Accelerated = honors?

[Chez J]

Starting to plan for keeping records, managing transcripts, etc.

 

Technically, my dd will be 8th grade age next year. We have no plans to graduate her early. She is enrolled as a 9th grade student in a uni-model school.

 

Would being accelerated a grade equal an honors level course? So, if she takes high school English I in 8th grade, would I call that honors? How do you calculate honors in a gpa? I ask because many accelerated classes will transition to AP in a few years. If she took algebra 1 in 7th grade, can I call that honors algebra 1? Seems like honors to me!

 

Thanks for insight!

[8filltheheart]

I would not call a class honors simply bc a student is accelerated. Honors designations are supposed to based on course content, not the age of the individual taking the class.

 

Fwiw, I don't use honors designation on any of my kids course titles. Nor do I weight their grades. Honors is one of those terms that is ambiguous in meaning and on a homeschool transcript by itself is probably ignored by admissions. I stipulate that grades are unweighted. Admissions offices have their own formulas for GPA calculations often unweighting and weighting grades accordingly.

 

By including course descriptions, the level of difficulty of a course is discernible. Also, level of achievement is reflected by students taking higher level courses at a young age.

[Matryoshka]

Honors is often about the amount and depth of material covered in the class, not when you take it.

 

Once in high school, kids often take classes ahead with upperclassmen. If a freshman takes the regular Chemistry class, it still doesn't cover as much as what the Honors Chemistry class., even if he took it a year younger than "normal." If a freshman took regular Algebra II (much advanced for age), he'd still have trouble moving up to honors Precalc, because less is covered in the regular class than the honors class - the pace is slower, the problem sets would be easier.

 

Since we homeschoolers tend to finish books and do all the problems more than public schools, I'd bet a lot of what we do would be counted as honors there. It's just hard to figure out.

 

On the other hand, some homeschool curricula tout "honors" supplements that are imho laughable. MUS Algebra isn't even all of Algebra I - they don't even get to the quadratic equation! Almost half - at least a third - of what is covered in a standard Algebra I class is in their Algebra II. Adding their "honors" unit doesn't change that - it's just more problems. This is not a slam to MUS in general - I rather wish I'd used MUS at least as a supplement with my dd who needed a bit of a slower pace and more explanation. But she could not have gone on from there into a standard Algebra II class that wasn't MUS - she would have needed the second half of Algebra I (which is actually what she's taking in school this year - Algebra I part B - as we didn't end up getting to the end of our Algebra I book, and yes, she needed quadratics).

 

But in a nutshell, accelerated does not automatically equal honors.

[regentrude]

Just because the student is a year younger does not make a normal course honors. It is content, depth and workload of a course that gives the honors designation. A regular algebra 1 course remains a regular algebra 1 course, even if taken by a 7th grader - but you can put algebra 1 on the high school transcript, even if the student was younger than high school age.

 

I would reserve an honors label for an outside course that carries such a designation.

[Chez J]

Okay, thanks. You are all in agreement. :D

[Chez J]

By including course descriptions, the level of difficulty of a course is discernible. Also, level of achievement is reflected by students taking higher level courses at a young age.

 

 

Would you mind posting what you mean by difficulty discernable in the course description. Could you post just on example? Maybe from English?

 

I get the other part. What you mean is that taking pre-calc in 10th grade will demonstrate accelerated achievement.

 

 

You want to be careful that no one undoes a grade skip by not enrolling a gradeskipped child in honors/accel/ap with the top students in the school.

 

 

What do you mean here?

[regentrude]

Would you mind posting what you mean by difficulty discernable in the course description. Could you post just on example? Maybe from English?

 

There are many different ways to do this. Your course description might contain a list of major literary works that were studied. Or it may contain a list of the college level TC lectures your student used. Or the number and type of writing assignments.

For math course, state the textbook used and a list of topics covered - completing the entire AoPS Intro to Algebra for algebra 1 is more than enough for honors and will be obvious to anybody who is knowledgable.

 

I do not need to give our course a label, because the person evaluating has access to the detailed information if he wishes.

 

As an example, my DD's 9th grade English and History course description might look like this: (btw, she skipped a grade and would chronologically have been in 8th grade - but that is not relevant for the transcript. Anybody who cares could calculate this from the DOB. But you don't get any points for being younger, you still compete with other high school seniors for admission, no matter what your age.)

Course Description: English 9/ Ancient History 1 credit English, 1 credit History

Textbook: A Short History of Western Civilizations by John Harrison and Richard Sullivan, Ch. 3-13

 

Major works of Literature studied:

The Iliad Homer (translated by Fitzgerald)

The Odyssey Homer (translated by Fitzgerald)

Histories Herodotus

Antigone Sophocles

Oedipus Rex Sophocles

Oedipus on Colonos Sophocles

Electra Euripides

Poetry Sappho

The Aeneid Vergil

Metamorphoses Ovid

Trial and death of Socrates Plato

 

Audio lectures by the Teaching Company:

Each college level lecture is 30 minutes in length and taught by Prof. Elizabeth Vandiver

The Iliad (12 lectures), The Odyssey (12 lectures), The Aeneid (12 lectures)

Greek Tragedy (11 selected lectures), Classical Mythology (24 lectures)

 

Evaluation: writing assignments

Oral presentation Greek and Roman Architecture

Participated in National Mythology Exam (Bronze Medal)

[snowbeltmom]

 

Technically, my dd will be 8th grade age next year. We have no plans to graduate her early. She is enrolled as a 9th grade student in a uni-model school.

 

Thanks for insight!

Chez, Is your dd still interested in playing for a Div I or Div II school in college? If so, from what I have been told by the guidance counselor at my public high school, you need to be careful with the official grade level assigned for your dd.

 

Is she officially enrolled as a 9th grader at the uni-model school, or is she officially an 8th grader taking 9th grade classes? If she is officially enrolled as a 9th grader, but you don't plan on her graduating for 5 years, that may pose a problem with the NCAA.

 

I don't know if this NCAA rule applies across all sports, or if it is just applicable to my kids' sport.

[Nan in Mass]

I designated some classes honours on my son's transcsript. I counted any class that was taken at the community college as honours, and I counted as honours any class that included extensive time traveling or living elsewhere, because those were fairly intense learning situations. Sometimes family vacations were part of a class (say, a month crewing on a sailboat as the practicum part of a sailing course or driving around the US in a camper as the field trip part of US History) but I didn't count those as honours, being far more ordinary experiences. Basically, I picked something that had very clear guidelines, short enough to write out the whole rational for each on the one-page transcript itself as notes describing the superscripts. So at the bottom of the transcript, I had 1-Designated honours because..., 2-Designated honours because..., 3-Designated honours because taken at community college, etc. Not great, but I decided early on that I was going to try to make a one page transcript reflected as much of my son's unique educations as possible while still sticking to a more or less standard transcript and still making it possible to read at a glance. I happened to want to emphasize my children's uniqueness rather than emphasize their normalness. (Both approaches have their advantages.) At the same time, the only real use for the transcript that I could foresee was for colleges to be able to compare at a glance my child's education with other students' educations, which required using a standard format. Designating some classes as honours was a nod to that standard format. Left to my own devices, I would not have even tried to stuff my children into the transcript box. Doing so without misrepresenting them was a challenge grin. Colleges might just have ignored my transcripts and judged my sons from their SAT scores and their community college transcripts. Nobody complained about what I sent, even when the transcript wasn't in the form specified on the admissions website.

 

Nan

[Crimson Wife]

I would say that certain math series qualify as "honors" math courses. AOPS and Singapore DM/NEM are much more challenging than the typical math series. If I decide to use Kiselev's Geometry series that will be listed as "honors" geometry as well. The eIMACS classes definitely look rigorous as well if any of my kids wind up going that route.

 

A student can be both accelerated and on the "honors" track (this is what I'm aiming for with my kids) but not all accelerated kids are taking "honors" classes. My district chooses to accelerate the bright kids in grades 7-10 rather than offering "honors" classes, and that's one reason why I homeschool. Eleventh grade is far too long to wait for using intellectually challenging materials with a bright kid.

[Chez J]

Chez, Is your dd still interested in playing for a Div I or Div II school in college? If so, from what I have been told by the guidance counselor at my public high school, you need to be careful with the official grade level assigned for your dd.

 

Is she officially enrolled as a 9th grader at the uni-model school, or is she officially an 8th grader taking 9th grade classes? If she is officially enrolled as a 9th grader, but you don't plan on her graduating for 5 years, that may pose a problem with the NCAA.

 

I don't know if this NCAA rule applies across all sports, or if it is just applicable to my kids' sport.

 

 

Yes she is. She is only taking a couple of classes at the uni-model school. I have been very careful to keep calling her her grade to anyone who asks. One course is algebra 1 for 8th grade, which she took as a 7th grader. But, your post makes me think I need to stay on a part-time enrollment with just a couple of classes, not the whole schedule.

[Chez J]

There are many different ways to do this. Your course description might contain a list of major literary works that were studied. Or it may contain a list of the college level TC lectures your student used. Or the number and type of writing assignments.

For math course, state the textbook used and a list of topics covered - completing the entire AoPS Intro to Algebra for algebra 1 is more than enough for honors and will be obvious to anybody who is knowledgable.

 

I do not need to give our course a label, because the person evaluating has access to the detailed information if he wishes.

 

As an example, my DD's 9th grade English and History course description might look like this: (btw, she skipped a grade and would chronologically have been in 8th grade - but that is not relevant for the transcript. Anybody who cares could calculate this from the DOB. But you don't get any points for being younger, you still compete with other high school seniors for admission, no matter what your age.)

 

Thank you for posting that! Extremely helpful. I can see what you mean about the rigor showing in the course description.

 

Glad I started this process early. There is more work than I thought.

[Chez J]

Chez, Is your dd still interested in playing for a Div I or Div II school in college? If so, from what I have been told by the guidance counselor at my public high school, you need to be careful with the official grade level assigned for your dd.

 

Is she officially enrolled as a 9th grader at the uni-model school, or is she officially an 8th grader taking 9th grade classes? If she is officially enrolled as a 9th grader, but you don't plan on her graduating for 5 years, that may pose a problem with the NCAA.

 

I don't know if this NCAA rule applies across all sports, or if it is just applicable to my kids' sport.

 

After sleeping on this tread, I came to more questions.

 

Are you saying a student who takes a high school course in middle school can't count that for NCAA core course? So, if she takes French III next year as an 8th grader, and AP French as a 9th grader, I can't count the French before 9th grade? In Texas, foreign language is supposed to be one of the courses you can pull forward from middle school.

 

This guidance counselor part is going to be very, very hard!

[Chez J]

Now we have a couple different tracks on this thread concerning acceleration and record keeping: course descriptions showing rigor and NCAA eligibility. I am so glad I am working with this a year ahead so I know what I am doing!

 

So, for college admissions I create a transcript on one page that shows grade level, course taken, gpa etc. Then I also create a separate page that lists each course description, kind of like the course catalogs I see on our local high school website.

 

For NCAA, I know I need to keep track of textbook ISBNs.

 

I also need to create some sort of template for awards/honors. Resume??? Create a small area on the transcript??? Other ideas????

 

What am I forgetting???

[snowbeltmom]

Are you saying a student who takes a high school course in middle school can't count that for NCAA core course?

I have received conflicting information regarding this issue depending on which rep. I spoke with at the NCAA. One rep actually told me that I could count the classes my son took in 6th grade. (This same rep also told me that PA Homeschooling classes are not approved by the NCAA, which turned out to be incorrect.) The NCAA website states that they will accept some classes taken in 8th grade.

But this wasn't the issue I was addressing in my prior post.

 

It might be easier if I explained the situation with my middle son that addresses the issue. Our high school permits students to participate in extracurricular activities provided they take at least one class at our high school. My boys wanted to play doubles together on the high school tennis team this year. My middle son is officially an 8th grader, but is working ahead of grade level and could have taken one of his classes at the high school. However, the guidance counselor told me that in order to enroll my son at the high school, I would need to declare him a 9th grader. The NCAA states that you have to graduate high school in 4 years (at least for tennis) and the clock would have started ticking this year for my son if I had enrolled him for a class at our public school because he would have been officially declared a 9th grader by our public school. Since I did not want my son to be considered a 9th grader by the NCAA, my boys did not play high school tennis this year.

 

If my middle son did not want to play college tennis, declaring him a 9th grader so he could take a high school class and play doubles with his brother would not have been a problem because the college adcoms would not have have cared and I could have maintained my official status of an 8th grader for him.

[SkateLeft]

To muddy the waters a bit further, keep in mind that colleges differ in what they'll accept to meet admissions requirements.

 

For example, some universities will not accept any course taken for high school credit prior to 8th grade. So while your student may have completed Algebra 1 in 7th grade, they may still need three (or four) more years of math to meet admissions requirements.

 

My recently graduated oldest daughter was also accelerated. She spent two full years as a dual enrolled student and will be 17 this summer. I really recommend keeping an eye on the admissions requirements of the colleges that your child might be interested in, so you don't find yourself scrambling near the end to make sure your child has enough credits, if you're counting high school courses in middle school.

 

Oh, and as others have said, I didn't label any courses as honors, even her dual enrollment classes. I also didn't weight the GPA on her transcript.

[Chez J]

Thank you for that. Yes, she will still have at least 3 more math credits, including AP Calculus in 11th grade. I may add statistics in 12th grade. Not sure if I have to. Like you said, I will plan that according to college requirements when I get closer to that time.

[Crimson Wife]

The accelerated track in our district has AP Calc in 11th and "Post-AP Math" in 12th. Not 100% sure what topics are covered in that class.

[Nan in Mass]

A few things to think about:

 

You might want to copy the table of contents for any textbook as reference for later or in case somebody wants to see it or has questions about what was covered.

 

If your child is going to apply early decision or early action to colleges, then not much of senior year will show. It is best to have APs or CC classes before then. In other words, don't wait until senior year to do AP or community college classes or take the SAT or SAT2s. (Doesn't sound like you will have a problem with this, but it is worth thinking about other awards and activities as well.)

 

It isn't a bad idea to take SAT2 subject tests immediately after any class in which they are offered. Some colleges ask for these (not APs) from homeschoolers in order to confirm the mummy transcript. Even if they don't, they can strengthen a transcript.

 

Keep track of everything your child does, just in case you need it and in order to be able to write out the course descriptions, transcripts, and resumés later. Different colleges want it in different forms. Just because you have been good about updating your documents as you go along doesn't mean you are out of the woods, unfortunately. It also pays to keep a log as you go along as well so you can construct various sorts of records later as needed. If you only have time for one thing, opt for that log and xeroxing the table of contents and collecting a work sample for each class (in case you need a portfolio) and a program or something for each activity. You can drop them in a box, if you can't manage a better system. At least that way they will all be in one place, in chronological order.

 

Top students usually have at least 4 years each of math, science, social studies, English, and foreign language in high school, whether the colleges actually list it as a requirement or not. This gets tricky when you have an accelerated student who doesn't necessarily want to go as far as possible in all of those subjects because the time frame of "high school" becomes fuzzy. Different colleges define high school different ways, and you have the NCAA to deal with as well. Some colleges want to see only the last four years of school on the transcript. That means that if your child got through diff eq's in 10th grade and is planning on being a writer and doesn't WANT to take any more math, it looks like there is a problem. In my admittedly very very limited experience, either you will be dealing with schools who have seen so many out-of-the-box students that their application process is set up to deal with them, or you will be dealing with small colleges which will tell you what to do, or you will be dealing with big universities with rigid application guide lines who want your child and therefore will make exceptions provided they have enough material to assess their capabilities and outside verification of those abilities. When dealing with the latter, you may be better off just sending your material and not asking what to do because you are likely to have trouble reaching somebody knowledgable and even if you do, that person may not be the person who actually looks at your child's application so anything they say may be less than useful.

 

I know nothing about the NCAA except that they are exactly the type of organization that causes the most problems for my family because we are highly likely not to fit in their box, even when they think the box is generously sized, and they are too busy to build us a custom box.

 

It is worth thinking about what it takes to convince an organization (say a college) to build you a custom box. The organization has to want you, which means not only do you have to be desirable to that particular organization, but they have to know you are desirable. That means they need to know ABOUT you - either you have to have been assessed by another well-known organization and that information has to be accessable (like test scores or well-known contests), or you have to become well known to the general public (invent a cure for malaria or publish a well-known book), or you have to become well known to someone inside the organization so they can advocate for you (get to know some professors, for example).

 

HTH

Nan

[Chez J]

Thanks for all that, Nan.

 

In 6th grade, I started keeping a report card because summer camps want one when we apply. So, I have that down. I also started keeping annual binders into which I put the graded tests and final graded papers for the year.

 

I didn't think of the TOC and ISBN numbers, so I am grateful to get that suggestion before high school. Another thing to add to my practice run this year. :D

 

I am planning to have DD take a few SAT2s. Math and science for sure. I think math comes after algebra 2, so that will be when dd is 9th grade. So, next year will be a good year for me to research where and how to sign her up.

[snowbeltmom]

 

I am planning to have DD take a few SAT2s. Math and science for sure. I think math comes after algebra 2, so that will be when dd is 9th grade. So, next year will be a good year for me to research where and how to sign her up.

 

If your dd is strong in math, the Math II Subject Test would be the best test to take. That exam tests math up through and including pre-calc. While some STEM programs will accept either of the math Subject Tests, other colleges will only accept the Math II level SAT II.

[Chez J]

The top math track in the high schools here has this sequence:

 

7th A1, 8th G, 9th A2, 10th Calc 1&2 11th Calc 3 & Diff Eq 12th Special Topics or something from a nearby college

 

The high schools that don't have that great a math dept or as many techie parents have:

 

8th A1, 9th G & A2, 10th Calc 1 &2, 11th Calc 3 & Diff Eq independent study 12th independent study for the top 0.5%

 

Many will take Programming and Stats earlier than senior year from the school, depending on how the district handles science acceleration. Some will allow top students to skip Regent's level and take AP, others require both.

 

The top 25% will string out, with some taking PreCalc prior to Calc, some taking PreCalc and College Alg/Trig prior to Calc, and some taking Calc AB.

 

Thank you for that. DD will likely have 7th A1, 8th G, 9th A2, 10th pre-calc, 11th AP Calc, 12th ????? Lots of time to figure that one out. I looked at the EPGY website. They have lots of options!

 

I called our local middle school. They have 1 boy taking algebra in 7th grade, and he goes to the high school to take it. :/ She did say more take a1 in 8th, but not that many. I also asked about chemistry for 8th grade. The woman said none take it before high school.

 

DD will take: 7th Int. Phy and Chem, 8th Chem, 9th Bio, 10th AP Chem, 11th AP Phy B, 12th AP Phy C. If she were in our public school, she would get 9th Bio, 10th Chem, 11th Physics, 12 AP science.

 

It confirmed my decision to homeschool!

[Chez J]

oops! Browser went wonky on me.

[8filltheheart]

 

DD will take: 7th Int. Phy and Chem, 8th Chem, 9th Bio, 10th AP Chem, 11th AP Phy B, 12th AP Phy C.

 

 

 

I haven't been paying that much attention, so I may be off on the particulars, but I think the physic b exam is changing to a 2 yr course or something?? I know something about it is changing. I'm sure someone can chime in.

[Chez J]

It is changing, but it is still a one-year course. You have to choose, just like with the AP physics C.

[Chez J]

Can I just say, "y'all are awesome!!!!!" :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

You have talked me through so much!

 

Humbled at how much y'all know and how much I still have to learn.

[Brigid in NC]

I haven't been paying that much attention, so I may be off on the particulars, but I think the physic b exam is changing to a 2 yr course or something?? I know something about it is changing. I'm sure someone can chime in.

 

 

AP Physics B will be split into two one-year courses beginning in 2014-2015. Here's some info: AP Physics 1 and 2. And an FAQ.

2013 PhysicsFAQs.pdf

2013 PhysicsFAQs.pdf

[EKS]

Even though I am convinced (after homeschooling high school for two years and having my son in a "rigorous" b&m private high school for a year) that what we did when we homeschooled was honors level, I am not giving an honors designation to any course that I am issuing credit for. This includes the Derek Owens courses that my son did the honors version of.

[Chez J]

NM I figured it out.