s/o How many "credits" to graduate. Is less more?

[Kendall]

 

. I think I could be happy with letting my son graduate with 24 credits in tougher classes while we go more in depth.

 

Lisa,

 

Thank you for saying this in the how many "Credits" for high school thread. As I think about my rising 10th grader's schedule the phrase "less is more" keeps popping into my head. Then today I read these quotes.

 

" Before he is 18, no one has time to do more than a few things well; therefore,

better to teach a few subjects thoroughly than to force a child to be a

mediocrity in many subjects, destroying his standards, obscuring the nature of

mastery, and concealing the measure of his ignorance. The school is not

preeminently a place where the child is exposed to a kaleidoscope of new ideas,

but where he is given the direction, the discipline, and the methods to master

basic ideas and where art, science, and letters are studied with the intention

of forming the student's conscience and style.

 

Hicks, Norms & Nobility p. 127-8"

 

"In those days a boy on the classical side officially did almost nothing

but classics. I think this was wise; the greatest service we can do to

education today is to teach fewer subjects. No one has time to do more

than a very few things well before he is twenty, and when we force a

boy to be a mediocrity in a dozen subjects we destroy his standards,

perhaps for life."

 

C. S. Lewis *Surprised by Joy*

 

This has really got me to thinking. My older son got into a more exclusive school (not top tier) with 26.5 credits. I felt like my current high schooler had a solid academic year this year with 7 different subjects, all academic(no fine arts, PE, etc). But only 6 credits because one of the classes he only did for 30 min per day and the other for 45 so I will count both of those as 1/2 credit classes. The courses he spent an hour on a day were 1 credit. This is 6.5 hours of school time spent doing academic work (and some evenings/weekends finishing things he didn't finish in the hour) . To me this is enough time spent and still allows him to do his music and to listen to me read aloud and to study the Bible and to be physically active and to spend time with others. But then I see that others are getting 7-8 credits a year so are we doing enough? I have thought that he could do an elective in the summer to get more credits, but do we really need to? I may still do that, but maybe I'd rather let him learn what he wants in the summer(he has goals) with no requirements. Am I being lax? And do I care if I am? Hmmm.

 

Thoughts anyone? I know some of you are doing more credits and doing it well. I'm not questioning or criticizing that. But do we HAVE to in order to prepare them well for life and college? Just thinking aloud.

 

Kendall

[teachermom2834]

My ds is one doing 7-8 credits a year but that is because he is required to have certain things for our umbrella school (such as health, pe, computer apps, Bible, personal finance, etc. etc). So, for my ds those are in addition to what I require for his education. So, while my ds might have 7 or 8 credits they are not credits that will give my ds any advantage when comparing transcripts. If I was not required to have those extras I think it would be great to focus on less classes and have them all be very high quality.

[regentrude]

Kendall, I think you are doing enough. I want my high schoolers to have time for physical activity, choir, socializing, free reading - and that means I aim at 6 hours of academics per day in 9th and 10th grade (after that, dual enrollment takes whatever it takes).

I have some non-negotiables: four years each of math, science, English, history and foreign language, to satisfy the requirements of the selective schools DD wants to apply to. That makes 20 mandatory credits right there.

Art and music education are part of our lives; we study those subjects on a continuing basis, with books and DVDs and with many live performances and museum visits, so that by the end of high school, they have one credit in each - rather painlessly, simply through what constitutes a part of our lives anyway.

PE is the same - some colleges want to see PE, so I will take a portion of our physical activity that we do anyway and give credit for it.

Computer skills must be developed for college success - this happens along the way, through using the software to accomplish certain things in content subjects.

We are bilingual and take care to pass on our heritage language; we watch films, read, visit the country for total immersion - another credit. So, we're at 25 now.

Any credits my DD has beyond those are the result of courses she WANTS to take because she is interested. But DS who is less driven might quite possibly end up with 26-28 credits, and I would feel that the basics have been covered thoroughly and that he is prepared for college.

I do not give credits for things like driver's ed or personal finance, because to me these are life skills. I may put a half credit for health education on the transcript because some schools might expect this - but it is something I would teach my kids anyway, and I consider it more life than academics.

 

ETA: I might end up giving one "frivolous" practical arts credit for culinary science for DD. She taught herself the art of making pastries and deserts through video lectures and tutorials, has also studied the underlying food chemistry and invested a lot of time. I figure this demonstrates being well-rounded and somewhat practical - to balance out all the calculus and advanced physics courses. (I would not include it if it looked as if I was desperately trying to pad the transcript because her academics were not rigorous enough).

[8filltheheart]

Unless school systems are on the block semester system, I think 22-26 is far more normal than 28+.

[klmama]

How many hours are you requiring for a credit? I've read that 120-180 is the norm for a full credit. A class that meets for 45 minutes 5 days a week for 36 weeks exceeds the minimum with 135 hours. Public school classes usually run for 36 weeks, but their class periods are usually 50 minutes for 150 hours total. That ends up being a difference of only 15 hours. It seems a shame to spend so much time on the subject and not get full credit for it for only 15 hours of missing time. If you school for only 36 weeks and aren't giving full credit simply because of those missing 15 hours, you could spend two full days on that subject for intensive study to edge it up to the 150 hours. If you school for 40 weeks, your student will already hit the 150 mark without spending any extra days.

 

I think it would be very reasonable to give him P.E. credit, too, if he actually spends about 2 hours a week on physical activity. P.E. isn't just for learning team sports. It's also for developing the life-long habit of daily physical activity.

[Julie in MN]

Unless school systems are on the block semester system, I think 22-26 is far more normal than 28+.

Yes, schools in the Twin Cities offer 6 classes per day, with a "zero hour" early in the morning. Zero hour offers very few courses and is designed for those who are heavily involved in band and choir type things. So a transcript with more than 24 credits is physically impossible other than for band&choir type students. The minimum is more like 22.

 

Julie

[Amominfl]

I am aiming for 24 credits for my son which is the # required here in FL. However, we are doing it in 3.5 yrs rather than the normal 4. This is mainly because I will be giving him elective credits for things that for PS students would be ECs and also throwing in a credit or 2 that will be done a little here and there over the course of the entire 3.5 yrs. We are mainly focusing on the core English, Math, Science and Soc Stud with only 2 yrs of Foreign Lang.

[K&Rs Mom]

Here the ps requirement is 27.5 credits (of 30 possible over 4 years). They can take 5 subjects per trimester, so some of their electives get compressed into a shorter number of months, while math/language would be a full-year class. 30 possible divided by 4 years means they could earn 7.5 per year maximum, and the 27.5 divided by 4 means they have to get 7 most years. I think you could count your 45-minute class as a full credit: my highschool class periods were all 45 minutes, and that included all the settling in & taking attendance that isn't wasted in a homeschool class. That's what makes it hard to compare credits between schools or districts or states - what you need to do to get one credit varies so much - yet college applications just want that raw number.

[Lori D.]

"less is more"...

Thoughts anyone? I know some of you are doing more credits and doing it well. I'm not questioning or criticizing that. But do we HAVE to in order to prepare them well for life and college?

 

 

 

Less has certainly turned out to be more here! Frankly, 26 credits was all our DSs could manage to do WELL. We managed 6 credits/year, with an additional 2 credits earned either in 8th grade, or over the summers. That allowed us the ability to explore extracurriculars that were FAR more valuable in the long run than squeezing in additional credits.

 

I just cannot express *how* important those skills in leadership, public speaking, and responsibility that our DSs gained from the activities and real life have been -- and those skills would NOT have come through additional credits for our DSs.

 

In addition, we are a family of introverts, and by not overloading the school schedule, it has allowed DSs time to think, to fiddle about with interests, to have time to really get solid in what is of value to them and who they are as young adults. Running at top speed to keep up with doing APs and a mega amounts of credits would not have prepared them for adult life as much as having a more relaxed pace, the opportunity to go deeper in fewer things, and esp. those activities that have caused them to grow as people.

 

In no way trying to say this is the route for everyone, and I do sincerely believe families with different goals, and with students of different temperaments do well going for the rigor of more credits and more advanced work.

 

But in answer to your question in your subject heading: Yes, for this family less really was more. :) BEST wishes to all in walking the path that is best for each individual family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Julie in MN]

Here the ps requirement is 27.5 credits (of 30 possible over 4 years). They can take 5 subjects per trimester,

 

Yes, it's almost impossible to compare trimester credits to year credits. It looks like some of their math courses are only 2 trimesters for 1 credit, and a few are 3 trimesters for 1.5 credits:

http://www.alleganpublicschools.org/highschool/hsmath.html

[K&Rs Mom]

Yes, it's almost impossible to compare trimester credits to year credits. It looks like some of their math courses are only 2 trimesters for 1 credit, and a few are 3 trimesters for 1.5 credits:

http://www.alleganpu...ool/hsmath.html

 

That's why I wonder how colleges are able to evaluate applications at all. Do they have some way to translate everyone's raw numbers to an equal system? Or do they compare the students who have 30 trimester credits vs the 24 semester credits, even though both did the max that their school allows?

[SkateLeft]

.

[snowbeltmom]

 

That's why I wonder how colleges are able to evaluate applications at all. Do they have some way to translate everyone's raw numbers to an equal system? Or do they compare the students who have 30 trimester credits vs the 24 semester credits, even though both did the max that their school allows?

 

My guess is that the adcoms don't really worry about the total credit hours assigned and simply focus on the course of study listed on the transcript.

 

Just as a couple of examples, I awarded my son 1 credit for AP Calc BC and 1 credit for AP Chemistry. Had he taken these classes at our local public school, he would have been awarded 2 credits for competing BC calc in one school year, and 1.5 credits for the chemistry.

[LisaKinVA]

Our county has a minimum of 22 credit hours, and 26 credit hours for an advanced diploma...which means the advanced students take an average of 6.5 credits each year...(practically, that means 2 AP courses would be required). Students in Governor's School usually graduate with somewhere between 32-36 credits, due to DE and AP's (they start taking AP courses their freshman year, and start DE work their sophomore year.

 

I know I had 7 year-long courses my sophomore year in high school (Alg 2., Hon. Chem, Hon. English, Hon. Spanish, Hon. World History, Band, PE/Health), had I remained enrolled (due to the slate of AP's on my schedule), I would have graduated with well over 30.

 

My oldest son will probably graduate with over 30 credit hours as well. I do plan to award AP and DE work as 2 CH for a year, as that is what is done in my area.

 

While my son will have *a lot* of credits...it will be due more to the fact that he went deeper than simply more. Most of his credits will be due to AP-Level and DE type work. There will be electives, to be certain...but they will not make up the bulk of his work (or his high school credits)

[Julie in MN]

A transcript with more than 24 units is also entirely possible for any student who participates in PSEO or who takes summer school classes. The state of MN (124D.09, sub 12) awards a full year of high school credit for any 4+ credit dual enrollment class taken through PSEO. As a result, many kids are graduating from public schools with more than 24 credits.

 

My younger daughter is in a public charter and will have 6 credits this year and next, which is the standard. She's taking one full credit summer school class to get ahead in math. I suspect most college bound kids are graduating with a few more credits than that 24 credit standard.

Well, I'll admit I'm in the "less is more" camp, so take my comments with that in mind.

 

But I don't know "many" kids graduating with more than 24 credits, or "most" graduating with a few more than 24. I know and have worked with lots of teens in my area over the last 15 years that I've been raising teens, and even with PSEO, not many go over that, due to wanting a light 12th grade year or whatever. Only one I've known who did all PSEO (even lived in a dorm in 11th), and even at full-time it's usual to take only 12-16 college credits per semester, so 6-8 high school credits.

 

I just like to chime in for those parents who worry that they have to do more-more-more. My oldest's colleges were more interested in what he did besides having his nose in a book, than they were interested in advanced courses. He did participate in UMPTYMP one year and PSEO one year, and he tested well, so all colleges he applied for were interested in him, but after those academic achievements were on board, they wanted to see other things.

 

Julie

[*LC]

Just as a couple of examples, I awarded my son 1 credit for AP Calc BC and 1 credit for AP Chemistry. Had he taken these classes at our local public school, he would have been awarded 2 credits for competing BC calc in one school year, and 1.5 credits for the chemistry.

 

As an example of all schools (both homeschools and public schools) can be different, my public school senior has taken both AP calculus BC and AP chemistry and both count as only 1 credit on her transcript. They were both completed in 1 school year, and that is the only option for completing them at this school.

[snowbeltmom]

As an example of all schools (both homeschools and public schools) can be different, my public school senior has taken both AP calculus BC and AP chemistry and both count as only 1 credit on her transcript. They were both completed in 1 school year, and that is the only option for completing them at this school.

That's why I don't think colleges pay that much attention to actual credit hours. I can't imagine that an adcom would think that our kids accomplished less because they will not have as many credits as they would have had had they attended my local public school.

[Kendall]

Thank you so much everyone for the information and encouragement.