouldn't interpret the absence of biology in the 9th-to-12th timeframe as no biology at all. :)

[Teachin'Mine]

If a parent is teaching to mastery, then if you use algebra as an example, that student should get an A on a final exam. If the student does not get an A, then the material for the class was not mastered. IOW, if teaching to mastery, then that means the student has learned the material to the level of an A and this would have been substantiated by test results. In that case, why not just assigned the A as it was earned? If you're only requiring "mastery" to a B level, then the student would have earned a B and that should be the grade on the transcript.

 

If a student completed some work before 9th, then I don't see any problem with listing it separately on the transcript clearly stating that it was done before 9th. If the student is doing more than the usual math and science before ninth and you want to give high school credit, then I would probably opt to list the courses by subject rather than by year. IMO it's unethical to arbitrarily assign subjects to the years, but perfectly okay to include them by subject. There are ways to accommodate a non-traditional curriculum in a transcript without having to represent the work dishonestly. This is harmful not only to the particular student, but to the homeschool community at large. Just my opinion.

[creekland]

If a parent is teaching to mastery, then if you use algebra as an example, that student should get an A on a final exam. If the student does not get an A, then the material for the class was not mastered. IOW, if teaching to mastery, then that means the student has learned the material to the level of an A and this would have been substantiated by test results. In that case, why not just assigned the A as it was earned? If you're only requiring "mastery" to a B level, then the student would have earned a B and that should be the grade on the transcript.

 

If a student completed some work before 9th, then I don't see any problem with listing it separately on the transcript clearly stating that it was done before 9th. If the student is doing more than the usual math and science before ninth and you want to give high school credit, then I would probably opt to list the courses by subject rather than by year. IMO it's unethical to arbitrarily assign subjects to the years, but perfectly okay to include them by subject. There are ways to accommodate a non-traditional curriculum in a transcript without having to represent the work dishonestly. This is harmful not only to the particular student, but to the homeschool community at large. Just my opinion.

 

I'm with you on this one. I have no problem putting down what was done and we did teach to mastery (which I explained in my grading part). Since many colleges do care how recent credit has been, changing the years to fit anything is just plain wrong. Having the course on the transcript is not wrong - just where it's presented (or how it's presented) matters.

 

How a college chooses to assign a GPA for those who don't grade is up to them. It's not like they are forcing College B to do the same or are sending that college a transcript with their assigned GPA on it.

[Muttichen]

I have heard that some colleges explicitly want to see algebra 1 on the transcript, even if it is obvious from the course progression that the student must have taken it at some point. So, I put algebra 1 so they can check that box. She still has more than the required four math credits for high school.

 

 

I have never heard this. My kids were very accelerated in math; they did algebra 1 in 5th grade, so the first math listed on the transcript was calculus BC. We still had them do 4 credits of math in 9th-12th grade. They did things like calc 3 and differential equations and linear algebra at the community college. They applied to selective schools and no one ever asked about the earlier math classes.

[snowbeltmom]

They applied to selective schools and no one ever asked about the earlier math classes.

Did your kids apply to private schools? Is so, that may explain why you didn't have any issues when you didn't list geometry, etc on the transcripts.

 

I have also read of others who needed to list Alg I on the transcript to satisfy an admission requirement. However, this was at a public university. Imo, it seems that the public universities tend to have more boxes that need to be check, regardless of whether checking those boxes actually makes sense.

[Muttichen]

Did your kids apply to private schools?

 

 

Mostly, although my oldest dd did apply to William and Mary, which is a public university. I can imagine many schools saying they want students to have taken algebra, but I think if you've taken calculus and beyond and have 800 on the SAT math, it should be pretty clear you've covered it. I know government doesn't always make sense though!

[Joan in GE]

In case there is anyone considering studies over here....it's important to look at the uni requirements...Eg here they insist that each of these 6 areas have all be studied in the last three years. (each year) And now they've added a percentage of time...Look how much time is expected for languages and math and science! (Science humaine is geography, history and the like - social sciences)

 

Branches exigées

1) Première langue

2) Deuxième langue

3) Mathématiques

4) Sciences naturelles (biologie, chimie, physique)

5) Sciences sociales et humaines (géographie, histoire, économie/droit)

6) Choix libre (une branche parmi les branches 2, 4 ou 5)

Attention: ces six branches doivent avoir été suivies durant chacune des trois dernières années d’études secondaires supérieures.

Les divers domaines d’études mentionnés ci-dessus doivent représenter au moins les pourcentages suivants de l’enseignement:

30 à 40 % pour les langues,

25 à 35 % pour les mathématiques et les sciences expérimentales,

10 à 20 % pour les sciences humaines.

 

Joan

[creekland]

I don't think any public school here would devote 30 - 40% of time to languages. A few kids do study more than one language, but at best, that's 25% of their time (2 of 8 classes) unless they were to skip the earlier years and toss all the languages in at the end. With our block scheduling, that could happen (would be up to 50% languages, but then cramming in the rest could be tougher). With the way the brain learns language (younger is better), I'm not sure waiting is a plus.

 

Interesting nonetheless...

[Joan in GE]

I don't think any public school here would devote 30 - 40% of time to languages. A few kids do study more than one language, but at best, that's 25% of their time (2 of 8 classes) unless they were to skip the earlier years and toss all the languages in at the end. With our block scheduling, that could happen (would be up to 50% languages, but then cramming in the rest could be tougher). With the way the brain learns language (younger is better), I'm not sure waiting is a plus.

 

 

This is a new requirement - so I haven't calculated yet if it would be true for us even...I suppose with three languages, it should work. Generally here people have been studying a second language from 3rd grade and a third language from 5th grade....all the way through the end of middle school, and now I guess high school for university candidates....

 

It's a good point that you make because on the list of 6 areas, there are only two languages....which could be misleading timewise....

 

Joan

[creekland]

 

 

This is a new requirement - so I haven't calculated yet if it would be true for us even...I suppose with three languages, it should work. Generally here people have been studying a second language from 3rd grade and a third language from 5th grade....all the way through the end of middle school, and now I guess high school for university candidates....

 

It's a good point that you make because on the list of 6 areas, there are only two languages....which could be misleading timewise....

 

Joan

 

 

And in my ps, we don't start languages until 9th grade... where I went to school (also public) we started in 7th grade. Anyone coming from here and applying over there almost can't come from an average public school unless they have something special going on with languages.

[Teachin'Mine]

Joan what a unique way to set requirements. It would seem to me that a student who wants to concentrate in history or other social sciences would be at a distinct disadvantage. I wonder if a homeschooler would leave off the transcript some of the "extra" work in history as that would then require more work in the other areas in order to meet the percentage requirements. Honestly, I'm so glad we go by years or credits of study here rather than percentages.

[Teachin'Mine]

Joan what a unique way to set requirements. It would seem to me that a student who wants to concentrate in history or other social sciences would be at a distinct disadvantage. I wonder if a homeschooler would leave off the transcript some of the "extra" work in history as that would then require more work in the other areas in order to meet the percentage requirements. Honestly, I'm so glad we go by years or credits of study here rather than percentages.

 

ETA: I should have translated the whole thing before I replied. : P I see that there can be additional courses in areas 2, 4 and 5. Still not sure that the percentages would always work out to within their specs for a student with a specialized interest.

 

branches required

1) First Language

2) Second language

3) Mathematics

4) Natural sciences (biology, chemistry, physics)

5) Social sciences and humanities (geography, history, economics / law)

6) Free choice (a branch among the branches 2, 4 or 5)

Warning: these six branches should have been followed during the last three years of upper secondary education.

The various fields of study mentioned above must be at least the following percentages of teaching:

30 to 40% for languages

25 to 35% for mathematics and experimental sciences

10 to 20% for the Humanities.

 

I'm not sure they included math teachers on their advisory panel... When they say that the percentages must be at least those listed, they're not understanding that if one is given significantly more time than the percentages assigned, then that will automatically reduce the percentages for the others.

[regentrude]

Joan: does "First Language" refer to a student's native language, or to a first foreign language (in which case I am missing a requirement for native language)? I know it is difficult in Switzerland with three "native" languages...

 

 

Branches exigées

1) Première langue

2) Deuxième langue

3) Mathématiques

4) Sciences naturelles (biologie, chimie, physique)

5) Sciences sociales et humaines (géographie, histoire, économie/droit)

6) Choix libre (une branche parmi les branches 2, 4 ou 5)

Attention: ces six branches doivent avoir été suivies durant chacune des trois dernières années d’études secondaires supérieures.

Les divers domaines d’études mentionnés ci-dessus doivent représenter au moins les pourcentages suivants de l’enseignement:

30 à 40 % pour les langues,

25 à 35 % pour les mathématiques et les sciences expérimentales,

10 à 20 % pour les sciences humaines.

 

College prep high schools in my state in Germany have the following requirements

For example 10th grade: 35 periods per week

German 4

Math 4

English 3

2nd foreign language 3

Science (bio, chem, phys) 6 (2 each)

Social science (history, government/econ, geography, religion/ethics) 8 (2 each)

Art 1

Music 1

PE 2

free electives/specialization 3

 

This comes to 10 hours for the three languages, or 28%.

 

In 6th and 7th grades, students would have 4 hours of each of the two foreign languages, bringing the three languages to 36% total of the 33 required periods per week.

[creekland]

 

College prep high schools in my state in Germany have the following requirements

For example 10th grade: 35 periods per week

German 4

Math 4

English 3

2nd foreign language 3

Science (bio, chem, phys) 6 (2 each)

Social science (history, government/econ, geography, religion/ethics) 8 (2 each)

Art 1

Music 1

PE 2

free electives/specialization 3

 

This comes to 10 hours for the three languages, or 28%.

 

In 6th and 7th grades, students would have 4 hours of each of the two foreign languages, bringing the three languages to 36% total of the 33 required periods per week.

 

But the 30 - 40% had to be in the last three years... (see bolded part of Jean's list)

[regentrude]

 

But the 30 - 40% had to be in the last three years... (see bolded part of Jean's list)

 

 

I realize that. I am not from Switzerland; I merely posted the breakdown for German schools for comparison.

[creekland]

Gotcha... so even among (some) European countries it would be difficult to get their percentages as things are. That surprises me. It doesn't surprise me with the US and our lack of emphasis on languages.

[regentrude]

 

But the 30 - 40% had to be in the last three years... (see bolded part of Jean's list)

 

 

I realize that. I am not from Switzerland; I merely posted the breakdown for German schools for comparison.

Students focus on one of the foreign languages in 11th/12th; I am not sure about the hour breakdown for that.

[EKS]

Here is the math requirement for admission to Western Washington University:

 

Mathematics

Three units of mathematics, including geometry and two units of algebra beyond pre-algebra

[creekland]

Joan: does "First Language" refer to a student's native language, or to a first foreign language (in which case I am missing a requirement for native language)? I know it is difficult in Switzerland with three "native" languages...

 

 

This is something I overlooked too. If we consider the "native" language, then our kids studying 2 additional languages would have it (3 of 8 classes).

[regentrude]

Gotcha... so even among (some) European countries it would be difficult to get their percentages as things are. That surprises me. It doesn't surprise me with the US and our lack of emphasis on languages.

 

 

It does not surprise me, because languages are not the only important subject.

If you allocate 40% of available time to languages, you have to cut somewhere else; I would argue that one should spend at least as much time on math and science. That leaves the remainder of time to be divided up between social sciences, electives, art, music...

 

Also, percentage of time spent is not necessarily a useful measure. A European student who has studied his first foreign language since 3rd and his second foreign language since 6th grade and only takes each language for two hours per week in 10th grade is at a much higher level of proficiency than a student who starts in 9th grade and spends 5 periods per week. I do not see the high school years in isolation; anything accomplished in the upper grades is based on previous accomplishments in the lower grades.

(Whatever our "lesser" requirements were, they got me fluent in two foreign language - I consider this successful.)

[Joan in GE]

Joan what a unique way to set requirements. It would seem to me that a student who wants to concentrate in history or other social sciences would be at a distinct disadvantage. I wonder if a homeschooler would leave off the transcript some of the "extra" work in history as that would then require more work in the other areas in order to meet the percentage requirements. Honestly, I'm so glad we go by years or credits of study here rather than percentages.

 

ETA: I should have translated the whole thing before I replied. : P I see that there can be additional courses in areas 2, 4 and 5. Still not sure that the percentages would always work out to within their specs for a student with a specialized interest.

 

I'm not sure they included math teachers on their advisory panel... When they say that the percentages must be at least those listed, they're not understanding that if one is given significantly more time than the percentages assigned, then that will automatically reduce the percentages for the others.

 

No I think you got it right about the problem of concentrating in history, etc...Because even though you can do that coursework in the other areas, in order to have enough language time/credit (to be determined), I don't think you'd be able to have much time in history, etc...

 

But somewhere it says that students are supposed to have a general education - not highly specialized....So while they are supposed to have a certain level of advanced science in one area, and calculus level of math, the humanities are definitely not given much time/credit....the languages automatically become the specialty - from an American perspective it seems to me at least.

 

Joan: does "First Language" refer to a student's native language, or to a first foreign language (in which case I am missing a requirement for native language)? I know it is difficult in Switzerland with three "native" languages...

 

Native language...

 

Gotcha... so even among (some) European countries it would be difficult to get their percentages as things are. That surprises me. It doesn't surprise me with the US and our lack of emphasis on languages.

 

I'm wondering about this too! wondering if this is a way of keeping out graduates from certain countries....

 

I'm seriously wondering how things will match up with the American high school diploma with state requirements....I might have to find a different state....

 

 

This is something I overlooked too. If we consider the "native" language, then our kids studying 2 additional languages would have it (3 of 8 classes).

 

Yes, it doesn't have to have started beforehand...it's just the last three years...It doesn't give a mandatory level...at least there's some leeway about that...

 

Joan

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My high school had seven classes. Total 28 credits available. I took four English, three German and three French. So 35% were language classes.

I think 6.5 would have been science or math. That's 23%. That was low because I dropped math senior year in favor of French. Bad choice in the end.