Consistent discipline seems to evade me.

[SKL]

If consistency is the key, how do you do it - particularly if you are not home most of your waking hours? Particularly if there are influencers in your life who do not entirely share your views on priorities and discipline?

 

Or is it possible that consistency is not the key to good discipline - at least in some situations? Are there alternative ways to be successful when life just isn't consistent?

 

In case it matters, I am a single mom who works 7 days per week. My kids (adopted around age 1) are 6 and attend brick-and-mortar school. We "afterschool." My eldest has a variety of issues that affect her behavior. Processing issues, sensory issues, insecurities, highly affected by sugar, and maybe some other stuff. Because she needs activity and we don't live in a sunny place, we attend extracurriculars most days. The time we spend chillin at home is very limited and competes with a good night's sleep.

 

I'm feeling at a loss today with my daughter's stealing and disruptive behavior at school. Every time I think I might have it figured out, another incident comes to my attention. I need a discipline toolkit that works for this child.

 

I'm not opposed to spanking, but she doesn't respond to it like a normal kid. She has a very high pain tolerance. After she gets a spanking, she's likely to come back and calmly critique my technique without the slightest fear. While I have used spankings to get her attention at times, it isn't an effective consequence for the big stuff.

 

Taking away stuff just makes her that much more likely to sneak and horde.

 

We've had every kind of "talk" you can imagine.

 

The other factor is my other 6yo, who is a completely different person. Any drastic lifestyle change is going to affect her.

 

I'm open to ideas, folks. Are we a lost cause?

[SKL]

Well I would say it's pretty hard to parent when you aren't actually with your kids most of the time. This is my criticism of schools saying it's not their job to parent yet they are the ones kids are spending so much time with. So my thought would be to talk with the teacher and see if you can come up with something together? Really other than that I don't know.

 

Of course it doesn't help that I feel the teacher is guilting me about the behavior. Like if I felt badly enough about it I would stop spoiling my kid. Sigh. I don't think I spoil my kid. But she sure acts like it at times.

 

Teacher and I don't ever seem to be on the same wavelength, but I try. I think I have finally convinced her that she must NEVER give my kid sugar in school again (unless it's something I sent in). That's a start.

 

I am thinking of having one of those behavior cards for the teachers to initial each day. It sounds weird to me, but maybe it would help to have the frequent reminder and short-term reinforcement. Wonder if the teacher will embrace the idea or just get irritated.

[Barefoot Explorer]

To answer your first question, I do think that consistency is really important. But I think that it won't really matter how good of a job you are doing at home if everything is getting undone at school. If the teacher is not on the same page as you, she will probably undo a lot of your progress. I am not sure what the solution to this is.

 

On my recent thread about discipline, a lot of people made book recommendations that looked promising. You might try looking at those books and seeing if any of them would be helpful.

 

Emily

[Jean in Newcastle]

You can only be consistent when you are there and you can only enforce consistency in yourself. So when you are with your children, be consistent. This does help. I've had kids who are not my own (and therefore not with me much) behave for me because in the class I've had them I've been consistent and they've learned to respect that.

[Starr]

If consistency is the key, how do you do it - particularly if you are not home most of your waking hours? Particularly if there are influencers in your life who do not entirely share your views on priorities and discipline?

 

Or is it possible that consistency is not the key to good discipline - at least in some situations? Are there alternative ways to be successful when life just isn't consistent?

 

In case it matters, I am a single mom who works 7 days per week. My kids (adopted around age 1) are 6 and attend brick-and-mortar school. We "afterschool." My eldest has a variety of issues that affect her behavior. Processing issues, sensory issues, insecurities, highly affected by sugar, and maybe some other stuff. Because she needs activity and we don't live in a sunny place, we attend extracurriculars most days. The time we spend chillin at home is very limited and competes with a good night's sleep.

 

I'm feeling at a loss today with my daughter's stealing and disruptive behavior at school. Every time I think I might have it figured out, another incident comes to my attention. I need a discipline toolkit that works for this child.

 

I'm not opposed to spanking, but she doesn't respond to it like a normal kid. She has a very high pain tolerance. After she gets a spanking, she's likely to come back and calmly critique my technique without the slightest fear. While I have used spankings to get her attention at times, it isn't an effective consequence for the big stuff.

 

Taking away stuff just makes her that much more likely to sneak and horde.

 

We've had every kind of "talk" you can imagine.

 

The other factor is my other 6yo, who is a completely different person. Any drastic lifestyle change is going to affect her.

 

I'm open to ideas, folks. Are we a lost cause?

 

 

Stealing, hoarding, I think this is not just discipline. You may need some other help. :grouphug:

[dbmamaz]

yeah, i agree - a child you adopted at 1 who is stealing and hoarding is not a discipline problem. its a bigger issue. get an evaluation. ask your pediatrician for referrals.

[Faithr]

I recommend the book Hold Onto Your Kids.

[AnIslandGirl]

I don't think that consistency has to be tied to a routine, but I do think that consequences should be known ahead of time for any infraction, and that the consequence should be immediate (not, get in trouble hours after the event). Even if you have different expectations than a teacher or other caregiver, your girls should know the rules that each adult in their lives have and to follow those rules depending on who they are with. It would be great if the adults were all on the same page, but it's not always the case.

 

We have found that creating family traditions can really help ground children too.

In our house, we do yoga each day at sunrise to start our day, followed by guided imagery. This could be tailored to your girls. http://www.amazon.com/Guided-Imagery-Children-Performance-Self-Esteem/dp/1570252149/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360947181&sr=8-2&keywords=guided+imagery+school

 

(for example; close your eyes and relax... breath in and out... picture yourself having a wonderful, calm day at school... picture how that looks.... walking into the classroom, slowly hanging up your coat...sitting at your desk with your eyes on the teacher and your listening ears turned on... as the teacher gives directions, you hear them and do exactly as she says... picture yourself happy and smiling, knowing that you are learning and growing...how wonderful you will feel getting a perfect behavior report today... your day will be calm and peaceful)

 

I find that when I can slow down, even just a little, there is a wonderful sense of calm that carries on through everyone in the house, and behavior is 100% improved. They really do pick up on the feelings of people around them, like stress and anxiety and on the flipside, happiness and joyfulness as well.

You said that your oldest really needs activity, but is there any way you could remove a few of the scheduled after-school activities and spend the time with them yourself instead of relying on other teachers? Taking a walk around the neighborhood, playing tag or tossing a ball at a park or even just turning on the radio for a impromptu dance party in the kitchen wile you get dinner ready. This time is not only a great way to burn off extra energy, but it's also a great time to talk (without it seeming like an inquiry or a lecture).

 

Some children do need the extra help from a professional, and if you or your daughter feel like it's coming to that, it's OK. Sometimes we need to remind ourselves that we can't always do it all.

 

Good luck! :grouphug:

[Parrothead]

Please consider having her evaluated. This sounds like more than attention seeking.

 

If you are working 7 days a week, who is watching your kids when they are not in school?

[Catwoman]

Stealing, sneaking, and lying aren't ordinary discipline issues, so I don't have any good advice for you, but I'll send you a :grouphug:

 

Do the school counselors or the school psychologist have any ideas for you? This seems like the kind of behavior that won't be remedied by ordinary disciplinary measures. It sounds like there's a deeper issue there, but I haven't the slightest clue what you can do about it, except to talk to the school authorities and request their assistance. I'm sure this isn't the first time they have dealt with these kinds of issues, so hopefully they will know what to do, or where to direct you to go for help.

 

Sorry you have to deal with this! :grouphug:

[TammyS]

Who are the other adults in their lives? The father? A grandparent? How do they act for them?

 

I also agree with PP who said cut back some of the scheduled stuff and do energy burning activities at home with the kid. She'll get her energy burn along with more time with mom, which is good for both of you, and gives you the practical chance to observe her more and get more of a sense of what's going on.

[catz]

Hopefully I'm not coming across as harsh, but do you need to work 7 days a week? Do they need to be doing so many things? Maybe she just needs a little more one on one time with you. If you can't cut back a little, what about finding a big sister type person to spend some time with her? Group activities are not really a substitute for this. KWIM?

 

Just a thought. I know I would not have done well with such a schedule as a kid. But I know personalities differ on that one.

 

 

This is what I am wondering too. Some 6 year olds would be absolutely fine with this kind of schedule. Full time B&M + after schooling + many activities is a heavy schedule for the average 6 year old. If I saw consistent behavioral problems, I'd look at changing up something to see if behavior improved at all. I think an evaluation would be a good direction to take too.

[SKL]

Please consider having her evaluated. This sounds like more than attention seeking.

 

If you are working 7 days a week, who is watching your kids when they are not in school?

 

 

On weekdays they go to "Late Room" at school until I pick them up. From there, I take them straight to their gym activity if there is one, or home. The school night activities are all recreational and seem really good for both of my kids. Depending on the day, we fit dinner, reading, studying, and therapy in somehow. On Saturdays, their ex-nanny comes for the morning. Her homeland is near theirs and she shares cultural (arts, language, etc) stuff with them and takes them to swimming class while I work. On Sundays after church, my sister hangs out with them while I work. She shares family traditions, cooks with them, etc. I work at home, so on weekends I'm usually within earshot.

 

Do I need to work 7 days? Yes, but I could probably cut some hours down if I were more disciplined myself. I do some personal stuff on work time because it's easier to do it when nobody's around. That makes the work day/week longer.

 

Where I live, it's too hard to come up with enough outdoor activity since the days are short as well as cold this time of year.

 

I am not sure that fewer activities would be best. My kids have always been used to doing activities almost every day. My eldest isn't big on imaginitive play. When she has putz time at home, she goes for the nail polish and/or gets her ideas for sneaking stuff she isn't supposed to have. :/ That's what happened yesterday. The gymnastics and karate are a couple of areas where she can shine while staying out of trouble.

 

I'll continue to consider the counseling idea. This has been suggested before. She's not a complete psycho case, but she does seem to have an empty space that needs filling. Maybe her school psych can give me a referral.

[Freckles]

What's wrong with nail polish for a six year old girl? My girls love that stuff. I know others have mentioned this, but it sounds to me like this little girl needs more down time with you. A chance to be little. Watch movies, play games, eat popcorn, or paint each others nails. I'm not really surprised there is a lack of consistency in discipline and expectations. How can there not be. She has so many different people in authority over her expecting different things. I was a nanny for years, and I taught pre-school and first grade. Of course the parents were different then I was, we were different people. I tried to maintain their wishes the best I could, but I was the one with the children 10 hours a day. As a teacher,I did not expect to have to parent my students. I was their teacher, and their parent was the parent. Of course I would make exceptions for food allergies/intolerences for parties, but it was my classroom. I made the rules and set up the classroom management. I'm not trying to sound uncaring because I'm truly sorry you both are going thru this, but activites are not a replacement for the peace and calm that little kids need after being on their best behavior all day. I hope things get better for you all.

[2squared]

I am not sure that fewer activities would be best. My kids have always been used to doing activities almost every day. My eldest isn't big on imaginitive play. When she has putz time at home, she goes for the nail polish and/or gets her ideas for sneaking stuff she isn't supposed to have. :/ That's what happened yesterday. The gymnastics and karate are a couple of areas where she can shine while staying out of trouble.

 

I don't know your unique situation as my kids are all bio, but I, too, think you may have the kids so busy avoiding bad behavior that they don't get a chance to learn and practice good behavior. I think every human should know how to entertain themselves and have enough white space to create their own identities.

 

I say this as a mom who is trying to create enough down time and white space for my own kids. We are in a season of running everywhere, and I see how the running impact my littles. When we are running here and there and everywhere, I don't have discipline and train the littles like I do when we are at home.

[SKL]

As a teacher,I did not expect to have to parent my students. I was their teacher, and their parent was the parent. Of course I would make exceptions for food allergies/intolerences for parties, but it was my classroom. I made the rules and set up the classroom management.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. Of course it's your classroom to manage, but what do you do when there is a child marching to her own beat in your classroom? In no way am I suggesting my kid needs different rules at school (other than the zero sugar). But I don't know how I can make her follow the rules when I'm here and she's there. I coach her morning and afternoon, consequence when I hear of a problem, etc. I support the teachers 100%. I attempt to send her to school well-fed and rested. I prepare her breakfast and lunch using high protein, low sugar/starch, organic food choices to minimize the bad effects of diet. I perform various therapies and work with her on academics every day. I don't know what else I can do to influence her behavior in school. It apparently isn't enough.

[SKL]

I should have noted that my kid does not exhibit the school behavior problems at home. The stealing, yes, occasionally. But she is very mellow with me. She'll peacefully sit for hours doing schoolwork with me. She's the first to run and do her piano practice, declaring that she wants it over with. She'll pretty much do whatever I tell her. Doesn't generally instigate her sister, isn't destructive or mean or loud or oppositional. She also didn't have these problems in KG (different, smaller school). Makes me think there's something about the school environment that sets her off. But even if that's true, she needs to figure out how to control herself there.

 

ETA: My point about her different behavior at home: it's harder for me to address the specific school behaviors if she doesn't do those things at home.

[SKL]

 

Then again, having 20-30 different personalities in a room is probably extremely challenging and they just don't have the time to deal with it.

 

I am sure it is difficult. I can't honestly imagine meeting the different needs of 23 very different kids for 7 hours a day. I just need some direction on how to do my part better.

[SKL]

I think it's also possible that she made a mistake and has been labeled from it and the teacher just expects she is going to misbehave and treats her accordingly.

 

Maybe she is bored? Maybe she has a tough time focusing? Maybe both?

 

 

She's soon to undergo testing to see how they want to label her. I know she has vision and auditory processing issues. I strongly suspect she has reactions to environmental things like the bright colors, frequent changes, and fluorescent lights. I picture her as getting dizzy / giddy when they mix things up on her. Add sugar (which they did on Tuesday morning) and it's all over. Teacher instructions are not obeyed and she disrupts by blabbing and doing her own thing. It's frustrating for the teachers, but I truly don't know how to help her. I know she doesn't set out to exasperate her teachers.

 

Of course the stealing is a whole different issue. Though I'm lost on how to address that, too.

[Freckles]

hmmm, I suppose I meant as the teacher I couldn't be expected to follow the parents every wish for their child when it came to consequences. I wouldn't be able to enforce the same as you the parent. As the teacher, I would have my own set of rewards/consequences. I can only speak for myself, but if I were your daughters teacher I would do a couple of things differently than what I'm understanding her current teacher is doing.

- I would keep my desk locked, and rewards put away from reach

- I would provide a "safe" area (like a bean bag under a window) for any student to regain composure and then rejoin the group

- During group work I regularly turned the desks around of my very busy students to minimize the distractions while I was teaching

- During seat work it never bothered me for kids to stand up at their desks. I also provide squeeze balls for hands that needed to stay busy while listening. If they were ever thrown that priviledge would be lost.

- My incentives were scholar dollars. These could be earned by being quiet, respectful, kind, listening to directions, good effort on seat work, I always tried to find a way for every type of student I had to earn plenty throughout the week. At the end of the week, they could buy a treasure out of the treasure box that was put away until we needed it, or they could save their money to buy something bigger later.

- On days that I had a student that was being more challenging, they would become my assistant so to speak. "Susie" will you please point to the words on our spelling list. "Susie" will you please wipe the board off for me. "Susie" will you please take a buddy and walk this to the office. Praise Praise Praise for right choices, and lots of appropriate side hugs for reassurance. If needed I would pull the child to the side and talk quietly about expectations and proper classroom behavior. I've also used a traffic light system on a daily chart for a couple of my kids that had some emotional trauma when they were younger.

I'm not sure I answered your question, but remember teachers change every year. She may not click with this one, but maybe next year.

[regentrude]

I should have noted that my kid does not exhibit the school behavior problems at home. The stealing, yes, occasionally. But she is very mellow with me. She'll peacefully sit for hours doing schoolwork with me. She's the first to run and do her piano practice, declaring that she wants it over with. She'll pretty much do whatever I tell her. Doesn't generally instigate her sister, isn't destructive or mean or loud or oppositional.

 

 

I would have her evaluated by a professional to see if any of her issues are related to her adoption and her life before. Normally, kids who can choose to behave behave better in school and worse at home for their parents - the reverse can indicate problems with attachment, feeling less secure of unconditional love at home. Please understand that I am not saying this to criticize your parenting in any way- this is about her, not you.

[SKL]

hmmm, I suppose I meant as the teacher I couldn't be expected to follow the parents every wish for their child when it came to consequences. I wouldn't be able to enforce the same as you the parent. As the teacher, I would have my own set of rewards/consequences. I can only speak for myself, but if I were your daughters teacher I would do a couple of things differently than what I'm understanding her current teacher is doing.

- I would keep my desk locked, and rewards put away from reach

- I would provide a "safe" area (like a bean bag under a window) for any student to regain composure and then rejoin the group

- During group work I regularly turned the desks around of my very busy students to minimize the distractions while I was teaching

- During seat work it never bothered me for kids to stand up at thier desks. I also provide squeeze balls for hands that needed to stay busy while listening. If they were ever thrown that priviledge would be lost.

- My incentives were scholar dollars. These could be earned by being quiet, respectful, kind, listening to directions, good effort on seat work, I always tried to find a way for every type of student I had to earn plenty throughout the week. At the end of the week, they could buy a treasure out of the treasure box that was put away until we needed it, or they could save their money to buy something bigger later.

- On days that I had a student that was being more challenging, they would become my assistant so to speak. "Susie" will you please point to the words on our spelling list. "Susie" will you please wipe the board off for me. "Susie" will you please take a buddy and walk this to the office. Praise Praise Praise for right choices, and lots of appropriate side hugs for reassurance. If needed I would pull the child to the side and talk quietly about expectations and proper classroom behavior. I've also used a traffic light system on a daily chart for a couple of my kids that had some emotional trauma when they were younger.

I'm not sure I answered your question, but remember teachers change every year. She may not click with this one, but maybe next year.

 

 

Thanks, this is helpful. I think this teacher is offended because my daughter appears to not be afraid of her. My daughter is wired differently, and it may well be "baggage" from past disruptions. When things get ugly she goes into a survival mode and waits for the other shoe to drop. She lays it all out there ("yes, I did this and this and this") without flinching. I guess it could be viewed as a kind of defiance. (This child also does not flinch when undergoing a vaccination or eating a lemon. It's not a baditude thing.)

[SKL]

I would have her evaluated by a professional to see if any of her issues are related to her adoption and her life before. Normally, kids who can choose to behave behave better in school and worse at home for their parents - the reverse can indicate problems with attachment, feeling less secure of unconditional love at home. Please understand that I am not saying this to criticize your parenting in any way- this is about her, not you.

 

 

Interesting point. Yes, she's always been extremely rule-bound for her age, especially when she was younger.

[SKL]

So - if counseling is something I should pursue, should it wait until summer vacation?

[Freckles]

Well, I would be thanking her for her honesty about her choices, and then discussing the natural consequence if she were in my classroom That way there is no power struggle. I'm brainstorming here, but maybe she needs her own contract written out. This behavior leads to walking during recess instead of playing. Having listening ears for an entire morning earns her 2 stickers on her take home chart. I don't know. It just sounds like she needs something concrete to refer back to in her desk. Her contract can be made with pictures as visual clues to proper expectations and outcomes. On another note, I had a student that had an auditory processing disorder. I could not give instructions while standing behind this student. I looked her in the face every time, and I occasionally waited for a verbal or nonverbal signal that she understood. sorry, I ramble.

[SKL]

Well, I would be thanking her for her honesty about her choices, and then discussing the natural consequence if she were in my classroom That way there is no power struggle. I'm brainstorming here, but maybe she needs her own contract written out. This behavior leads to walking during recess instead of playing. Having listening ears for an entire morning earns her 2 stickers on her take home chart. I don't know. It just sounds like she needs something concrete to refer back to in her desk. Her contract can be made with pictures as visual clues to proper expectations and outcomes. On another note, I had a student that had an auditory processing disorder. I could not give instructions while standing behind this student. I looked her in the face every time, and I occasionally waited for a verbal or nonverbal signal that she understood. sorry, I ramble.

 

 

I agree with this. I need to do some more brainstorming and hopefully I will prepare something to suggest to the teacher next week. (Maybe I'll run it by the Hive first.)