AmyontheFarm Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 We as a family practice Sabbath on Sundays. Now our eldest is having to work on Sunday's some weeks. My husband has requested that she takes her Sabbath as close to ours as possible. She has to pick Saturday because she works Mon - Wed. Sabbath in our home, means studying scripture, sitting in a sermon or two, no household chores like laundry, dusting, etc. The only exceptions is preparing meals and cleaning up afterwards. How do other families balance one person taking their Sabbath when others aren't. Toss in the young adult in question doesn't pull her fair load during the week and the younger 3 are going to look at me cross eyed when I inform them after lunch that we have to now clean the house to prepare for Sabbath and no, the eldest doesn't have to help. I really wish my life was different today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 In our house once someone has a job they don't have as many household responsibilities. If the eldest isn't there why should she have to clean up meals she doesn't take? Do you want your eldest to be responsible for herself as an adult or do you want to hold her at home? You can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 two of us have had to work on sunday. we don't change our "sabbath". it's still sunday. we work to accomodate around that. 2dd (not currently at home. might be back before she graduates) is going into a field where 24/7 is standard (and necessary). she does request a no-sunday schedule, but sometimes she has to work that. it has not stopped her from studying scriptures, giving service to others, etc. when she's not actually at work. (and she is "serving" people in her job.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 We don't make her clean up after meals she didn't partake in. When I mean she doesn't do chores, I mean, she leave her laundry for us to wash because it's now her Sabbath and she needs her clothes for Monday. She won't dust or clean her room or the basement living room area which the teens use. She'll leave her clothes in the bathroom and won't even change the toilet paper. All because SHE has to work and apparently what I and the rest of us do all day in the barns and in the house is just chopped liver. She keeps says she'd have it better if she lived on her own and there are weeks I'm getting ready to give her, her very wish! I'd like to see what happens when meals and lunches don't magically appear and laundry lays stinking on the floor day after day. The crazy part is 2 years ago, I'd have told you that I would trust this child to maintain the house, cook and clean up after meals and watch children 5 hours and night while doing school work. It's like an alien has invaded her brain. The best was sitting there quietly listening to her harp on about how she only made $700 for a two week cycle. She is making 3/4 of what my husband and I make a month. Why are we paying for her car insurance?????? Sorry, had to rant. Going to flip over MY laundry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 so - you accomodate her refusal to do anything? I'd stop doing her wash. pronto. she's old enough to do her own laundry. (and figure out when during the week she can.) I'd let her run out of TP. I would have to think about dumping the clothes she left in the bathroom back into her room - or taking them hostage and she would have to earn them back. she may want to live on her own - but does she have ANY clue how much that would cost her? good question. why *are* you paying for her car insurance? my kids pay for their own from the time they were teens. (the younger ones are on our policy, but only becasue it's cheaper - but they pay for it themselves.) eta: we may own 2dd's car, but SHE pays to maintain it, fill it with gas, oil changes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 It sounds like you have two issues going on, Sabbath and dd's responsibilities. I certainly would not clean up after her or make her lunches unless it was an everyone meal. If her clothes are in the bathroom toss them in her room. It sounds like it's time for a new plan. :grouphug: If she can't help clean the teen room she doesn't need to use it. Is there something else going on. Is she anxious about *growing up*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I don't understand why she can't do her own laundry on another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I think the Sabbath issue is the least of the issues you have going on here. I think you need to address the whole issue of your dd's responsibilities now that she is working. I don't think that's bad, either - things change and our responsibliities shift. Maybe you & your dh & she need to sit down and discuss the changed dynamic and what her responsibilites at home need to look like. Things do change when a dd starts moving into the "adult" world - they often don't have time to do the same things t hey used to do at home. That said, it does sound as if she needs an attitude adjustment! :grouphug: I know this is a hard stage!! Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 This has nothing to do with Sabbath. This is part your dd's growing up. She should be doing her own laundry and not leaving messes for everyone else. Yes, she has a lot to juggle, but that's part of life as a "big person!" I'd sit her down and say, "Hey you're off the hook for everyone else's cleaning, but now your job is to clean up after yourself! And since you're doing well on the job, you are now paying your own insurance!" Welcome to the real world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2pandc Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 If you're having the you gets clean up Saturday to prepare for the sabbath on Sunday, then I would enforce that the older do her preparing on Friday. She needs to get her chores and preparations for the next week done the day before her sabbath. That's personal responsibility to plan ahead for what's going on in the coming days. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Huh. Sounds like you have far more of a problem than the Sabbath. I wouldn't change anyone's day of worship anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 We don't make her clean up after meals she didn't partake in. When I mean she doesn't do chores, I mean, she leave her laundry for us to wash because it's now her Sabbath and she needs her clothes for Monday. She won't dust or clean her room or the basement living room area which the teens use. She'll leave her clothes in the bathroom and won't even change the toilet paper. All because SHE has to work and apparently what I and the rest of us do all day in the barns and in the house is just chopped liver. She keeps says she'd have it better if she lived on her own and there are weeks I'm getting ready to give her, her very wish! I'd like to see what happens when meals and lunches don't magically appear and laundry lays stinking on the floor day after day. The crazy part is 2 years ago, I'd have told you that I would trust this child to maintain the house, cook and clean up after meals and watch children 5 hours and night while doing school work. It's like an alien has invaded her brain. The best was sitting there quietly listening to her harp on about how she only made $700 for a two week cycle. She is making 3/4 of what my husband and I make a month. Why are we paying for her car insurance?????? Sorry, had to rant. Going to flip over MY laundry. So, really, there are two different issues going on here. 1. When she takes her Sabbath and 2. She's not pulling her weight. 1. Sabbath: I would assume if she's taking her Sabbath at a different time than the rest of you, that she isn't at home and therefore is not interrupting your Sabbath. So no issue there. If she is home taking her Sabbath when the rest of you aren't, then I would say she is just going to have to deal with it. 2.Chores: this has nothing to do with the work/Sabbath issue. In adult life everyone has to work, everyone has Sabbath, and everyone has chores. Everyone else figures it out, she's going to have to also. So, DON'T DO ANYTHING FOR HER THAT SHE SHOULD BE DOING FOR HERSELF. If her laundry doesn't get done and she doesn't have clean clothes, that is her problem, no one else's. If there are chores that she should be doing that affect the rest of the family that aren't getting done, assign them to one of the kids and make her pay (MONEY) for it. She can choose to purchase her way out of chores or she can do them, just like an adult. I would give her a warning that this is how it's going to be from now on. I would also offer to help her come up with a plan to figure out her new schedule and when she's going to get things done. This is a new life skill and she'll need some help in getting it right. But under no circumstances would I allow the fact that she has a job to become an excuse for not doing her housework. When she lives on her own and goes to work each day her laundry is not going to magically wash itself nor will her house magically clean itself. She's got to learn to do both. If she refuses to learn, she would have to give up the job. BTW, I would absolutely stop paying the car insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginszoo Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 This is a great time for her to learn personal time management skills. Even if she was living on her own, household tasks would fall to her -- they all would. She needs to start learning how to pre-plan for her Sabbath just how you have to pre-plan for yours. On her day of preparation (whatever day of the week that might be), she would need to be in charge of doing whatever preparation she needs to do -- laundry, her share of the household chores, preparing a lunch to be consumed on her Sabbath if meal prep is an issue, even making sure that the toilet roll is full if you/she are going to take the 'no work' to that extreme, etc. And it's defeating the whole point if she is doing things that are a disservice to other family members like leaving her stuff in the bathroom, etc. there is nothing about serving God in inconveniencing others in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 You changed horses midstream with this one. I thought it was about taking the Sabbath and suddenly it is about her not taking responsibility. I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 This doesn't have anything to do with observing Sabbath. IMO her behavior of using Sabbath as an excuse to make you act as her personal servant is not observing Sabbath. I would not wash her clothes. I would not pick up her things. Pick up other peoples things, but leave hers on the floor, maybe kicked in the corner. If she knows she needs things ready on Monday, there is no reason she is not doing her wash on Friday. Part of being an adult is thinking ahead--do the laundry 'cause you need it in two days. Do not do chores that only help her (LEAVE HER LAUNDRY ALONE). Let her live with the consequences of not planning ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 So if she is working Monday through Wednesday and there is a no work rule for her Saturday, what is she doing Thursday, Friday and Sunday that she can't do laundry? The rest is personal responsibility and nothing to do with religion. If she is 18 and living at home without doing chores when she does have free time (like the rest of the working adults in the country) she should be paying someone to do those chores for her. If she were on her own and didn't clean she would have to hire a cleaning lady. If you are taking responsibility as cleaning lady because your dd refused to do it herself, she needs to pay you. Consider starting a nominal amount for room and board. You don't want her to not save and have a good start when she does leave home, but you don't want to be unpaid help. Room and board $100 a month,, and she can use the washing machine and dryer on Thursdays for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 It sounds like you have two issues going on, Sabbath and dd's responsibilities. I certainly would not clean up after her or make her lunches unless it was an everyone meal. If her clothes are in the bathroom toss them in her room. It sounds like it's time for a new plan. :grouphug: If she can't help clean the teen room she doesn't need to use it. Is there something else going on. Is she anxious about *growing up*? Thanks ladies, I needed the tough love. After talking with hubby, I think Starr nailed the root of the problem. Our dd is terrified of growing up, the problem is she's already there, age wise. I think part of her wants us to "ground" her. But I can't and won't. She is 19. She goes to see a councilor and some of the conversations they have been having are about "pulling up your big girl panties". So, she is hearing this from multiple fronts. It seems like she can manage work perfectly, her boss and workmates have told us they love working with her and how efficient she is., etc. I stand there smiling thinking who are they talking about??? But I know she can be very efficient and manage her time well. I've see her do it! She can be amazing with her work, but I think right now she has to many plates up in the air and she's afraid she is going to drop one so I think she's deliberately dropping her home ball. Hubby also reminded me that she has been telling boy friend that she can't talk, she's too tired, has too much to do etc and then hanging up for the night. Daddy says I am to write out what I expect from her daily, weekly, monthly. Then he will review it with her. If she doesn't have time, or doesn't get it done then we will have the right to charge her to get those jobs done by a younger sibling. At the same rate of pay she is currently getting at work per hour. It will hurt financially. She did talked to me after I posted and told me that she realizes that she's not been doing right by us lately and she realizes it has to stop. That's all good, but now I want to start seeing some changes. So, her dirty laundry is back in her room, (ok, I put it back already sorted for her, give me a break) I am prepping lunch for tomorrow and her work dinner for tomorrow because she'll be able to attend church with us in the morning but will only have 25 minutes from after church until she has to leave for work. Hubby says we will get through this. I am just hoping I have hair at the end of raising 4 children! Ps. We aren't charging her for the car insurance right now, because she is paying for all her schooling, medical costs, gas, and extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 In my opinion there is truly no reason for you to be managing any of these aspects of your adult daughter's life. Issue A: She needs to decide (1) if, (2) when, and (3) how to observe a sabbath as part of her faith life. Her answers to these issues are none of your concern, and you should not concern yourself with them. If she wants you to pastor her, she will ask you. If she asks you, you should respond in a pastoral way -- with gentle guidance of her own thought processes, not by telling her that she definitely ought to do things the way you think best. Issue B: She needs to be responsible for her own belongings, spaces, and housekeeping needs. She is free to do these things poorly as long as issue C does not come into play. You are completely free not to cook for her, if cooking for her is something you'd rather not do. You probably should have stopped doing her laundry years ago... and you probably should have never started paying for her car insurance. Apron strings stress relationships and hardly ever do anybody any good. Issue C: She needs to not be a pain or a burden to her family members with whom she shares a home. Clothes or belongings left in public spaces can be used to make that choice inconvenient for her -- there are various strategies that involve getting them out of the way and needing to trouble herself to get them back (and/or) putting them in a place that bothers her. Refusing to care for public household spaces should result in a reasonable monetary fine for the work others had to put into space she uses -- perhaps 1 hour's worth of an hourly wage per week? Or does it take more than an hour of hard work per person to tidy the teen room? Issue D: She needs to learn to discuss her decisions about her life without sounding like she is making excuses or trying to manipulate others. She is an employed person. That has it's own challenges -- she can talk about them, but they are challenges that are hers, not yours, and not her siblings. Don't let her say or imply anything to the contrary. Offer sympathy, but reflect the responsibility back to her. If she is not satisfied with her pay level, it's not your job to change her mind or compare her level of wage-satisfaction with your own level of wage-satisfaction. You and she are different people. You are allowed to have different opinions. Her opinions are allowed to be less mature than yours. Issue E: You need to learn that you are living with an adult. She will live where she likes, and she will make her decisions work out in whatever way seems best to her. It is not your decision to 'give' her the right to move out. That right is hers, and she will exercise it when it seems good to her to exercise it. We don't make her clean up after meals she didn't partake in. When I mean she doesn't do chores, I mean, she leave her laundry for us to wash because it's now her Sabbath and she needs her clothes for Monday. She won't dust or clean her room or the basement living room area which the teens use. She'll leave her clothes in the bathroom and won't even change the toilet paper. All because SHE has to work and apparently what I and the rest of us do all day in the barns and in the house is just chopped liver. She keeps says she'd have it better if she lived on her own and there are weeks I'm getting ready to give her, her very wish! I'd like to see what happens when meals and lunches don't magically appear and laundry lays stinking on the floor day after day.The crazy part is 2 years ago, I'd have told you that I would trust this child to maintain the house, cook and clean up after meals and watch children 5 hours and night while doing school work. It's like an alien has invaded her brain. The best was sitting there quietly listening to her harp on about how she only made $700 for a two week cycle. She is making 3/4 of what my husband and I make a month. Why are we paying for her car insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Sounds like you and your dh are on the same page and on the right track - this is always good! :thumbup1: And it sounds as if your daughter's heart is in the right place - you just have to help her find her way!! Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Just some additonal thoughts about an oldest child and household chores: Maybe her time for many of them is over. As the oldest, she was likely doing much of the chores when her siblings were too little. Now it;s their turn. Diamond pointed that out to me- she was right! BAbybaby is now learning how to cook and do laundry, at a MUCH older age than her sisters did. Does your eldest do other things that you rely on? For example, Diamond can drive. Sending her to the Chiropractor with a sister, or driving her sister to the dance studio (they have back-to-back classes- they take turns waiting) REALLLLY frees up my time. I'd much rather stay home, grade schoolwork, and cook and do laundry than go sit in a waiting room. That is now Diamond's "chore" and I relieved her of a night of cooking. Also, try re-assigning household jobs so that the ones Eldest is responsible for are ones that can be done anytime without disrupting the family. For example, vacuuming rather than dishes. car washing and getting oil changes rather than cooking dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I also think it would be incredibly difficult to be on different Sabbath schedules. Maybe it would be enough for her to spend a couple of quiet hours doing a Bible Study or worship of some kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well, I don't have anything new to add, because so many have already given great advice. But I'd like to reiterate that said teen needs to be given responsibilities and figure out when and how she can get these done. It's a necessary life skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Just some additonal thoughts about an oldest child and household chores: Maybe her time for many of them is over. As the oldest, she was likely doing much of the chores when her siblings were too little. Now it;s their turn. Diamond pointed that out to me- she was right! BAbybaby is now learning how to cook and do laundry, at a MUCH older age than her sisters did. Does your eldest do other things that you rely on? For example, Diamond can drive. Sending her to the Chiropractor with a sister, or driving her sister to the dance studio (they have back-to-back classes- they take turns waiting) REALLLLY frees up my time. I'd much rather stay home, grade schoolwork, and cook and do laundry than go sit in a waiting room. That is now Diamond's "chore" and I relieved her of a night of cooking. Also, try re-assigning household jobs so that the ones Eldest is responsible for are ones that can be done anytime without disrupting the family. For example, vacuuming rather than dishes. car washing and getting oil changes rather than cooking dinner. VERY true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well, the solution to getting someone of any age to do their laundry is easy-peasy. You do nothing! Just don't do it. Then they have the choice of recycling dirty laundry or doing it themselves. Back when oldest ds was about 13 and next oldest was 11 (and I had 2 youngers), I told them that they needed to start doing their own laundry and showed them how. Ds oldest protested that none of his friends had to do laundry and he wasn't going to do it either. I said, "That's fine. But I'm not going to do it either." He did laundry right away. Next oldest ds recycled for a while. I had to be okay with that and I was. If she doesn't get her clothes done before her Sabbath and she needs them on Monday, I guess she has a problem that she will need to figure out on her own. Just give her notice of the new system on Monday. The rest is up to her. Same thing with car insurance. Tell her you won't be able to pay the next payment, that she will need to get her own by _____ date. Then let her. How often can you do nothing and get what you want? ;) (Of course, you have to be willing to allow your kiddo to learn by having to wear dirty laundry or having to arrange a ride to work because she didn't pay the car insurance.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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