We are not loving how WWS teaches Literary Analysis

[Chrysalis Academy]

I was really looking forward to getting to the literary analysis section of WWS, because dd and I enjoy discussing literature using the questions in WTM and the method SWB described in her Literary Analysis lectures. I've had dd write about a few books previously, and was eager for her to really learn how it's done, step by step, from WWS.

 

But . . . I really dislike the way WWS teaches literary analysis. The student is asked to analyze the piece (via discussion and notetaking with the instructor) on one day, and then on the second day to do two (or more) separate things: to write a summary, and then to write an analysis. Then, you are somehow supposed to squish them together, removing anything redundant and adding transitions as needed. But, but, but . . . this feels so awkward and backwards! You are doing a task without understanding the goal, or the endpoint. You end up with a lot of repetition that needs to come out, and a lot of analysis that needs to be added in the second part in order to make this work. This is really an unintuitive and difficult thing for me to get my head around, and it's really frustrating for dd.

 

Is this just a style thing? Another example of the parts-to-whole vs. whole-to-parts thing that Ruth brought up in her comparison of WWS & LToW? DD is definitely more of a big picture thinker, who likes to know the goal before she starts. I think she would do much better with a more straightforward explanation of the assignment, more "prelection" about what the goals are and what the end result is supposed to be. And less need to cross out stuff she has already written! This makes her nuts. ;)

 

I will be thinking about how to adapt WWS in future lessons, but I'm also wondering about others' experience: First, has anyone else felt this way? Do you love how WWS teaches LA? Hate it? Feel meh but find it serviceable?

 

I'm also wondering if you have found anything else you love for teaching kids to write about literature? I'm thinking at this point that maybe *I* have learned enough from WWS, and from WTM and SWB's lectures that I can teach this on my own, but I am curious about others' experiences with teaching Lit Analysis to Logic Stage students.

[redsquirrel]

It has gone very well for us. My son actually says "oh goodie' when the lit sections come up, lol. I don't really have any other suggestions. I am sure there are others with a differing opinion.

 

FWIW, he generally goes over the whole week's assignments before starting a new assignment. So he has a pretty good idea of where it is going when he starts. I didn't tell him to do that, he just wanted to know.

[amsunshine]

I have to say that after starting the literary analysis portion of WWS, I realized that I personally prefer more of a whole to parts approach than the parts to whole approach that WWS takes.

[Sleep-Deprived]

I'm in the "love her approach to LA" camp.

 

I like the way things are broken down in smaller parts. To me it is the same system we experienced in WWE - where you only practice one new skill at a time. The first happens in the conversation with the instructor, so they learn to identify what they are looking for in the narrative. On a separate day, they take those answers and put them in a more polished written form. Finally they assemble all those pieces and make sure everything fits together well. It's not intuitive yet, but it is teaching the mechanics of analyzing the narrative and then putting that into a well supported paper.

 

I was a lit major in college. If you can get the mechanics of writing the paper to become second nature (like putting something in muscle memory), then the actual analysis of the literature becomes more like a treasure hunt than a task. That's my take on it ...and I have to say for us, SWB has yet to disappoint when it comes to following any of her curricula. It could just be a great fit for us.

[thebacabunch]

I have been loving wws because it breaks everything down. My dd was all over the place in her writing. She was adding things that were not important and going off on weird tangents. She is now becoming so concise in her writing. I agree with the muscle memory thing.

[Penguin]

I might be the wrong person to ask, given that I make HUGE modifications to WWS. But I think that your instincts are spot on - maybe you are now in a position to teach the literary analysis with less step-by-step instruction. WWS can be a great framework for teaching writing on your own...at least that is what I keep telling myself :glare:

 

 

We just did the first assignment this week (Rikki-tikki-tavi). I liked the discussion (Think) day that came after the reading day. We did that pretty much as scripted. But I thought that the writing instructions seemed convoluted. If I would have handed them to DS as-is, we would have had a hot mess on our hands!

 

I told him to write a summary. His summaries are always richer and longer than what WWS asks for, but they are GOOD so I have left that alone. After he finished the summary, I guided him to places within the summary where he could insert some of the "why" that SWB was looking for. Done.

 

This went reasonably well, and I avoided trying to get him to smash two pieces of writing together. But I wish that I had had some short, basic literary essays to show him as models. That would have been really helpful.

[Chrysalis Academy]

No, I'm talking about WWS 1. There is a 4-week section on literary analysis.

 

I do adore the structure (read-think-write) and the discussion prompts are fantastic. I've been using the WTM discussion prompts for a year now, and I do love that way of thinking and talking about literature before writing. It's just the very piecemeal way of actually doing the writing pieces, and then smooshing them together, that we're struggling with.

 

These comments are helpful, so please keep weighing in with your experience!!

[Chrysalis Academy]

I might be the wrong person to ask, given that I make HUGE modifications to WWS. But I think that your instincts are spot on - maybe you are now in a position to teach the literary analysis with less step-by-step instruction. WWS can be a great framework for teaching writing on your own...at least that is what I keep telling myself :glare:

 

 

We just did the first assignment this week (Rikki-tikki-tavi). I liked the discussion (Think) day that came after the reading day. We did that pretty much as scripted. But I thought that the writing instructions seemed convoluted. If I would have handed them to DS as-is, we would have had a hot mess on our hands!

 

I told him to write a summary. His summaries are always richer and longer than what WWS asks for, but they are GOOD so I have left that alone. After he finished the summary, I guided him to places within the summary where he could insert some of the "why" that SWB was looking for. Done.

 

This went reasonably well, and I avoided trying to get him to smash two pieces of writing together. But I wish that I had had some short, basic literary essays to show him as models. That would have been really helpful.

 

 

 

Penguin, this sounds great, and it sounds like what ended up happening kind of spontaneously for us on the Anne of Green Gables assignment. She had written full sentences about the characters and conflict on the Think day, and wrote a nice summary on the Write day, so I helped her see how to incorporate her analysis following the summary rather than having her re-write and smoosh. So we really combined steps 2 and 3 it was much more straightforward. I'm planning to do this more consciously with the next LA assignment.

 

I modify every other curriculum I use, why would I think WWS would be any different? ;)

 

I would love to hear other ways you are modifying WWS to work for you guys . . . :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I agree that those sections were :001_huh: .

 

Yet another reason I'm glad we pull from many sources for everything.

 

:lurk5:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I agree that those sections were :001_huh: .

 

Yet another reason I'm glad we pull from many sources for everything.

 

:lurk5:

 

 

 

Aw, c'mon, you can't leave me hanging! What are you pulling from for lit analysis? Enquiring minds want to know!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Aw, c'mon, you can't leave me hanging! What are you pulling from for lit analysis? Enquiring minds want to know!

 

 

I was afraid you would ask that! I don't have one :scared: --that's why I'm following the thread. ;)

 

To be completely honest, though, lit analysis isn't a priority for us right now. sshhhh.....

[TheApprentice]

I'm a whole to parts person, but apparently, ds is a parts to whole person because he is actually doing very well in this section. We just finished Week 26, and he's feeling very confident in his new skill.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I was afraid you would ask that! I don't have one :scared: --that's why I'm following the thread. ;)

 

To be completely honest, though, lit analysis isn't a priority for us right now. sshhhh.....

 

 

Note to self: apparently the answer to many of your questions is, "You really don't need to be worrying about this right now." :huh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Lucy]

So glad i saw this thread. My daughter came downstairs today and said, "wws told me to eat a cookie and read a story." Guess I better sit up and watch closely how she responds to this lesson on lit!

[Lucy]

sorry - dp

[swimmermom3]

I might be the wrong person to ask, given that I make HUGE modifications to WWS. But I think that your instincts are spot on - maybe you are now in a position to teach the literary analysis with less step-by-step instruction. WWS can be a great framework for teaching writing on your own...at least that is what I keep telling myself :glare:

 

 

We just did the first assignment this week (Rikki-tikki-tavi). I liked the discussion (Think) day that came after the reading day. We did that pretty much as scripted. But I thought that the writing instructions seemed convoluted. If I would have handed them to DS as-is, we would have had a hot mess on our hands!

 

I told him to write a summary. His summaries are always richer and longer than what WWS asks for, but they are GOOD so I have left that alone. After he finished the summary, I guided him to places within the summary where he could insert some of the "why" that SWB was looking for. Done.

 

This went reasonably well, and I avoided trying to get him to smash two pieces of writing together. But I wish that I had had some short, basic literary essays to show him as models. That would have been really helpful.

 

 

I would suggest that since your son is 12, that you look for classic literary essays, not peer-written ones, for examples. Spend some time with it yourself first. Professional writers writing about the works of other professional writers is about as good as it gets and they show your student what the ultimate goal is. Some of them are challenging to read, but because they are well, "professional" the student can see the path better.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I would suggest that since your son is 12, that you look for classic literary essays, not peer-written ones, for examples. Spend some time with it yourself first. Professional writers writing about the works of other professional writers is about as good as it gets and they show your student what the ultimate goal is. Some of them are challenging to read, but because they are well, "professional" the student can see the path better.

 

 

 

 

Lisa, I think that is great advice, and I got a bunch of books from the library yesterday, on a lot of different topics (I'm reading Zissner's Writing to Learn and it gave me some good ideas) but do you have any specific suggestions of authors, books, anthologies, or anything that you've used to find models of good essays? Maybe something a little more recent than Montaigne or Emerson? Not sure that dd10 is ready for that yet! ;)

[happyhomemaker]

Norton Critical Editions are great for this. They have them for many classic works. So for example, you could get one for Great Expectations and the volume contains the original work plus 4-5 literary essays about the work. Other literary essay recommendations are Tolkien's essays (especially on Beowulf) and Oscar Wilde's.

[Penguin]

Norton Critical Editions are great for this. They have them for many classic works. So for example, you could get one for Great Expectations and the volume contains the original work plus 4-5 literary essays about the work. Other literary essay recommendations are Tolkien's essays (especially on Beowulf) and Oscar Wilde's.

 

 

I probably own at least a dozen Norton Crtitical Editions, and many other essay collections. Too bad they are in storage on another continent. :crying: I might have one or two here...off to look.

[swimmermom3]

Norton Critical Editions are a good place to start. Sometimes you can find a contemporary essayist like Dana Gioia that you might find helpful. We used his review of Longfellows' "On Paul Revere's Ride" when we read it for Teaching the Classics. What I find handy about this method is that the student deepens their understanding of literary analysis when reading the essay, but they can also deconstruct the essay itself and look at individual paragraphs and the entire essay. It's been a while since I have looked at this one, but if I remember right, Gioia will give you a topic sentence for a paragraph that is also an arguable point and then he provides support within the paragraph body. He has some good examples of solid writing.

 

For fun, there is George Orwell's "Politics and the English Language.

 

Or if you read Poe's poem, "The Raven," you can read how he made his word choices in The Philosophy of Composition. This is more difficult to take apart when looking at the actual structure of the essay; we used it to have a look inside the writer's mind when crafting a work.

 

You don't have to stick to authors writing about other authors. Swift's "A Modest Proposal" is a marvelous work to examine.

 

Those are the ones that come quickly to mind. I know we did one with H.G. Wells and I think there were a few others. I'll check in the morning and add them.

[Penguin]

Norton Critical Editions are a good place to start. Sometimes you can find a contemporary essayist like Dana Gioia that you might find helpful. We used his review of Longfellows' "On Paul Revere's Ride" when we read it for Teaching the Classics.

 

 

I know this isn't my thread, but I wanted to say thanks for the ideas. I do think that it is very important to read contemporary writing if you want your student to model contemporary writing.

 

Did you have your student watch Teaching the Classics? Does it seem like you are watching a Teacher Training Video or a Literary Analysis video? I see that some of the same stories also appear in WWS. Perhaps they would complement each other (?).

 

One of my deficits is that I prefer having someone else create the actual assignments - that is one of the reasons I am sticking with WWS. Even if I have to change up the presentation.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Norton Critical Editions are a good place to start. Sometimes you can find a contemporary essayist like Dana Gioia that you might find helpful. We used his review of Longfellows' "On Paul Revere's Ride" when we read it for Teaching the Classics. What I find handy about this method is that the student deepens their understanding of literary analysis when reading the essay, but they can also deconstruct the essay itself and look at individual paragraphs and the entire essay. It's been a while since I have looked at this one, but if I remember right, Gioia will give you a topic sentence for a paragraph that is also an arguable point and then he provides support within the paragraph body. He has some good examples of solid writing.

 

For fun, there is George Orwell's "Politics and the English Language.

 

Or if you read Poe's poem, "The Raven," you can read how he made his word choices in The Philosophy of Composition. This is more difficult to take apart when looking at the actual structure of the essay; we used it to have a look inside the writer's mind when crafting a work.

 

You don't have to stick to authors writing about other authors. Swift's "A Modest Proposal" is a marvelous work to examine.

 

Those are the ones that come quickly to mind. I know we did one with H.G. Wells and I think there were a few others. I'll check in the morning and add them.

 

Lisa, thank you so much! I love these suggestions. It also reminded me how much I enjoy reading Michael Dirda, I will grab some of his essays too.

 

A selection from Poe's The Philosophy of composition was in MCT's Essay Voyage, we just read it last week and really, really enjoyed it, and it so enriched our appreciation of the poem!

[Cosmos]

Norton Critical Editions are a good place to start. Sometimes you can find a contemporary essayist like Dana Gioia that you might find helpful. We used his review of Longfellows' "On Paul Revere's Ride" when we read it for Teaching the Classics. What I find handy about this method is that the student deepens their understanding of literary analysis when reading the essay, but they can also deconstruct the essay itself and look at individual paragraphs and the entire essay. It's been a while since I have looked at this one, but if I remember right, Gioia will give you a topic sentence for a paragraph that is also an arguable point and then he provides support within the paragraph body. He has some good examples of solid writing.

 

I love what you say here, especially the bolded part. I have come to realize how important it is to study pieces of writing just to see how they are put together. Doing WWS has opened my eyes to this with the way the student is instructed to examine a passage and identify the "scientific background paragraph", etc. And we can continue to do this with all genres of writing.

 

I remember coming to high school and being expected suddenly to write "literary analysis" papers without any instruction on what one was or should look like. I muddled through and actually got high praise for my papers, but I never really understood what I was supposed to be doing. How I wish my teachers had just showed us at least ONE well-written essay and helped us to break down the structure. We did look at published essays in upper grades but only as content sources, not with an eye to studying the essays themselves.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Norton Critical Editions are a good place to start. Sometimes you can find a contemporary essayist like Dana Gioia that you might find helpful. We used his review of Longfellows' "On Paul Revere's Ride" when we read it for Teaching the Classics. What I find handy about this method is that the student deepens their understanding of literary analysis when reading the essay, but they can also deconstruct the essay itself and look at individual paragraphs and the entire essay. It's been a while since I have looked at this one, but if I remember right, Gioia will give you a topic sentence for a paragraph that is also an arguable point and then he provides support within the paragraph body. He has some good examples of solid writing.

 

For fun, there is George Orwell's "Politics and the English Language.

 

Or if you read Poe's poem, "The Raven," you can read how he made his word choices in The Philosophy of Composition. This is more difficult to take apart when looking at the actual structure of the essay; we used it to have a look inside the writer's mind when crafting a work.

 

You don't have to stick to authors writing about other authors. Swift's "A Modest Proposal" is a marvelous work to examine.

 

Those are the ones that come quickly to mind. I know we did one with H.G. Wells and I think there were a few others. I'll check in the morning and add them.

 

 

Lisa, I had to come back and say thank you for these recommendations. I just got Dana Gioia's The Art of the Short Story from the library, and I am :001_wub: :001_wub: :001_wub: !! Thanks again!

[lewelma]

Just wanted to let you know that WWS2's literary analysis is miles better than WWS1. Last year, we just skipped WWS1's instruction and wrote our own thing. But this year, my ds has enjoyed the level 2 work. I wish I could give you more details, but we have taken a break from beta testing to focus on MATH, and now I just don't remember what we did before Christmas.

 

Just put the Art of the Short Story in my cart. Wow! *I* definitely want to read it.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Chrysalis Academy]

Just wanted to let you know that WWS2's literary analysis is miles better than WWS1. Last year, we just skipped WWS1's instruction and wrote our own thing. But this year, my ds has enjoyed the level 2 work. I wish I could give you more details, but we have taken a break from beta testing to focus on MATH, and now I just don't remember what we did before Christmas.

 

Just put the Art of the Short Story in my cart. Wow! *I* definitely want to read it.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Thanks for the word. We do the 4th week tomorrow, and I'm definitely planning to teach it my own way! Good to hear it's better in WWS 2.

 

I also bought myself the Art of the Short Story. I can already tell it's a keeper!

[A home for their hearts]

Thanks for the word. We do the 4th week tomorrow, and I'm definitely planning to teach it my own way! Good to hear it's better in WWS 2.

 

I also bought myself the Art of the Short Story. I can already tell it's a keeper!

 

Love this thread! I've realized how bad my education on literary analysis, and writing was. This is a subject I'm really afraid to teach. I got my dd13 WWS 1 and we stopped after the first lesson! I was having trouble. We've back up to WWE 2. My plan is to go through all of WWE and then start WWS, if we can manage to get through the drugery of WWE! I'm really starting to hate it.

 

You mentioned you got some books from the library on writing, you've mention a couple of them, are there any other ones that you really like?

[Stellalarella]

I just thought it was interesting that we, too, were on Ricki-Ticki in WWS this week. :)

 

My kids really have a hard time sorting out her instructions. My goal with WWS is two-fold: learn how to write; learn how to follow instructions that are not always super clear on the first read-through.

 

I actually have been excited about the parts to whole instruction.