Algebra 2 help, please

[tvaleri]

Seeking wisdom from you wise women.....

 

Long story short, in October switched ds, 16, back to Saxon for math after he completed TT Alg 1 & Geometry. He has struggled all year. Thought he just needed an adjustment period. Consistently, he misses 8 problems on each lesson, but scores 85% to 95% on tests. He is using Mr. Reed dvd's and Kahn Academy for instruction as well. I require all problems in the set be worked and make him rework the ones he missed. He sees sometimes careless errors trip him up; other times, he doesn't understand.

 

He has 25 lessons left in Saxon Algebra 2. The dilemma......have him persevere through Saxon Advanced Math with Mr. Reed/Kahn? Have him work through Lial's Intermediate Algebra? At this level, neither dh or I can instruct him or even give guidance when he gets stuck.

 

Some quick looking around, I found in our area:

Local homeschool classical co-op pre-cal tutorial $576 plus books

Local homeschool Saxon math class: $70 per month plus books/reg fees

Ds is not ready for the community college scene; so that's not an option.

 

I have Lial's Beginning and Intermediate Algebra on my shelf, but I don't think he needs to go through algebra 1 (again). Would Lial's Intermediate Algebra even be a good option?

 

After spending the last month researching chemistry to death, I really don't want to do the same with math :crying:

 

TIA,

Teresa

[coffeegal]

Uhhh, if he's doing 85%-95% on the tests, he's mastering the material. The lessons are lessons. Kids are expected to make mistakes and learn while doing the problem set. The tests check for mastery. If he's doing 80% or better on the last several tests in the book, he's ready for Saxon's Advanced Math next year. My suggestion would be to stick with what he's doing... unless he hates the format. Then I'd use one of the homeschool classes. Does your son have an opinion? :001_smile:

[rjand6more]

Just this year I have stopped giving grades for daily work and only grade tests in math. I also feel that lessons are meant to learn and making mistakes is learning. :) Sounds like your son has mastered the material.

[Kathie in VA]

I agree with the others in that tests are your form of evaluating how well he knows the material... his grades show he has learned it.

 

If you both want a different means of learning the material, then here is another option:

http://myhomeschoolmathclass.com/

The teacher for these online math classes is Jann in Tx. I learned about her classes from this site. We did two of them this year and it went well. BTW, she uses Lial's books.

 

hths

[Julie in MN]

Joining in the agreement that making mistakes along the way is part of the process.

 

Adding that, based on using the Singapore method in elementary school, I've come to value trying things in different ways in math. Last night, there was a rerun of a talk about how education should not teach kids that it's bad to get it wrong:

 

 

Original here http://www.ted.com/t...creativity.html

(it has 4-5 minutes of intro before he jumps into his point during the 5th-6th minutes -- that's the point that relates here, moreso than his desire to promote the arts)

 

Julie

[LMV]

I'm a big believer that the way to learn math (and some computational aspects of certain sciences) is to work through a sufficient quantity of a representative sampling of problems. What defines a sufficient quantity depends on the student and how many problems they need to work to achieve mastery. Based on your son's test scores it seems like he is achieving mastery unless you see that he is missing all of the problems relating to a certain concept then he may have a knowledge or construct gap. If an item analysis doesn't reveal a disturbing trend then I'm not sure there is anything wrong with your approach. Providing that your approach is sound, it is also possible that he could work only 50% of the problems and still achieve mastery and that might be beneficial if you are in a time crunch (or if working all of the problems is making math more of a drudge and less of an interesting puzzle to figure out). So you may want to experiment with working a lower percentage of problems and see if his mastery level drops.

 

At this level, neither dh or I can instruct him or even give guidance when he gets stuck.

I do think he needs to have some kind of resource that he can go to when he has questions or is not getting a concept. Could you find a tutor that could work one on one with him? Is there another parent in your Co-Op that might trade being a math resource for you being a resource for their child in another area? Our oldest daughter really did pretty much teach herself math from eighth grade on but she had a really strong framework to work from and both her dad and I were able to work through any of the problems in her book up through her beginning forays into calculus. She also attended a problem solving session weekly that was run by the teacher who wrote the unit tests she took in her Algebra II/ Trig class and in her AP Calculus class. After AP Calculus her remaining math has been dually enrolled at a local 4 year college so she has had a professor to run questions by as well.

 

Good Luck!

[regentrude]

I do not see the problem: he performs well on the tests, so he has learned the material.

Daily problems are for practice and learning. A math curriculum where the student gets consistently 100% correct on all problems is too easy and not challenging the student.

If your program is working, I see no need to change it.

[Brenda in MA]

Uhhh, if he's doing 85%-95% on the tests, he's mastering the material.

 

I do not see the problem: he performs well on the tests, so he has learned the material.

 

In my experience with Saxon, the above is not always true. Getting high marks on the tests means that he can do Saxon problems to a good degree of accuracy. It doesn't necessarily mean that he understands the material, although he might.

 

My oldest used Saxon through the first half of Advanced Math, scoring over 90% on the tests. However, I found around the same time that he could not apply the math to his chemistry & physics courses. I had him do a pretest on Aleks and found that he tested near the beginning of Algebra 2 (this after completing Saxon Algebra 2 & half of Advanced Math). I ended up having him use Aleks that summer to shore up his Algebra 2 skills and then re-do PreCalc from the beginning with Chalkdust.

 

In your situation, I'd check his skills with Aleks and decide where to go from there. I think they have a couple of day free trial. If you find his skills lacking, since you say you can't help him with math, I'd strongly suggest considering the local option for Pre-Calc for $576 as long as they use another book besides Saxon.

 

If, after checking his skills, you find that they are OK, then you could either stick with Saxon with one of the DVD options, or go for the local, live class that uses Saxon.

 

I don't want to be an alarmist, but while I have read that some kids learn and retain well while using Saxon, my own experience shows that this is not true in every case. Since math is such an important subject, I think it's worth finding out where your child falls in this.

 

BTW -- I do agree with the others that his scores on the daily work aren't that important. The daily work is where he learns the material, so it's not surprising that he's missing more problems there. I do correct my sons' math work daily and make them fix mistakes, but I don't count those grades in their averages for the courses.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[FaithManor]

I do not see the problem: he performs well on the tests, so he has learned the material.

Daily problems are for practice and learning. A math curriculum where the student gets consistently 100% correct on all problems is too easy and not challenging the student.

If your program is working, I see no need to change it.

 

Exactly what Regentrude said! Daily work is for mastering the concepts and there will be some mistakes during that process. I do not include daily work in the final grades of my high school kids. Since Lial's has about 80 problems per lesson, I assign the odds and if the score is 90% or above, we go to the next lesson and make sure they also have a few problems of mixed review. If the score is less, we do the evens and then see what transpires from there.

 

I have never used Saxon so I don't know how many problems per day your student does, but if he's consistently in the B/B+ or higher range on daily work and pulling in mostly A's on the chapter or module exams with good grades on mixed reviews or midterms, I really would not sweat that. Just always watch for any consistency in type of error, something that is a regular "trip up", so you can remedy that before it becomes a bad habit.

 

Faith

[tvaleri]

Thanks, ladies. You've given me lots to look at and work through.

 

I appreciate part of the learning process is done through making mistakes and I haven't freaked out with him missing so many. I see the frustration in his face when I hand him a paper with so many marked wrong day in and day out. Just want to be sure he has solid math skills.

 

FWIW, ds doesn't like Saxon, but feels he is definitely learning more than with TT. He is committed to staying the course if I tell him to.

 

Smiles,

Teresa

[Mountainmama]

My son also swithed back from TT - we use Saxon Teacher tutorial dvds - decent prices are usually found on ebay.