Pros and Cons of getting an Associates Degree

[TheApprentice]

Our local CC had a seminar last week for home schooled students. The speaker was going on about how easy it would be to receive an Associates degree while still high school age, save a little money in the process, then transfer to a 4 year college (I'm not sure if the student would be classified as a freshman at that point).

 

Is this a viable option? What would be the pros and cons? Anyone's child gone this route?

[Jane in NC]

Like so many things in this world, the answer to the query is "It depends."

 

One of my son's friends was able to earn an associate's degree for minimal cost. (Some states have free dual enrollment; others charge normal tuition rates which may or may not be inexpensive.) She then completed her BA in two years at a regional university without any debt. This worked for her because she was not in a STEM field. The CC that she attended is weak in the STEM area.

 

If your student is transferring to a state university that has an articulation agreement with the CC or your state's CC system, then the path may be easier than for those students who wish to attend schools not aligned. Credits may not transfer--or the the program into which your student is transferring may have requirements not offered by the CC system. For example, my son attends a writing intensive school. He has certain requirements that are unique to his school. Transfer students are at a disadvantage.

 

Transfer students may also be at a disadvantage if they are going into engineering programs. (Please note--I say "may". Anecdotal evidence aside...) Engineering students often form study groups from the get go or take courses not offered at a typical CC. Engineering Calculus courses may use Maple. Does the CC Calc course require this?

 

I would suggest that you consider your student's goals and then examine the offerings of the CC. This might work--or might not. It all depends...

[PentecostalMom]

I agree with Jane, you first need to know the student's goals. If they involve a 4-year (or more) school, then I would contact the 4-year school first to be certain that the AA that said student would receive is easily transferable. For instance, where I live the CC is the main feed for students going into the University. That is for students who did not just go straight to the University. It is a lot cheaper (free dual enrollment) to go to the CC. The University also offers dual enrollment for hs students beginning in 9th grade. This does not guarantee them admission upon high school graduation, just an alternate way to get credits early.

[HollyDay]

We are considering this route as well. A few things I'm hearing, asking, and considering:

 

I know several students who did get their AA degree and entered college as a junior at 18ish years old. This can be challenging depending upon the maturity of the dc. If you have a "young" 18ish year old then it might be difficult for them to take on junior and senior level classes with kids in their 20s. Also, some campuses do not allow jrs to live on site. If your state allows for free dual enrollment, then this can be a great option. It can drastically cut college expenses.

 

Every time I talk to a group of college students, I ask what route they took. Always there is at least one who responds they wish they had gone the CC route to save money. One young man working at a local merchant said his financee is getting the same dregree he is getting. She did CC then transferred while he went directly 4 year. Both are working and making about the same amount of money. She will not have any debt thanks to a combination of dual enrollment and post high school CC, but he does.

 

Does your dc know what they want to study? Will the CC credits transfer to the college/university of choice? Does the preferred college/university have an agreeement or association with the local CC? Does the preferred college offer online classes that could be taken now in lieu of "traditional" brick and mortar dual enrollment? What are your dc's ACT and SAT scores like? Are they high enough for scholarship? Admission to college of choice?

 

Research your state, CC, and 4 year colleges. See what they offer, what they require, and what they prefer. I personally know 1 young man who entered college as a junior with a nice scholarship upon graduation from high school with an associates degree. I know several dc who entered college as freshmen with several hours of CC credit that did transfer. I know some whose credits did not all transfer.

 

We are also looking at a combination of CLEP and CC.

 

You might also consider talking to someone like CollegePrep and CollegePlus. They have some good information to consider as well.

[Butter]

There are a lot of "depends" making a definitive answer pretty much non-existent. However, once a degree is awarded it is yours. No one can take it away from you. This is not the case with credits taken that did not end in a degree. My best friend is in a situation where she must be able to work and make enough to provide for her children. When she married, she was still in college, about 2 1/2 years into it. Her husband convinced her he would always take care of her and there was no need for her to complete her degree. So, being an in love, idealistic early 20s year old, she quit school. Then life happened. Fast forward about 12 years and she found that all those credits she earned are now useless. Some are out of date, but, worse, the college she went to was on a weird schedule (trimesters I think) and now are on semesters. However it worked out, she had a bit over 2 credits for every class she needed 3 credits for. Meaning: she had to retake the entire class. This put her behind a couple years worth of college on her way to a degree. Had she gotten an associates degree first (she went straight to a 4 year school), she would have been able to skip those first two years of basics because her degree would have been enough. Since she took the classes, but lacked the appropriate number of credits, it was quite frustrating for her when she went back to college. So, if there's at all a chance of not finishing 4 years, an associates degree could prove useful in the future. No one can take it away from you. (And, for some degrees, an associates is all you need - I have an associates degree in nursing and am an RN - some of my classmates then did a one night a week RN to BSN program for a year and got their bachelors while working as a nurse; others didn't both with the BSN and are making good money as nurses anyway.)

[Murphy101]

I agree with Jane. It all depends on several things.

 

One benefit might be that they have some degree to help them earn money while they keep going to college. Another might be that they can transfer their entire degree, vs going credit by credit and coming up short in a few areas. But you have to check for details. For example, that does not hold true for an associates in applied science at the universities here. Any other associates they transfers in in it's entirety, but an applied associates is broken down and evaluated credit by credit for each transfer. So now that I know that, there isn't much point in one of my sons pushing toward an associates when what's really important and a bigger savings is him getting as many certifications as possible before he transfers bc the certifications always transfer and are more $ thru the uni. For my other son, getting the associates will help him get a job in his field with slightly better pay, which will help him pay for furthering his degree, slowly but steadily. He is not as gungho about going to college, but is eager to get paid, so this meets his needs.

 

And I wouldn't get any associates. Just because they can doesn't mean it will help towards their bachelors later and if it doesn't, then it might only be wasted money in the end.

 

So again, it depends. You'll have to do some research into the top 3-5 universities you think most likely to be used by your child and compare options.

[Gwen in VA]

Random thoughts --

 

1) If your child transfers into a college, he may not be eligible for on-campus housing. This is a mixed bag -- it may help some kids, but if your kid is not mature enough to REALLY live on his own, this may be problematic.

 

2) Many colleges will not accept all (or even most) transfer credits. Situations we have run across -- (a) some colleges do not accept any transfer credits from community colleges, period. The college my older two attended had this policy. (B) Some colleges seriously limit the number of transfer credits they allow. My dd2 is considering applying to two colleges that allow a maximum of 6 transfer credits (including AP!!!) no matter what. c) Some schools are just fussy. Many years ago I took calculus 1 and calculus 2 and chemistry 101 & 102 at a top-ranked (USNWR top-20) LAC, but when I transferred to an engineering school I had to retake all four classes. (Thankfully all of my humanities credits transferred!)

 

So do a LOT of investigating before deciding that getting an Associate's is the best path for your child. It may be, but it may NOT be.

[SkateLeft]

As others have said, it really depends. My daughter has spent the last two years as a full-time dual enrolled student. She finishes tomorrow with close to 60 units. We opted not to pursue an AS degree. She has completed the MN Transfer Curriculum, but not the AS.

 

Our goal was to keep as many doors open as possible, for as long as possible.

 

In our case, the decision was based primarily on not wanting her to lose her eligibility as a freshman applicant at the 4 year university. Although she has a 4.0 GPA and there are substantial Phi Theta Kappa transfer scholarships that she'd be eligible for, all of the schools that she was considering gave considerably more merit aid to freshman applicants. I guess that's just something that depends on which schools your student might attend. If she wasn't such a strong student, it might have been better to let her transfer an AS.

 

I don't know of any school that offers more merit aid to transfer students (apart from PTK full tuition scholarships). I suspect that part of the financial decision with transfer students is the decreased amount of time spent at the four year university. That's another reason we didn't opt for the AS. My daughter turns 17 this summer, so she's already very young. We have no intention of having her graduate early from the four year university.

 

We also knew that she wanted to major in engineering, and she wanted to take the core required science classes at the university rather than at the CC. Our CC is excellent, but not as good as the university.

 

Also, many STEM degree programs only offer certain classes in sequence during certain semesters, so the likelihood of transferring in with an AS and graduating two years later with an engineering degree is quite slim. In my experience, most engineering programs are really 5+ years, so transferring is no guarantee to a shorter time at the university.

 

She has the advantage of coming in with enough transferable units to complete her general ed requirements. That will have the benefit of freeing up her schedule a little so she can take a lighter load some semesters, double major, co-op/intern, pick up a minor or just take classes in something unrelated.

 

So I guess it really depends on where you student might want to apply, what they're interested in majoring in and what their goals are, and how strong a student they are. If they're like to do very well, then the possibility of better freshman scholarships is something to consider.

[Catwoman]

 

One benefit might be that they have some degree to help them earn money while they keep going to college. Another might be that they can transfer their entire degree, vs going credit by credit and coming up short in a few areas. But you have to check for details. For example, that does not hold true for an associates in applied science at the universities here. Any other associates they transfers in in it's entirety, but an applied associates is broken down and evaluated credit by credit for each transfer. So now that I know that, there isn't much point in one of my sons pushing toward an associates when what's really important and a bigger savings is him getting as many certifications as possible before he transfers bc the certifications always transfer and are more $ thru the uni.

 

Not to be nosy (well, OK, yes, I'm being nosy ;)) but which certifications will your ds be pursuing? I have been researching things like dual enrollment possibilities for my ds, but haven't even thought to look into certification programs, which might be of more interest to him -- and potentially more useful, as well.

[Ellie]

Our local CC had a seminar last week for home schooled students. The speaker was going on about how easy it would be to receive an Associates degree while still high school age, save a little money in the process, then transfer to a 4 year college (I'm not sure if the student would be classified as a freshman at that point).

 

Is this a viable option? What would be the pros and cons? Anyone's child gone this route?

 

Yes, it is a viable option.

 

Both of my children went to c.c. instead of high school. I attended my state's first homeschool convention in, oh, 1984? My dc were at that time 8 and 5; the only workshops I went to were the ones about getting through high school--I like to be prepared. :D One of the speakers advocated doing community college instead of high school; after all, he said, all of the lower division courses at a 4-yr college are a repeat of high school, so why do them twice? Why not do them once and have college credit for them to boot? Sounded good to me.

 

So older dd began taking classes at the c.c. when she was 13 (she had her 14th bday in class). She was not "dual enrolled." Where we lived (San Francisco Bay area) one of the c.c. had a category called "Student Under 18 Not Enrolled in School." We paid the same tuition as other students (which in Calif is amazingly low), and she earned college credit, not high school credit (in Calif, hsers don't need an outside source for high school credit). I did not push her to graduate at 16. In fact, when she was 16, she decided to go to the cosmetology school through the c.c.. She graduated from that, worked for a year or so, then finished her A.A. and transferred to San Jose State as a junior, where she graduated with a BA in English Literature. She worked her way through SJ State.

 

Younger dd also began taking c.c. classes at 14; she also did not graduate at 16. She did graduate with multiple AA's, but decided not to go on to San Jose State because she was only interested in being a dance major, and she did NOT like some of the shows that dance majors had to participate in. o_0

 

Back then, many of the hsers I knew went the c.c. route, some of them graduating at 16 and going on to earn their BA/BS at young ages. No one I knew then did AP at home, or CLEP. Y'all newer homeschoolers have figured out that stuff, lol.

 

In California, transfer students are guaranteed to be admitted to CalState and University of California schools, ahead of high school students. They might not get the campus they want at first depending on what their majors are, but they will get in *somewhere.*

 

If I had it to do over again, under the same circumstances, I'd do it again. YMMV. :-)

[G5052]

It can work very well, but it is also not an option to be taken lightly. The local community college where I teach is a good one. The majority of the graduates enter a 4-years school within 2 years of graduating, and transfer agreements protect the credits you earn as long as you take the right classes and get good grades. We just had graduation, and there were six students who completed their associate's degree at 18.

 

That said, not every 16 y.o. is ready for a full slate of college classes. Sometimes people think that homeschooled students automatically do well with dual enrollment. Not true. About half of the dual enrollment students who take my class fail it. I'm in the camp of trying a class or two to start before jumping to a full schedule. One of mine will take his first in the fall, and I'll be monitoring it closely. You need to do that as well.

[ocelotmom]

Con: College is true "permanent record" time. If the student is not ready for college level classes, emotionally or academically, it has the potential to really impact their choices years later. If they're capable of passing these classes, but would do much better in them if they had a stronger high school level background first, it might be better to wait.

[bugs]

The cc my dd is attending offers AA - Transfer degrees which can be used in most/all state schools and several private schools in our state. These supply some low level core class requirements for some majors. A lot of the classes at the cc are transferable and most of the universities' websites will provide a list of equivalent courses. At this point, high school students only pay for books at our cc.

 

I do look at the dual enrollment differently (probably because it's "free"). My daughter is learning how to be in college in the safety of her own home. Though she is fairly good at time management, taking these classes pushes her to the next level. She doesn't know what she wants to major in, so a general AA allows her to explore a variety of areas.

 

My daughter desperately wants to get her AA, so it's ensuring it happens is up to her. If a child isn't as motivated, or mature, it may not happen. Some of her friends don't do as well in their classes because they haven't learned good time management skills. It really isn't a matter of intelligence - ask me how I know.

[TheApprentice]

Thanks for all the feedback. It wasn't on my radar, at all, until I attended this seminar, so I will definitely do some research. My impression, based on you all's information, is that it may be easier as a liberal arts major. My son is leaning more toward, computer programming/architectural engineering. This may not be the right path for those interests.

[Murphy101]

No. That's not necessarily true at all. You really do have to do your research on both the cc and most potential unis on your dc's list. There are many non liberal arts options too.

 

There's a very good aviation program at the local cc here and my son will be using it. But we won't seek the applied science associates bc he doesn't need that tho he does need the certificates he will earn there and those do him in good stead at his uni of choice.

 

My other son will shoot for an associates bc his degree plan will take them from this cc as is and that's much cheaper and permit him to check that degree box when job hunting even tho he won't have finished his bachelors yet.

 

So again, whether your cc has what you need, depends entirely on your student and the cc

[AngieW in Texas]

I think it depends on your major and it definitely depends on the school you are going to.

 

For ATEC (Arts and Technology), getting an AS first would have worked fine. The only problem would have been that she would have gone to university as a transfer student instead of a freshman. Since she got a full tuition scholarship, that wouldn't have saved us any money. They don't offer much for transfers. She still had 42 credits to transfer in from dual credit, although a lot of those transferred as elective because they were needed for high school, but not needed for college (like her 13 credits of Japanese).

 

For computer science, getting an AS first would make life very difficult. There are lots of course sequences to go through and many of those would need to be done entirely at the university. You could definitely complete your core at cc first, but then you'd end up taking lots of cs courses every semester and you'd still need to go to university for at least 3 years. I'm not sure that it would be worth it in the end since scholarships are pretty puny for transfers.

 

ETA:

With the requirements at our cc, you can't get your AS as a dual credit student because you are limited to just 2 classes/semester until you have completed 12 credit hours (need at least 2 semesters to get 12 credit hours). An AS degree is extremely difficult to get in just 2 summers and 4 long semesters, especially since you are limited to no more than 2 classes/semester until you have completed your first 12 credit hours. Therefore, to get an AS, you would have to continue with classes at the cc after high school graduation which would make you a transfer student rather than a freshman when looking at scholarships.

 

If you managed to get your AS while still in high school, then you could probably retain freshman status even with the AS.

 

If your student isn't likely to get merit scholarships, then getting an AS first could be a huge help financially.

[Murphy101]

AngieW - many students who graduate high school with an associates from their CC do so with more than just credit classes, they also might get AP or CLEP or DSST credits or accrue credits while also dual enrolled in a technical school. It really depends on the cc and the associates they are seeking and how driven they are to attain it.

 

For an example:

 

9 credits from technical school (which is one of the options here)

36 credits in classes at CC (2 3 credit courses during each semester of junior(12) and senior year (12) plus the summer between (6) and after senior year(6)

That's 45 right there, only approx 5 courses or CLEPs/APs from the approx 60 credits needed for most associate degrees.

 

Again, it depends on the student and the school in question.

[Pawz4me]

My youngest has applied to our community college's early college high school program. If accepted, he'll have the opportunity to complete his high school graduation requirements and a two-year AA or AS degree in four years. Even if he doesn't complete a degree, he would certainly earn lots of credits. We're crossing our fingers and praying and hoping that he gets accepted, because we think it will be a great fit and opportunity for him. We aren't concerned whether he comes out with a degree or just a ton of credits. Our state has a very good comprehensive articulation agreement, so we feel confident any credits he earns will transfer to most of our public four-year schools (and several private colleges/universities) if he chooses to go that route. And, thankfully, we don't have to be overly concerned about the financial implications one way or another. We tend to take one step at a time, and right now the cc seems like a very good place for him. If he's not accepted, our plan is to have him take as many cc classes as possible starting when he's 16. I doubt seriously as a dual enrolled student he'd be able to complete a degree, but again it's the experience of being in that setting and taking (hopefully) challenging classes that we're interested in.

[Butter]

For computer science, getting an AS first would make life very difficult. There are lots of course sequences to go through and many of those would need to be done entirely at the university. You could definitely complete your core at cc first, but then you'd end up taking lots of cs courses every semester and you'd still need to go to university for at least 3 years. I'm not sure that it would be worth it in the end since scholarships are pretty puny for transfers.

 

Except computer science is a depends as well. My husband got an associates from a cc that had a matriculation agreement with about a dozen universities. Computer science was most definitely included as one that would take 2 additional years at the university (provided you went full time). The best thing to do is check with the cc and see about their agreements, if any. If there's an agreement for the major, they will accept everything from the associates as the full first two years (and if they don't accept everything they will tell you what will be needed in addition). Transfer scholarships were also pretty impressive for those who finished their associates (they were really pushing getting an associates at the CC system).

 

Do your research ahead of time about the desired major and what transferring to a university after getting an associates would entail. That's the only advice that is a definite.

[Jane in NC]

This thread demonstrates the variety of CC options available across the country, options that depend on geography. For example, the computer course offerings at my local CC are all applied courses that teach how to use software. None of these courses would transfer into a computer science program. I had a friend who earned a two year business degree at the our CC in order to find a job after her kids were in school. She did and then considered getting a BA for advancement. The problem was that few of her business courses would transfer. The CC's offerings are applied courses in bookkeeping and various computer technologies. As others mentioned, these courses develop skills which make one employable--but they are not part of the four year degree path despite the articulation agreement that NC CCs have with the UNC system.

 

My CC has a turf grass program that would be great for young people who want to be outside. We know a young man who loves the outdoors and has advanced in his grounds crew job due to certifications from the CC.

 

In recent years, as college costs have ballooned, some community colleges are seeing record enrollments.Some high school students are placed at the back of the line without much of a class choice. Our CC allowed my son to preregister early so he never had problems getting his preferred prof or time slot. But our CC is also relatively small compared to some in the state.

 

Dual enrollment policies at NC CCs have changed since my son was in school. (Those who plan in advance for your young children should be forewarned that legislators seem to change policies on a regular basis!) Due to the success and popularity of Early College options, many on CC campuses, the CCs are now bringing courses to brick and mortar schools to avoid student transportation issues. Also, some of my state's CCs have better tech options than than the local high schools. The new policies address placement of high school students in these tech programs. (Not all tech programs are in things like welding; there are biotech classes too.)

[HelenNotOfTroy]

In my state, I think it is a good idea to look at the catalog of the 4 year college and see how the requirements differ (if both schools are public, the course numbers should align a certain way). The back of the old paper catalog for the community college I received my AA from had several pages that listed the majors offered, the state universities, and whether that major transferred to that school. I earned an AA at my local community college and a BS from a major state university. The AA should cover all of the core classes, but not necessarily lower division classes required in the major department at the 4 year school.

[SkateLeft]

Back then, many of the hsers I knew went the c.c. route, some of them graduating at 16 and going on to earn their BA/BS at young ages. No one I knew then did AP at home, or CLEP. Y'all newer homeschoolers have figured out that stuff, lol.

 

I moved here four years ago from northern California, and if we'd stayed there, that was my plan. Most of my homeschooling friends in CA are still going that route.

 

I took community college classes in Cupertino when I was in high school, and it was a great experience, but CA limited high school students to only a single class each semester. I don't know if that's changed, but it seems like my homeschooling friends have to graduate their kids early so they can take more than one class at a time.