Anyone have experience with a child that holds their thumb in fist

[GoVanGogh]

Any experience with a child that folds their thumb into their fist?

Child does this when standing still, such as posing for a photograph or standing in line.

Has as early as 2 years of age, still does at 11.

[GoVanGogh]

Edited original post to change title.

 

 

Now bumping.

Anyone?

 

Is this a vestibular/balance issue? retained reflex?

[geodob]

The TIF Thumb In Fist posture, is something that all babies are born with.

Which has typically disappeared by 6 weeks.

Then by 12 weeks, a baby is able to 'loosely close their hand'.

Though random occurrences of TIF may happen up until 28 weeks.

After which TIF has completely disappeared.

 

But a critical factor, is that the part Cerebral Cortex that is involved with TIF. Is located close to the part of the CC that is used for speech motor control.

Where a delay in the disappearance of TIF past 12 weeks, has shown a correlation with a delay in speech development.

 

Though I would ask if the child has TIF in both hands or just one?

As it may just be in one hand. Where just having it one hand, will still effect speech development.

 

In relation to your question about whether this is a vestibular/balance or retained reflex issue?

While cortical lesions can be the issue.

The Palmar/ Grasp Reflex is of particular relevance.

Where the Grasp Reflex is also termed as the 'hanging on for dear life reflex'.

Where birth trauma is the major factor in a retained Grasp Reflex.

But Grasp Reflex is an inadequate term, as it doesn't make a distinction between the fingers and the thumbs?

As TIF really needs to be recognized as a distinct developmental Reflex.

 

It was interesting that you observed this TIF when the child was in states of standing still.

Where the thumbs are not being used and the TIF occurs in a state of rest.

Which is probably why TIF is termed as a 'posture'?

[GoVanGogh]

Thank you for the reply.

 

Re: One or both hands

I went through a number of digital pictures to take to the neuro --- six times on right side and one on left.

I didn't get through all of our pictures, though, as I just tried to get some samples of two issues -- thumb in fist and locked/claw posture. Now that I see it is generally on right side, I will go back through pictures and see if there are any more times I caught it on left.

 

Re: Standing still

In the seven pictures I have - the one of the left side was while he was walking (age 4) while all the other photos (ages 4 through 11 years) were taken when child was standing for a photo.

 

Per my other thread "Therapists vs specialists"

We went back to the neuro in January because the therapist said child has retained reflexes. Neuro says it is just neuromuscular disorder, not retained reflexes. We switched therapy facilities. New therapists (PT, OT and owner) say child does have retained reflexes - the child's body functions as if they have retained reflexes, so they will treat no matter what neuro says. But they are not sure about this issue. (They were observing/talking about other retained reflexes.)

Therapists are not sure if this is a retained reflex, coping mechanism for tremors, seeking to balance self or sign of something more.

 

Child does have mild brain injury.

Child had speech therapy as a toddler, but was not dx with anything more than delayed speech. Neuro (examing child for first time, 9 years later) thinks it may have been more than a mere speech delay.

[geodob]

This perhaps explains your problem with the neurologist?

As they generally have little real knowledge of retained reflexes. Where they rely on OT's to diagnose it.

If they did, then the initial MRI that showed no brain bleeds and probably no lesions? Would have raised a question about the possibility of retained reflexes.

Given that their a strong correlation between birth trauma and retained reflexes.

Also that retained reflexes impede the proper develop of the brain.

So your best approach, might to be to have the therapist work on resolving the retained reflexes.

Then after this has been done, you could go back to the neurologist.

Who can then assess any improvement in cognitive abilities.

[Celia]

Might be totally unrelated, but I've noticed that I do that when I need an increase in my anxiety meds.

[dsmith]

I do this when my hands are dry, which for me is a sensory issue. I cannot handle the feeling of dryness. Ds also does this. He didn't do it when younger, and has many sensory issues. He will have his thumb tucked in under the index finger and his other fingers curled under after I cut his nails. He will be unable to write or do anything with his hands for a few hours to a full day afterwards.

[sixpence1978]

I do this as well. I do it much more so when I am under more stress.

[GoVanGogh]

Child had evaluation for this yesterday and it is triggered neurologically, meaing it is likely a retained reflex.

It is much worse on child's right side. Once again, we were told child is likely right-handed - but has been using left hand for the past decade as their left side isn't as affected by neurological issues.

[GoVanGogh]

This perhaps explains your problem with the neurologist?

As they generally have little real knowledge of retained reflexes. Where they rely on OT's to diagnose it.

If they did, then the initial MRI that showed no brain bleeds and probably no lesions? Would have raised a question about the possibility of retained reflexes.

Given that their a strong correlation between birth trauma and retained reflexes.

Also that retained reflexes impede the proper develop of the brain.

So your best approach, might to be to have the therapist work on resolving the retained reflexes.

Then after this has been done, you could go back to the neurologist.

Who can then assess any improvement in cognitive abilities.

 

Thank you for the info.

Child didn't have a brain bleed and just has mild differences, so it took us years to get an MRI.

Finally got one last year and it showed one portion of brain slighly underdeveloped, likely a result of traumatic birth.

(I had a seizure which caused child to be delivered early.)

We see an orthotic doctor next month who specializes in what child has already been dx with and what therapists want child now tested for. When I was looking at the doctor's bio on-line, it mentioned that he looks for retained reflexes so I am hopeful to get more info then.

[Guest rol]

Greetings! I stumbled onto this forum searching online for "thumb in fist" and found the content of  your post to corroborate with some symptoms I experienced

relating to a recent medical situation that befell me. About six months ago an MRI revealed an 80mm tumor located in the front left portion of my skull.

It basically compressed much of the left cerebral cortex and frontal lobe.  I underwent surgery and had it removed with great success... Though staples were running down half my head, I was comfortable enough to check out of the hospital three days after surgery. Other than the side effects from anti-seizure drugs and massive doses of steroids to suppress cerebral edema, I was feeling great (to be alive).  :)

For two weeks, I did have difficulty in forming complex sentences and responding to quick conversations in a timely manner. What irked me was that I found my hands frequently forming the "thumb in fist". I did not know what evoked the hand motions, but it did in some way offer a comforting sensation, both physically and mentally. I just thought I'd chime in about it.. coming from someone who had temporary surgical trauma to the CC,  isn't an infant, and does have the ability verbally offer firsthand feedback regarding TIF.

 

~R

But a critical factor, is that the part Cerebral Cortex that is involved with TIF. Is located close to the part of the CC that is used for speech motor control.
Where a delay in the disappearance of TIF past 12 weeks, has shown a correlation with a delay in speech development.

Though I would ask if the child has TIF in both hands or just one?
As it may just be in one hand. Where just having it one hand, will still effect speech development.

In relation to your question about whether this is a vestibular/balance or retained reflex issue?
While cortical lesions can be the issue.
The Palmar/ Grasp Reflex is of particular relevance.
Where the Grasp Reflex is also termed as the 'hanging on for dear life reflex'.
Where birth trauma is the major factor in a retained Grasp Reflex.
But Grasp Reflex is an inadequate term, as it doesn't make a distinction between the fingers and the thumbs?
As TIF really needs to be recognized as a distinct developmental Reflex.

It was interesting that you observed this TIF when the child was in states of standing still.
Where the thumbs are not being used and the TIF occurs in a state of rest.
Which is probably why TIF is termed as a 'posture'?