About money and private colleges: Tell me truly?

[Jenny in Florida]

We're poking around making preliminary lists and requesting information for my son, who will graduate from high school either this time next year or one year later. (He'll easily finish his requirements by next spring but will be young and possibly not ready to audition into the kind of performing arts program he wants. So, he may stall for another year.)

 

He has several good possibilities in state, both public and private. And he's identified a couple of only-if-they-showered-him-with-money campuses that I think are worth an application, because he has a strong enough hook that they just might actually want him pretty badly.

 

And then there is one more school that actually seems absolutely perfect, except for the following facts: It's 1,000 miles from home. It's very expensive. Although it might be a reasonably good bet for admission academically, he's not special enough (I don't think) to merit them wooing him. And, again, while he's certainly talented and hard working enough to be successful in his desired major, he's not likely to be seen as a star worthy of recruitment.

 

I've run the estimated net cost calculator on the college's website, and laughed out loud at the results. There is simply no way in the world we could pay that amount for all four years, let alone annually. We are currently struggling every month to make the payments on the loans we took out to get our daughter through to her B.A. Even if we were willing to take on more debt, I don't think we would qualify for more loans. (In fact, we did not qualify in my daughter's last year.)

 

Still, the school is so incredibly enticing for him . . .

 

But I don't want him to go through the process and get admitted and then have his heart broken because we can't pay . . .

 

So, I need you all to tell me, truthfully, honestly, how common is it that colleges actually come through with money for middle class folks who don't look "poor" on paper but genuinely can't foot the bill for those kinds of expenses? I keep reading books and articles that assure me it happens "all the time," but does it? Has it happened for your kid? The child of someone you actually know? Or, on the flip side, how many kids do you know who tried it, did everything right and still had to turn down an otherwise great fit because the finances just wouldn't fall into place?

[Hoggirl]

Is the pricey school one that requires the CSS Profile as well as the FAFSA?

 

I really have no idea about the answer to your question, but I will say that our school's GC believes that schools that use the CSS Profile tend to be more generous with money. My understanding is that this form allows one to elaborate significantly on details related to one's finances.

 

The first rule on college confidential is to "love thy safety." I think as long as you make it clear to your ds that the stars would have to align perfectly for the enticing school to work, you should allow him to go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But, you do need to be honest with him about the realities of the situation, being as specific as possible. E.g. you would have to get $XXX for this to be able to work.

 

Without knowing your son's "hook," or having a clearer picture of *exactly* what his stats are, it is challenging to make any predictions. I certainly understand wanting to keep those private. And, even if we knew them, if it's a tippy top school it would all be pure speculation anyway. I would say that he would need to be in the top quartile of a school's stats.

 

Not very helpful. :( Sorry.

[Vida Winter]

You may still be able to receive substantial merit aid. My dd took the ACT three times to bump her score high enough to receive a great deal of merit aid from an out of state public university. She will still need to pay for her room/board + some of her books. She received three different merit scholarships. We are still waiting to hear about a fourth one. It required quite a bit of work on her part (essays, resume, etc.) but it paid off. She will be in the honors college of the university, and we are hoping that it will be like a private school within the larger school. The university itself was not a reach school -- she could have been admitted to schools with a much more competitive admissions process. If we had it to do over again, I would have had her apply to at least three or four different schools, including private. As it was she only applied to one; she got lucky but it could have also gone badly.

[Gwen in VA]

I think he should apply, with the understanding that his being accepted is only 50% of what is required for him to go -- significant aid has to rain down from the sky before he can send in the acceptance postcard.

 

We have had money (merit aid) rain down on my kids, so I am a firm believer that kids should apply to wherever, with the firm understanding that acceptance doesn't guarantee that they can go.

 

One of my children had to say no to his top choice because of finances, whic was hard, but he was able to attend a college (not his #1 choice) that we couldn't have afforded because of merit aid. You never know.

[Beth in OH]

 

So, I need you all to tell me, truthfully, honestly, how common is it that colleges actually come through with money for middle class folks who don't look "poor" on paper but genuinely can't foot the bill for those kinds of expenses?

 

First, make sure the school offers merit aid. Some really great programs (especially in the arts) are need based only, which often hurts such middle class folks.

 

I keep reading books and articles that assure me it happens "all the time," but does it?

 

I know lots of kids for whom this has happened, but--often their families are still paying a lot of money. It is not uncommon for a good merit aid package (academic plus arts) to be about $25,000 on an annual bill of $60,000 (including room/board).

 

Or, on the flip side, how many kids do you know who tried it, did everything right and still had to turn down an otherwise great fit because the finances just wouldn't fall into place?

 

Many. It's an unfairness of life.

[AK_Mom4]

Yes. Dd19's first choice school did not rain down any aid. But at her second choice school, the department head went to the financial aid folks and kicked up a stir and - like magic - financial aid appeared. Enough to cover tuition and when combined with some in-department work opportunities to cover expenses, she was able to afford a school that was quite a ways out of our budget.

 

But it took intervention from the department to get there. I would recommend something similar if your son really wants that "reach" school - he should make contact and make it clear that financial aid will be required.

[Candid]

Balance! Because it often depends from school to school and from family to family, I would encourage you to pick a couple or financial reach schools, but also include some schools that you know you can afford in the mix.

[Jane in NC]

May I elaborate on Beth's post?

 

When we read about merit aid packages, we may hear that merit aid covers 50, 75 even all of the tuition cost. It is the rare merit aid package that produces the so called "free ride", 100% of tuition, room and board.

 

The cost of room and board really varies. This caught me by surprise when my son was applying to schools; I even remember starting a thread on it. Looking at the IPEDS College Navigator, I see that UNC CH has a typical room and board charge of $9734 annually. Compare that to Boston University at $13,190 or Beloit College at $7862. Multiply times four and you see why my mantra is Save, Save, Save.

 

That said, I do think that students should apply to a variety of colleges (public and private) to see where the chips fall. Financial aid (including merit) is a black box. I know several people for whom private colleges were more economical than their public options.

 

Slightly off topic ETA: What's with the variation of fees or "other" expenses at colleges? According to the College Navigator, UNC-CH lists $4486 under "other". Compare that to $1850 at William and Mary or $1300 at Beloit. Apparently one needs a lot of "other" at Chapel Hill!!

[8filltheheart]

Yes. Dd19's first choice school did not rain down any aid. But at her second choice school, the department head went to the financial aid folks and kicked up a stir and - like magic - financial aid appeared. Enough to cover tuition and when combined with some in-department work opportunities to cover expenses, she was able to afford a school that was quite a ways out of our budget.

 

But it took intervention from the department to get there. I would recommend something similar if your son really wants that "reach" school - he should make contact and make it clear that financial aid will be required.

 

Would you mind elaborating on this a little? How did the dept become involved? I could see this scenario with our ds where he would bring a lot to the dept and the dept wanting him, but he might not necessarily make the cut for aid from the "main office" perspective.

[Nan in Mass]

Jenny - Make sure you look carefully at the terms for keeping any scholarships that your son does get, and whether the school says they will continue to support your son at the same level. My son's scholarship offers basically required him to stay off academic probation, but there are ones out there that require the student to maintain a 3.5 gpa, which is difficult at some schools in some programs.

Nan

[lisabees]

Jenny, every school is different. I think more often than not, schools DO NOT come through with money for a student. The college process is a game. If you learn how to play your cards, your ds's chances will increase in attending a school he likes.

 

First, understand how generous a school is with financial aid and merit aid. If you need both, don't even consider the schools which are notoriously bad at one or the other. We don't qualify for f/a, but certainly can't afford $60,000. There were schools that were great fits for ds, but were knocked off the table immediately because they offered no merit. This Kiplinger's list helped us (Franklin and Marshall no longer offers merit). Note that there is a list for universities as well.

 

Also, check College Confidential threads about school known for good merit. What you are looking for is a school that offers a good amount of merit to a good amount of students - not a school that offers $5,000 to a handful of students. Plenty of schools offer $15,000-$25,000 to a large amount of students. Remember, if your son is clearly in the top 25% of the school's stats, his chances are greater. And make sure he has something to offer the school that they would really want. What specific talents can he contribute to the school's community? If he can clearly demonstrate this in his essay, during his visits and inteview, the better off he will be. Make sure he starts an email exchange with the local admissions rep assigned to your state. This is the person who will fight for your son's admission. You need the rep to like your ds enough to suggest merit, as well as admission.

 

One more thing. Cast a wide net if you are counting on financial help. Out of the 9 schools ds applied to, only 5 offered merit. And you know what? Only one surprised us. I knew from the stats, that the chances for merit were less likely at these schools, but we gave it a go anyway.

 

I cannot give advice and insider information on financial aid. But I can tell you that I know plenty of people who didn't learn how to play the college game, and their kids were sorely disappointed because the family couldn't afford their schools. They ended up with last minute options. And not ones they were originally happy about.

[TranquilMind]

'lisabees':

 

Jenny, every school is different. I think more often than not, schools DO NOT come through with money for a student. The college process is a game. If you learn how to play your cards, your ds's chances will increase in attending a school he likes.

 

 

 

What irks me is that they still get all of your very personal financial information to sell and share all over the planet - and you might get nothing in return! Not a good bargain, but with their nasty little deal of requiring all your personal information before your KID can get MERIT scholarships (I mean, hello....merit? What does MY tax return have to do with HIS/HER MERIT??). Just not cool.

 

If I know nothing will come of it, I do not want to be sharing any personal information.

 

 

First, understand how generous a school is with financial aid and merit aid. If you need both, don't even consider the schools which are notoriously bad at one or the other. We don't qualify for f/a, but certainly can't afford $60,000. There were schools that were great fits for ds, but were knocked off the table immediately because they offered no merit. This Kiplinger's list helped us (Franklin and Marshall no longer offers merit). Note that there is a list for universities as well.

 

 

 

How did we EVER get to $60,000? My parents' first HOUSE cost $6,000. My college cost maybe three grand a year, while I worked full time. Not THAT long ago.

 

 

Also, check College Confidential threads about school known for good merit. What you are looking for is a school that offers a good amount of merit to a good amount of students - not a school that offers $5,000 to a handful of students. Plenty of schools offer $15,000-$25,000 to a large amount of students. Remember, if your son is clearly in the top 25% of the school's stats, his chances are greater. And make sure he has something to offer the school that they would really want. What specific talents can he contribute to the school's community? If he can clearly demonstrate this in his essay, during his visits and inteview, the better off he will be. Make sure he starts an email exchange with the local admissions rep assigned to your state. This is the person who will fight for your son's admission. You need the rep to like your ds enough to suggest merit, as well as admission.

 

One more thing. Cast a wide net if you are counting on financial help. Out of the 9 schools ds applied to, only 5 offered merit. And you know what? Only one surprised us. I knew from the stats, that the chances for merit were less likely at these schools, but we gave it a go anyway

 

 

 

Will check, and thanks.

 

I cannot give advice and insider information on financial aid. But I can tell you that I know plenty of people who didn't learn how to play the college game, and their kids were sorely disappointed because the family couldn't afford their schools. They ended up with last minute options. And not ones they were originally happy about.

 

 

I don't know how ANYONE can afford them, other than the top 1%. The rest of us have to eat, support our households and other kids, and their activities, pay medical costs (going up 100 -400%, I just read) and all that.

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't know how ANYONE can afford them, other than the top 1%.

 

I've been musing about that, too, which is one of the things that prompted this thread.

 

I'm doing everything I've ever seen recommended. I've read literally every book in our county library about getting into and paying for college (except that I haven't read through every one of the "big book" guides). I have accounts on www.collegeboard.com and www.collegedata.com and check in on www.collegeconfidential.com fairly regularly. Thus far, we've made a list of 13 schools, ranging from somewhat selective state campuses to more selective out-of-state private colleges, with a variety in between. We've verified that each of them offers one or both of the majors in which my son is interested and that his GPA and test scores make him a creditable and sometimes extremely attractive candidate.

 

He's contacted each of them for information, and we're starting to plan visits to at least the in-state campuses.

 

I've also run the handy-dandy net cost estimator on each website, though, and it's terrifying. Our income puts us in what might possibly be considered the upper middle class, I suppose. We don't own our home. We have no investments to speak of. We are still paying off two moderately-priced used cars. We take a vacation about every three years, maybe. I don't own jewelry. We recently turned off cable and the landline. We had to take out loans to pay for my daughter's college expenses a few years ago, and nowadays we can't actually pay our monthly bills on what my husband brings home.

 

Nonetheless, our EFC is equal to between one-quarter and one-third of our annual income.

 

Who can do that? Who thinks that's reasonable or realistic?

[Jane in NC]

What irks me is that they still get all of your very personal financial information to sell and share all over the planet - and you might get nothing in return! Not a good bargain, but with their nasty little deal of requiring all your personal information before your KID can get MERIT scholarships (I mean, hello....merit? What does MY tax return have to do with HIS/HER MERIT??). Just not cool.

 

 

This is the first I have heard of colleges selling or sharing private financial information. Before sending tax returns to any colleges, I telephoned them to ask them about their document retention and destruction policy. No one admitted to selling documents! Please elaborate on your experience!

[lisabees]

The cost is crazy and I hope it changes soon. But I tell myself that college is not a right - it is privilege. The reason my younger kids aren't in private school is because we can't afford private school. The reason I don't drive an expensive car is because we can't afford an expensive car. The reason we don't take vacations is because our money goes to my kids' extracurriculars (and now college). It's just the way life is. The sooner I accepted that, the easier it was for me to understand. Public colleges are meant for the general public. Private colleges are businesses that many times leave the middle to upper-middle class in the dust. From a business standpoint, they owe us nothing,

 

Fair? Maybe not. But, unfortunately, so much of life isn't fair.

[lisabees]

This is the first I have heard of colleges selling or sharing private financial information. Before sending tax returns to any colleges, I telephoned them to ask them about their document retention and destruction policy. No one admitted to selling documents! Please elaborate on your experience!

 

 

:lurk5: I'll be listening, too. I've never heard of this.

[Hoggirl]

Did your ds take the PSAT this year? There are quite a few school that offer good merit money for National Merit Finalists. There is a link from CC, but I am not smart enough to put it here. :/ Not many privates listed on there, however. Is your ds wanting to major in music? UNT offers a full-ride for National Merit. I know this isn't private, but I thought I would throw that out there. My ds (barring anything crazy) should make National Merit next year, but he really isn't interested in the schools that offer anything much for it. He tends to prefer those with the $60,000 price tag that offer no merit money. Lol!

[AK_Mom4]

 

 

Would you mind elaborating on this a little? How did the dept become involved? I could see this scenario with our ds where he would bring a lot to the dept and the dept wanting him, but he might not necessarily make the cut for aid from the "main office" perspective.

 

 

In this case, the director for the jazz band travelled here to do a clinic. DD met him and played for him solo as well as in an ensemble. The director was impressed and made arrangements for her to send in her audition materials electronically (since flying there was too expensive) and then made arrangements to offer DD19 the top level scholarship available for out of state students.

 

So in her case, it was a matter of a director getting interested in her and recruiting her for his performing group.

[Jenny in Florida]

The cost is crazy and I hope it changes soon. But I tell myself that college is not a right - it is privilege. The reason my younger kids aren't in private school is because we can't afford private school. The reason I don't drive an expensive car is because we can't afford an expensive car. The reason we don't take vacations is because our money goes to my kids' extracurriculars (and now college). It's just the way life is. The sooner I accepted that, the easier it was for me to understand. Public colleges are meant for the general public. Private colleges are businesses that many times leave the middle to upper-middle class in the dust. From a business standpoint, they owe us nothing,

 

Fair? Maybe not. But, unfortunately, so much of life isn't fair.

 

I'd love for you to point out anywhere I said or suggested anything that contradicts this? Where did I say anyone "owed" us anything? Where did I suggest anything wasn't "fair?"

 

I'm simply flabbergasted that the "expected" financial contribution is so completely unrealistic and wondering if it's worth getting my son's hopes up by encouraging him to apply to a college that requires tuition so far out of the realm of possible for us.

 

And, for what it's worth, that EFC applies to public universities, too. Honestly, even that will be out of the question for this kid without significant financial assistance.

 

I kind of resent the implied lecture.

[Jenny in Florida]

Did your ds take the PSAT this year? There are quite a few school that offer good merit money for National Merit Finalists. There is a link from CC, but I am not smart enough to put it here. :/ Not many privates listed on there, however. Is your ds wanting to major in music? UNT offers a full-ride for National Merit. I know this isn't private, but I thought I would throw that out there. My ds (barring anything crazy) should make National Merit next year, but he really isn't interested in the schools that offer anything much for it. He tends to prefer those with the $60,000 price tag that offer no merit money. Lol!

 

 

In theory, my son is a sophomore this year. So, we'll have him do the PSAT next year, although he doesn't generally test especially well. He's one of those kids who over-thinks questions and tends to create scenarios in which two or three answers "could be" correct, if you read the question upside down and backwards . . . We've been working on test-taking skills and strategies, but I don't anticipate National Merit status for him.

[lisabees]

I'd love for you to point out anywhere I said or suggested anything that contradicts this? Where did I say anyone "owed" us anything? Where did I suggest anything wasn't "fair?"

 

I'm simply flabbergasted that the "expected" financial contribution is so completely unrealistic and wondering if it's worth getting my son's hopes up by encouraging him to apply to a college that requires tuition so far out of the realm of possible for us.

 

And, for what it's worth, that EFC applies to public universities, too. Honestly, even that will be out of the question for this kid without significant financial assistance.

 

I kind of resent the implied lecture.

 

Yikes. Sorry that came off as a lecture. It wasn't directed at you or anyone. I was just reflecting on what took a long time for me to come to terms with as I started our college search.

 

I apologize for offending. I usually try to word things so carefully.

[creekland]

I've been musing about that, too, which is one of the things that prompted this thread.

 

I'm doing everything I've ever seen recommended. I've read literally every book in our county library about getting into and paying for college (except that I haven't read through every one of the "big book" guides). I have accounts on www.collegeboard.com and www.collegedata.com and check in on www.collegeconfidential.com fairly regularly. Thus far, we've made a list of 13 schools, ranging from somewhat selective state campuses to more selective out-of-state private colleges, with a variety in between. We've verified that each of them offers one or both of the majors in which my son is interested and that his GPA and test scores make him a creditable and sometimes extremely attractive candidate.

 

He's contacted each of them for information, and we're starting to plan visits to at least the in-state campuses.

 

I've also run the handy-dandy net cost estimator on each website, though, and it's terrifying. Our income puts us in what might possibly be considered the upper middle class, I suppose. We don't own our home. We have no investments to speak of. We are still paying off two moderately-priced used cars. We take a vacation about every three years, maybe. I don't own jewelry. We recently turned off cable and the landline. We had to take out loans to pay for my daughter's college expenses a few years ago, and nowadays we can't actually pay our monthly bills on what my husband brings home.

 

Nonetheless, our EFC is equal to between one-quarter and one-third of our annual income.

 

Who can do that? Who thinks that's reasonable or realistic?

 

 

I agree that you are likely to do far better with CSS Profile schools as they'll take more into consideration. You should also be certain schools know your specific situation in case that makes any difference (it can, but doesn't always).

 

The reason the EFC turns out so high is because they expect you to have been saving for years with your income level (generic you/yours). When the situation is different, NPCs don't always work well.

 

With us, both of my older two made out well with private schools (and had others that were not as generous). With kids at school, it can vary. The geographic distance you mention could assist your guy as well as any hook. I'd be telling him to apply without falling in love/great expectations and see what happens. I've seen cases where aid was a really pleasant surprise and cases where it wasn't. It's worth a shot.

 

I'd love for you to point out anywhere I said or suggested anything that contradicts this? Where did I say anyone "owed" us anything? Where did I suggest anything wasn't "fair?"

 

I'm simply flabbergasted that the "expected" financial contribution is so completely unrealistic and wondering if it's worth getting my son's hopes up by encouraging him to apply to a college that requires tuition so far out of the realm of possible for us.

 

And, for what it's worth, that EFC applies to public universities, too. Honestly, even that will be out of the question for this kid without significant financial assistance.

 

I kind of resent the implied lecture.

 

 

I liked that post and did not see it as an implied lecture to anyone. It's what many of us without awesome finances repeat to ourselves as we go through the process and hope for the best.

[TranquilMind]

This is the first I have heard of colleges selling or sharing private financial information. Before sending tax returns to any colleges, I telephoned them to ask them about their document retention and destruction policy. No one admitted to selling documents! Please elaborate on your experience!

 

 

I really meant the whole "give us all your info" for the college process, not necessarily specific colleges.

 

From Fafsa site: This is a LOT of exposure here, and some is quite vague. What constitutes "Research"? Can large corporations get your information under the guise of "research"? Sure. I'd really, really rather not do this. I already know my daughter's information was sold EVERYWHERE by the mail we get. I gave birth AT HOME and still got all kinds of age-related mail. The only possible place was the Health Department, which clearly sold my information. I sign up for NOTHING. I am as private as you can get and didn't even have a Facebook until I had to get one for my daughter's school parent group.

 

Just not a big fan of personal information on my family being shared with anyone. It's no one's business. Of course, now, with the ACA, all of our personal health records are now available to the government as of 2014, so the last bastion of privacy is being breached.

 

Anyway, I could go on about this all night.

5. Will this information be shared with any other agency or entity? If so, with which agency or agencies/entities?

Yes. ED may disclose information in this system, without the consent of the individual, in accordance with the provisions of the Privacy Act. This includes disclosures under the routine uses listed in the Privacy Act System of Records notice if the disclosure is compatible with the purposes for which the record was collected. Specific routine use disclosures include the following:

• To the postsecondary institution that the applicant designates on the application

• To state agencies having agreements with the Secretary for the purposes of coordinating student aid and counseling students on FAFSA completion and postsecondary education

• To parent(s) of a dependent applicant or an applicant's spouse

• To local educational agencies for the purposes of coordinating student aid and counseling students on FAFSA completion and postsecondary education

• To secondary schools for the purposes of coordinating student aid and counseling students on FAFSA completion and postsecondary education

• For Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Advice Disclosure, to the Department of Justice and the Office of Management and Budget

• For Contract Disclosure

• For Litigation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Disclosures

• For Research Disclosure

• For Congressional Member Disclosure

• For Disclosure for Use By Other Law Enforcement Agencies

• For Enforcement Disclosure

• For Employment, Benefit, and Contracting Disclosure for decisions by the department and for decisions by other public agencies and professional organizations

• For Employee Grievance, Complaint, or Conduct Disclosure

• For Labor Organization Disclosure

• For Disclosure to OMB for Federal Credit Reform Act Support

• For Disclosures to third parties through legally authorized computer matching programs

• For Disclosure to DOJ

• For Disclosure to Consumer Reporting Agencies

• For Disclosure to third parties in the course of responding to breach of data

 

These disclosures may be made on a case-by-case basis. Where a computer matching agreement has been authorized, ED, consistent with the requirements of the Privacy Act, may disclose personally identifying information to another agency designated in the computer matching agreement.

 

If you request us to do so, in order to enable you to obtain information from other Federal agencies' records that will assist you in completing the FAFSA online we may disclose information from this system of records to other Federal agencies, such as the Internal Revenue Service. However, without your specific consent, we will not disclose your information for this purpose.

 

Records will only be disclosed in accordance with the provisions of the Privacy Act. Any contractor responsible for the operations of this Web site is held to the privacy and security requirements of the Department of Education in the handling of information collected through the Web site.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

In this case, the director for the jazz band travelled here to do a clinic. DD met him and played for him solo as well as in an ensemble. The director was impressed and made arrangements for her to send in her audition materials electronically (since flying there was too expensive) and then made arrangements to offer DD19 the top level scholarship available for out of state students.

 

So in her case, it was a matter of a director getting interested in her and recruiting her for his performing group.

What an amazing story! Thank you for sharing. Your dd must be quite a talented musician.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

I really meant the whole "give us all your info" for the college process, not necessarily specific colleges.

 

From Fafsa site: This is a LOT of exposure here, and some is quite vague. What constitutes "Research"? Can large corporations get your information under the guise of "research"? Sure. I'd really, really rather not do this. I already know my daughter's information was sold EVERYWHERE by the mail we get. I gave birth AT HOME and still got all kinds of age-related mail. The only possible place was the Health Department, which clearly sold my information. I sign up for NOTHING. I am as private as you can get and didn't even have a Facebook until I had to get one for my daughter's school parent group.

 

Just not a big fan of personal information on my family being shared with anyone. It's no one's business. Of course, now, with the ACA, all of our personal health records are now available to the government as of 2014, so the last bastion of privacy is being breached.

 

Anyway, I could go on about this all night.

5. Will this information be shared with any other agency or entity? If so, with which agency or agencies/entities?

Yes. ED may disclose information in this system, without the consent of the individual, in accordance with the provisions of the Privacy Act. This includes disclosures under the routine uses listed in the Privacy Act System of Records notice if the disclosure is compatible with the purposes for which the record was collected. Specific routine use disclosures include the following:

• To the postsecondary institution that the applicant designates on the application
  
• To state agencies having agreements with the Secretary for the purposes of coordinating student aid and counseling students on FAFSA completion and postsecondary education
  
• To parent(s) of a dependent applicant or an applicant's spouse
  
• To local educational agencies for the purposes of coordinating student aid and counseling students on FAFSA completion and postsecondary education
  
• To secondary schools for the purposes of coordinating student aid and counseling students on FAFSA completion and postsecondary education
  
• For Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Advice Disclosure, to the Department of Justice and the Office of Management and Budget
  
• For Contract Disclosure
  
• For Litigation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Disclosures
  
• For Research Disclosure
  
• For Congressional Member Disclosure
  
• For Disclosure for Use By Other Law Enforcement Agencies
  
• For Enforcement Disclosure
  
• For Employment, Benefit, and Contracting Disclosure for decisions by the department and for decisions by other public agencies and professional organizations
  
• For Employee Grievance, Complaint, or Conduct Disclosure
  
• For Labor Organization Disclosure
  
• For Disclosure to OMB for Federal Credit Reform Act Support
  
• For Disclosures to third parties through legally authorized computer matching programs
  
• For Disclosure to DOJ
  
• For Disclosure to Consumer Reporting Agencies
  
• For Disclosure to third parties in the course of responding to breach of data
  

These disclosures may be made on a case-by-case basis. Where a computer matching agreement has been authorized, ED, consistent with the requirements of the Privacy Act, may disclose personally identifying information to another agency designated in the computer matching agreement.

 

If you request us to do so, in order to enable you to obtain information from other Federal agencies' records that will assist you in completing the FAFSA online we may disclose information from this system of records to other Federal agencies, such as the Internal Revenue Service. However, without your specific consent, we will not disclose your information for this purpose.

 

Records will only be disclosed in accordance with the provisions of the Privacy Act. Any contractor responsible for the operations of this Web site is held to the privacy and security requirements of the Department of Education in the handling of information collected through the Web site.

 

Thank you for posting this. We have really struggled with the entire FAFSA issue ourselves. Our oldest was disqualified for merit scholarships at his university bc we didn't fill it out knowing he wouldn't qualify for financial aid. It is extremely frustrating that merit aid requires the FAFSA to be filled out. What you quoted here is alarming to me.

[creekland]

I guess I'm just not as concerned as others about disclosure of info, but we've never seen anything negative from filing the Fafsa or CSS (aside from the time it takes to complete it). The payoff in need-based aid has been well worth it for the opportunities my guys have received. We have yet to have a school require it for merit aid.

 

As for the specific mailing and ads (not college related)? The majority of those come from sites one visits on the web. A news story once told of a man finding out his daughter was pregnant from a Target mailing. He called Target to complain - then had to call back apologizing telling them that, "apparantly more has been going on in my house than I was aware of." Target admitted to getting tons of data from potential customers by getting info from their computer surfing - and they didn't have to sign up for anything. They know demographics of who's likely to buy coke, rice, and oodles of other things based upon where they visit online.

 

I refuse to give up my computer. ;) Sometimes I use the various targeted coupons, though not from Target. I'm sure others do the same. They were just the store in the news story.

[JFSinIL]

My son won top merit aide at one school - $32,000 a year! But the school cost over $50,000 figuring in room, board, travel.... we could not swing it. Other schools, again, top merit aide but the overall cost too high. Look at the info on each school's website - they will list how much money max. is available based on test scores, GPA, etc.

 

In our case, too, on-line calculators gave us a false idea of our EFC - it turned out to be almost TWICE the amount we thought it would be! So every school except one (where ds is now) based merit aide (top scholarships. then extra little grants) on our being able to come up with the EFC. Had we known our EFC would be as high as it was, we would NOT have had ds apply to Wooster, Gettysburg, Sewanee, etc - the top merit aide just was not enough.

 

One school wanted ds bad enough to offer extra grants and awards in addition to their top merit scholarship to get him (and prevent him attending a rival LAC nearby). We pay LESS than our EFC for him to attend Augustana in Il.

[Nan in Mass]

I think privacy has always been a privilege of the rich. Not that I like it. Not that I don't wish it weren't different. But I think this has been true here forever, to some extent. If you want help, you have to tell people about yourself so they can convince themselves that you really do need help. And they are likely to share that information for their own purposes, or at any rate, not be as careful about sharing it as you would be. This bothers me, but there are other privacy situations, monopoly-type ones, that bother me more.

 

Sigh. Some strange things make me feel rich. Being able to afford children's clothing that didn't come with advertisements plastered all over it. Not having to try to find modeling jobs for my children (people were always telling us we were crazy not to go this route). Sometimes, we have been rich enough to afford privacy. Some times we have not been. College aid is one of those areas where we are grateful for all the help we can get. With that help plus our savings, our sons have some great opportunities open to them. (Hopefully they will just take advantage of those opportunities. Hope hope hope...) Without the help, with just our savings, their opportunities would be much more limited. Those particular limits, considering that we could probably manage an in-state public school on the savings, would be ok EXCEPT that the state school either doesn't offer the right major or is going to significantly increase the chances that my somewhat quirky children won't finish their degree. So - we chose to make our financial situation public and request help. (It helps that I think probably a lot of our privacy is an illusion anyway, an illusion created by the sheer quantity of information gathered.) Sigh.

 

Nan

[Jane in NC]

Indeed to Nan and Creekland.

 

I look at aggregated government data regularly. For example, the data on the government site IPEDS (College Navigator) was extraordinarily helpful in determining which colleges were good fits for my son. I see the collected FAFSA data being used for these general purposes--not for individual sale of family income data.

 

Perhaps I am naive.

[creekland]

(It helps that I think probably a lot of our privacy is an illusion anyway, an illusion created by the sheer quantity of information gathered.) Sigh.

 

Nan

 

 

I think this too - even more after watching that news story...

[Tree Frog]

I agree that you are likely to do far better with CSS Profile schools as they'll take more into consideration. You should also be certain schools know your specific situation in case that makes any difference (it can, but doesn't always).

 

The reason the EFC turns out so high is because they expect you to have been saving for years with your income level (generic you/yours). When the situation is different, NPCs don't always work well.

 

With us, both of my older two made out well with private schools (and had others that were not as generous). With kids at school, it can vary. The geographic distance you mention could assist your guy as well as any hook. I'd be telling him to apply without falling in love/great expectations and see what happens. I've seen cases where aid was a really pleasant surprise and cases where it wasn't. It's worth a shot.

 

 

 

I liked that post and did not see it as an implied lecture to anyone. It's what many of us without awesome finances repeat to ourselves as we go through the process and hope for the best.

 

 

The bolded stood out to me. If we've saved a significant amount, wouldn't our EFC be higher? It seems like a catch-22. Save more, have a higher EFC. Save less, have a slightly lower (?) EFC that will require loans to make up the difference.

 

It's entirely possible I'm not understanding the process well. How does having a lot in savings help? Does it really decrease the amount of loans parents/students will ne expected to take? And how does the FAFSA distinguish between college savings meant for each child? We can't use all our savings on our first college bound child; we have 2 others to consider.

[Jane in NC]

 

The bolded stood out to me. If we've saved a significant amount, wouldn't our EFC be higher? It seems like a catch-22. Save more, have a higher EFC. Save less, have a slightly lower (?) EFC that will require loans to make up the difference.

 

It's entirely possible I'm not understanding the process well. How does having a lot in savings help? Does it really decrease the amount of loans parents/students will ne expected to take? And how does the FAFSA distinguish between college savings meant for each child? We can't use all our savings on our first college bound child; we have 2 others to consider.

 

FAFSA assumes that parents have been saving--whether or not they have. So I think that a certain amount of savings is expected.

 

People with substantial investments (including second homes) will have a greater EFC.

 

I have seen college financial advice suggesting that parents not save in order to reduce their EFC. I am not sure this is particularly good advice since we repeatedly read on this board and others that parents with minimal savings are still expected to cough up considerable sums. Part of the problem is that FAFSA looks at a salary as a progression. Parents who have been out of work or those who just received a significant pay increase/bonus appear to have been on a higher salary track than they were. FAFSA does not look at debts from medical expenses. These are things that parents need to tell colleges.

[creekland]

The bolded stood out to me. If we've saved a significant amount, wouldn't our EFC be higher? It seems like a catch-22. Save more, have a higher EFC. Save less, have a slightly lower (?) EFC that will require loans to make up the difference.

 

It's entirely possible I'm not understanding the process well. How does having a lot in savings help? Does it really decrease the amount of loans parents/students will ne expected to take? And how does the FAFSA distinguish between college savings meant for each child? We can't use all our savings on our first college bound child; we have 2 others to consider.

 

 

 

****Cross-posted with Jane on the first part... and she's likely more right than I am with investments and Fafsa. I remember more about CSS because hubby handles filling stuff out and I handle getting him the info. He does most on his own with Fafsa. I have quite a bit to pull together with CSS. ****

 

The EFC is higher based upon income BECAUSE the feds assume one has been saving all along. Whether they have been or not isn't a factor with FAFSA as far as we can tell (unless, perhaps, one has it all in a savings account rather than investments). I don't recall if FAFSA asked for savings acct info or just CSS Profile did. The student's savings are a factor.

 

CSS Profile (used at many schools) goes into a lot more depth regarding finances and investments (even what you currently own). It is better able to distinguish an ability to pay. This can be good or bad (I suppose) pending which side one is on.

 

Both ask how many are in the family, but neither seem to split saved money evenly from what we can tell.

 

Having lost the bulk of our savings in the economic downturn, I can say that I appreciate more in depth. It also didn't "hurt" us that hubby's income declined considerably, but to be honest, I'd have rather had the higher income, not lost the savings, and paid more for college...

 

As the economy improves, we plan to be generous with the colleges that so helpfully assisted my guys. I'd like to see that passed on and on.

[snowbeltmom]

I have seen college financial advice suggesting that parents not save in order to reduce their EFC. I am not sure this is particularly good advice since we repeatedly read on this board and others that parents with minimal savings are still expected to cough up considerable sums.

 

 

I have read this as well. I also don't think it is very good advice. I have also read that many times the difference between the parents' EFC and the cost of attendance is made up via loans, not a discount in tuition.

 

For example, If the college's cost of attendance is $50K per year, and the family's EFC is $20K per year, the package the college offers to make up the difference will be $30K in loans. Has anyone come across this "helpful" scenario?

[JFSinIL]

I think they can't as students are limited as to how much of loan they can take out each year. We did not take out parent loans the past three years as managed to cover tuition w/o doing so - next year (since hubby lost his job in Feb.) we can't do this - and since he is w/o employment I doubt we could get a loan even if we wanted to. DD got Pell grants for her CC classes this summer and next year - hope ds gets the same offer for his senior year.

[creekland]

For example, If the college's cost of attendance is $50K per year, and the family's EFC is $20K per year, the package the college offers to make up the difference will be $30K in loans. Has anyone come across this "helpful" scenario?

 

One school did this to us (Furman). They did a modest merit award (maybe 14K?), then loans for all the rest - over 30K. Our EFC that year was < 10K (my guys qualified for Pell that year). We quickly cut them from our list. We don't consider loans need-based aid.

[Barbara H]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the role that parent savings plays in the financial aid process. I agree with the parents here who said that you unable to come close to meeting your EFC as that is based on the idea that you've been saving for many years. Here's a really good article that explains the role of savings and how you know if you've saved so much it will affect financial aid. That's a pretty rare circumstance for most of us. http://www.thecollegesolution.com/will-saving-for-college-hurt-your-chances-for-financial-aid/

[Barbara H]

Re: privacy concerns. I do not believe FAFSA is more of a privacy risk than filing state and federal taxes which is something that I'm hoping most of us do. Here's more detail on what is collected and what is not. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/privacy.htm

 

Refusing to fill out the FAFSA for your child is very significant decision.Some parents assume if they don't plan to pay for college they should not fill out the FAFSA. It is important to be aware that by not filling out the form you are not only refusing to pay for college, but you may be denying your child access to merit based scholarships they have earned through their hard work during high school. That includes both many college based scholarships which might cover up to the full cost of attendance and also some state scholarships such as Florida's Bright Futures. Whether you believe that is how the system should work or not - that is how it works right now.

 

Just FYI for anyone who hasn't filled out the FAFSA, it is typically not very complicated. Most parents report it takes 20 to 30 minutes.

[snowbeltmom]

Refusing to fill out the FAFSA for your child is very significant decision.Some parents assume if they don't plan to pay for college they should not fill out the FAFSA. It is important to be aware that by not filling out the form you are not only refusing to pay for college, but you may be denying your child access to merit based scholarships they have earned through their hard work during high school. .

 

 

I have also read that some parents don't fill out the FAFSA because they know that they will not qualify for any financial aid. However, according to what I have read, if the parents' financial circumstances take a nose-dive while their student is enrolled in college and the family would end up qualifying for need-based aid in subsequent years, the parents are out of luck because the FAFSA was not submitted the year the student matriculated to the college. Has anyone heard of this scenario, or is this an urban legend?

[Barbara H]

Also, I agree about some of the college mail coming from websurfing rather than the FAFSA. My dog receives quite a bit of college mail based on his name being used to register at just a couple of college scholarship sites. At least I think that's why he gets the mail, but maybe everyone just heard he's a very good boy.

[Hoggirl]

Re: privacy concerns. I do not believe FAFSA is more of a privacy risk than filing state and federal taxes which is something that I'm hoping most of us do. Here's more detail on what is collected and what is not. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/privacy.htm

 

Refusing to fill out the FAFSA for your child is very significant decision.Some parents assume if they don't plan to pay for college they should not fill out the FAFSA. It is important to be aware that by not filling out the form you are not only refusing to pay for college, but you may be denying your child access to merit based scholarships they have earned through their hard work during high school. That includes both many college based scholarships which might cover up to the full cost of attendance and also some state scholarships such as Florida's Bright Futures. Whether you believe that is how the system should work or not - that is how it works right now.

 

Just FYI for anyone who hasn't filled out the FAFSA, it is typically not very complicated. Most parents report it takes 20 to 30 minutes.

 

 

I was just talking on the phone with a Florida friend this morning who said *she* had a friend whose *child* had not filed the FAFSA for a subsequent year and lost her Bright Futures scholarship money. It surprised me that a parent would put this responsibility on a child in the first place? How would the child even know how to fill it out??

[TranquilMind]

Thank you for posting this. We have really struggled with the entire FAFSA issue ourselves. Our oldest was disqualified for merit scholarships at his university bc we didn't fill it out knowing he wouldn't qualify for financial aid. It is extremely frustrating that merit aid requires the FAFSA to be filled out. What you quoted here is alarming to me.

 

No one has ever satisfactorily answered that question for me: Why on EARTH is parental personal financial information "required" in order to consider our CHILDREN for MERIT scholarships? Their OWN merit? Not understanding this at all. Either they do or they do not meet the requirements for merit scholarships, entirely independent of our financial status. It's just wrong on every level.

[TranquilMind]

Re: privacy concerns. I do not believe FAFSA is more of a privacy risk than filing state and federal taxes which is something that I'm hoping most of us do. Here's more detail on what is collected and what is not. http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/privacy.htm

 

Refusing to fill out the FAFSA for your child is very significant decision.Some parents assume if they don't plan to pay for college they should not fill out the FAFSA. It is important to be aware that by not filling out the form you are not only refusing to pay for college, but you may be denying your child access to merit based scholarships they have earned through their hard work during high school. That includes both many college based scholarships which might cover up to the full cost of attendance and also some state scholarships such as Florida's Bright Futures. Whether you believe that is how the system should work or not - that is how it works right now.

 

Just FYI for anyone who hasn't filled out the FAFSA, it is typically not very complicated. Most parents report it takes 20 to 30 minutes.

 

But WHY? WHY is a child denied MERIT scholarships because his parents did not fill out financial documents? What do the financial documents have to do with merit? What possible business is our personal financial information to a college if our child merits scholarships? Either the kid merits scholarships or he does not, on his own?!

[TranquilMind]

I have read this as well. I also don't think it is very good advice. I have also read that many times the difference between the parents' EFC and the cost of attendance is made up via loans, not a discount in tuition.

 

For example, If the college's cost of attendance is $50K per year, and the family's EFC is $20K per year, the package the college offers to make up the difference will be $30K in loans. Has anyone come across this "helpful" scenario?

 

Well, isn't that nice of the college to offer to burden one with DEBT and call it "aid"? That would really tick me off. I will not take out loans, period. Not at my/our age (I'm the oldest parent). No freaking way.

 

Lol.

[TranquilMind]

 

One school did this to us (Furman). They did a modest merit award (maybe 14K?), then loans for all the rest - over 30K. Our EFC that year was < 10K (my guys qualified for Pell that year). We quickly cut them from our list. We don't consider loans need-based aid.

 

No, loans are not "aid". You can get loans all by yourself, without the "aid" of the college. But it's so awesome of the college to gain access to all your personal information in order to tell you to do something you could have done entirely without its assistance!

[creekland]

 

No one has ever satisfactorily answered that question for me: Why on EARTH is parental personal financial information "required" in order to consider our CHILDREN for MERIT scholarships? Their OWN merit? Not understanding this at all. Either they do or they do not meet the requirements for merit scholarships, entirely independent of our financial status. It's just wrong on every level.

 

 

Not all schools do this for merit aid. Of those that do, my guess is that they're trying to direct even their merit aid to the most needy students. I recall a study on college confidential some time ago that showed students whose parents filled out the Fafsa or CSS tended to get more merit aid, but it wasn't exclusive. You could limit your schools to those who do not require it if you prefer doing that. ;)

 

 

No, loans are not "aid". You can get loans all by yourself, without the "aid" of the college. But it's so awesome of the college to gain access to all your personal information in order to tell you to do something you could have done entirely without its assistance!

 

 

I should probably differentiate between the loans. We are perfectly ok with the basic federal loans (subsidized and unsubsidized). We consider those an investment my kids make into their own education, but yes, our financial data is used. I am not ok with the rest being loans - either Parent Plus or other loans out there. To me, that is not need-based aid and shouldn't be listed as such. It's money the family needs to come up with.

 

But all of us make our own decisions on this issue. I'm perfectly ok with our financial data being given to schools. It's been well worth it for the aid they've been given. We've even gone further and given our data to some need based scholarships (outside of the school). Oldest did very well with that too. Middle might. We'll know in July. I'm really glad my guys have gotten the opportunities they have. Middle has just finished his freshman year at a 60K/year school - something we never could have afforded otherwise. He is working two research lab jobs there now and getting great experience while thoroughly enjoying himself. That's not something he could do around here at community or local colleges or anywhere else if we had to be full pay or were unwilling to have him take on any loans. (We, ourselves, have none.)

 

But again, all of us have to figure out where we are on this issue. We have no regrets. We also have no regrets turning down the school that thought we should take out 30K+ in loans and called it "aid."

[TranquilMind]

'creekland' :

Not all schools do this for merit aid. Of those that do, my guess is that they're trying to direct even their merit aid to the most needy students.

But then, how is it "merit" aid? That sounds like financial, not merit aid.

 

 

 

I recall a study on college confidential some time ago that showed students whose parents filled out the Fafsa or CSS tended to get more merit aid, but it wasn't exclusive.

But why? That's what I want to know. Why the bias towards obtaining all the personal financial details of someone who is not your student? I don't understand. There must be an ulterior motive.

 

 

You could limit your schools to those who do not require it if you prefer doing that. ;)

 

I don't even know where to begin to look for that. And I'm getting to the point where I might just check out of this whole process. Anything we try to contribute in terms of information or research isn't appreciated anyway.

 

 

 

I should probably differentiate between the loans. We are perfectly ok with the basic federal loans (subsidized and unsubsidized). We consider those an investment my kids make into their own education, but yes, our financial data is used.

 

But why is your information used for a loan that your child takes out? That just seems wrong. And it isn't something I experienced. I was a self-supporting adult when I went to college and never had to drag my parents in on this process.

 

 

I am not ok with the rest being loans - either Parent Plus or other loans out there. To me, that is not need-based aid and shouldn't be listed as such. It's money the family needs to come up with.

 

Exactly. Just call it what it is.

 

 

But all of us make our own decisions on this issue. I'm perfectly ok with our financial data being given to schools. It's been well worth it for the aid they've been given. We've even gone further and given our data to some need based scholarships (outside of the school). Oldest did very well with that too. Middle might. We'll know in July. I'm really glad my guys have gotten the opportunities they have. Middle has just finished his freshman year at a 60K/year school - something we never could have afforded otherwise. He is working two research lab jobs there now and getting great experience while thoroughly enjoying himself. That's not something he could do around here at community or local colleges or anywhere else if we had to be full pay or were unwilling to have him take on any loans. (We, ourselves, have none.)

 

 

 

Well, that's good that he got those opportunities. I have no idea what will happen here. I do not appreciate giving up all of our private financial information though, and I want to know how it is disseminated. I have no faith that it is truly confidential. There are leaks everywhere and everything you do and say is used against you at some point. That's just the way this society works.

[Barbara H]

But WHY? WHY is a child denied MERIT scholarships because his parents did not fill out financial documents? What do the financial documents have to do with merit? What possible business is our personal financial information to a college if our child merits scholarships? Either the kid merits scholarships or he does not, on his own?!

 

I'm not saying it is the policy I'd advocate or design, but I can share the explanation I've received for this from colleges. It is a very common situation that families believe they are not eligible for financial aid when in fact they are. I can confirm from my experience as a counselor that this is true. I've had truly low income families who are eligible for Federal Pell Grants who believe they are not eligible for any financial aid and think they don't need to fill out the FAFSA. And, I've had upper class families (who probably have an income in excess of $200,000) ask if they would be able to receive Pell Grants. Many people are not particularly good at estimating what their eligibility will be. Further, especially in this recession, it is a very common situation for family's financial circumstances to change quite quickly. If there are financial aid forms on file it makes it much easier for the school to adapt and offer aid mid-year so the student can stay in school.

 

Colleges are trying to leverage all sources of money to best serve their students. They have a limited budget of money to work with. This is money they've received from their endowment, from alumni, and from tuition. Their goal is to make that budget work as effectively as possible. If a student is eligible for state and federal grants and is not receiving that money, that student is really not being very well served. Even if they are receiving a substantial scholarship from the college, that federal or state money may "stack" and allow them to pay for books or not having to take out debt for the portion the scholarship does not cover.

[creekland]

But then, how is it "merit" aid? That sounds like financial, not merit aid.

 

It's merit aid because only the top scoring (or whatever they use) kids get the aid. It's more of a hybrid IMO.

 

But why? That's what I want to know. Why the bias towards obtaining all the personal financial details of someone who is not your student? I don't understand. There must be an ulterior motive.

 

??? This is for students who applied, are accepted, or who are going to the schools... the info isn't shared with every college out there - only those you have an interest in. I honestly don't see any ulterior motives other than stats collected to know how many students of X income parents are applying or attending, etc.

 

I don't even know where to begin to look for that. And I'm getting to the point where I might just check out of this whole process. Anything we try to contribute in terms of information or research isn't appreciated anyway.

 

Check on the scholarship pages of schools you're interested in. If in doubt, e-mail the school. There are many who don't care to disclose their personal finances. You wouldn't be alone. If looking at mainly local schools you can probably contact your public high school guidance office. Ours would help with data like that for schools they know about. YMMV

 

Why would your data not be appreciated? Everyone is equal when it comes to things like that. You're family is as important as my family, etc. All of us make the world go around. No one family does it on their own. We all fill niches.

[TranquilMind]

 

I'm not saying it is the policy I'd advocate or design, but I can share the explanation I've received for this from colleges. It is a very common situation that families believe they are not eligible for financial aid when in fact they are. I can confirm from my experience as a counselor that this is true. I've had truly low income families who are eligible for Federal Pell Grants who believe they are not eligible for any financial aid and think they don't need to fill out the FAFSA. And, I've had upper class families (who probably have an income in excess of $200,000) ask if they would be able to receive Pell Grants. Many people are not particularly good at estimating what their eligibility will be. Further, especially in this recession, it is a very common situation for family's financial circumstances to change quite quickly. If there are financial aid forms on file it makes it much easier for the school to adapt and offer aid mid-year so the student can stay in school.

 

Colleges are trying to leverage all sources of money to best serve their students. They have a limited budget of money to work with. This is money they've received from their endowment, from alumni, and from tuition. Their goal is to make that budget work as effectively as possible. If a student is eligible for state and federal grants and is not receiving that money, that student is really not being very well served. Even if they are receiving a substantial scholarship from the college, that federal or state money may "stack" and allow them to pay for books or not having to take out debt for the portion the scholarship does not cover.

 

I realize that this is the party line. But that sort of explanation is bogus for the financially sophisticated families that can figure to the penny what they can obtain. given a set of parameters and forumulas. (This would NOT be class-based. I could have done it when I made $9,000 a year). My husband, for example, knows the Tax Code backwards and forwards, and can cite any section you ask him. He is the go-to person in his firm for any mathematical calculation. Where there is money involved, I can figure out anything. I can remember what I spent on something in 1972. Let me figure out if I am eligible, I would contend.

 

Why should the privacy of all families be breached because some do not know how to calculate their eligibility? Let those who want someone else to figure it out for them offer their personal data, and let the rest of us just know what criteria they need to meet! If that emergency happens midstream, you can bet we can produce financial data within 24 hours. No one needs to have it "just because".

 

I really feel strongly about privacy. I do realize that it might be illusory, but by golly, I am hanging on with my last fingernail as long as I can. I realize I'm just venting here and no one cares or is in a position to do anything about this ridiculous system anyway. Part of me wishes I could just win a lottery or something and buy my privacy that way, which I know is unrealistic. But why do we as a society allow this invasive system and uncontrolled costs?

 

There's something else going on.