What is "tomato staking"?

[UncleEJ]

I've seen this mentioned and I'm not sure I know what it is...

[stripe]

Keeping your kid close to you at all times.

[Crimson Wife]

How is this different from "helicoptering"? Or is it just the same thing only different terminology? :confused1:

 

I've only heard the term "tomato staking" used here, whereas "helicoptering" I've heard all over.

[AnIslandGirl]

I feel like "tomato staking" is keeping your child close to you at all times (as in never out of your sight close) so that you can re-direct negative behavior before it escalates. Once your child has shown either emotional growth, maturity, or is just over the stage of needing constant supervision, they are given a bigger area to free-range. Some children need to be tomato-staked due to poor behavior or a lack of good decision making, wile others may need it only during school time to help them keep on task.

[Kathryn]

I feel like "tomato staking" is keeping your child close to you at all times (as in never out of your sight close) so that you can re-direct negative behavior before it escalates. Once your child has shown either emotional growth, maturity, or is just over the stage of needing constant supervision, they are given a bigger area to free-range. Some children need to be tomato-staked due to poor behavior or a lack of good decision making, wile others may need it only during school time to help them keep on task.

 

 

This is how I've heard it used. Being a "helicopter parent," on the other hand, is a term I see associated with being overly nervous that something will happen to your precious snowflake.

[bolt.]

Tomato staking is short term, and (in its original form from 'raising godly tomatoes') incredibly punishment-oriented. It involves requiring he child to follow the parent on all of the parent's daily tasks and agenda, within arms reach, so that the parent can modify the child's "character" by being instantly able to correctively 'swat' (hit) the child for the slightest indication of bad attitude, such as facial expressions.

 

Most people of more moderate sensibilities have taken up the term for keeping a child near at hand as they are overcoming a behavior struggle -- a struggle that needs 100% supervision to interfere with a bad habit (ie coloring on one's self) or a behavior that means they must always be supervised around other children (ie violent biting).

 

The moderate version tends to invole the parent supervising the child activities for the most part (not so much carrying on with an adult agenda, though some things must be done) and active teaching around, and prevention of, a specific troubling behavior (not attitude and facial expressions)... Hopefully without the hitting. Most kids are in the best space for learning when they are not in constant fear of stinging pain for small slip ups.

 

I don't like to use the term tomato staking, lest people imagine I am reccomending such a technique based mainly on minor pain and the fear of being hurt... Even though the idea of a short term of close supervision can be good (if done in a way that encourages the child positively).

[TKDmom]

Here's where it comes from:

 

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch07.php

 

ETA: I can't say that I agree with all the aspects of tomato staking. But I see the difference between tomato staking and helicopter parenting as this: with tomato staking, your child is with you, helping you with your chores or doing whatever you are doing. I think of helicopter parenting as a parent who follows their child around doing what the child wants and hovering to make sure they are never hurt or disappointed. So while the parent is always with the child in both cases, the parent's mindset is completely the opposite.

[Murphy101]

How it is implemented varies some, but basicly all tomato staking is is making the child(ren) stay by your side as much as possible. The concept being that it provides a two prong approach to problems. One, the parent is right there is immediately correct misbehavior and, secondly, the parent has constant opportunity to encourage positive behavior and bond with a child that is maybe being rebellious or pulling away from parents. It is less about punishing a child and more about putting the parent in a position where they must be and can more easily be consistent with a child.

 

Simple really. And often very effective IME.

[Lolosoli]

Tomato staking is short term, and (in its original form from 'raising godly tomatoes') incredibly punishment-oriented. It involves requiring he child to follow the parent on all of the parent's daily tasks and agenda, within arms reach, so that the parent can modify the child's "character" by being instantly able to correctively 'swat' (hit) the child for the slightest indication of bad attitude, such as facial expressions.

 

Most people of more moderate sensibilities have taken up the term for keeping a child near at hand as they are overcoming a behavior struggle -- a struggle that needs 100% supervision to interfere with a bad habit (ie coloring on one's self) or a behavior that means they must always be supervised around other children (ie violent biting).

 

The moderate version tends to invole the parent supervising the child activities for the most part (not so much carrying on with an adult agenda, though some things must be done) and active teaching around, and prevention of, a specific troubling behavior (not attitude and facial expressions)... Hopefully without the hitting. Most kids are in the best space for learning when they are not in constant fear of stinging pain for small slip ups.

 

I don't like to use the term tomato staking, lest people imagine I am reccomending such a technique based mainly on minor pain and the fear of being hurt... Even though the idea of a short term of close supervision can be good (if done in a way that encourages the child positively).

 

 

That is exactly it!

 

About ten years ago, out of curiousity, I joined their private message board to see what is was all about....a secret one for "members" only. I'm a strong advocate against any form of punishment...but, I was interested in what the term was after hearing it many times on a pareting boards. I lied with some of the answers in order to "be allowed in the message boards"...but, that is a whole different situation!!! LOL

 

Anyways...it was full of reasons and ways to train (abuse) children....with the "training through hitting" starting while they are infants!

 

There were even discussions on ways of "setting them up" to do bad while at home so that when out and about they will be trained. For example, having a very young child (under age one) sitting on your lap. If they move, cry, fuss, try to get down, they are to be hit. This training is to go on for the amount of time it would take to "sit still" in church or a doctors office. Once they have learned if they move, cry, try to get down, fuss or they will be slapped and are obeying...it then gets moved to "pinching" for punishment instead of hitting. The reason is because pinching can be done in secret and noboby will know!

 

It is recommended through them that punishments are begin when an infant first shows signs of fussing, turning over, and not wanting their diapers changed....that is a sign of defiance and that is when hitting hard on the buttocks with an object first should begin.

 

It is basically a different version of "The Pearl" type way of punishing children.

[Katy]

Interesting. I thought tomato staking was more bond-related: teach your children to adapt to your lifestyle by constantly being with you - you can correct them easily, but with less stress, and they adapt to your socialization rather than being wild. But I probably got that idea from leash training puppies before I had kids, not from a parenting manual.

 

I thought helicopter parenting was something overzealous parents who are more interested in living vicariously through their kids rather than teaching them how to be independent successful adults do - doing their homework, fighting every battle for them, micromanaging their every action, even after they move across the country to college. Like that girl who won a restraining order against her parents last year.

[bolt.]

We should make up our own words to mean "tomato staking but for supervision, positive teaching, and bonding, not for hitting" -- I'd really worry about seeming to approve of the 'good parts' of a 'godly tomatoes' technique while just hoping people don't jump in to all of it.

 

Like, "have a few close-teaching days" or "keep him/her hip-to-hip with you for a day or two" -- it's hard to think of something new when there is already a memorable term 'out there'.

[twoxcell]

Whenever I hear that term it sounds painful to me. :leaving:

[TracyP]

Hmm, interesting. I read the book at the linked site 3 years ago and it has been the most useful parenting method. The author never mentions hitting and I actually got the vibe from the book that she was a non-spanker. I wonder if she edited that out or if the message boards had a different flavor. I read it as being incredibly bond-related...

 

OP, I think you could get the gist of it from Martha's post. It is so effective. I just turn my little kids into my buddies. They hang out or help where I can see them - it is not a punishment. The more trustworthy they are, the more they can gain freedom though we often choose to work/play together anyway. I *often* (as in almost continually) tomato stake my 2 yo, but my 9yo hasn't been tomato staked since she was 7 or so. .

[msjones]

I'd never heard of 'tomato staking' involving any hitting or punishment at all. My understanding was that the child (who needed to work on a specific behavior issue) would be close to mom throughout the day -- they could work together, talk together, and the child would learn through this. I've done that a few times, and it has been wonderful.

[Spy Car]

I think it is not a term that ordinarily means short-term close supervision of a child in response to a particular incident type of parenting philosophy (which would be a reasonable response), even if it is sometimes used that way casually (and unfortunately).

 

Rather "tomato-staking" describes a highly punitive (often abusive) worldview that believes children are "of a sin nature" and can not be given an inch of freedom by parents. It is a form of "parenting" that is very prone to encourage the mental and physical abuse of children. And is very dangerous.

 

If what you mean is "temporally close scrutiny" you might do well to use a less heavily loaded term.

 

Bill

 

 

[UncleEJ]

Wow! I inadvertently open a can of worms! Thank you all for the replies. Based on the context I have heard it mentioned here, I was thinking of it along the lines of keep DC close at all time for a while to bond and work on a behavior issue. I have never heard of the "raising godly tomatoes". That is a bit extreme in my opinion.

 

Seems like the term "tomato staking" is pretty loaded.....maybe "sweet pea staking" ;-)

[Kathryn]

I don't get the whole physical punishment thing. I thought the analogy was to gardening where you tie the tomato plant to a stake. I don't recall ever hitting my tomato plants.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wow! I inadvertently open a can of worms! Thank you all for the replies. Based on the context I have heard it mentioned here, I was thinking of it along the lines of keep DC close at all time for a while to bond and work on a behavior issue. I have never heard of the "raising godly tomatoes". That is a bit extreme in my opinion.

 

Seems like the term "tomato staking" is pretty loaded.....maybe "sweet pea staking" ;-)

 

 

I don't think it has to be loaded. Just because there are tomatoes doesn't mean that people have to throw them. . . Most people, if they aren't just having a knee-jerk reaction to a term can tell from people's posts if they are thinking of this as punitive or (more likely) as something intended to guide the child into better decisions.

[Anne]

I must say that this is the first time I have *ever* heard about hitting in regards to tomato staking!! I have always heard it used and used it myself to mean a period of time when the parent keeps the child close to her (or him!) for training, bonding, or safety, or some combination thereof.

 

Anne

[msjones]

Maybe 'apron string parenting' would create a gentler image?

 

I'll say that close-proximity parenting has brought me more success than any other kind. When I've had a significant struggle of some sort with my child, it's a very good thing to spend a day or two with him 'tied to my apron strings.' It's good for both of us.

[bolt.]

Quotes from the original inventor of "tomato staking" (not the way other people might mean it or use it)...

 

"I just keep them near me... The point of tomato staking is to keep them close enough so that I can catch any further misdeeds (even the smallest ugly look on a face, for example), IMMEDIATELY and correct it IMMEDIATELY. The tomato staking helps me to be CONSISTENT."

 

What is the immediate correction? Perhaps something verbal? Or hitting the child?

 

Aparently, with toddlers, yes, always hitting:

 

"a bit older, usually about 1 1/2, and begin to deliberately choose to disobey me, I usually pick a day to start and then correct them EVERY SINGLE TIME, with a small swat on the rear end. I do not get angry, I do not wait until they've pushed me to my limit, I do not count to 10, I do not reserve these spanking for only the really big issues. I correct them EVERY TIME they choose to disobey me in ANYTHING I have asked them to do. THEN I see to it that they DO obey me (if they refuse, they get another swat)."

 

But not nessisarily always hitting, all the time, at every age.

 

"WATCH:

Keep your child with you.

Keep them close enough to hear and see.

Keep them close enough to correct promptly.

Study their face.

Learn their body language.

Read their heart in all the outward signs.

 

AMBUSH:

Correct promptly.

Correct at the first sign of a heart problem.

A verbal rebuke NOW may be all that's needed.

An immediate swat might be needed if this is a repeat or serious offense.

Don't warn, correct.

 

REPEAT:

Don't do this "now and then".

Don't do this only for the big stuff.

Catch and correct EVERY offense.

You might want to vary the exact correction, but correct EVERY time.

...

Swatting (whether it is mild or firm) is what you do to TRAIN. It is for teaching, not for punishing."

 

Source:

http://raisinggodlytomatoes.com/problems-misc.php

 

 

[ErinE]

I don't "tomato-stake" because I find the raising godly tomatoes philosophy distasteful. I keep my children close if there is a pattern of behavior that needs supervision. I call it "Mommy's Good Friend."

 

The child stays near me, playing with toys, helping with chores, and any other typical activities. This way I can help the child correct his behavior quickly and I don't get second-hand reports.

[I.Dup.]

Swatting and tomato staking definitely go together in the original sense, as the PP quoted from the website. I do think it's a stretch to say these parents are "abusing" their kids, although I'm sure we can have a whole 'nother discussion on whether spanking constitutes as "hitting" and "abuse," and I'm not about to be the one to start it. ;)

 

The main part of tomato staking is keeping them within about 3 feet so you can correct them. That can mean anything from a verbal correction to a spank, although a spank is often the most efficient and quick method (so says these parents- I am not a great tomato staker myself).

[Spy Car]

Quotes from the original inventor of "tomato staking" (not the way other people might mean it or use it)...

 

"I just keep them near me... The point of tomato staking is to keep them close enough so that I can catch any further misdeeds (even the smallest ugly look on a face, for example), IMMEDIATELY and correct it IMMEDIATELY. The tomato staking helps me to be CONSISTENT."

 

What is the immediate correction? Perhaps something verbal? Or hitting the child?

 

Aparently, with toddlers, yes, always hitting:

 

"a bit older, usually about 1 1/2, and begin to deliberately choose to disobey me, I usually pick a day to start and then correct them EVERY SINGLE TIME, with a small swat on the rear end. I do not get angry, I do not wait until they've pushed me to my limit, I do not count to 10, I do not reserve these spanking for only the really big issues. I correct them EVERY TIME they choose to disobey me in ANYTHING I have asked them to do. THEN I see to it that they DO obey me (if they refuse, they get another swat)."

 

But not nessisarily always hitting, all the time, at every age.

 

"WATCH:

Keep your child with you.

Keep them close enough to hear and see.

Keep them close enough to correct promptly.

Study their face.

Learn their body language.

Read their heart in all the outward signs.

 

AMBUSH:

Correct promptly.

Correct at the first sign of a heart problem.

A verbal rebuke NOW may be all that's needed.

An immediate swat might be needed if this is a repeat or serious offense.

Don't warn, correct.

 

REPEAT:

Don't do this "now and then".

Don't do this only for the big stuff.

Catch and correct EVERY offense.

You might want to vary the exact correction, but correct EVERY time.

...

Swatting (whether it is mild or firm) is what you do to TRAIN. It is for teaching, not for punishing."

 

Source:

http://raisinggodlytomatoes.com/problems-misc.php

 

Thanks for posting details. Raising Godly Tomatoes is a violent and abusive method of parenting.

 

Bill

 

 

[bolt.]

The 'godly tomatoes' philosophy is not anything I would reccomend, because even when I go so far as to "punish" I don't use corporal punishment, and I generally disapprove of corporal punishment towards children.

 

The idea of corporal pain in the role of "teaching" is even more repugnant to me. Who on earth thinks that the best way to teach an intelligent human being a new and complex skill is to let them try, watch them closely, then hit them (not too hard) for each error? That doesn't even make sense, quite apart from being a particularly unkind, and absolutely unnessisary.

 

However, "abuse" is a legal term, the name of a crime. I don't use it unless I see things that actually fit the legal definitions (or, occasionally, a widely accepted definition from professionals in the feild). This method does not fit that criteria, so I will not say anything quite so strong about it.

[TracyP]

Quotes from the original inventor of "tomato staking" (not the way other people might mean it or use it)...

 

 

Source:

http://raisinggodlyt...oblems-misc.php

Thanks for posting this. I clearly don't remember, lol. I was just talking to a friend about this over the weekend and we were trying to figure if she was pro spanking or not.

 

Thanks for posting details. Raising Godly Tomatoes is a violent and abusive method of parenting.

 

Bill

It might not be your (or my) choice of parenting, but language like this is not fair to those living in real violent, abusive situations. :(

[Spy Car]

 

It might not be your (or my) choice of parenting, but language like this is not fair to those living in real violent, abusive situations. :(

 

It is ABUSIVE, and there is no other valid term for it, thank you very much.

 

Bill

[unsinkable]

Quotes from the original inventor of "tomato staking" (not the way other people might mean it or use it)...

 

"I just keep them near me... The point of tomato staking is to keep them close enough so that I can catch any further misdeeds (even the smallest ugly look on a face, for example), IMMEDIATELY and correct it IMMEDIATELY. The tomato staking helps me to be CONSISTENT."

 

What is the immediate correction? Perhaps something verbal? Or hitting the child?

 

Aparently, with toddlers, yes, always hitting:

 

"a bit older, usually about 1 1/2, and begin to deliberately choose to disobey me, I usually pick a day to start and then correct them EVERY SINGLE TIME, with a small swat on the rear end. I do not get angry, I do not wait until they've pushed me to my limit, I do not count to 10, I do not reserve these spanking for only the really big issues. I correct them EVERY TIME they choose to disobey me in ANYTHING I have asked them to do. THEN I see to it that they DO obey me (if they refuse, they get another swat)."

 

But not nessisarily always hitting, all the time, at every age.

 

"WATCH:

Keep your child with you.

Keep them close enough to hear and see.

Keep them close enough to correct promptly.

Study their face.

Learn their body language.

Read their heart in all the outward signs.

 

AMBUSH:

Correct promptly.

Correct at the first sign of a heart problem.

A verbal rebuke NOW may be all that's needed.

An immediate swat might be needed if this is a repeat or serious offense.

Don't warn, correct.

 

REPEAT:

Don't do this "now and then".

Don't do this only for the big stuff.

Catch and correct EVERY offense.

You might want to vary the exact correction, but correct EVERY time.

...

Swatting (whether it is mild or firm) is what you do to TRAIN. It is for teaching, not for punishing."

 

Source:

http://raisinggodlytomatoes.com/problems-misc.php

 

VOMIT

 

PUKE

 

HURL

 

SPEW

 

 

If you you say tomato stake, I don't think tomahto stake; I think of the garbage bolt posted.

[TracyP]

It is ABUSIVE, and there is no other valid term for it, thank you very much.

 

Bill

Would you advocate removing these children from their home?

[unsinkable]

 

Would you advocate removing these children from their home?

 

If someone hits a toddler for the "smallest ugly look" on the face, then I think that person needs a parenting class and monitoring.

[JuanitaL]

I don't get the whole physical punishment thing. I thought the analogy was to gardening where you tie the tomato plant to a stake. I don't recall ever hitting my tomato plants.

That's exactly what I thought. We've been using that term for our dogs when they start messing with each other (they're like little kids tormenting each other), someone tomato stakes the female (it's always the female) by snapping her leash on and holding it so she's unable to look at the male (sometimes it really agitates him she looks at him - imagine Snoopy doing his vulture thing).

[Whereneverever]

I confess I've always been confused about spanking not being hitting. Perhaps I'm missing something, though.

[AnIslandGirl]

 

Would you advocate removing these children from their home?

Yes. Without hesitation.

 

[msjones]

Quotes from the original inventor of "tomato staking" (not the way other people might mean it or use it)...

 

"I just keep them near me... The point of tomato staking is to keep them close enough so that I can catch any further misdeeds (even the smallest ugly look on a face, for example), IMMEDIATELY and correct it IMMEDIATELY. The tomato staking helps me to be CONSISTENT."

 

What is the immediate correction? Perhaps something verbal? Or hitting the child?

 

Aparently, with toddlers, yes, always hitting:

 

"a bit older, usually about 1 1/2, and begin to deliberately choose to disobey me, I usually pick a day to start and then correct them EVERY SINGLE TIME, with a small swat on the rear end. I do not get angry, I do not wait until they've pushed me to my limit, I do not count to 10, I do not reserve these spanking for only the really big issues. I correct them EVERY TIME they choose to disobey me in ANYTHING I have asked them to do. THEN I see to it that they DO obey me (if they refuse, they get another swat)."

 

But not nessisarily always hitting, all the time, at every age.

 

"WATCH:

Keep your child with you.

Keep them close enough to hear and see.

Keep them close enough to correct promptly.

Study their face.

Learn their body language.

Read their heart in all the outward signs.

 

AMBUSH:

Correct promptly.

Correct at the first sign of a heart problem.

A verbal rebuke NOW may be all that's needed.

An immediate swat might be needed if this is a repeat or serious offense.

Don't warn, correct.

 

REPEAT:

Don't do this "now and then".

Don't do this only for the big stuff.

Catch and correct EVERY offense.

You might want to vary the exact correction, but correct EVERY time.

...

Swatting (whether it is mild or firm) is what you do to TRAIN. It is for teaching, not for punishing."

 

Source:

http://raisinggodlyt...oblems-misc.php

 

Oh my.

There you have it.

 

I'm glad most of us seem to have used our own very different versions.

[TracyP]

If someone hits a toddler for the "smallest ugly look" on the face, then I think that person needs a parenting class and monitoring.

Where does it say to hit a toddler for an ugly look?

[unsinkable]

 

Where does it say to hit a toddler for an ugly look?

 

In the material bolt quoted.

[TracyP]

Yes. Without hesitation.

I'm afraid to ask, but where would you like to place these millions of children whose parents swat them on the butt?

[TracyP]

In the material bolt quoted.

Could you quote it for me? You could cut and paste to get it there, but I don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something.

[unsinkable]

 

Could you quote it for me? You could cut and paste to get it there, but I don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Nope, I actually can't. I don't know how to do it on this device.

 

The first line says the ugly look part and the toddler section says the hitting part.

 

 

 

[TracyP]

Nope, I actually can't. I don't know how to do it on this device.

 

The first line says the ugly look part and the toddler section says the hitting part.

Right. Because they are quotes pulled from the book. They are not necessarily related to one another. According to the quote she gives a small swat on the rear end when they deliberately disobey her. She calls an ugly face a "misdeed". Look, I don't agree with all of what is quoted there, but I don't think it should be made into more than what it is. Millions of parents (61-94% depending on how you count it)spank their toddlers for deliberately misbehaving. I am shocked that this is being called abusive.

[unsinkable]

 

Right. Because they are quotes pulled from the book. They are not necessarily related to one another. According to the quote she gives a small swat on the rear end when they deliberately disobey her. She calls an ugly face a "misdeed". Look, I don't agree with all of what is quoted there, but I don't think it should be made into more than what it is. Millions of parents (61-94% depending on how you count it)spank their toddlers for deliberately misbehaving. I am shocked that this is being called abusive.

 

She's a monster. IMO.

 

Play your semantic games with deliberately disobey vs. misdeeds. You won't change my opinion.

[TracyP]

She's a monster. IMO.

 

Play your semantic games with deliberately disobey vs. misdeeds. You won't change my opinion.

This isn't a semantics game. You stated that she hit her toddler for an ugly face. That is simply not the case. You are reading something into it that is not there. I am not trying to convince you that this woman is right. I am asking you to verify your words. I take this to mean that you can't.

[unsinkable]

 

This isn't a semantics game. You stated that she hit her toddler for an ugly face. That is simply not the case. You are reading something into it that is not there. I am not trying to convince you that this woman is right. I am asking you to verify your words. I take this to mean that you can't.

 

It is called an inference.

 

 

[TracyP]

It is called an inference.

 

I call it a stretch.

[unsinkable]

 

I call it a stretch.

 

 

She advocates regularly and consistently HITTING a TODDLER. A TODDLER who is either literally on figuratively tied to her.

 

Play your games, play your games...

[aggieamy]

I had no idea the origins of "tomato staking" and plan to now never use that term. I'm going to use mrsjones term of "apron string parenting'. I like it much better.

[TracyP]

She advocates regularly and consistently HITTING a TODDLER. A TODDLER who is either literally on figuratively tied to her.

 

Play your games, play your games...

 

Which I already said I disagree with.... :confused:

[BarbecueMom]

I don't get the whole physical punishment thing. I thought the analogy was to gardening where you tie the tomato plant to a stake. I don't recall ever hitting my tomato plants.

 

 

You mean you aren't supposed to thwack tomato plants to get them to grow? I thought it would be safer than using chemicals, but yeah, it didn't work last summer.

[aggieamy]

I've got a big kid and her toddler years seem so long ago so I googled 18 month old child just to get a reference to remember what that age was like.

 

Here's a random image I found.

 

 

It makes me feel pretty icky on the inside to think of someone hitting a child that sized for making an ugly face.

 

I fall into the camp of gentle parenting and have never laid a hand on DD but in general I feel like you shouldn't hit anyone that is so young they haven't developed elbows.

[elfgivas]

I had no idea the origins of "tomato staking" and plan to now never use that term. I'm going to use mrsjones term of "apron string parenting'. I like it much better.

 

 

:iagree: and i used the term on this board recently, and had NO IDEA it had violent origins. i now feel dreadful.

 

what i meant was sweet-pea staking..... something sturdy yet flexible, offering guidance and love.....

 

oh my.

ann