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#51 Dicentra

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

Connie,

I think it's encouraging that a thread on science, especially chemistry, has more followers than the whole high school board itself. :D

I know that picking out a chemistry course can be tough enough, paying for it can be even more difficult in this economy. I have a 2006 Holt Chemistry text that is in excellent condition, that I am happy to send on for the price of shipping. Just pm me if you are interested.

Also, while I was searching for free lesson plans to link to the Holt text, I happened across this site with a whole bunch of resources. I am losing track so if someone has already posted this, my apologies: http://www.nclark.net/Chemistry

Ms. Clark's site has a fun lab safety video.


Maybe we'll eventually convince everyone on the forum that chemistry is the BEST of all the sciences!!! (Ducking rotten fruit and garbage now...) :laugh:

So I'm wondering...

Folks have been adding links and reviews to the thread like mad - it's awesome! Should I copy and paste everything into the original lists that I posted or should I just leave it be? I didn't want to just go ahead and copy and paste other people's contributions into the original lists 'cause I thought then it would seem as though "I" were trying to take credit for all of it. :ohmy: But then I didn't want all the great info to be lost in the thread if it got long (and I know the search feature on the forum is a bit wonky since the change-over).

Any thoughts on which way to go?
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#52 Sebastian (a lady)

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

Maybe we'll eventually convince everyone on the forum that chemistry is the BEST of all the sciences!!! (Ducking rotten fruit and garbage now...) :laugh:

So I'm wondering...

Folks have been adding links and reviews to the thread like mad - it's awesome! Should I copy and paste everything into the original lists that I posted or should I just leave it be? I didn't want to just go ahead and copy and paste other people's contributions into the original lists 'cause I thought then it would seem as though "I" were trying to take credit for all of it. :ohmy: But then I didn't want all the great info to be lost in the thread if it got long (and I know the search feature on the forum is a bit wonky since the change-over).

Any thoughts on which way to go?


What about adding them into the summary pages so all the info is together, but adding a comments section for entries with a "hat tip" to the other poster who contributed. That would also let people direct specific questions to folks with experience with those books.

I also like the idea of review of lab options.
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#53 4wildberrys

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

1. Well, I'd have a mixed answer on that. Yes, if the student focuses and follows the logic of the text, the photo captions and all, plus the labs, with the parent or student going over the full answer key daily and the email option as back-up, then the dots are connected. But if no one corrects the work daily, problems could build. And if a student needs lengthy explanations, this book is generally concise and not lengthy. However, sometimes texts with lengthy descriptions go in circles and the student zones out because he doesn't know which details to focus on, so he doesn't get to the next dot, KWIM? Sorry if that's a non answer :) Oh, and we used the Kahn videos on occasion. Orbitals is the one that was most helpful. The chapter was going along okay, but the lab tried to show a common "short cut" and, like Kahn mentioned, we really like knowing the reasoning and not memorizing the short cut for that.

2. For math, if all else fails, there is Bridge Math, but if the student isn't afraid of algebra and still remembers how to balance equations and such, I'd think it's possible she could follow the logic.

In the first half of the book so far, most of the problems end up looking something like the problem in sample number 4 (although sometimes the numbers are much larger and more complex).
At the bottom page 202, do you see the "fractions" all lined up?
http://beginningspub...spectchem05.pdf

Mathematically, the main thing is to be able to
(a ) set up the equation properly by understanding the lesson (setting it up so the only "unknown" will be the answer)
(b ) then be able to reduce the problem (eliminating things that are on both the top and bottom, and the student has made some choices anticipating what will need to be reduced so that he's left with the units needed in the answer),
(c ) and finally to calculate using a calculator if needed.

The only math I can think of that wasn't similar to that was the little dots (Lewis diagrams). I talked my son through that first chapter using my answer key and he decided they were fun.

3. Yes.

4. I don't know, everything has its pros and cons. Every textbook author is better at explaining some things than others. Most kids are going to get stuck here or there.

Again, one con is that short sometimes means a student must really focus and follow the logic, and teens don't always do that. But again, long sometimes mean major points are buried between minor details.

The other con is that I don't like teaching my son science :( My son is very difficult to deal with in science and we've had our moments every year. I'm not sure this has anything to do with Spectrum, though :) But as an example, a week or so ago, he said he couldn't do a part of the Spectrum exercises because the teacher never explained it, and he was sick of textbooks that don't explain things, and why didn't I teach things like his college math professor etc etc. So I carefully teased out the info from him about which exact piece he wasn't getting (it had to do with +/- in the middle of the periodic table). Because I couldn't readily find the answer without digesting several chapters carefully, I emailed the author with the details of exactly which piece didn't get. The author carefully explained where this is taught and how my son should have gradually been picking this up in such-and-such chapters. I forwarded the email to my son, he did the problems, and he hasn't complained since. So, I think the lesson was there, but that doesn't mean my son won't have his occasional issues connecting the dots. Early on, my son absolutely balked at the "significant digits" issue required in all problems, because "that's not the way you do math." The book was quite clear on the scientific reasoning for making only certain digits significant. But I had to get both students to pay attention, and in my son's case, talk him into it. (And he's really a good-natured kid, has gone thru major life stress and made sure everyone was happy, but hasn't got a lot of stamina left for times he can't make things happy and wonderful.)

Anyways... as for the pros of Spectrum, most important to me are:
1. The teacher book that explains the point of each lab, and gives me complete answers to tests etc., with email as a back-up. There is no expectation that the teacher already gets it, has other materials to teach from, or is adding his own explanations.
2. The labs really get done. With Apologia, my son just kept on reading and said he "got it already" about the labs. With other lab programs, he tended to say they were more work than they were worth. The only two years he's done all the labs were Rainbow year 1 and this year. Maybe I shouldn't admit that here amongst all these "well trained minds"! But IRL I've found similar experiences in many homes, with undone labs at the end of the year. Beginnings Publishing labs are clear, everything is there, they usually work, and there is a point to them in the teacher book that I can tell my son :)

HTH,
Julie


Julie--your son sounds just like mine---scary :p Lol--my son balks immensely about the whole sig fig thing and its always a battle to get him to do it correctly.

Another high school chemistry curriculum is Ace Paces Chemistry. We are using it alongside Apologia, and the Apologia is an easy walk in the park so far compared to Ace! Lots of complicated math problems so far with gas laws etc. so far.

http://www.christian...652487?event=CF
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#54 Joan in GE

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:16 AM

Now, my dd calls it a 'chemistry course in diapers' :-). She wasn't able to watch it at 2x speed like ds3 where we had the videos for physics. There is annoying music and silliness. But we are still using it due to all the support materials, just as a base, because she has to also do the Swiss program and it covers most of the same concepts. Dd needs the review and notetaking...She tried it first without using their support materials and when I gave her the test, she couldn't pass....


I have to add something about the GPB Chemistry course....even though dd doesn't really like it - she has started tor really like chemistry! She wants to do it as her 'higher' science course for the Swiss matu now.....so that's not bad....

Joan
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#55 Dicentra

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:18 AM

OK...

I've added the links and curricula that everyone has suggested into the main summary posts at the beginning of the thread. If I've missed any or if I've misquoted anyone, PLEASE PM me and let me know - I'd hate for anyone to think that they were being overlooked or misrepresented! :ohmy: :D

I'm still trying to put together an alternative lab plan for the Chang honours chem course using the "doctortang" resources but it's coming! I may actually put together two alternatives - one from a microchem standpoint for doing labs without expensive glassware and equipment and one from a standard wet-chem standpoint for nerds who happen to have burettes and magnetic stirrer hot plates already in their homeschool room. :w00t:

I also have the unit tests that I gave to my Grade 12U Chem students when I taught (equivalent to honours chem). I can't guarantee that they'd match up exactly with the Chang text (or any other honours text for that matter since I had to use an "Ontario gov't approved text" that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy so I actually just gave lectures and made up my own assignments) but I'm willing to share the tests (and I'd even include answer keys with worked answers :)) to anyone that would like them - just PM me.
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#56 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:16 AM

Spectrum chemistry's labs are completely awesome. Every single experiment is well thought out with high impact for understanding concepts. It is very lab intensive (the labs are crucial to the course, not something that could be done via something like a Landry science lab weekend and end up with an understanding of chemistry. There is a hefty lab every single week.)

That said, it is also not an "intensive" course. The bookwork (excluding labs) can be completed in 2-3 days per wk in quite a short amt of time. The labs took ds close to 2 hrs on avg. We chose for Sunday nights to be chem lab night b/c trying to do the labs, write-up, and clean-up during our school days threw us completely off schedule.

The advantage to the way the bookwork is set-up is that it leaves plenty of time for adding in extra bonus materials for reading. Someone wanting to have their student do a complete chemistry course but still wanting them to have time to read things like the Disappearing Spoon or Faraday's Chemical History of a Candle, etc would not be over-burdening the student.

FWIW, I was skeptical when I first received Spectrum b/c it really isn't anything like Prentice Hall's Chemistry (used by Kolbe, don't know if that one was suggested or not in the list. I had 2 kids use that text and it is a solid, typical chem text) or Chang, etc. I had ds complete Plato's Chemistry simultaneously (another very low time commitment supplement. I would definitely not consider it a full course). The 2 complimented each other well and chemistry was not a time-consuming course.

Ds went on to take ChemAdvantage's AP chem the next yr and breezed through that class with one of the highest grades in the class and a 5 on the AP and a 780 on the SAT2. So, even though Spectrum is not traditional in approach b/c the labs are not supplementing the material but are key to it, it provides a solid foundation for higher chem studies.

HTH


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#57 anne1456

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

I am using the GPB videos combined with other youtube videos and ck12.org site for a co-op chemistry class this year. It is mostly online in a Moodle course, and if anyone would like access to it just PM me and I will tell you how to access it.
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#58 wingedradical

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:34 AM

Wow!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

After other research, which I could have gotten in one place had I come here first, :banghead: I am thinking of either Spectrum or Zumdahl along with the Don't Burn the House Down. I do have a question about the Zumdahl option, though. It is late at night and maybe I am just missing it but does the author of Don't Burn the House Down have recommendations for lab glassware and chemicals for the book's labs?

I am not a math/science person at all, and like most non-science people, the idea of teaching chemistry scares me. When I homeschooled my oldest, he skipped it and when I homeschooled my youngest, I outsourced it. I can't do either of those at this time. My student is currently finishing up precalc as a sophomore. She has done biology with lab. She wants (and needs) to do chemistry. However, she is a foster child with many problems. I have concerns about teaching a class I don't know well if it is not student directed. I don't want for us to get bogged down in chemistry since she has other non-academic things to work on. So, I've thought maybe a regular class rather than honors or AP would be better for us, all things considered, even though with a knowledgeable teacher, I believe she is very capable of succeeding in a more advanced class.

Also .. one other question. I did not take chemistry at all in school but my husband did. We qualify as senior citizens, so this was ages ago, but he said that in his high school chemistry course, the students were always coming up with completely different lab results than the book said and also, different from each other. This was not so true in university, he said. But we are a bit concerned because he does not have time to help and this is just what I need - for every experiment to turn out with confusing results. I feel stupid for asking, (ask me about humanities, I'm really good with those) but is his experience common or did he have dunces in his chemistry class (he was in a prep school, so that doesn't seem likely). But I've not heard anyone here mention it. What do you do if that happens? And does the fact that Spectrum gives you the exact amount of chemical(s) you need for each piece of lab work mean you can't repeat -- and is that therefore an issue with Spectrum?

Thanks.
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#59 Donna

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:59 AM

Wow! That is a lot of great information! It will be a little while until we are ready for it with dd10 but I am filing this away for later. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!

Now...if only someone would do this for biology. :laugh:
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#60 quark

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

After other research, which I could have gotten in one place had I come here first, :banghead: I am thinking of either Spectrum or Zumdahl along with the Don't Burn the House Down. I do have a question about the Zumdahl option, though. It is late at night and maybe I am just missing it but does the author of Don't Burn the House Down have recommendations for lab glassware and chemicals for the book's labs?


She recommends the All Lab No Lecture book in her plans. The author of that lab book, Dr Thompson, sells kit(s) that goes with his books. I've seen one version of the kit in real life (I think he updated the kit after a while and I'm not too certain if my link points to the updated version). From what I saw, the kit is quite complete with lab ware and chemicals but you supply things like sugar, salt, distilled water.
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#61 katilac

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:07 PM

I see Power Basics from Walch Education on this list, but not Contemporary Chemistry (from the same publishers). Has anyone used or taken a look at it? They have the full table of contents and sample pages from both student and teacher text on their site. There is a separate lab manual.

http://walch.com/Con...l-Approach.html

Also, does anyone know if the actual text of Spectrum Chemistry is secular or religious in tone?

#62 Julie of KY

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

If you want more info on the Illusatrated Guide to Home Chemistry Labs, I have been teaching from this text since it came out and I've taken a number of students through the text. Feel free to pm me.

In some other thread I compared my impressions of the Tang labs to similar labs in Illustrated Guide. I'm not sure how to link it to this thread.


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#63 Julie in MN

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 01:25 PM

And does the fact that Spectrum gives you the exact amount of chemical(s) you need for each piece of lab work mean you can't repeat -- and is that therefore an issue with Spectrum?

This happened to my son and his lab partner just this week. They did their experiment, which was quite involved, and their results didn't match the answer key in terms of which reaction happened fastest and next fastest, etc., which was one of the main points of the exercise. I felt that having the complete answer key with explanations, along with discussion of the differences, was enough. Even if we had more materials, I doubt we would have redone the experiment. My son's lab partner is only here for an hour or so, and they both have a full schedule.

In fact, even when we've had our own materials for science, I can't remember many times when we re-did experiments that failed. Maybe a few times when they were simple.

I can't imagine ever doing these types of involved experiments if you didn't have small amounts, since the cost would be prohibitive. Even in a public school, I doubt you would use as many chemicals as come with Spectrum, although I don't know. Not every experiment involves a lot of materials, but there must be 50 different vials that come with the set.

 

Also, does anyone know if the actual text of Spectrum Chemistry is secular or religious in tone?

I haven't noticed anything in Spectrum. There was an occasional reference to a creator in Rainbow Science year 1, mostly in the teacher manual, as I recall. I would not guarantee that there is absolute zero mention of a creator in Spectrum, but there isn't much, if any. I find far LESS (edited) "unrelated/unconfirmable/controversial" content in Beginnings Publishing materials than most secular high school texts, IMHO, but it is a Christian author and I could have missed something.

Julie


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#64 Alira

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

Also, does anyone know if the actual text of Spectrum Chemistry is secular or religious in tone?

The publisher is Christian, but the content of the course is completely secular. There is an extra lesson at the end that discusses evolution, but it seemed out of place, so we just skipped it.
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#65 Dicentra

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:01 PM

Wow! That is a lot of great information! It will be a little while until we are ready for it with dd10 but I am filing this away for later. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!

Now...if only someone would do this for biology. :laugh:


Your wish is my command... :D

http://forums.welltr...school-biology/
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#66 Dicentra

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:09 PM

If you want more info on the Illusatrated Guide to Home Chemistry Labs, I have been teaching from this text since it came out and I've taken a number of students through the text. Feel free to pm me.

In some other thread I compared my impressions of the Tang labs to similar labs in Illustrated Guide. I'm not sure how to link it to this thread.


http://forums.welltr...e/#entry4834755

:)

Once upon a time, I had said I was going to do this. I didn't get around to it. My bad. But Julie's already done it! Woo hoo! :hurray:

#67 PameLA in VA

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

I am interested in seeing samples of World of Chemistry by Zumdahl, but can't seem to find any on the web. Also, Amazon has several versions - can someone point me in the right direction for an honors (not AP) level course? We will use either it or the BJU text with the DIVE CD.

THANKS!

#68 Dicentra

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

I would say that Zumdahl's World of Chemistry is used for Reg Chem but other's may have a different take. :) Here's a high school's site where it's used for Reg Chem:
Study questions with answers and chapter reviews

My flipping point for deciding whether a text is Reg Chem or Honours Chem is its treatment of equilibrium. I did the online quiz for that chapter from the publisher's site here:
http://www.classzone...me.htm?state=IL
It doesn't involve a mathematical treatment of equilibrium - for me, that would put it in the Reg Chem category.

If you still want to use it, I think any of the Amazon versions would be fine. They're all just older or newer editions of the same text - the 1st ed looks like it has test tube tops on the cover (2002), the 2nd ed has someone surfing (2007), and the 3rd ed looks like it has someone parasailing (2011). There is also an update of the 1st edition that has a 2005 date. Just make sure that the title is "World of Chemistry" and the author is Zumdahl. Zumdahl has other texts - his AP one is just entitled "Chemistry". As long as you stick with "World of Chemistry", you shouldn't be getting an AP text.

#69 Storm Bay

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:26 PM

Can I ask what made you decide (or where did you find it labeled) that Apologia Chemistry is honors chemistry? I'm not arguing with you! I just want to know your reasoning so that I can decide what to put on our transcript.

This was one of the curricula that I wasn't quite sure on. My tipping point is usually if the curriculum in question contains a mathematical treatment of chemical kinetics and equilibrium - reg chem courses never do that. It's not an "exact science", though. :) I could probably either call this one a higher level reg chem or a basic honours chem.

Hope that helps!


I would put Apologia Chemistry as regular Chem despite its mathematical treatment of chemical kinetics and equilibrium. The Biology is defnitely not honours material.

Calling a class honours on a homeschooled transcript doesn't necessarily mean a lot to many colleges. However, I wish I'd called my dd's honours-level freshman classes honours as she ended up transferring to ps and they have a weighted transcript. Far more important is the book, lab and what you actually cover or do (eg an indepth project, etc). Some require SAT II tests in certain subjects, to help confirm how well a student weighs in in a subject.

Many high schools require extra projects in honours science; ours require kids to do a science fair project, and they get 30 bonus points for their total class grade ETA the 30 extra points are if they enter the science fair; the project itself counts for a significant part of the grade (not a lot, but enough to tip a borderline grade up to the next level). If they have the class in the spring, it's something like that, so I wouldn't go just by what a textbook covers.
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#70 tvaleri

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:02 PM

Weighing Spectrum Chemistry and Zumdahl/Illustrated Guide w/quarks and quirks lesson plans. Anybody know how to get in touch with the wonderful gal who put the latter together? Just need to know where the answers to the chemistry problems are found and if she cut any labs.

Thanks!
Smiles,
Teresa

#71 Lindi

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:03 PM

I didn't see the following reviewed - if it was, I apologize. There is a lot to look through.

A woman in our homeschool community is offereing labs and help for the following but I have been unable to review the book yet (not that I'd know much if I did).

CONTEMPORARY CHEMISTRY: A PRACTICAL APPROACH

http://www.amazon.co...ctical Approach

It has a book, teacher's guide and lab manual.

I have an opportunity for other coops, all Apologia, too, but I am still planning on The Spectrum since I'm looking for oppotunites to go out less often plus I tend toward Old Earth creation or possibly Creation Evolution. But I'd like to know about this one, too.
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#72 Dicentra

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:19 PM

Weighing Spectrum Chemistry and Zumdahl/Illustrated Guide w/quarks and quirks lesson plans. Anybody know how to get in touch with the wonderful gal who put the latter together? Just need to know where the answers to the chemistry problems are found and if she cut any labs.

Thanks!
Smiles,
Teresa


She's a poster on here - her forum name is mom4peace. :) She seems very nice and can probably help you out.

#73 WishboneDawn

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

Here are some new (to me) options from a UK site, Alison.com. Courses are free unless you want to be free of the ads.

Basic Chemistry
Advanced Chemistry 1
Advanced Chemistry 2

Alison seems to be a reputable site that focuses on providing people with basic workplace skills. This is what they say about the publisher and materials:

Background:[/size] XSIQ Ltd was an Australian interactive multimedia corporation set up to develop leading edge interactive multimedia content for the Australian Secondary/ High School educational market. The company is no longer in business. ALISON purchased all multimedia learning assets in 2009 to make available for free via the ALISON free learning website. Areas Of Expertise: This learning interactive learning material developed by XSIQ Ltd is of exceptional pedagogic quality. The courses are very well written and presented and provide excellent complementary learning material for a wide range of Secondary / High School level education worldwide. The ALISON education team have edited and added to the learning content where appropriate.


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#74 ks-sunflower

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:18 PM

Silberberg wrote an EXCELLENT gen chem text for college level chem 1 & 2 - much much better than Chang. 4th edition available on amazon for $5. Text has website with quizzes, etc. Student solutions manual and study guide available. For a highly motivated, science and math oriented student, perhaps covering chapters 1-6 would be reasonable. If you are going with a college level text, I highly recommend this one.
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#75 Dicentra

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:46 PM

Silberberg wrote an EXCELLENT gen chem text for college level chem 1 & 2 - much much better than Chang. 4th edition available on amazon for $5. Text has website with quizzes, etc. Student solutions manual and study guide available. For a highly motivated, science and math oriented student, perhaps covering chapters 1-6 would be reasonable. If you are going with a college level text, I highly recommend this one.


Do you happen to have the exact name and ISBN number? It's often confusing since once author (or group of authors) put out so many slightly different texts. An ISBN is most helpful in pointing people in the right direction. :)

#76 mom2jjka

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

Just wanted to mention a couple other resources for those looking for a gentle intro to Chemistry.

Pacworks - Integrated Physics and Chemistry
http://pacworks.com/...ac/?page_id=109
You can either do all 12 workbooks for the full course, or you can separate it and do just the chem portion (Chapters 1,3,5,7,8 and 11)


Another option is the Chemistry 101 DVD set from Westfield Studios.
http://www.the101ser...chem/index.html

These two options provide a good basic coverage of the concepts without being overwhelming. (Perfect for students like my 'artsy' daughter.) ;)
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#77 ks-sunflower

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

ISBN-10: 0073101699 Fourth Edition Chemistry:The Molecular Nature of Matterand Change by Martin Silberberg
Also
ISBN-10: 0072828439 Student Study Guide Fourth Edition
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#78 ChristineMM

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:54 AM

My son took chem "on level" and took the SAT chem subject test (grade pending), this year. He used a co-op with a bio-chem major retired medical doctor teacher. He also needed tutoring. More later.

1. A Beka: We hated it, both tutors hated it. They felt that it was too condensed and not enough explanation. If you don't get the concept, tough luck. It is a thin volume. Math gives one example. Teacher felt math was too light and added more of her own design.

(Tutor 1 was used a few times before moving. He hated the book.)

Mainly we used a tutor who is a bio-chemist now works as a college prof teaching bio & chem & also for a while was a bio & chem teacher at a gifted magnet school ranked 11 in the nation. After working in the text 4 months then looking at the SAT subject test content she said no way would anyone be able to get a decent grade as the book was too shallow and also did not even cover all the topics on the test!

2. Other text:

She also slammed the SAT subject test saying that the only books that could address the topic that she knew of was a pre-AP (honors) level book that I do not see on this list. It is Chemistry by Addison Wesley. This happens to be the book that Houston Ind School District uses for Pre-AP Chemistry.

I ended up buying that and then my son dove into it and had a ton of tutoring in the month before the test to review and go deeper and learn new topics.

I am resentful about A Beka Chemistry to say the least.

My son hopes to be an engineer so as a STEM major this class was mandatory and he is trying to stack up the standardized test scores for college pre-requisites.

HTH someone.
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#79 Dicentra

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

Just thought I'd mention...
I updated the Reg Chem post with a new link for Singapore's Chemistry Matters:
http://www.singapore..._p/machemtx.htm
I had originally stated that it was out of print and could possibly be found used but they've since come out with the 2nd edition and it's now available new.
Enjoy! ;)

#80 AngieW in Texas

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:19 PM

The Chemistry subject test is pretty brutal. I had 7 students in my honors chemistry class. We used Tro's Introductory Chemistry as the text and spent the last two weeks on concentrated study specifically for the subject test.

Edited because I felt that I was too specific before:
Of my 7 students, 6 took the test. Three scored 640-680 and three scored 700-750.
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#81 swimmermom3

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:44 PM

The Chemistry subject test is pretty brutal. I had 7 students in my honors chemistry class. We used Tro's Introductory Chemistry as the text and spent the last two weeks on concentrated study specifically for the subject test. One of my A students got a 680. My other 3 A students got 700-750. One of my B students didn't take the test. My other two B students got 640-680.


Angie, thanks so much for posting this. I had wondered how bad it was and the news on College Confidential wasn't encouraging. Your post confirmed the difficulty.

I was hoping to use the subject test to validate our science work this year. We are using the schedule and Chang text on Dr. Tang's website. It's Honors level and we will either be using the videos he makes for his AP course or the ones featured on Education Portal. We are also doing the labs recommended for science majors in the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments.

In looking at your students' scores, wouldn't the scores of all of your A students validate that the class was challenging?
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#82 Corraleno

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

Since Zumdahl seems to be a popular choice for an Honors level chem course, and there are 3 different versions, I thought it might be useful to post the differences. Following is a general TOC for the 5th editions (for which you can buy almost-new copies really cheaply):

 

1. Chemistry: An Introduction

2. Measurements & Calculaitons

3. Matter & Energy

4. Chemical Foundations: Elements, Atoms, Ions

5. Nomenclature

6. Chemical Reactions: An Introduction

7. Reactions in Aqueous Solutions

8. Chemical Composition

9. Chemical Quantities

10. Modern Atomic Theory

11. Chemical Bonding

12. Gases

13. Liquids & Solids

14. Solutions

15. Acids & Bases

[ end of Basic Chemistry ]

16. Equilibrium

17. Oxidation-Reduction Reactions & Electrochemistry

18. Radioactivity & Nuclear Energy

[ end of Introductory Chemistry ]

19. Organic Chemistry

20. Biochemistry

[ end of Introductory Chemistry: A Foundation ]

 

 

You can see the full TOC and page samples for the 5th ed of the Foundations text here.

 

Jackie


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#83 VanClanMomma

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

I'm going crazy over chemistry for my 10th gr son.  I'm now on plan D...because all former plans/arrangements have fallen apart...and we're starting in 6 weeks!  Here are my constraints/criteria:

 

1) Budget tight this year.  I currently own Apologia Exploring Creation with Chem Curriculum

 

2)Son is very bright but doesn't know/think he is.  Not a teachable sort.  Usually balks at "curveballs".  Much talking, powwowing, lecturing & correcting & then he breezes through.  Lather. Rinse. Repeat.  Sigh.

 

3)Using Singapore Math--integrated curriculum.  Has completed Alg 1, Geo A, and some Alg 2a content.

 

4) I have 5 kiddos--he's the oldest, youngest is 4yo.  I have to be very wise with my time--not interested in a curriculum that will require lots of "intervention".

 

5) Chemistry is so far down on his list of things he likes, it is probably in the negative range.

 

6)He will be taking an online World Hist college course--a first for us so that will be a new challenge this year.  Don't want to overwhelm.

 

My ideal that I'm considering:  DIVE with EC Chem and Advanced Chem.

 

Since I often dream bigger than is realistic I'm wondering if it's possible to do the DIVE with just the EC Chem?  I don't think we would really purse the AP option (though maybe) and he is not truly interested in the subject (history or geography and he'd be all over it!).  I like the idea of the DIVE video lectures & labs but not sure if it would work w/out the Advanced Chem text.  Thoughts?  Or other suggestions?



#84 Dicentra

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:16 PM

Adding a new resource originally given by HodgesSchool. :) (I'll also put this in the "Resources" post up thread on the first page):

 

Just ran across these demonstration labs from MIT that are well produced, showy, and also quite seriously academic:
 
 
(And if you haven't seen the Chem Lab Boot Camp that I've mentioned before, you might enjoy it, too.  It is much more narrative than scientific, but I found it both inspiring and reassuring.  http://ocw.mit.edu/h...-lab-boot-camp/ )

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#85 Dicentra

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

I'm going crazy over chemistry for my 10th gr son.  I'm now on plan D...because all former plans/arrangements have fallen apart...and we're starting in 6 weeks!  Here are my constraints/criteria:

 

1) Budget tight this year.  I currently own Apologia Exploring Creation with Chem Curriculum

 

2)Son is very bright but doesn't know/think he is.  Not a teachable sort.  Usually balks at "curveballs".  Much talking, powwowing, lecturing & correcting & then he breezes through.  Lather. Rinse. Repeat.  Sigh.

 

3)Using Singapore Math--integrated curriculum.  Has completed Alg 1, Geo A, and some Alg 2a content.

 

4) I have 5 kiddos--he's the oldest, youngest is 4yo.  I have to be very wise with my time--not interested in a curriculum that will require lots of "intervention".

 

5) Chemistry is so far down on his list of things he likes, it is probably in the negative range.

 

6)He will be taking an online World Hist college course--a first for us so that will be a new challenge this year.  Don't want to overwhelm.

 

My ideal that I'm considering:  DIVE with EC Chem and Advanced Chem.

 

Since I often dream bigger than is realistic I'm wondering if it's possible to do the DIVE with just the EC Chem?  I don't think we would really purse the AP option (though maybe) and he is not truly interested in the subject (history or geography and he'd be all over it!).  I like the idea of the DIVE video lectures & labs but not sure if it would work w/out the Advanced Chem text.  Thoughts?  Or other suggestions?

 

Hi VanClanMomma!

 

I don't have any personal experience with Apologia or the DIVE CDs so hopefully someone else can chime in.

 

Welcome to the Forum!



#86 dovrar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

 

Other High School Chemistry Resources



*A homeschool mom (I believe she might be on this forum!) has done high school honours chem at home and made a website sharing her entire course. She uses Introductory Chemistry (5th ed) by Stephen Zumdahl and the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments by Robert Bruce Thompson. Her site includes a week-by-week schedule with readings, text questions to complete, additional websites to check out for each topic, and the correlation of labs to the text. She gives tests and might even be willing to share them if you e-mail her and ask nicely. Here's the site:
https://sites.google...rnthehousedown/
If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see "Archived Assignments" - click on that and you get the rest of the weeks.
Pretty awesome!
 

 

So I went to https://sites.google...rnthehousedown/ and made note of which labs she used and have listed the names of the labs here in hopes that someone can help me come up with Kitchen Science labs that would illustrate the same ideas.  I do understand that not every lab may be able to be substituted with a cooking counterpart but I figured I'd include the list in it's entirety in case it would be useful to others.  Thanks so much for your help...I hope that this is the right place to post this.

 

1. Differential Solubility

2. Distillation

3. Recrystalization

4. Chromatography

5. Make up a Molar Solution of a Solid Chemical

6. Make up a Molar Solution of a Liquid Chemical

7. Determine Concentration of a Solution by Visual Colorimetry

8. Determine Molar Mass by Boiling Point Elevation

9. Determine Molar Mass by Freezing Point Depression

10. Observe the Effects of Osmotic Pressure

11. Observe a Composition Reaction

12. Observe a Decomposition Reaction

13. Observe a Single Displacement Reaction

14. Stoichiometry of a Double Displacement Reaction

15. Reduction of Copper Ore to Copper Metal

16. Observe the Oxidation States of Manganese

17. Determine the Effect of Concentration on pH

18. Determine the Effect of Temperature on Reaction Rate

19. Determine the Effect of Surface Area on Reaction Rate

20. Determine the Effect of Concentration on Reaction Rate

21. Boyle's Law

22. Charles' Law

23. Gay- Lussac's Law

24. Determine Heat of a Solution

25. Determine the Heat of Fusion of Ice

26. Determine the Specific Heat of a Metal

27. Produce Hydrogen and Oxygen by Electrolysis of Water

28. Determine pH of Aqueous Salt Solution

29. Observe Some Properties of Colloids and Suspensions

30. Produce a Firefighting Foam

31. Prepare a Gelled Sol

32. Build a Voltaic Cell with Two Half Cells



 



#87 Dicentra

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:45 AM

Hi dovrar,

If you don't mind my asking...  Are you looking for kitchen chemistry alternative because of the cost issue or for another reason?  Is your student planning to go on into a STEM field at college?  Or into any of the health care fields?  I would better be able to help you find alternatives if you could provide a little more info. :)

Connie



#88 dovrar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:07 PM

Hi dovrar,

If you don't mind my asking...  Are you looking for kitchen chemistry alternative because of the cost issue or for another reason?  Is your student planning to go on into a STEM field at college?  Or into any of the health care fields?  I would better be able to help you find alternatives if you could provide a little more info. :)

Connie

 

I want to do kitchen chemistry because I feel that my daughter will better connect to chemistry if it is related to something practical like cooking.  She very much enjoys cooking and gets into Good Eats so I thought I'd take advantage of that.

 

No, dd is not planning on going into a STEM field.  Her biggest interest is dance and the only other thing she's talked about doing after graduation other than dance is going to massage school. 

 

Thanks for your help!



#89 Dicentra

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

I believe the text and syllabus you're looking at is for an honours chem course.  Is that what you and your dd are wanting?  If you are wanting to do an honours chem course, I would urge you to do "real" chem labs - I just don't think that honours chem lends itself well to kitchen chem-type labs.  Just my opinion, though - others may disagree. :)

 

I don't know if you've already decided on using Zumdahl with your student but you might want to consider using the Advanced Chemistry course from Mr. Q's Science.  Here's his description:

"This Advanced Chem book will prepare the student to master the basics of high school chemistry.  As a bonus, nearly all of the hands-on labs involve the use of food."

Here's a link:

http://www.eequalsmc...hapterDwnld.htm

His writing style can be goofy and doesn't appeal to everyone but his chemistry is solid and it might be a better fit for a non-science student.  You can download the first chapter for free to see if you and your student like it.  The whole curriculum (student and teacher books) is $50 plus printing costs.  Many people don't print out the text - only the worksheets, labs, and exams.  You'd also have to buy the cooking supplies but at least you'd get food out of it. :)  I don't necessarily recommend this curriculum for a student that will be headed into a STEM career because I think it's important for those students to have experience in actual lab settings and learn lab skills but Mr. Q's course would be perfect for a student who wants a basic high school chem course.

 

Just some thoughts. :)  Many of the labs you listed above would be difficult to replicate with kitchen chemistry-type labs.  The above labs are investigating pretty specific chemistry concepts and involve accurate measuring equipment and substantial calculations.

 

If you're set on this program, I'll think some more and see what I can come up with.  I admit - I'm not very good at thinking outside the box and so others would probably be far better at coming up with alternatives for you but I'll give it my best shot if this is the plan you want to go with. :)



#90 dovrar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:08 PM

Dicentra,

 

  From what I've gathered from the following two posts it seems that I should be able to use the syllabus that's already planned so nice and neatly and just drop the last three chapters (along with any correlating labs) and be on par with a regular chemistry course.  Does that seem to be true?  Just checking to see that I haven't misread something. 

 

  A couple of big reasons for using one of the Zumdahl texts is that I keep hearing wonderful things about it and I can get it used and very inexpensively.   As far as labs, I've found this  The Gourmet Lab since posting here...real lab equipment, real cooking experiments- not just experiments that use food.  I don't know if these would be enough so that's why I'm asking for the help of the hive.  I also thought there might be others who would like to be able to supplement a high school text with cooking experiments.

 

HTH,

Debbie

Another textbook choice for regular chemistry is World of Chemistry by Zumdahl. Very similar to same author's Introductory Chemistry, but broken up into smaller sections as it's designed for high school. We switched to this one midstream after a difficult time with the Prentice Hall Chemistry by Wilbraham et al (same one Kolbe uses). The explanations were SO much clearer in the Zumdahl book.

 

 

Since Zumdahl seems to be a popular choice for an Honors level chem course, and there are 3 different versions, I thought it might be useful to post the differences. Following is a general TOC for the 5th editions (for which you can buy almost-new copies really cheaply):

 

1. Chemistry: An Introduction

2. Measurements & Calculaitons

3. Matter & Energy

4. Chemical Foundations: Elements, Atoms, Ions

5. Nomenclature

6. Chemical Reactions: An Introduction

7. Reactions in Aqueous Solutions

8. Chemical Composition

9. Chemical Quantities

10. Modern Atomic Theory

11. Chemical Bonding

12. Gases

13. Liquids & Solids

14. Solutions

15. Acids & Bases

[ end of Basic Chemistry ]

16. Equilibrium

17. Oxidation-Reduction Reactions & Electrochemistry

18. Radioactivity & Nuclear Energy

[ end of Introductory Chemistry ]

19. Organic Chemistry

20. Biochemistry

[ end of Introductory Chemistry: A Foundation ]

 

 

You can see the full TOC and page samples for the 5th ed of the Foundations text here.

 

Jackie

 


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#91 dovrar

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:27 PM

Okay so it looks like through week 26 corresponds with chapters 1-15.  So that's 10 weeks of wiggle room for rabbit trails :D. No, not really, but that gives us time to read some books on food science and see where the connections are.
 

 



#92 Dicentra

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:59 AM

Yes - chapters 1-15 would be a reg chem course, as far as I can tell. :)  In Weeks 22 and 24 of the schedule, though, she has the students go to other sites to learn about thermochemistry and then work problems. (I can't see where Zumdahl does any thermochem in this text but I don't own the text to look.)  I don't know if one would want to include this in a reg chem course - I suppose it would depend on how math-y the student is. :)

 

The Gourmet Lab book looks interesting.  I couldn't see it all but I think you're definitely on to something there if your dd likes to cook.  As to whether these labs would be enough, I think you'd have to check with your state regulations on what's required to grant a high school science credit.  I noticed on the NSTA site that this book is recommended for students in Grades 6-12 so it might be considered "light" for a high school chem credit but I'm not from the States so I could be way off. :)  If your daughter won't be going on in science or health care and your state doesn't have a problem with non-traditional labs, then you should be good to go.



#93 CountryGirl2

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:34 AM

Ok...so a few questions.

 

My dd is a 10th grader struggling through Algebra 1 (she is doing Saxon and is currently on lesson 45 out of 120 lessons) We start her 10th grade year in a couple of weeks...She made it through Biology fine though.  She's not very mathematical, but much of that could be remedied with more effort and study on her part.

 

Her brother is a freshman this year.  He started Algebra 1 at the tail end of his 8th grade year and is doing well (would do better if he'd stop trying to do the work in his head-we're working on that).  He doesn't honestly have to try that hard in math...

 

I had wanted them to do Chemistry together, but don't know if they are ready this year.  I saw the Zumdahl Introductory Chemistry and didn't know if that would be good for my students where they are now or if we should wait another year.  Our local colleges entrance requirements for science are 1 Biology, 1 Chemistry and 2 Physics courses (any two of these: Integrated Science, Aerospace Science, Anatomy & Physiology, Earth Science, Environmental Science, Physical Science, Physics II, Physics of Technology I, Biology II, Chemistry II, or Physics of Technology II)

 

DS wants to go into science (astronomy) and DD probably not...so I want to tailor what's best for each.

 

What would your recommendations be?



#94 Dicentra

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

I would be wary of doing high school chem before either one has finished Algebra 1 - but that's just me. :)  I would start chem once they've both finished Alg 1 if you want to keep them both together.  If you plan on doing all of the Introductory Chemistry text, they still might have difficulties with chapters 16, 17. and 18 based on what I can see of Correlano's chapter list above.  I would want to do those chapters after an Algebra 2 course.  Chemistry is the most abstract of the high school sciences and the concepts can be sometimes difficult for a student to wrap his/her brain around.  You don't want them to be struggling with the math at the same time.

 

Having said that, I don't own Zumdahl and so I wouldn't want to steer you wrong if I'm way off. :)  Would anyone who owns Zumdahl and has used it for high school chem care to jump in?



#95 Storm Bay

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:00 PM

Ok...so a few questions.

 

My dd is a 10th grader struggling through Algebra 1 (she is doing Saxon and is currently on lesson 45 out of 120 lessons) We start her 10th grade year in a couple of weeks...She made it through Biology fine though.  She's not very mathematical, but much of that could be remedied with more effort and study on her part.

 

Her brother is a freshman this year.  He started Algebra 1 at the tail end of his 8th grade year and is doing well (would do better if he'd stop trying to do the work in his head-we're working on that).  He doesn't honestly have to try that hard in math...

 

I had wanted them to do Chemistry together, but don't know if they are ready this year.  I saw the Zumdahl Introductory Chemistry and didn't know if that would be good for my students where they are now or if we should wait another year.  Our local colleges entrance requirements for science are 1 Biology, 1 Chemistry and 2 Physics courses (any two of these: Integrated Science, Aerospace Science, Anatomy & Physiology, Earth Science, Environmental Science, Physical Science, Physics II, Physics of Technology I, Biology II, Chemistry II, or Physics of Technology II)

 

DS wants to go into science (astronomy) and DD probably not...so I want to tailor what's best for each.

 

What would your recommendations be?

I'm very late, but given the struggles with math for one, I'd personally recommend Conceptual Chemistry. You can do a lab with this to get the lab credit. My eldest did this before switching to public school & they accepted it; she's heading of to university in a few weeks to major in math (math wasn't why we chose this book--it was because it's so important to understand the concepts before adding the math & originally she was going to do AP Chem, but chose to only do AP Calc BC).


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#96 wingedradical

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:35 PM

Just note that some colleges (those in the Arizona system, for example) require the name of your chemistry curriculum, make you fill out an example of a lab report and ask quite a few other questions to decide whether your chemistry homeschool class qualifies you to actually enter college chemistry. Arizona is otherwise homeschool friendly, so I suspect the chemistry department has been burned. So if you want it for credit, I'd be sure what the requirements are at any school your child might consider.

 

 


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#97 wingedradical

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:35 PM

Just note that some colleges (those in the Arizona system, for example) require the name of your chemistry curriculum, make you fill out an example of a lab report and ask quite a few other questions to decide whether your chemistry homeschool class qualifies you to actually enter college chemistry. Arizona is otherwise homeschool friendly, so I suspect the chemistry department has been burned. So if you want it for credit, I'd be sure what the requirements are at any school your child might consider.

 

 


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#98 Sebastian (a lady)

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:54 PM

Just note that some colleges (those in the Arizona system, for example) require the name of your chemistry curriculum, make you fill out an example of a lab report and ask quite a few other questions to decide whether your chemistry homeschool class qualifies you to actually enter college chemistry. Arizona is otherwise homeschool friendly, so I suspect the chemistry department has been burned. So if you want it for credit, I'd be sure what the requirements are at any school your child might consider.

 

I was looking at this requirement a couple weeks back.  I think the requirement applies to any lab science course.  And it looks like this is in response to an Arizona Regents requirement, not something that is ASU specific.   ETA: I may have to revise that last sentence.  University of Arizona doesn't have such a form in evidence, but does require either Arizona Board of Regents courses, or ACT scores (for only one course), or SAT Subject test scores, or college work (doesn't specify if AP scores fulfill this).

 

I'm trying not to be bitter, but the comment that "laboratory sciences must be conducted in real labs" irritates me more than a little.  I am doing my best to provide good lab experiences.  No my kids will not be doing titrations or working with gas Bunsen burners or hydrochloric acid.  But I will expect them to think critically and be careful and deliberate.

 

I think that students learn best with they work with real books, but that hasn't kept any number of schools from using watered down textbooks and closing school libraries.  :banghead:


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#99 katilac

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:24 PM

<snip>
 I'm trying not to be bitter, but the comment that "laboratory sciences must be conducted in real labs" irritates me more than a little.  I am doing my best to provide good lab experiences.  No my kids will not be doing titrations or working with gas Bunsen burners or hydrochloric acid.  But I will expect them to think critically and be careful and deliberate. <snip>


So, does that mean that all public high schools in Arizona have fully equipped 'real' labs?? That's certainly not the case here. Admittedly, 'here' is Louisiana, but I still have a hard time believing that every high school has 'real' labs that are used for every lab science.

My high school labs were done in the classroom, lol. We dissected pigs on our desks. I'm pretty sure that is not OSHA approved.
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#100 Sebastian (a lady)

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:35 AM

So this is what I found about the Arizona Board of Regents admission requirements.  the ABoR does seem to be the state governing board for the public universities.  Their policy manual includes admissions requirements.  Here is the general info for Undergraduate Admission.

 

Without knowing how ASU handles the science course affidavit once it is submitted, it's hard for me to say if this is a way for homeschoolers to demonstrate that they did in fact do a lab science or if it is a way for the school to screen out homeschoolers. 

 

I could see how an admissions office would be less than comfortable with a student who said their chemistry consisted entirely of observing the reaction of baking soda in baked goods when they made dinner.  But I can also see how a student could explain a kitchen chemistry lab in a way that indicated use of experimentation and scientific method. 

 

This is probably another one of those black boxes that I'll won't ever have an answer to.


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