At wits end with 3 yr old

[lovinmyboys]

I know these get posted a lot, but I am feeling desperate. DS3 has always been difficult...from his first day of life. Sometimes he seems to be more cooperative, then it goes back to him being on the verge of out of control. I often don't take him out in public because if something doesn't go his way he becomes very disobedient.

 

Lately, it has gotten way worse. In the last 2 days he has broken my iPad screen, scratched open the screen in his bedroom window and left a huge hole, and colored all over his bed, furniture, clothes, and self (literally from head to toe). I don't even know how to handle these situations.

 

I don't think there is any underlying problem. Any help would definitely be appreciated. While my other kids have their own issues, they are nothing like him. I never knew a three year old could bring me to tears.

[BarbecueMom]

Is he 3 1/2? It's the worst.

 

DS4 was very similar, very difficult from birth on. A bit slower than average verbally. Anxious with control issues. Needed lots of exercise, but often ended up so tired he was up all night with night terrors. But something "clicked" in him about a month before turning four. It's like a completely different child from a year and a half ago. He's so pleasant and funny and helpful!

 

Besides just maturation and growth in verbal skills, what helped was:

 

Limiting sugar/juice

No red/yellow food color

Treating spring allergies (he still goes off the deep end on bad pollen days)

Unstructured outdoor time - he doesn't need as much running play as his little brother, and he'd get too exhausted.

Regular, scheduled preschool work. Even though it only takes 30-40 minutes, there's a huge behavior difference between the days we "do school" and the days we don't.

No screen time, unless someone is sick or Mommy is about to blow her stack.

 

DS3 is in the middle of the "terrible 3s" right now, but it's different. He's not as angry (can count on two hands the number of tantrums in his life), but more hyper and destructive. He's always been a bit ahead verbally and lacks the anxiety/control issues. He just needs to be in a gymnastics class, or boot camp.

[Parrothead]

How did he get unsupervised time to color all over himself head to toe and his furniture?

[Amy in NH]

Yep, 3 is the worst.

 

1. Put up all writing tools, scissors, or anything else that could be used for destructive purposes. He should have access only with your direct supervision.

 

2. Know where he is and what he is doing always.

 

3. Keep a tight rein on him in public, and be ready to leave where-ever you are immediately if he begins to misbehave.

[Catwoman]

How did he get unsupervised time to color all over himself head to toe and his furniture?

 

I was wondering the same thing. I mean, seriously, in two days he has has broken your iPad screen, scratched open the screen in his bedroom window and left a huge hole, and colored all over his bed, furniture, clothes, and himself from head to toe? :confused:

 

Where were you while he was doing all this?

 

I'm sorry if I sound critical, but that's a lot of damage for one child to do in just two days, and I can't figure out why he was left unsupervised if he's in the habit of doing destructive things.

 

What am I missing here?

 

I'm sure there's more to the story, because for the life of me, I can't figure out how he gained access to your iPad, and how he "scratched" a huge hole in the screen of his bedroom window. Did he have a knife or sharp scissors? (I only ask this because I couldn't scratch a hole in a window screen without something sharp, so I'm trying to determine how a 3 year-old would have managed it. I would think it would have taken quite a while to do, even with scissors or a knife.)

[lovinmyboys]

The unsupervised time was during rest time in his room. He has it every day for an hour. His room is usually really safe for him to be in..it had a bed, books, and a couple toys. Nothing to climb on or break, etc. well, DS6 colored in there earlier today and cleaned up his stuff. When I put DS3 to bed for rest time I didn't see any markers. Also, usually his window is closed, but today it was nice (and it has been terrible weather) so I left his window open. I really didn't think about the screen, but I did check for makers.

 

Anyway, I do feel like a terrible mom. I checked on him twice during rest time and he was playing nicely. When I went to get him up, I discovered the coloring and broken screen. He was quiet and seemed fine. I don't know.

 

He broke my iPad right in front of me..he just got mad.

[Catwoman]

The unsupervised time was during rest time in his room. He has it every day for an hour. His room is usually really safe for him to be in..it had a bed, books, and a couple toys. Nothing to climb on or break, etc. well, DS6 colored in there earlier today and cleaned up his stuff. When I put DS3 to bed for rest time I didn't see any markers. Also, usually his window is closed, but today it was nice (and it has been terrible weather) so I left his window open. I really didn't think about the screen, but I did check for makers.

 

Anyway, I do feel like a terrible mom. I checked on him twice during rest time and he was playing nicely. When I went to get him up, I discovered the coloring and broken screen. He was quiet and seemed fine. I don't know.

 

He broke my iPad right in front of me..he just got mad.

 

You're not a terrible mom.

 

Really!!!

 

But I do think you might want to re-think the whole "unsupervised one hour rest time" thing for a while. :D

 

I'm sorry about your iPad. :( Little kids often act before they think, so I don't really think it was a huge deal in terms of 3yo behavior -- but it's certainly a big deal because iPads are expensive, though!

 

Honestly, the window thing worries me the most, because he could have fallen out of the window.

[lovinmyboys]

I should add that I rarely have problems with him at rest time. My biggest problem is that he will do stuff when I am right there too...and I am not sure how to handle it. I usually put him in his room when he is being destructive (which is where he was today with the coloring and broken screen) It's like he doesn't care about any consequences.

 

[Parrothead]

The first two just sound like a curious kid doing curious things. I'll freely admit being mad and purposely breaking something would have gotten dd a swat or two on the butt.

 

I don't know what to tell you about nap time. When it was nap time around here dd and I both piled in the bed. I fell asleep after her. We got a two hour nap every day until she was almost 6. Ahhh, good times.

[BarbecueMom]

Anyway, I do feel like a terrible mom. I checked on him twice during rest time and he was playing nicely. When I went to get him up, I discovered the coloring and broken screen. He was quiet and seemed fine. I don't know.

 

Don't feel bad. There are times I hide in the bathroom and accept that I'm likely to walk into a disaster when I get out, but the alternative is supervised tantrums. My tantrum, not theirs.

 

I've caught DS3 hiding crayons up his shirt sleeves before. I don't think he was thinking, "I think I'll save these to deface the house later!" More like, "That fell down my sleeve and felt neat. I think I'll try it again!" Then two hours later he remembers his hidden arsenal...

[Catwoman]

I should add that I rarely have problems with him at rest time. My biggest problem is that he will do stuff when I am right there too...and I am not sure how to handle it. I usually put him in his room when he is being destructive (which is where he was today with the coloring and broken screen) It's like he doesn't care about any consequences.

 

Honestly, I think the best consequence for a boy like yours is to tomato stake him right next to you at all times when he's misbehaving. Sending him to his room might help you calm down, but it's giving him a free pass to do whatever he wants in there. It probably isn't an effective punishment.

[Catwoman]

I've caught DS3 hiding crayons up his shirt sleeves before. I don't think he was thinking, "I think I'll save these to deface the house later!" More like, "That fell down my sleeve and felt neat. I think I'll try it again!" Then two hours later he remembers his hidden arsenal...

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Parrothead]

Consequences like sending him to his room don't work because... well, he has already shown you his room can be very interesting.

 

I agree with Cat. Tomato staking and lots of modeling proper behavior. If he does it incorrectly have him do it again.

[lovinmyboys]

I am really appreciating the advice. Do you think just modeling and growing up will work? Here is another example of what i am having trouble with. We have been working on asking for things nicely. So, he will say "get me water" and I say " I will, but you need to ask nicely so say will you please get me water." He won't say that and when he realizes I am not going to get it for him he throws a huge fit and I put him in his room because I don't know what else to do. Then, when I let him out of is room he still won't ask nicely and it repeats. I swear I do not try to pick fights with him, but it seems he wants to fight about everything.

[BarbecueMom]

I am really appreciating the advice. Do you think just modeling and growing up will work? Here is another example of what i am having trouble with. We have been working on asking for things nicely. So, he will say "get me water" and I say " I will, but you need to ask nicely so say will you please get me water." He won't say that and when he realizes I am not going to get it for him he throws a huge fit and I put him in his room because I don't know what else to do. Then, when I let him out of is room he still won't ask nicely and it repeats. I swear I do not try to pick fights with him, but it seems he wants to fight about everything.

 

That's just developmental. I think. Boundary testing, trying to get the upper hand. On my "I've had it!" days I tend to want to shuttle them off to their room for that kind of stuff, but ignoring really does work better. Eventually, they concede defeat... until the battle becomes, "I said please fifty times and why aren't you jumping to get me what I want right now????" DS4 grew out of that too. He's working on phrasing requests as a question instead of, "I want that." He's no longer throwing himself into a fit when corrected, thankfully.

 

I often say to my kids, "Argh! Stop acting three (or four)!" It's sort of a tongue-in-cheek way to remind myself that as much as this all sucks, it's normal. One day, DS4 told me he was going to give me a present and be 10 for the day. It was sweet. I figure some day he'll turn it around on me and tell me to stop acting 85.

[lovinmyboys]

Well, if he is going to grow out of it, I can handle it. I just don't know if I can handle it for the next 15 years. If I have hope that one day he just might do something I told him to do without a lot of drama, I will be ok.

[BarbecueMom]

Well, if he is going to grow out of it, I can handle it. I just don't know if I can handle it for the next 15 years. If I have hope that one day he just might do something I told him to do without a lot of drama, I will be ok.

 

Well, my oldest is just about five, and he's much better. I hear puberty is fun, though!

 

On the other hand, I have a 21yo brother still living at home pulling these same stunts. But that's a whole 'nuther can of worms...

[ktgrok]

How did he get unsupervised time to color all over himself head to toe and his furniture?

 

 

I have high need kids...in my case it's because I'm so exhausted from dealing with them that the few minutes they are quite I just breathe for a minute, and then when I go look for them I find the walls newly decorated with sharpie marker. It literally takes about 4 minutes or less. I won't blame the mom for that stuff.

 

Hugs.

 

Seriously, the best thing you can do is lower your expectations. Sure, you keep trying to teach him, but realize that this one is different. And still within the realm of normal. Lots of 3 year olds color on themselves, on the furniture, etc. Lots of kids have tantrums. They don't grow up to be bad people, I promise. When he is all grown up with kids of his own you will laugh about these stories. Try to keep that perspective whenever possible. Find the humor in it, that is what saves me. Realize how absurd it is and post it on facebook and know that someday they will be all grown up and won't color on themselves anymore.

 

Oh, and if it doesn't go against your beliefs have chocolate and booze in the house at all times. Sometimes a glass of wine can make all the difference. (Costco has a ready to drink margarita, with the booze already in it, in big bottles. That is probably why my children are all still alive).

[ktgrok]

I am really appreciating the advice. Do you think just modeling and growing up will work? Here is another example of what i am having trouble with. We have been working on asking for things nicely. So, he will say "get me water" and I say " I will, but you need to ask nicely so say will you please get me water." He won't say that and when he realizes I am not going to get it for him he throws a huge fit and I put him in his room because I don't know what else to do. Then, when I let him out of is room he still won't ask nicely and it repeats. I swear I do not try to pick fights with him, but it seems he wants to fight about everything.

 

 

Maybe that long of a sentence is hard for him? My 3 year old would have trouble with it...so she says "water please" and as long as she says it in a sweet voice I will get it. It's short and easy to say, but still polite.

 

Actually..your response to him is very wordy. I'm wondering...maybe he's not as verbally advanced as you expect? That's a lot of words to sift through for a 3 year old. Maybe try simplifying? So he says, "get me water!" and you say, "say: water please". Less verbal "static" to sort through. Sometimes little boys at that age have trouble with expressive and receptive language, and it can manifest as frustration and tantrums.

[Catwoman]

I am really appreciating the advice. Do you think just modeling and growing up will work? Here is another example of what i am having trouble with. We have been working on asking for things nicely. So, he will say "get me water" and I say " I will, but you need to ask nicely so say will you please get me water." He won't say that and when he realizes I am not going to get it for him he throws a huge fit and I put him in his room because I don't know what else to do. Then, when I let him out of is room he still won't ask nicely and it repeats. I swear I do not try to pick fights with him, but it seems he wants to fight about everything.

 

 

When he says, "Get me water," repeat it back to him as, "May I have some water, please?" Then get him the water, and if he doesn't thank you for it, say, "Thanks, Mom!" Eventually, he will pick up on it. And when you ask him to do something, be sure to phrase it politely as well. Keep setting a good example for him, without being Mean Mom about it.

 

What you're doing is jockeying for control with a 3 year old, and it looks like you're on the losing end right now. Try to remember that the minute you lose your temper, he wins. And he knows it. And it's kind of fun for him, because it means he's getting all of your attention.

 

Pick your battles. Don't let every little thing turn into World War III. Most things aren't worth a huge battle and the kid ending up in his room.

 

Seriously, when it's something like him wanting water and it turning into a nightmare, don't you kind of wish you hadn't picked something so minor as a hill to die on? There are important things -- like not cutting a huge hole in the window screen, because it's a safety issue, and those things deserve to be addressed, but I will say that I don't think sending a kid to his room is the answer. He needs calm explanations, not to be sent off to be alone.

 

But don't lose hope -- he'll grow out of it for sure! He's not at all unusual for a little boy, so try not to worry! :grouphug:

[ktgrok]

I should add that I rarely have problems with him at rest time. My biggest problem is that he will do stuff when I am right there too...and I am not sure how to handle it. I usually put him in his room when he is being destructive (which is where he was today with the coloring and broken screen) It's like he doesn't care about any consequences.

 

 

 

Ah...I was wondering about this, and was about to ask. I think you have your answer. He very well may NOT care about consequences, because he doesn't yet understand cause and effect. That requires maturity in a certain part of the brain. Some kids are very late to develop it. (it's related to executive function I think). My son was that way. DROVE ME BATTY. I could NOT understand how he kept doing things he KNEW would get him in trouble. But later he was diagnosed with some issues, including delayed executive function issues. He just didn't GET cause and effect. Therefore punishments didn't work. They couldn't. So we worked on prevention, and solid rules, and I'd say the two things that worked the best were constant supervision (think hovering) and role playing. The hovering so I could intervene BEFORE he got super frustrated/angry/violent, and the role playing so he could, when not stressed, work on how to handle various situations.

 

In good news, a few years ago that part of his brain must have caught up, because one day he woke up and all of a sudden GOT it. I remember him saying, "I want to do x, but I won't cause I know you will ground me if I do." My husband and I about fell over. So yeah, he no longer has to learn everything the hard way. It's great :)

[Tiramisu]

 

 

Ah...I was wondering about this, and was about to ask. I think you have your answer. He very well may NOT care about consequences, because he doesn't yet understand cause and effect. That requires maturity in a certain part of the brain. Some kids are very late to develop it. (it's related to executive function I think). My son was that way. DROVE ME BATTY. I could NOT understand how he kept doing things he KNEW would get him in trouble. But later he was diagnosed with some issues, including delayed executive function issues. He just didn't GET cause and effect. Therefore punishments didn't work. They couldn't. So we worked on prevention, and solid rules, and I'd say the two things that worked the best were constant supervision (think hovering) and role playing. The hovering so I could intervene BEFORE he got super frustrated/angry/violent, and the role playing so he could, when not stressed, work on how to handle various situations.

 

In good news, a few years ago that part of his brain must have caught up, because one day he woke up and all of a sudden GOT it. I remember him saying, "I want to do x, but I won't cause I know you will ground me if I do." My husband and I about fell over. So yeah, he no longer has to learn everything the hard way. It's great :)

 

 

I have one with impulse issues. It's very sad really because she has a highly developed conscience and feels absolutely terrible afterward.

[lynn]

Don't feel bad. There are times I hide in the bathroom and accept that I'm likely to walk into a disaster when I get out, but the alternative is supervised tantrums. My tantrum, not theirs.

 

I've caught DS3 hiding crayons up his shirt sleeves before. I don't think he was thinking, "I think I'll save these to deface the house later!" More like, "That fell down my sleeve and felt neat. I think I'll try it again!" Then two hours later he remembers his hidden arsenal...

 

My advice to new moms...."Never read Harold and the Purple Crayon to a 3 year old" :huh: In our case it was J and blue and marker but same concept.

[BarbecueMom]

 

 

My advice to new moms...."Never read Harold and the Purple Crayon to a 3 year old" :huh: In our case it was J and blue and marker but same concept.

 

LOL! I remember telling DH that one could wait until they were older. Our picture book screw up was "The Paperboy", about 2-3 months ago. Good thing I'm a light sleeper, because I woke up at 2:30am to the sound of commotion from the boys' room. Turns out they were dressed, putting shoes on, and getting ready to sneak out of the house to "deliver papers" to the neighborhood.

 

This is why we have alarms on the doors.

[Tap]

Children learn by making mistakes. Unfortunately he did a lot of learning in one day.

 

When kids stop taking naps, but are put down for an unsupervised quiet time, sometimes curiosity takes over and they start to investigate their room. A 3 yo may not understand that coloring on paper and walls is different. They have to be taught what is okay to color on and what is not ok. Unfortunately for parents, that usually happens after they have already done the deed. They have to learn that pushing on a screen will damage it.It probably felt really neat to his hands to break the screen. Unless you have gone over that multiple times with him, he probably didn't think much beyond the way it felt and looked when he was pausing on it. He wasn't trying to cause trouble, he just picked a few activities that led to damage. That amount of damage could have easily been done in just a few minutes for an active 3yo.

 

Some people have to make mistakes to learn the ramifications of those mistakes. They don't learn by being told to not do something, they have to experience it themselves.

 

He sounds like a kid who likes sensory input. Try picking up a book called the Out of Sync Child or Out of Sync Child Has Fun. They talk a lot about sensory input and how to use that in a more purposefully way. If you already understand the sensory needs, a few good books for this age group are Mud Pie to Magnets or others in the series. They have some good pre-school activities that incorporate the senses.

 

The iPad screen is disappointing but can be replaced by Apple or a repair shop. This is the problem with letting a child play with an expensive piece of technology. They may be able to handle it appropriately most of the time, but it only takes a few frustrating moments to do some expensive damage.

 

 

About that age dd6 found a sharpie in the house one day and colored all over my living room carpet, and a load of clothes that I had sitting by the door to go to the consignment store. Luckily I caught her in a few minutes and dumped rubbing alcohol on the carpet, but the clothes were ruined. Then at age 5, she colored on her bedroom floor with a maker. Luckily, it was a washable one (the only ones allowed in her reach now) and came up when I shampooed her carpet.

 

It is disappointing to have this much damage done in short period of time. It really does sound like if he is going through a curious/destructive phase, he may need more supervision right now. Maybe it will change soon, but honestly I think most of his actions are pretty typical of a normal 3yo.

[Mrs Mungo]

My suggestions?

 

1. Implement a naughty step/corner/chair.

 

2. Any writing implements, scissors, etc are put out of reach except when you can supervise. This is one of those logical consequence things.

 

3. Limit unsupervised time.

 

4. I agree with managing his diet better. My kids are WAY older than yours and I still feed them protein every two hours.

 

I do sympathize. My kids definitely went through some destructive phases.

[Leav97]

 

 

Our first wouldn't have dreamed of a fraction of the things #2 does. We've put up all markers, crayons, paint, colored pencils, pencils, pens, sharpies,... And they do things SO FAST. It's not realistic to expect 24x7 supervision. People have to sleep, use the bathroom, take care of other kids.

 

I understand.

 

It gets better.

 

Very, very slowly

 

And even when you take everything away they still figure out a way to make a mess.

 

 

[Katy]

If it's outright defiance... we use a single swat on the bottom for outright defiance or for dangerous behavior for a child too young to reason. But I don't get the impression this is outright defiance - more lack of baby proofing and unsupervised time.

 

I'm most concerned about the window screen - if he could reach it he can likely fall out of it. Please figure out a way to block that window immediately for safety reasons.

 

When he does something he shouldn't right in front of you, get down at his eye level and say "We don't do _________" (whatever it is he's doing wrong). Then remove the item in question and don't allow him access to it again. Ignore screaming and tantrums completely (I know this is hard), and redirect with distractions where possible.

 

I'm sorry he wrecked your iPad. Why did you trust him with it? We don't let toddlers touch electronics unless they are sitting in our laps at the time. Perhaps you need some high shelves to put things away out of his reach?

 

For quiet time, have it on a play matt right in front of you - the kind used in kindergarten works great. If that won't work because you sleep too or you're all over the house cleaning or whatever, they do make play yards for toddlers. Personally I'd rather have the kid with me when cleaning so he knows that's what adults do and have a toddler proof house than coral him in a room or play yard. Coloring on the walls seems like a normal part of having little kids to me - I don't like it but they all do it. If your walls are scrubbable eggshell paint, you can give him chalk to draw on the walls with and it should wipe tight off. If you don't like that idea, an area painted with black or green chalkboard paint could take care of that too.

 

It sounds to me like he's very smart and is just exploring his environment. More stimulation and supervision might help, relaxing and taking photos and giggling over these crazy moments might help you relax and realize he won't be this small for long, time at a playground to run off some energy might help too.

[Upward Journey]

 

 

 

This picture reminds me of my second around 2 or 3. She found a blue marker that older brother had left out, stripped naked and proceeded to color her entire body blue.

 

Another time she was painting at the table and asked if she could paint a necklace. Sure. She painted a necklace alright, on herself.

 

Same child, slightly older as in old enough to know better, cut holes into my brand new, high count sheets. She only confessed when she heard me blaming a younger sibling. Asked why, she answered that it felt cool to cut through the cloth.

 

Good times :lol:

[Dahliarw]

I haven't read all the replies. Seeing that he's the youngest of 4, maybe it's just a cry for attention. I would try lots and lots of positive attention. Praise him for what he does right. Make time to do special things with him. When he's naughty repremand him, but be brief, short, and don't dwell on it. If you get really upset and spend lots of time with him when he's naughty, then he may be getting what he wants, attention, even if it's negative.

[Aspasia]

No advice, but I wanted to offer camaraderie. Yours sounds exactly like my little guy, who is turning three next month. He's always rude when he asks for things, he pitches massive tantrums over the smallest disappointments, and he's just generally unhappy all the time. I have been trying to figure him out from all angles (dietary, sleep, physical activity, attention, etc), and I swear to you, nothing makes a difference. He's just a punk. This HAS to be a phase, because I can't live like this for much longer.

 

Also, maybe I'm irresponsible, but my ds has time every day that is unsupervised. I don't follow him around the house all day. I have two other kids and a million other responsibilities to take care of. I make sure he's safe, but I can't say that I ALWAYS know exactly what he's doing. I think it's unrealistic to be "supervising" your child at all times. I'm close by, and I can always hear him playing (which is generally a good indicator of what he is up to), but most of us don't have the luxury of napping with one kid every day.

 

And it doesn't take long for a 3 yo to color all over his bed and his body. Same thing with scratching a hole in a screen, given the right tool.

[kiwik]

Mine is 4 next week and he is a complete monster at times. People say put him in his room but he smashes it up which is a bit unfair when he shares it with his older brother. Physical correction is illegal here and though I have resorted to the the odd smack I feel breaking the law is not particularly good example.

[AK_Mom4]

Been there, done that!

 

DD11 wasn't even a hard kid. She was an easy-peasy baby. But when we hit toddler years, we started calling her Baby Tornado. You would think with three adult and three older sibs in the house that she would be pretty well supervised - and she was! But she was SOOOOO quiet, you would turn around and the refrigerator door would be colored in sharpie. She cut holes in every piece of cloth she could get hold of - I kept the scissors locked in a filing cabinet. She could unpack a backpack in two seconds flst and hide the contents.

 

Four was much better as I recall. Though she still does stuff that leaves me shaking my head. Definitely has to learn the hard way!

[Tiramisu]

Mine could pick locks with kitchen utensils at 2. We had to lock all doors to rooms where safety was an issue, and then we realized we had to hide all the utensils, too. She was a fast mover. We tried a safety harness but eventually realized it was better not to go too many places. I am SO glad those days are over! But she's still a rascal and is better off at ps.

[ktgrok]

oh, meant to say that 3 was the WORST year with my destructive/angry/violent kid. 4 was a BREEZE in comparison. And five was lovely.

[UncleEJ]

I hope all of these replies have helped OP to feel better, I know it has me!! My own DS that is 3 and a half can be a nightmare! He was a great baby, so much easier that ODS. But something happened when he turned about 2. He really struggles with impulse control. He sticks his hands in EVERYTHING. He can't walk through the kitchen without dunking his hand in a cowl on the counter. I'm halfway tempted to put bowls of fire ants around ;-). He is also the one that gets into everything. Dumped a whole bottle of glue on the carpet, smears yogurt all over the table with a toy bulldozer, covered my entire iPhone in lip gloss. I swear everytime I turn around, I'm saying "Titus! What in the world are you doing!?" He also seems to have some issue with control. He has a really hard time when certain things are not just so. I having a hard time figuring out how to balance his need to have things his way, with not completely spoiling him. On the other hand he is the sweetest, snuggliest little guy ever! I often call him my little contradiction :-).

 

Anyway, it has been very helpful to hear that he will hopefully calm down a bit when he gets closer to four. There is hope!

[Joanne]

Actually, the destruction and history sound like an underlying issue. I'd start with sensory issues and also consider developmental delays. Possibly spectrum.

[Marianne in TX]

I am really appreciating the advice. Do you think just modeling and growing up will work? Here is another example of what i am having trouble with. We have been working on asking for things nicely. So, he will say "get me water" and I say " I will, but you need to ask nicely so say will you please get me water." He won't say that and when he realizes I am not going to get it for him he throws a huge fit and I put him in his room because I don't know what else to do. Then, when I let him out of is room he still won't ask nicely and it repeats. I swear I do not try to pick fights with him, but it seems he wants to fight about everything.

 

 

When he says "get me water," I would just look at him and say "water, please?"...just like I'd want him to say it. And then go ahead and give it to him. He'll catch on. :001_smile:

[Tiramisu]

Actually, the destruction and history sound like an underlying issue. I'd start with sensory issues and also consider developmental delays. Possibly spectrum.

 

 

A agree that an evaluation for sensory issues could be good start. When you're dealing with sensory issues without knowing it, it's easy to think you must be doing everything wrong. Or for the kid to think they're simply bad. That's really not good for anyone, or your relationship. Sensory kids don't respond to stimuli in the normal way, but there are ways to help them and make your life easier in the process.

[lovinmyboys]

Thanks again, everyone, for the replies. My DH got back in town and DS3 has been much better. I think part of the reason I was so stressed was because I was parenting solo. However, I have to do that quite a bit, so I need to get used to it.

 

I think he may have a little bit of sensory issues, but I don't think they are big. I will keep an eye on it and maybe get him evaluated. I really think he is just a very obstinate kid and his reasoning capabilities are not there yet.

 

My main problem is that when I really need him to do something, I don't feel like i can make him to do. My oldest 2 are definitely not models of obedience, but I never felt like I couldn't get them to do something. With him, unless I can make it be his idea, it turns into a power struggle...which I hate. Yesterday I told him to put his bike away and he just flat wouldn't do it. That one incident is not a big deal, but when it is every time I tell him to do something, it gets very draining. Today I told him not to spit in the house. He just kept on spitting. How do you make a kid stop spitting?

 

Besides not obeying, he also throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. I try to give him what he wants as much as possible, but sometimes I can't. That is when I feel like I can't take him out because when he has a huge tantrum there isn't much I can do about it. Grocery shopping is a nightmare because he wants all kinds of stuff that I don't get and each instance of being told no brings a fresh round of tears.

 

The reason I posted about him breaking things is because I am not sure what to do when he does it. I really don't do anything except try to supervise him more closely. I was wondering if I should have a consequence, or if just saying don't do that any more is enough.

 

I really appreciated the perspective that he is 3 and that is young (he just turned 3 in Feb). My oldest is only 6 and I have a 1 yr old, so sometimes in my life 3 seems older than it probably is. I expect my ds1 to color on everything..not my ds3. And, I need to change that expectation.

 

Overall, he can be a good and sweet kid. He is so good at church that they moved him up to the class above his age and he is doing great in there. The teachers thought he was too advanced ( at things like paying attention) for the toddler class he was in.

 

Everyone loves him. It is really just for me that he gets so out of control. And it isn't always like that. But, when he decides to throw a fit or just blatantly disobey, I really don't know what to do with him. Honestly, he isn't as bad as it looks when I write about him. Most of the time he does fine. It's just those times that he isn't fine that give me trouble.

[Tiramisu]

Sometimes with sensory issues and the like, they can hold it together for only so long. They can be the model of behavior in many outside situations but then they lose it later when they're with you, in their safe place.

 

The obstinancy is a tricky thing. I have another one who was very tough as a young child. I feel like I spent most of her childhood reading books on discipline and trying to be consistent, blah, blah, blah. It was so hard. She was very well behaved outside, a high achiever, in part, I think now, because of the anxiety that often goes along with the sensory stuff. It wasn't until she was a teen that we started to figure out what was probably behind her early behavior. She's actually been a rather amazing teen but the young years were tough. She still gets overloaded now but she has the words to express it and has developed healthy coping mechanisms.

 

I don't know how much it would have helped if I had known earlier because you can't just stop real life. But we could have made what accommodations we could, and I would have tried to have been a little easier on her. I think she carries a weight from us having been on her case all the time, but at the time, I didn't exactly feel like I had a choice.

[Dahliarw]

When you need him to do something can you make it a choice that's not a choice? So for the bike, "Do you want to put your bike away first and then run to that tree and back, or do you want to run to the tree and back and then put away your bike?" For things like teeth brushing, "Do you want to floss and then brush, or brush and then floss?" It puts him in control, but gets what you want done. Unless they come back with "neither". At that point, I say, "ok, I'm going to help you put the bike away" then grab his hand, walk to the bike, and hand over hand "help" him put it away. The attitude does not get him out of obedience, even if it is coerced. Usually kids who are independent really hate being "helped" and they'll quickly decide they'd rather do it themselves.

 

As for spitting, every time, "we only spit in the toilet or the sink" and then walk him to the bathroom and point out where and let him know it's ok to spit there. Every time. It's not fun for the child and takes them away, for a bit, from what they really want to do. It also gives them a place that is "ok" for that behavior. It also takes a lot of not getting mad and yelling at that behavior (which is usually the reaction they are going for).

 

For tantrums, I'm an ignorer for the most part. I tell the child "I can hear that you're upset you can't have xxxx, but a tantrum is not going to change that" and then ignore. Eventually they learn tantrums do not get them what they want. In the store, does not giving a firm "no" work? Often I'll tell my kids "I will think about it" even though I know my answer. But the fact that it's not a "no" makes it easier. And on occassion I'll go back for the item so that they know it's not a flat out no (I also do this with things I was going to get anyways, tell them I'll think about it, and then use that item as something that I get after I thought about it). Also lay out clear expectations before going in - maybe even make him a picture grocery list and have him help you find things (beling clear you're only purchasing what is on the list). Maybe having him help look will distract him from searching for "wants" since he'll have a purpose?

 

I hope that helps or gives you some ideas. I've been there with the 3yo behavior, I have an almost 4yo right now and I think we're mostly over it, but she still can be very demanding (being the only girl and youngest of 3 does not help either, her dad and brothers often indulge her!)

[Katy]

I guess when I was little I got in a tantrum throwing faze, a huge embarrassment to my mother. My dad was away with the Navy at the time, but when he came back the first time I threw a tantrum at the store he covered his mouth, pointed at me and laughed as loudly as he could. Apparently I was mortified and never did that again. I don't remember it happening, but I do remember the story and I have yet to meet a kid that it didn't work on. I don't usually manipulate with shame and embarrassment, but public tantrums are an exception. At home I ignore them.

[Tiramisu]

A good book to look at might be The Explosive Child. I'm not a big fan of the title, but the contents are good. It's all about kids with low frustration tolerance. As the title expresses, some kids lose it very obviously, but others implode instead, or in addition to the explosion. It's good to be aware of that. The key with these kids is not to put them up against a wall but give them options. You might find some techniques in the book that work.

[Joanne]

It's been since birth according to your OP. Please don't minimize the effects that sensory issues can have; get him evaluated sooner rather than later.

 

Destruction is OFTEN related to untreated sensory issues.

[lovinmyboys]

He has been difficult since birth. He cried/screamed and didn't sleep the first 3 months of his life. He started crawling at 5 months and he has been into everything since. He was a climber and lock picker. He has always had a low frustration tolerance and been fiercely independent. He has no patience. He hates to lose (my others didnt know what lose meant at his age). He wants what he wants and redirection and distraction doesnt work. That is more what I mean when I say difficult. He is rarely destructive, but he can be.

 

On the good side, he has a great imagination, is very athletic, and has a long attention span. He listens to long books, watches live plays, and plays family games with us. He can swim, ride a two wheel bike, and pump his own swing. I think he is pretty verbal for his age.

 

I will have him evaluated for sensory issues. I don't know what to look for with those. He doesn't like being in wet clothes (and potty trained himself right before his 2nd birthday). Other than that, I don't see him as a sensory kid.

[Joanne]

He has been difficult since birth. He cried/screamed and didn't sleep the first 3 months of his life. He started crawling at 5 months and he has been into everything since. He was a climber and lock picker. He has always had a low frustration tolerance and been fiercely independent. He has no patience. He hates to lose (my others didnt know what lose meant at his age). He wants what he wants and redirection and distraction doesnt work. That is more what I mean when I say difficult. He is rarely destructive, but he can be.

 

On the good side, he has a great imagination, is very athletic, and has a long attention span. He listens to long books, watches live plays, and plays family games with us. He can swim, ride a two wheel bike, and pump his own swing. I think he is pretty verbal for his age.

 

I will have him evaluated for sensory issues. I don't know what to look for with those. He doesn't like being in wet clothes (and potty trained himself right before his 2nd birthday). Other than that, I don't see him as a sensory kid.

 

Your OP, and the entire first paragraph of this quoted post are common "sensory kid" profiles.

[walkermamaof4]

Have you read any of the Diane Craft stuff about diet and behaviors? I know ultimately kids make choices and should be held accountable, but have learned so much in the past year about how diet affects our temptations. I can pinpoint now if someone gives ds red dye, dairy, etc. It is unreal how his behavior changes. Here is a faq about this: http://www.diannecraft.org/biology-of-behavior-faq-update-part-1/ and you can find more online. It has been a really hard year for us, but helpful to learn what ds's triggers are. Give him just 15 minutes of wii time while I am gone, and I promise you I'll know without being told. It just messes up his brain and he goes bonkers. I have other kids who can handle an hour of wii without obvious struggles. We've removed all processed foods and dyes from his diet and gluten and dairy. Also, read the study about Nurture and Clarity and the one about EyeQ, both were enlightening. We do the triple dose of good quality fish oil. I first read to do that in the eyeQ study, but recently saw it on Diane Craft's site too: http://www.diannecraft.org/fish-oil-as-healing-brain-food/

A friend told me 90% of her son's behavior issues went away when she pulled him off of dairy. I think there is a lot more to behavior and what we eat than we realize.

 

HTH!

[TravelingChris]

Are the any of the other children ADHD? My child with severe adhd had to be put on medication at 3.75. We didn't just see a pediatrician, she was diagnosed by a development specialist and yes, the diagnosis has held for about 16 years now.