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girl expelled, charged with felony, at local school


ktgrok
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Yes, but it seems he could still go to jail, as I could I suppose. It would still be a felony.

 

I'll admit to not reading the article terribly closely. (And I went in search of more information, but found the exact same wording reported over and over on different sites.) But I thought the felony in this case was having the bomb on school grounds?

 

Edit:

 

Okay, according to this site - http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/citizen-warrior/2013/may/1/florida-schoolgirl-charged-felony-science/ - it was the fact that she was on school grounds and not supervised by a teacher that was significant.

 

"[T]he activity violated the schoolĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s code of conduct, which mandates expulsion for any Ă¢â‚¬Å“student in possession of a bomb or explosive deviceĂ¢â‚¬Â¦while at a school, a school activity or a school busĂ¢â‚¬Â¦unless itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s used as part of a school-related activity sanctioned by and conducted by a teacher.Ă¢â‚¬

 

"Wilmot has been expelled, arrested and charged with possession/discharge of a weapon on school property and discharging a destructive device."

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If you play with fire....you will get burned

At 16 she is aware of the potential consequences - especially at school, especially after Boston. She may not have thought it did not apply to her. She is a good kid, just curious... Etc.. Just like a lot of teens who do really stupid things. A lot of teens who do something risky just once end up dead.

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I'm 27 and I had no idea about these. I graduated high school in 2004 and nothing like this went on in my school.

 

I think there should've been some consequence but it is reasonable that this girl didn't know that this was a criminal event let alone a felony.

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There seems to be a real problem comprehending there is a median ground between a slap on the wrist and permanent expulsion w/possible prison felony charges.

 

It is my opinion that there is that median ground and it should be used in this case.

 

This huge and ridiculous pendulum complete tolerance or zero tolerance is stupid and causes more problems than it addresses.

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There seems to be a real problem comprehending there is a median ground between a slap on the wrist and permanent expulsion w/possible prison felony charges.

 

It is my opinion that there is that median ground and it should be used in this case.

 

This huge and ridiculous pendulum complete tolerance or zero tolerance is stupid and causes more problems than it addresses.

 

 

Hitting like wasn't enough.

 

I completely agree.

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I'll admit to not reading the article terribly closely. (And I went in search of more information, but found the exact same wording reported over and over on different sites.) But I thought the felony in this case was having the bomb on school grounds?

 

Edit:

 

Okay, according to this site - http://communities.w...felony-science/ - it was the fact that she was on school grounds and not supervised by a teacher that was significant.

 

"[T]he activity violated the schoolĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s code of conduct, which mandates expulsion for any Ă¢â‚¬Å“student in possession of a bomb or explosive deviceĂ¢â‚¬Â¦while at a school, a school activity or a school busĂ¢â‚¬Â¦unless itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s used as part of a school-related activity sanctioned by and conducted by a teacher.Ă¢â‚¬

 

"Wilmot has been expelled, arrested and charged with possession/discharge of a weapon on school property and discharging a destructive device."

 

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There seems to be a real problem comprehending there is a median ground between a slap on the wrist and permanent expulsion w/possible prison felony charges.

 

It is my opinion that there is that median ground and it should be used in this case.

 

 

I don't disagree that labelling this girl a felon for the rest of her life may be out of proportion to her "crime."

 

Please remember that she has not yet been tried or convicted. The linked blogs and sites are simply reporting the charges.

 

It is entirely possible a middle ground will be reached once the dust clears. Charges may be reduced or dropped. She may be tried and acquitted. All kinds of things might happen before the process is complete.

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I don't disagree that labelling this girl a felon for the rest of her life may be out of proportion to her "crime."

 

Please remember that she has not yet been tried or convicted. The linked blogs and sites are simply reporting the charges.

 

It is entirely possible a middle ground will be reached once the dust clears. Charges may be reduced or dropped. She may be tried and acquitted. All kinds of things might happen before the process is complete.

 

 

Let's hope so.

 

She is a happy, bright looking girl in that picture. I hope the consequences she faces are appropriate and not draconian.

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I WANT zero tolerance for bombs at the high school I work at (or malls, or any other public place).

 

And I suspect they'll end up with a middle ground... but if it's just a slap on the wrist to start with many minds will starting thinking - "hey, the punishment isn't that bad... it's worth it."

 

No thank you!

 

I'm of the age where they taught us to make bombs (small) in middle and high school. (We also played with mercury...) However, those were always controlled situations with a teacher and significant learning about why the reaction works and what safety precautions to use. There's a big difference when a kid simply decides to do it on their own IMO.

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I'm of the age where they taught us to make bombs (small) in middle and high school. (We also played with mercury...) However, those were always controlled situations with a teacher and significant learning about why the reaction works and what safety precautions to use. There's a big difference when a kid simply decides to do it on their own IMO.

 

Maybe if they did do these things in class, and learned about the safety issues, she wouldn't have done this. I read over and over yesterday, when researching this, that police/schools don't want to publicize how dangerous these things are, as the increased publicity will encourage people to make them. If they DID talk about them, I'd know how dangerous they were, and she would too. And I bet, given that they said she's a good kid, not a trouble maker, etc, she never would have done it.

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I'm of the age where they taught us to make bombs (small) in middle and high school. (We also played with mercury...) However, those were always controlled situations with a teacher and significant learning about why the reaction works and what safety precautions to use. There's a big difference when a kid simply decides to do it on their own IMO.

 

Maybe if they did do these things in class, and learned about the safety issues, she wouldn't have done this. I read over and over yesterday, when researching this, that police/schools don't want to publicize how dangerous these things are, as the increased publicity will encourage people to make them. If they DID talk about them, I'd know how dangerous they were, and she would too. And I bet, given that they said she's a good kid, not a trouble maker, etc, she never would have done it.

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Maybe if they did do these things in class, and learned about the safety issues, she wouldn't have done this. I read over and over yesterday, when researching this, that police/schools don't want to publicize how dangerous these things are, as the increased publicity will encourage people to make them. If they DID talk about them, I'd know how dangerous they were, and she would too. And I bet, given that they said she's a good kid, not a trouble maker, etc, she never would have done it.

 

 

Well, that is exactly what her expulsion and the criminal charges are accomplishing.

 

 

But, I personally do not think 16 year olds really need to be sit down and told by a police officer that bad things might happen if you pour corrosive drain cleaner into a water bottle.

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Maybe if they did do these things in class, and learned about the safety issues, she wouldn't have done this. I read over and over yesterday, when researching this, that police/schools don't want to publicize how dangerous these things are, as the increased publicity will encourage people to make them. If they DID talk about them, I'd know how dangerous they were, and she would too. And I bet, given that they said she's a good kid, not a trouble maker, etc, she never would have done it.

 

 

I am sure this girl watched the same science safety videos that my ds watched in the first class of every high school science class and again this year in first semester college chem. ds took 5 science classes in ps and attends college in another state. They do explain the safety issues of this stuff. The is a 16 year old, not an 8 year old. A 16 year old can be expected to grasp the implications of doing this stuff.

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I'm waiting to see if more details come up. But for what it's worth, I think they are over reacting. Do teens need to be responsible for their actions? Sure. Do they do dumb stuff? Sure. Do they do some really dumb, wth were they thinking dumb stuff? Yep.

 

Zero tolerance is just as bad as doing nothing.

 

 

*I'd like to add I come from the point of view that minor's should always be charged as minors. If they can be charged as an adult they should have all the rights and responsibilities of adults.

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Well, that is exactly what her expulsion and the criminal charges are accomplishing.

 

 

But, I personally do not think 16 year olds really need to be sit down and told by a police officer that bad things might happen if you pour corrosive drain cleaner into a water bottle.

 

I don't see the benefit to waiting until someone has, whether purposefully or ignorantly, set off one of these to educate people.

 

The news sites I read said "toilet bowl cleaner." That's a common household item. I'm in my 50s and it wouldn't have occurred to me that it would be against the law to put aluminum foil in a container with toilet cleaner. I might have thought it was stupid but not against the law.

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I don't see the benefit to waiting until someone has, whether purposefully or ignorantly, set off one of these to educate people.

 

The news sites I read said "toilet bowl cleaner." That's a common household item. I'm in my 50s and it wouldn't have occurred to me that it would be against the law to put aluminum foil in a container with toilet cleaner. I might have thought it was stupid but not against the law.

 

Then I suggest you write to your school district to have them put on an informational seminar, if you think it is so necessary. Many many many many kids are aware of drano bombs and manage to not bring one to school.

 

It is not illegal for you to make a drano bomb, as others have posted. It is only illegal to bring on to school.

 

I am not a fan of one size fits all zero tolerance . But this was dangerous and stupid and reckless, not just 'kids will be kids'.

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Why didn't the school take the opportunity to teach this girl what the chemical reaction was and explain why there was an explosion? As a chemist, that's what I would have done. Given the circumstances, it appears she was curious. Use the opportunity to teach instead of throwing the her to the wolves.

 

Diann

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Why didn't the school take the opportunity to teach this girl what the chemical reaction was and explain why there was an explosion? As a chemist, that's what I would have done. Given the circumstances, it appears she was curious. Use the opportunity to teach instead of throwing the her to the wolves.

 

Diann

 

 

again this is a 16 year old, not an 8 year old. A 16 year old high school student has presumably passed middle school physical science where this would have been covered. I do not see this as a "teachable moment" for academic subjects.

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Then I suggest you write to your school district to have them put on an informational seminar, if you think it is so necessary. Many many many many kids are aware of drano bombs and manage to not bring one to school.

 

It is not illegal for you to make a drano bomb, as others have posted. It is only illegal to bring on to school.

 

I am not a fan of one size fits all zero tolerance . But this was dangerous and stupid and reckless, not just 'kids will be kids'.

 

 

Actually, it IS illegal to make a drano bomb it turns out. It is considered a bomb, and it is illegal to make, possess, or set one off. At home, wherever. That's what I found out yesterday. If you, as an adult, didn't know the law on this, how can we expect teens to know it?

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again this is a 16 year old, not an 8 year old. A 16 year old high school student has presumably passed middle school physical science where this would have been covered. I do not see this as a "teachable moment" for academic subjects.

 

 

16, 8, it matters not. The chemical reaction should still be explained. A presumption of knowledge should not be assumed.

 

Diann

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Actually, it IS illegal to make a drano bomb it turns out. It is considered a bomb, and it is illegal to make, possess, or set one off. At home, wherever. That's what I found out yesterday. If you, as an adult, didn't know the law on this, how can we expect teens to know it?

 

 

 

It is written on the bottle that it is against federal law to use for purposes other than cleaning toilets or drains depending on the product. You are expected to follow that direction and should be held accountable if you don't. I do not care that this happened to be a victimless crime, bomb building should never occur at at a school.

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16, 8, it matters not. The chemical reaction should still be explained. A presumption of knowledge should not be assumed.

 

Diann

 

Do we have to start at zero to evaluate every act. What if the person had been an 18 year old senior, would we presume he didn't know any physical science. Where do you draw the line.

 

I think the person is in high school and so it can be presumed she has upper elementary/middle school science knowledge.

 

More importantly we can expect a knowledge a the school's discipline policies (in my local district students and parents must sign every single year).

 

She did something incredibly dumb and incredibly dangerous. If she has a clean record I don't see a felony charge sticking. So, she will be able to finish high school and not have a record and go to college. Her life is not ruined. Hopefully, she will learn to think first.

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I have to say, my 13 year old didn't know what a Drano bomb was, and he is all over youtube and Facebook. (I believe him that he didn't know, because he would have delighted greatly in once again knowing something his clueless out of touch mom didn't know...trust me). If someone had described it to him I'm sure he would have thought it was like the mentos and diet coke thing. He loves to watch mythbusters and would have totally wanted to do this. I would have let him, maybe, if he wore eye protection, long sleeves/pants, and stood way back, etc. Neither one of us would have thought we were comitting a felony!!! We would NOT have realized we were making a bomb! Even if we knew it was called htat we wouldn't have thought it was REALLY a bomb. Should she be in trouble for doing something dangerous? Of course. Should she have her chances at going to a good college ruined, and maybe go to jail? No.

 

I agree. My 13 year old just walked into the room. She's on Facebook and YouTube a lot and hadn't heard of it. I asked her what she would think happen if someone suggested she combine foil with toilet cleaner in a bottle. She had no clue.

 

I've been on Facebook and YouTube for years as well. I've never heard of a "Drano Bomb" or the "Works Bomb." Never.

 

 

I think this is another example of a school and the law going WAY overboard. When we were in school, I think they would have taken her record, or lack of record, into account and suspended her for a few days.

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Riiiight. Like bombs are covered in middle school either?

 

I don't think any kid should be assumed to know common toilet cleaner (not drain clog clearer) and aluminum foil in an empty 12-16 oz water bottle is going to create a dangerous explosion.

 

It is common knowledge youth do stupid crap because they think they are invincible and or that something will just be a fun thrill, not that one time a hand got blown off.

 

It is common knowledge almost no one takes the time to read warning labels, or even directions. And only a slightly higher number of people read the plethora of paperwork they are required to sign. I would expect it to be slightly worse for youth, not better. Even the assembles were a gosh awful bore that we either slept through or chatted and passed notes through, or if you were me, you doodled or read some Bronte.

 

Then there is the fact that youth aren't known for thinking things through thoroughly or farsightedly. She may or may not have known it had some potential to explode, but that doesn't mean that's what she was thinking or looking for a big explosion. It is highly possible her thought process boiled down to, "huh really it'll blow the top off? Huh I wonder how high the lid will go..."

 

Not one person is saying she didn't do something stupid. She sure did.

 

Not one person is saying no level of punitive reaction is reasonable.

 

Several people, myself included, are saying it's beyond excessive the police were even called, much less bringing charges.

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This occured in in our county. In fact, I went to this high school. I'm torn on this. I can see the cause for concern, yet at the same time, I don't think there was malicious intent.

 

What is most disturbing and is causing quite a stir is how they printed this girl's address. Here is the local article. Seems that most of the commenters agree that the punishment may be too harsh.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20130423/NEWS/304235005/0/FRONTPAGE

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None of my kids thought anything like this either. And a few of them take trade and college classes.

 

I brought them in and asked:

 

If I put some toilet cleaner and a few balls of aluminum foil into an empty water bottle and then put the lid back on, what do you think might happen, if anything?

 

Out of 6 children grades 5 and up, one (age 13) queried, "An explosion?"

 

Me: "really? What kind of explosion? How strong or bad would expect it to be?"

 

Him: "Not much. It might fuzz around the lid, the lid might blow off or the side might crack open and spill.". (notice the completely different comprehension of explosion)

 

Another son (age 17) added, " if there was lots of pressure, the sides might bust apart and send stuff shooting out."

 

Me: "How bad do you think that would be? Would expect it to be dangerous?"

 

Son: "what? From a water bottle? No way. How bad could an aluminum ball hurt? At worst maybe a sting like when a small waffle ball hits you?" (again, a completely different concept of shooting and explosion danger)

 

Me: "what about the toilet cleaner?"

 

Son: "oh geez. Idk, I guess it would irritate your eyes if you were really close enough to get sprayed by it, which would be stupid."

 

All of these kids have had what are considered decent science for their grades, physical, biology, some chemistry, and one is starting physic 1 at the community college. So not genius, but not stupid, basicly your average kid.

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She did something incredibly dumb and incredibly dangerous. If she has a clean record I don't see a felony charge sticking. So, she will be able to finish high school and not have a record and go to college. Her life is not ruined. Hopefully, she will learn to think first.

 

 

I'm totally not up on how this works, but won't an expulsion pretty much ruin her chances at a decent college? I can't imagine that wouldn't effect it, but maybe I was brainwashed by the threat of "going on your permanent record" as a kid.

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Lab safety, chemical reactions, and problems with common chemicals are part of middle school science curriculums.

 

 

No it isn't.

 

Lab safety is basicly to wear goggles and not mess with stuff in the lab unless directed to and exactly as directed to.

 

Toilet cleaner is common and it has chemicals in it. But no one views it as a chemical. Just like the mentos and coke bottle thing is chemical, but if anyone asked a kid or adult what chemical mentos are they would probably stare blankly at the questioner.

 

Most kids know baking soda and vinigar is good for volcanos and small bottle rockets. And that's often the extent of their labs with common chemicals. Neat. When huge maybe a mess and theoretically dangerous, but not often. And certainly not to a teen who is invisible.

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I'm torn on the situation. Yes, it's terrible that they're coming down so hard on her. On the other hand, if they just give her a slap on the wrist, they're basically saying that it's okay to make bombs at school, as long as they're little bombs. Given how idiotic teenagers seem to be nowadays, I'd rather see one kid in huge trouble than a rash of homemade bombs in schools because the consequences aren't that bad. And it's not like she drew a picture of a bomb, or was reading a book on bomb-making. She actually made a bomb. In my mind, this is the kind of action where a zero-tolerance policy should be applied.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I have to wonder, would fireworks also be considered bombs? They explode. They can cause injuries similar too, or worse than, these chemical bottle bombs. Would the reaction be the same? ( I don't have an answer to that...just wondering now.)

 

 

Absolutely -- at least I should hope so! Kids shouldn't be bringing fireworks to school, either.

 

 

Actually, it IS illegal to make a drano bomb it turns out. It is considered a bomb, and it is illegal to make, possess, or set one off. At home, wherever. That's what I found out yesterday. If you, as an adult, didn't know the law on this, how can we expect teens to know it?

 

 

She knew she was making a bomb. She is 16. And she didn't do it in her chemistry class. She did it on school property. It was probably intended as a stupid prank, but with all the publicity about Boston lately, there's no way in the world that this kid didn't know that she was breaking school rules and that what she was doing was setting off an explosive device.

 

Again, she's 16, not 10. A 16 year-old knows what a bomb is. And a 16yo knows that setting off a bomb at school is a very, very bad thing to do. Period. Without question.

 

Lots of good kids end up doing a lot of damage with pranks like this. I'm not saying she should go to prison, but I do believe that, as has already been said, there needs to be a middle ground that won't ruin her entire life, but that will still serve to discourage other kids from doing the same idiotic thing.

 

Katie, you seem to be defending this girl, but if she pulled that stunt at a school where my ds was attending, I'd want her out of there. I don't believe for a minute that she didn't know that the thing she made would explode. Of course she knew. And she did it anyway.

 

It's easy to say it's no big deal because no one was hurt, but the fact is, people could have been hurt. Is the offense only punishable if there's a body count attached to it? Because I'm sure no one would be sticking up for this girl if another student had been walking by when that thing exploded, and ended up in the hospital as a result.

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Lots of good kids end up doing a lot of damage with pranks like this. I'm not saying she should go to prison, but I do believe that, as has already been said, there needs to be a middle ground that won't ruin her entire life, but that will still serve to discourage other kids from doing the same idiotic thing.

 

 

 

Having some opportunities narrowed does not mean all opportunities are eliminated. A kid can do something as stupid as this, have it on his school record and still go to college. This may need to be something she explains in college essays (some smaller selective schools actually read essays) and it may be essential that she go on admission interviews. It may mean she has to complete an associates at the community college before going to a 4 year institution. There will be a consequence, but if she desires go on to higher ed, she will not be prevented from doing so. She may need to go a more circuitous route.

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I would defend her even if someone got hurt.

 

And yes, usually actual damage has to result to cause offense.

 

I send my teens out to drive. They came home. God only knows how that could end for them or someone else. But I don't decide to remove the keys because they could have had an accident hurting themselves or someone else.

 

And if they had an accident based on inexperience and youth, which most accidents under 20 tend to be, I would not expect them to end up in prison or to never drive again. Learn from it, make any damages right as possible, and move on.

 

Again, seriously people, do none of you ever remember how stupid it is to be young? How bad things happened to other people in other places?

 

I don't care about what insanity is prompting PARENTS to be scared, it doesn't change the development of the average teen brain from when we were that age. They are still going to do the same stupid stuff as previous generations.

 

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Kids can learn to read labels on things-that-might-be-poisonous long before age 16. Here, Drano Bombs were in the news for awhile because a bunch of punks were putting them in mailboxes! So I knew what they were, my kids knew what they were.

 

Kids should be getting these warnings. In my world, they do.

 

Science class: Remember, never do a chemical experiment without supervision. Some chemicals must not be mixed. Some materials must not be changed with heat. Things react with other things, and until you know how, you don't play around. Experiments happen here at the table with the teacher, the fire extinguisher, the eyewash station, and the goggles.

 

Around the home: It's your turn to clean the bathroom, here's how, BTW we never mix bleach and ammonia. Here are products with bleach. Here are products with ammonia. You can read it on the label. Never mix them. Here are Mr. Yuk stickers, this means poison. Poisons are tools, not toys. We don't experiment with them, taste them, smell them, breathe them, or fool people with them. We keep poisons in their original containers so we can read the labels.

 

Safety classes through Civil Air Patrol or Boy Scouts: Now, students, here are the idiotic things that your peers are doing that you need to not do lest you die.

 

Health class in school. Every textbook I've seen for health includes safety information about things like first aid, poisons, and dangerous situations. Probably there's not a precaution for everything anyone might conjure up or post on youtube, but the idea of being responsible for the safety of oneself and others is in health books.

 

So the whole universe says, "Don't be stupid, you might hurt somebody, and notice there are warning labels on stuff." The universe also says, "There are rules everywhere and mistakes have consequences so pay attention."

 

Sixteen. Not six. Nearly an adult, legally. Old enough to drive, old enough to supervise young children, teach Sunday school, graduate early, go to community college. Sixteen.

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Around the home: It's your turn to clean the bathroom, here's how, BTW we never mix bleach and ammonia. Here are products with bleach. Here are products with ammonia. You can read it on the label. Never mix them. Here are Mr. Yuk stickers, this means poison. Poisons are tools, not toys. We don't experiment with them, taste them, smell them, breathe them, or fool people with them. We keep poisons in their original containers so we can read the labels.

 

 

 

 

This part of your post makes me wonder if my kids know any of the dangers listed in this thread. We do not keep bleach, ammonia, or any other harsh cleaners in this house so we do not have these discussions. My dds clean but it is with baking soda and vinegar.

 

Oldest is in ps and they often do experiments and dissections, but they have not watched any safety videos. I can only assume the teacher has discussed not mixing things or what kinds of chemicals/cleaners can be dangerous. But I don't know for certain if she knows any of these things. :huh:

 

ETA: There is also no health class here. I believe those things are discussed at some point during PE class, but I waive her from PE so she can take an extra elective that she wants/needs.

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I don't buy ammonia.

 

Almost no body reads warning labels. They buy whatever cleaner is on sale and use it.

 

Many adults do not know how hazardous it can be to mix cleaners when cleaning. It's very common.

 

Skull & crossbones means don't eat/drink to most people.

 

I'm not saying that is smart.

 

I'm saying its common enough that I would not presume the average adult knows those things or lives that way and I sure would not assume it of a 16 year old. 16. Not a moment of having lived on her own and had to make toilet cleaner product evaluation decisions. She's probably never given it a thought beyond, "ugh. Moms making me clean the toilet." Grabbing whatever is under the sink and using it. 16

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again this is a 16 year old, not an 8 year old. A 16 year old high school student has presumably passed middle school physical science where this would have been covered. I do not see this as a "teachable moment" for academic subjects.

 

 

This is not taught in my school district at that age. All science, 1-8th grade is one chapter per week, read, take a vocabulary test. Lab experiences are not on bubble tests so no time is spent on them. The middle school science labs are closed and drawing dust.

 

So, while 16 seems rather old for not knowing this, if she were a student here, I would have a high expectation that she would NOT have been introduced to this in an academic environment. The local superintendent is so afraid of lawsuits/liability, that the high school chemistry class only has six lab experiences per year and the worst substances they work with is vinegar and baking soda...the kids are bored to death. When they test acids and bases using purple cabbage water, the teacher has to bring it prepared from home because he won't allow them to boil water because someone could get burned - there is no amount of safety gear that assuages the man's paranoia.

 

Yet, every year they list this class as "lab based" on student transcripts. LIARS!

 

I weep, truly weep, for the state of educational affairs for this generation. If it's possible to make them "dumb as fence posts", to coin a local phrase, then this is the goal of my local PS. The local teachers state the reading level for most of last year's graduating class was 5th grade with only 15% of the class reading at a high school level. If the student only thinks and reads at a 5th grade level - 10 or 11 years of age, would that change the perspective? I no longer assume 16 year olds know much of anything or are capable of logical thinking.

 

Maybe the answer to safety solutions on America's campuses is to stop embracing draconian punitive actions and start actually teaching kids to read and think. But, there I go thinking again! :glare:

 

Remember, two districts west of me, a 4th grader did end up expelled for the year - yes, that was the final outcome - for the cupcakes with the green, plastic, army men toys on top. The school decided to make an example of him.

 

The parents of this 16 year old need to pull her out of school and start teaching her some logical thinking skills and maybe, just maybe, head to Brazil. This kid has very little chance because this has hit the national media. Remember, when future employers do their usual background checks, google search, etc. it is very likely this will come up. She needs to be properly educated, and she definitely needs to understand the gravity of her actions, but this needs to happen some place where there is a chance she can move forward.

 

Faith

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I hope this girl doesn't get a jury of home educating mothers.

 

I heard she eats her pop tarts into gun shapes, too.

 

 

She couldn't be luckier than to get a jury of home educating mothers because 100% of us thought the proposed punishment does not fit the crime. Nobody here thinks she should go to prison or pay a $250,000 fine. Everyone said her reputation and intent ought to have some bearing. The majority thought the punishment should be meted out by the school instead of by the judicial system.

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:iagree:

 

 

 

Absolutely -- at least I should hope so! Kids shouldn't be bringing fireworks to school, either.

 

 

 

 

She knew she was making a bomb. She is 16. And she didn't do it in her chemistry class. She did it on school property. It was probably intended as a stupid prank, but with all the publicity about Boston lately, there's no way in the world that this kid didn't know that she was breaking school rules and that what she was doing was setting off an explosive device.

 

Again, she's 16, not 10. A 16 year-old knows what a bomb is. And a 16yo knows that setting off a bomb at school is a very, very bad thing to do. Period. Without question.

 

Lots of good kids end up doing a lot of damage with pranks like this. I'm not saying she should go to prison, but I do believe that, as has already been said, there needs to be a middle ground that won't ruin her entire life, but that will still serve to discourage other kids from doing the same idiotic thing.

 

Katie, you seem to be defending this girl, but if she pulled that stunt at a school where my ds was attending, I'd want her out of there. I don't believe for a minute that she didn't know that the thing she made would explode. Of course she knew. And she did it anyway.

 

It's easy to say it's no big deal because no one was hurt, but the fact is, people could have been hurt. Is the offense only punishable if there's a body count attached to it? Because I'm sure no one would be sticking up for this girl if another student had been walking by when that thing exploded, and ended up in the hospital as a result.

 

 

So fireworks are bombs? But not illegal? Not felonies for sure. But these things are. How many people here on this list knew that before this thread? I think there were a few people, but the majority of ADULTS on this thread did NOT realize that this combo was considered a bomb and would result in a felony charge if we made one. So if we, as adults, didn't know this, why do you keep insisting that all 16 year olds would know this?

 

As for danger, I searched quite a bit, and the most I could find that was reliable rather than facebook/emails was from the CDC, several years ago, and there were very few reported injuries. Far fewer than those caused by fireworks each year, but those are not considered felonies. (unless you get the illegal kind). So I can see how this wouldn't be obvious to a kid. Like I said, most of the adults on here, and everyone I've talked to about this, had NO idea this was illegal. So why you think all teens should realize it, i don't know.

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http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/2013/05/01/how-to-repel-students-from-science/

 

I thought this was a great commentary on this.

 

FWIW, I was raised by a PhD high temperature chemist and a biologist-and grew up both experimenting and seeped in how to do so safety. There are some parts of high school chem, that, when DD gets there, she'll be doing on vacation so she can do them in a formal lab with a fume hood, glove boxes, and so on. I wouldn't have thought of mixing drain cleaner and aluminum foil.

 

But I'm betting some of the experiments that my parents DID encourage would be in violation of some law these days.

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It's disgusting that the local paper and any media could publish her name, picture, and address! She's a minor.

 

Unless the parents had released it to the media in hopes a story would get them sympathy and a reversal of school board decision. It is a strategy I have seen families employ where I live.

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It's disgusting that the local paper and any media could publish her name, picture, and address! She's a minor.

 

I wondered about that as well. Could it be that the family wanted thier side out in the media and allowed it?

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This is not taught in my school district at that age. All science, 1-8th grade is one chapter per week, read, take a vocabulary test. Lab experiences are not on bubble tests so no time is spent on them. The middle school science labs are closed and drawing dust.

So, while 16 seems rather old for not knowing this, if she were a student here, I would have a high expectation that she would NOT have been introduced to this in an academic environment. The local superintendent is so afraid of lawsuits/liability, that the high school chemistry class only has six lab experiences per year and the worst substances they work with is vinegar and baking soda...the kids are bored to death. When they test acids and bases using purple cabbage water, the teacher has to bring it prepared from home because he won't allow them to boil water because someone could get burned - there is no amount of safety gear that assuages the man's paranoia.

Yet, every year they list this class as "lab based" on student transcripts. LIARS!

I weep, truly weep, for the state of educational affairs for this generation. If it's possible to make them "dumb as fence posts", to coin a local phrase, then this is the goal of my local PS. The local teachers state the reading level for most of last year's graduating class was 5th grade with only 15% of the class reading at a high school level. If the student only thinks and reads at a 5th grade level - 10 or 11 years of age, would that change the perspective? I no longer assume 16 year olds know much of anything or are capable of logical thinking.

Maybe the answer to safety solutions on America's campuses is to stop embracing draconian punitive actions and start actually teaching kids to read and think. But, there I go thinking again! :glare:

Remember, two districts west of me, a 4th grader did end up expelled for the year - yes, that was the final outcome - for the cupcakes with the green, plastic, army men toys on top. The school decided to make an example of him.

The parents of this 16 year old need to pull her out of school and start teaching her some logical thinking skills and maybe, just maybe, head to Brazil. This kid has very little chance because this has hit the national media. Remember, when future employers do their usual background checks, google search, etc. it is very likely this will come up. She needs to be properly educated, and she definitely needs to understand the gravity of her actions, but this needs to happen some place where there is a chance she can move forward.

Faith

 

You're making me scared to leave the house, Faith!

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Another point of view (I'm squarely in agreement with those that say the disciplinary actions are appropriate, so no need to further state it)....

 

For those that are saying the punishment is too harsh and she's just a child who did something stupid, let me ask you this.

 

What if she was in the classroom? What if she had done, as was done just very recently, and started to flicker a lighter near an open flammable source in a chemistry classroom? What if it blew up as a result? Would you still be crying that the punishment was too harsh and that she "only did something stupid"?

 

You see, this actually happened in a classroom recently. Student was playing with the ignition source that lights Bunsen burners and heats things by flickering a lighter in front of the gas outlet. BOOM would have been an understatement. The child's parents screamed the same--he did something stupid, he's sorry, it was just curiosity, he's only a child...etc....

 

What if that teacher had not caught him in time (only takes a few seconds for it to actually go boom, guys)? Would you have been screaming the same?

 

That's why her punishment is appropriate. She was not just stupid, she was really stupid and knew full well what would have happened. She deserves her punishment. And so did the kid playing with an open flame source near an open gas source (for full record: the student turned on the gas source without the teacher's instruction and did this while teacher's back was turned. They were not using the burners that day so student had no business touching them).

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You're making me scared to leave the house, Faith!

 

:smash: :smash: :smash: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :willy_nilly: This is me when trying to reason with school board members.

 

You would be scared if you knew how bad things were down the road.

 

Creekland agrees that my school district gets the National Dnce Cap Award!

 

Faith

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Another point of view (I'm squarely in agreement with those that say the disciplinary actions are appropriate, so no need to further state it)....

 

For those that are saying the punishment is too harsh and she's just a child who did something stupid, let me ask you this.

 

What if she was in the classroom? What if she had done, as was done just very recently, and started to flicker a lighter near an open flammable source in a chemistry classroom? What if it blew up as a result? Would you still be crying that the punishment was too harsh and that she "only did something stupid"?

 

You see, this actually happened in a classroom recently. Student was playing with the ignition source that lights Bunsen burners and heats things by flickering a lighter in front of the gas outlet. BOOM would have been an understatement. The child's parents screamed the same--he did something stupid, he's sorry, it was just curiosity, he's only a child...etc....

 

What if that teacher had not caught him in time (only takes a few seconds for it to actually go boom, guys)? Would you have been screaming the same?

 

That's why her punishment is appropriate. She was not just stupid, she was really stupid and knew full well what would have happened. She deserves her punishment. And so did the kid playing with an open flame source near an open gas source (for full record: the student turned on the gas source without the teacher's instruction and did this while teacher's back was turned. They were not using the burners that day so student had no business touching them).

 

 

Actually, I would still be saying the same. I strongly believe minors should be treated as minors. Adults should be treated as adults. Children/Minors are considered minors for a reason, they are not adults. That is why the rules are different for them to begin with, they do dumb stuff. very dumb stuff. Sometimes they even do some really horrifying stuff, they are still kids. If we are going to start treating minors as adults then they should have the rights and responsibilities of adults to begin with. Zero tolerance is not only not helpful, but harmful.

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