Discussing murder with 3.5yo

[bakpak]

My DD3.5 attends a morning Montessori program run by an Episcopal church. She's very bright and very sensitive to concepts of right/wrong. She comes home from school today and starts telling me about people killing Jesus because they didn't like him. I was horrified to hear this come out of her mouth. She told me it was a 'poor choice' made by the people. I'm sure I'll probably hear this tale many more times this week as she gauges my reaction and puts it in perspective.

 

IMO 3.5 is NOT an appropriate age for discussing people killing other people if you don't have to. Also, it seems the sort of content that she should not be exposed to as a 3.5yo. To clarify, we are not a religious family (although I was raised in a highly conservative religious family). I know SOTW discusses lots of killing, but although I've used some of this book with her, I am not planning to discuss war and murder with her right now. There is PLENTY of time for her to get bogged down with this reality. I asked a friend about it who attends the church and she says she cringes in the children's Sunday school classes a lot because they're so graphic.

 

When we interviewed at this school, the teacher heavily downplayed (lied about quite frankly) the extent of religion that is covered in the classroom. I now know they have a bible story daily, and the crucifixion story came from their 'circle time' reading. I don't know exactly what my DD heard.

 

Is this typical of religious programs? Is it just a function of living in the Bible Belt?

 

What age did you broach murder with your children if you weren't specifically talking about Jesus?

[regentrude]

nm

[corduroy]

Wow, that is pretty intense. I would be upset, too.

 

I think this probably depends really strongly on what kind of kid you have? I'm guessing some people don't have especially sensitive kids, and so the child's response wouldn't trip any warning bells for them, you know? But my little boy is very sensitive to emotion and content, so I think if someone said "This person was killed by other people", it would be way, way too intense for him at this stage. (He's a few months younger than your DD.)

 

How does this make you feel about this preschool? Do you think it's the kind of place where you could have an honest conversation with the leadership about the content of the religious instruction?

[pehp]

My son is 5.5 and we have not discussed it....not even in the context of Jesus (we are Christian).

 

So I would not be ok with introducing the idea to a 3 year old at all!

[JudoMom]

I guess I would expect the death and resurrection of Jesus to be taught at a Christian preschool. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[boscopup]

My kids learned about Jesus dying in the 2year old class at church, but it was very high level ("Jesus died and went to heaven," with focus on going to heaven).

 

In the 3-4 year old class, they give a bit more details, including a bit about how Jesus died and who killed him, but it's not done in a graphic manner. Later, they get more details in an older class.

 

None of this bothers me, but then again, at this moment, my 3.5 year old is watching a Star Wars movie, which has death in it.

[Arboreal TJ]

Murder, death, dying, where food comes from, Jesus, where babies come from...it's all talked about in my house. I feel it's better to have a gentle introduction while they are young than have a significant emotional event when they learn about it later.

[Tanikit]

We have had to discuss it although have dampened it down a lot simply because I live in a country where murders are fairly common and have come into contact with violent crime (we have been victims of violent crime ourselves in the last two years) Basically we told my DD that sometimes people make very bad choices that can hurt other people very badly and sometimes these people can even die.

 

As far as Christianity goes she has known since the preschool classes that Jesus died so that we could go to heaven and be with God. In actual fact it has been hard to explain that death is permanent because she knows Jesus rose from the dead and has known that far longer than trying to tell her death is permanent.

 

As for death itself, she has now seen many birds, lizards and other small creatures die and knows that if she were to dig in the garden she would find their skeletons so she is starting to come to the realisation that death is permanent. She also knows our dog kills the birds sometimes if she catches them and that is probably as close to real "murder" as she has come.

 

I think approaching the topic of murder is unnecessary at age 3.5 unless someone the child knows is murdered or they hear it spoken about and need some explanation, however knowing that Jesus died and why can be covered with very small children without covering gruesome details that are unnecessary.

[Farrar]

I think approaching the topic of murder is unnecessary at age 3.5 unless someone the child knows is murdered or they hear it spoken about and need some explanation, however knowing that Jesus died and why can be covered with very small children without covering gruesome details that are unnecessary.

 

 

But it doesn't sound like there were gruesome details covered?

 

In my experience, some kids don't really understand death, much less murder, at this age. Some kids kind of get it, but don't really think about it much. And some kids seize on these topics, especially when they see how uncomfortable it makes adults. And in the case of a kid like that, you can't shield them from everything because some kids are just naturally curious to know everything, even or especially the things they perceive that the adults don't want to talk about. So blaming the school for her really showing an interest in the murder aspect of this topic seems off base to me.

 

Now, if the lesson was gruesome and detailed, that's different. And this may be one piece in a larger puzzle of things that say this place isn't a great fit for your family.

[bakpak]

Thanks for the thoughts. I've calmed down about it a bit and realized that the teachers probably didn't initially start talking about how Jesus died explicitly, but the extra details were likely inspired by a followup question (how/why did he die?) from an older child. I realize that I myself am especially sensitive to war/murder/death issues, and that's probably why I was so horrified that my daughter's innocence was taken away in so off-hand a manner. We've discussed life and death. At 24 months she told me the whole life cycle of humans pretty much, from in utero to death, with no prompting from me. She expresses great sympathy about family members dying (at 2.5 'I'm sorry your daddy died. That must make you sad. You must really miss him...") She's aware of hunting for food, etc. But generally I haven't addressed issues related to death unless first prompted by her or it was an obvious topic that needed to be discussed.

 

And yes, the school is not the best fit for our family, although it is very good in many ways and there are no other choices where we live. I've been feeling frustrated in general with the school and how much more religion is covered than I was originally told, and I am tired of the bad behavior that she brings home that I have to parent (i'm sure we'd get that anywhere). I really need to talk with the teachers about this, as well as how I feel about letting the children pretend they have guns and are shooting each other in the classroom, in her face repeatedly - this is not okay in my book. And no, we don't let her watch tv much at all, and certainly not any violence.

 

Anyway, thanks again for the different perspectives. I know this is a bit of a contentious topic to raise, so I appreciate your thoughtful comments.

[Plateau Mama]

Not bashing you, but it always surprises me that people send their kids to a Christian school and then are upset about them hearing about the Bible. I hear this from at least one family a year at my sons preschool. Without the death and resurrection of Christ there would be no Bible/Christinty. My 4 yo has been able to tell this story since he could talk.

[bakpak]

Not bashing you, but it always surprises me that people send their kids to a Christian school and then are upset about them hearing about the Bible. I hear this from at least one family a year at my sons preschool. Without the death and resurrection of Christ there would be no Bible/Christinty. My 4 yo has been able to tell this story since he could talk.

 

I didn't say I was upset about her learning bible stories, or that 'Jesus died for our sins'. I was upset about her learning about the concept of people killing people. Two different things, and the level of detail can vary greatly depending on the age of the child IMO.

 

Given that the holiday just passed, I'm curious if folks who teach their children about how Jesus died also feel the need to explain who killed MLK and why at the same young age. Or do you save those concepts for later?

[Plateau Mama]

I didn't say I was upset about her learning bible stories, or that 'Jesus died for our sins'. I was upset about her learning about the concept of people killing people. Two different things, and the level of detail can vary greatly depending on the age of the child IMO.

 

Given that the holiday just passed, I'm curious if folks who teach their children about how Jesus died also feel the need to explain who killed MLK and why at the same young age. Or do you save those concepts for later?

 

You did accuse the teacher of lying about the amount of Bible. My point was, if you are worried about the amount of Bible in a Christian school, then you shouldn't send them to a Christian school. That's all.

When we interviewed at this school, the teacher heavily downplayed (lied about quite frankly) the extent of religion that is covered in the classroom. I now know they have a bible story daily, and the crucifixion story came from their 'circle time' reading. I don't know exactly what my DD heard.

 

Is this typical of religious programs? Is it just a function of living in the Bible Belt?

 

What age did you broach murder with your children if you weren't specifically talking about Jesus?

 

We haven't studied MLK. We don't observe the holiday in our homeschool. If for some reason the topic of MLK's death came up (Lincoln, or JFK or anyone else), then yes I would tell my 4 yo that people didn't like what MLK (or whomever) was doing/saying and that a bad guy killed him and that was wrong. If he asked me what murder was I'd tell him the same thing. There are very few things that I wouldn't discuss. I will admit when my other two were younger I did censor things a bit more, but with a 10 and 12 in the house it's easier just to explain it like it is. If I don't my 10 yo will and I guarantee it won't be age appropriate. ;-)

 

Now the truth is none of us were in the classroom when the story was told. So we don’t know if it was a simple Jesus died on the Cross story. Then a boy raised his hand and asks what crucifixion means and another boy answers “He was MURDEREDâ€. Or if the teacher said Jesus was MURDERED on the cross. (I’m putting money on the first.)

[shawthorne44]

...Given that the holiday just passed, I'm curious if folks who teach their children about how Jesus died also feel the need to explain who killed MLK and why at the same young age. Or do you save those concepts for later?

 

MLK hasn't come up, but I would. For a general murder the explanation would be short. Maybe something like "Some people are mean and evil and they are willing to harm or kill other people if it benefits them."

 

Just as I wanted her to know that parking lots and streets are dangerous from when she started walking. I want her to know that some other people are dangerous.