I just read an article that the shooter was homeschooled...

[Mommy22alyns]

 

We've got a kid living on our street, same age as one of my boys (tween), who has been kicked out of four local schools that I know of. (three private and one public) He is now "homeschooling" through a virtual school, with his working mom supervising, I guess. There's homeschooling, and then there's "homeschooling."

 

 

 

Yes, and we understand this. But does everyone else?

[Crimson Wife]

Well homeschooling isn't the only out of hand comments that have come out of this tadgey. It seems everyone has a way to express anger they feel towards these and seems to offend someone. If it isn't homeschooling, it's gun control, if not those then what about mental health issues, or Autism, or maybe let's place the blame on the school system for not allowing God in school, or lack of security. Etc... we could go on and on and on.

 

 

Seriously! I got an email from an organization I normally like placing the blame for the tragedy on abortion and teaching evolution :confused1: I'm pro-Life and think that both sides of the origins controversy ought to be taught, but shame on the organization for exploiting a tragedy to push an unrelated political agenda :thumbdown:

[Word Nerd]

 

 

Yes, and we understand this. But does everyone else?

 

 

Some may latch onto any opportunity to criticize homeschooling, but I don't think the majority of people would reach the conclusion that his possible homeschooling had anything to do with what happened. The idea is absurd, and yes, I believe most people understand that—even those who are not homeschooling supporters.

[unsinkable]

Well, my thought is who cares. If he had been in public school, would anyone blame that? It wouldn't raise an eyebrow unless someone could find an exact thing that went wrong at school (like an abusive teacher, etc.).

 

 

I think *everything* matters when trying to piece together what happened.

 

It sounds like he was in a few different learning environments --- homeschooled, public-schooled, and Catholic school.

 

I think it all matters in a rational discussion of the situation.

[DawnM]

Does anyone know WHY Ryan (the brother) was close to the school and was found in the woods after the shooting? I have never heard what the deal was on that.

[jenL]

 

 

And yes, I am worried that people will use this to further stigmatize not only homeschoolers but kids on the spectrum.

:iagree: This was my first thought... so sad and frightening that this could/may/will occur.

[Denisemomof4]

Does anyone know WHY Ryan (the brother) was close to the school and was found in the woods after the shooting? I have never heard what the deal was on that.

He wasn't. It was reported that he was but that was erroneous reporting.

 

He was at work at the time of the shootings. This is a fact. He was taken i to police custody, cleared and released. I believe his brother had some identification with his name on it.

[TravelingChris]

As far as I know, Jared Loughner was never homeschooled not Eric Harris nor Dylan Kleibold nor the Korean American guy at Virginia Tech. The commonality is that they were males.

 

When I did a master's thesis on what are the best predictors of criminal behavior with people who have erotomania delusions, they were the usual predictors- young and male. All the people had the delusions but who acted on them in criminal ways, and especially the more violent criminal ways, were young males, same as who the typical violent criminals are.\

 

I have no idea what Adam's ture disgnosis were. As has been mentioned a lot, Asperger's sometimes turns out to be the early manifestations of schizophrenia. The paranoid form of schizophrenia is the most dangerous type of mental illness.

 

I feel horrendouly bad for that mother of that violent kid. I recall hearing from a woman who wrote a book about having a schizophrenic mother and how she had to hide and change her name. Even when her mother stabbed her in the neck, she still couldn;t get her institutionalized or get guardianship.

[annandatje]

I haven't seen a thread that says that parents are not to blame for anything. I'm not saying they don't exist - just that I haven't seen them.

 

I read that blog Cin linked. Heartbreaking and another reason why there needs to be a dialogue on mental health reform. My brother was hospitalized many times in the 70's and early 80's. The pendulum has swung way in the other direction. We need a middle ground - desperately. I want a better system for individualizing services based on that particular person's needs. Some people need hospitalization, some need it temporarily, some don't need it at all. But options are needed, badly.

 

Pdalley, my children and I had a discussion recently about the impact of changes in social policy for dealing with severe mental illness, particularly those cases where people live in fear of their mentally ill loved one. Do you believe that we should reopen more of the closed state mental hospitals and relax the standards for involuntary commitment? All of us were leaning in that direction but our concern was whether the horrific abuses of past would crop up again and how to make certain that the hospitals were truly treatment centers, not human warehouses. I wonder how these cases are dealt with in the universal healthcare systems of westernized countries.

 

ETA: Sorry, did not intend hijack. Should have started new thread.

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

Pdalley, my children and I had a discussion recently about the impact of changes in social policy for dealing with severe mental illness, particularly those cases where people live in fear of their mentally ill loved one. Do you believe that we should reopen more of the closed state mental hospitals and relax the standards for involuntary commitment? All of us were leaning in that direction but our concern was whether the horrific abuses of past would crop up again and how to make certain that the hospitals were truly treatment centers, not human warehouses. I wonder how these cases are dealt with in the universal healthcare systems of westernized countries.

 

I think there needs to be better, more accurate ways of diagnosing AND better, more accurate ways to treat first. To open the hospitals to treat more people in the same fashion is NOT the answer IMO. While there are very good treatment centers around, there are also too many that aren't good enough.

 

It is very difficult with mental illness.

[VinNY]

I am not concerned about what people think because he homeschooled but I understand where others are coming from. I had to hear all about it during the Andrea Yates tragedy.

[pdalley]

I know that there were reports he had some form of autism. This article makes it sound like something much more...to not feel physical pain is more extreme than that. There is real need for reform and options for parents.

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_2308641.html

 

 

 

That is a hallmark of SPD - sensory processing disorder - in some cases. My oldest is hyposensitive. He does feel pain but he isn't that good at communicating physical pain. We usually only know if he has a fever or his behavior goes bad very quickly. I've heard other adult autistics that also have high pain tolerances like my oldest. My middle tends to by hypersensitive - every little twinge bothers him immensely.

 

I think that's probably part of the larger picture, sure.

[hsmom2011]

n/m

[QueenCat]

I know that there were reports he had some form of autism. This article makes it sound like something much more...to not feel physical pain is more extreme than that. There is real need for reform and options for parents.

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_2308641.html

 

I've heard that too. Scares me that people will associate this tragedy with autism. I know many people, my child included, with autism.

Very few have violent tendencies. It is not a part of the autism diagnosis, but often a second diagnosis someone has in addition to the autism, that causes the physical tendencies.

[pdalley]

Pdalley, my children and I had a discussion recently about the impact of changes in social policy for dealing with severe mental illness, particularly those cases where people live in fear of their mentally ill loved one. Do you believe that we should reopen more of the closed state mental hospitals and relax the standards for involuntary commitment? All of us were leaning in that direction but our concern was whether the horrific abuses of past would crop up again and how to make certain that the hospitals were truly treatment centers, not human warehouses. I wonder how these cases are dealt with in the universal healthcare systems of westernized countries.

 

ETA: Sorry, did not intend hijack. Should have started new thread.

 

There should be more options. A one sized fits all solution is not going to work. There needs to be a combination of things happening - every person is different and needs a different level of care. That's what I really think needs to happen before a lot of progress is made in mental health treatment. I do not agree that we should go back to what we had before. I do not think my brother should have been hospitalized - at all. But I do recognize some people need an intense level of care - maybe just to stabilize them - maybe for longer. Options and supports are what I'd like to see tailored on a case by case basis. For years NC gave any person who qualified for a CAP (medicaid waiver) and unlimited amount of hours. Not everbody needs that level of care. The money ran out and there are waiting lists that are so very long and kids getting nothing. They appear to now be moving to the case by case model and I think in the long run it will be better all the way around - financially and when it comes to outcomes in the long term.

 

Or pretty much what Denise said.

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

:scared::svengo: I am the first one to support a mom who needs help with their mentally ill child, but I still am having a hard time with the fact that she ever allowed her unstable son to touch a gun. And to buy him an assault rifle?! I just don't understand at all.

 

It is being said that CT has the strictest gun control laws in the nation. It did no good.

[VinNY]

:scared: :svengo: I am the first one to support a mom who needs help with their mentally ill child, but I still am having a hard time with the fact that she ever allowed her unstable son to touch a gun. And to buy him an assault rifle?! I just don't understand at all.

 

It is being said that CT has the strictest gun control laws in the nation. It did no good.

 

 

 

http://nymag.com/dai...-collector.html

[unsinkable]

 

I don't disagree, but I think some people will blame homeschooling in the sense all homeschooling is bad. Some people would just love to prove that. And I just don't think so.

 

 

 

And there have also been cases where a child is pulled from school for very, very bad reasons.

 

And does that mean ALL people who pull their children from school are doing it for very, very bad reason? Nope, of course not.

 

But I'm not going to pretend it doesn't happen.

[unsinkable]

 

Yeah, but with a kid who has issues, you can't always know what is the right thing to do (not that I think you disagree with me on that).

 

I guess people love to find a reason and someone to blame, but I think that sometimes it's next to impossible.

 

 

I doubt like hell we'll find *someone* to blame.

 

I have a feeling that the reasons this happened will be like some kind of reverse evil synchonicity...like everything that could have gone wrong, went wrong, like an horrific maze of choices that never, ever should have worked.

[treestarfae]

He was homeschooled years ago, not recently.

 

He was a 20 year old man living with his mother at home. Neither of them worked. They lived off alimony money. So far I don't think he was a college student. Why the Dad and brother became estranged is a good question.

[mommymilkies]

I've been trying to take a drama break, but I had to hop on here to complain as soon as I read that he was homeschooled. All I have to say is crap. Now they're going to all assume we're unsocialized sociopaths raising murderers. You know the media is not going let this go.

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

There should be more options. A one sized fits all solution is not going to work. There needs to be a combination of things happening - every person is different and needs a different level of care. That's what I really think needs to happen before a lot of progress is made in mental health treatment. I do not agree that we should go back to what we had before. I do not think my brother should have been hospitalized - at all. But I do recognize some people need an intense level of care - maybe just to stabilize them - maybe for longer. Options and supports are what I'd like to see tailored on a case by case basis. For years NC gave any person who qualified for a CAP (medicaid waiver) and unlimited amount of hours. Not everbody needs that level of care. The money ran out and there are waiting lists that are so very long and kids getting nothing. They appear to now be moving to the case by case model and I think in the long run it will be better all the way around - financially and when it comes to outcomes in the long term.

 

Or pretty much what Denise said.

 

Not everyone needs hospitalization, true, but all too often there are way more sick people than there are beds available to treat. My friend's adult son was rushed to the ER and held for four days only to be released due to lack of beds at the state hospital. He was again rushed back to the ER within a week and held until a bed became available. Had it been several days again, he probably would have just been released again.

 

With adults, their treatment has to be voluntary. This is a huge problem and one of the reasons why there are so many sick people out there not being treated. Often. Times they refuse treatment or don't think they need it.

 

Then there is the issue of staying on meds. Getting hospitalized and receiving treatment is only the BEGINNING. Once released, how many STAY on meds? The patterns I have seen with my brother, with friends with mentally ill adult children, etc. Is that they do NOT stay on their meds. They either forget or just don't like they way they feel (side affects from meds) so they stop taking them. Or they don't believe they are sick so they stop taking them. Or they can't afford them so they stop taking them. or, or, or. The cycle repeats itself when the next crisis happens, which is usually legal or mental, and then the cycle repeats.

 

Then there is the fact that there will normally be several different diagnoses. The more doctors you see, the more diagnoses you will get. Unless properly diagnosed, treatment will not be effective.

 

 

There are so many issues to tackle with mental illness. I wish we could just scan the brain or take a blood test to know which illness one has so it can be properly treatment.

 

Autism and Aspergers aren't mental illness and while this man may have been on the spectrum, it is likely he had something else going on, too, or like Chris said, he progressed to paranoid schizophrenia.v

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

I doubt like hell we'll find *someone* to blame.

 

I have a feeling that the reasons this happened will be like some kind of reverse evil synchonicity...like everything that could have gone wrong, went wrong, like an horrific maze of choices that never, ever should have worked.

 

I agree. I think many people made mistakes and failed him.

 

Like a pp, I also would like to know why the father and brother were estranged.

[VinNY]

I agree. I think many people made mistakes and failed him.

 

Like a pp, I also would like to know why the father and brother were estranged.

me,too

[astrid]

Post removed at the request of VinNY.

 

 

astrid

[VinNY]

It was Cheshire, Connecticut.

 

astrid (in Connecticut)

 

 

Yes correct. Doctors was in Cheshire and there was one in Sharon recently ,too.

[delaney]

:scared: :svengo: I am the first one to support a mom who needs help with their mentally ill child, but I still am having a hard time with the fact that she ever allowed her unstable son to touch a gun. And to buy him an assault rifle?! I just don't understand at all.

 

It is being said that CT has the strictest gun control laws in the nation. It did no good.

 

Strict as compared to.??.....not other countries with firm controls, that's for sure.

[DawnM]

WHAT????? I thought the news reported that they found him in the woods and handcuffed him and as he walked by parents AT THE SCHOOL, he kept telling them, "I didn't do it."

 

I am getting madder and madder at the reporting issues......they didn't even say, "This is uncomfirmed" they just reported all their erroneous information as FACT.

 

He wasn't. It was reported that he was but that was erroneous reporting.

 

He was at work at the time of the shootings. This is a fact. He was taken i to police custody, cleared and released. I believe his brother had some identification with his name on it.

 

[astrid]

removed at the request of quoted poster

 

astrid

[astrid]

 

 

Yes correct. Doctors was in Cheshire and there was one in Sharon recently ,too.

 

 

The Sharon home invasion was a targeted incident-- drug violence. There is no indication that anyone else was ever at risk. It was not a random killing as the Petit murders were (Cheshire doctor and family.)

 

astrid

[pdalley]

I am sure you mean well, but the Connecticut State Police emphasized at their last press conference (4:00 pm or so) that they have a special task force convened to search out, investigate and prosecute any and all individuals who are divulging information through sources other than official State Police or FBI.

 

astrid

 

 

I have been hugely impressed by the Connecticut State Police - particularly Lt. Vance. This just ups my appreciation of them.

[butterflymommy]

 

We don't know details. Yet you're ready to assume there was a mistress?

 

Yes-- why else would he pay more alimony than the court required? The goodness of his heart?

[Arcadia]

Then there is the issue of staying on meds. Getting hospitalized and receiving treatment is only the BEGINNING. Once released, how many STAY on meds?

 

 

That is so true. I have two bipolar friends who have their mums and aunts to make sure they take their medications. They get suicidal when they miss their meds. They were impatient but there are more people than facilities so putting them with family was the best possible situation.

[QuirkyKidAcademy]

Cin, that is the horrific reality of too many people. Parents are desperate for help, taking extreme measures of locked doors, alarms, locked up knives, etc. To keep their family safe.

 

That 13 year old boy will grow older. My friend had a 15 passenger van and that mentally ill kid grew into a HUGE, mentally ill older teen. As she drove that van to the police station in fear for her life (and she had to HIDE that fear because he would have enjoyed it and only taunt her more) he rocked that van so violently she is shocked it didn't roll over. He didn't realize she was driving to the police station. When she arrived, he punched his fist through the windshield as she ran inside for protection.

 

This adopted kid (yes, that matters because we don't know his full genetic make up and don'tt know the mental illnesses he's prone to) is now 21. It is hard to get a job since he never got a diploma from that pubblic baby sitting service, called alternative publlic school, offered for these troubled kids. My friend and her dh fear the only answer will be to leave all her other adult children behind and move to another state to protect their lives. Their son is an adult now with no job, no high school diploma, several diagnosis, years and years of therapy behind him. He has nowhere to go but home. His parents fear the wrath on them that would come if they left him homeless. They are TRAPPED and there IS NO HELP.

 

The monster who killed all those in CT was also an adult who lived at home, and I assume that mom felt she also had no other options. I do know I shouldn't assume.

 

A college friend's parents were murdered by their unbalanced son. My friend and her family hid their whereabouts for years after he was released from prison because, ya know, he's unbalanced and isn't responsible for his actions. I've recently seen her on FB, so I don't know if the situation has resolved or if she just got tired of hiding. It is sad and scary and a terrible reality for many families.

[Arcadia]

Yes-- why else would he pay more alimony than the court required? The goodness of his heart?

 

For not needing to take care of the shooter? After all the dad is alive while the mum is killed.

[yinne]

I just heard on the evening news that at age 16 he was taking college courses at a local college. If she did pull him out to homeschool, it sounds like he may have been enrolled elsewhere. This is, of course, assuming you can believe anything that is coming from the media!

 

Yvonne

[unsinkable]

I am sure you mean well, but the Connecticut State Police emphasized at their last press conference (4:00 pm or so) that they have a special task force convened to search out, investigate and prosecute any and all individuals who are divulging information through sources other than official State Police or FBI.

 

astrid

 

Is this for anyone at all or just for anyone associated with the investigation?

 

IOW, neighbors can't give interviews about their impression of the family? Or family members (such as the aunt who has been quoted) can't tell about her nephew?

[Denisemomof4]

 

Strict as compared to.??.....not other countries with firm controls, that's for sure.

 

I really don't know. Yesterday qnd this morning I watched all the major news shows; CNN, HLN, MSNBC, FOX, for an update. It was mentioned that CT had some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

[unsinkable]

I found this:

 

NEWTOWN — Social media use continues to play a central and controversial role in the case of the school massacre, but has now resulted in a fierce warning from authorities.

 

State and federal authorities are targeting those posting misleading statements related to the school slayings on social media sites, saying they could face arrest. State Lt. J. Paul Vance at a late Sunday morning press conference added that there is no new investigation-related information to release and gave a general update on the case, saying a motive won’t be revealed until the probe’s completion.

 

Vance heavily emphasized the amount of misinformation circulating and consequences for those who are caught posing as someone involved in the tragedy.

 

“There has been misinformation coming from people posing as the shooter in this case, posing using other identities, mimicking this crime scene…. There’s been some things in somewhat of a threatening manner,†Vance said. “It is important to note that we have discussed with federal authorities these issues are crimes.â€

 

The Internet postings are being investigated by state and federal authorities and could lead to prosecution when suspects are identified, Vance said, calling it the “newest twist†in an already harrowing series of events. He did not give specifics or what crime suspects could be charged with.

 

“All information relative to this case is coming from these microphones, and any information coming from other sources cannot be confirmed and is found in many cases to be inaccurate,†Vance added.

 

on New Haven register

 

Bolding by me

[Violet Crown]

Vance said. “It is important to note that we have discussed with federal authorities these issues are crimes.â€

 

... and then the federal authorities pointed them at a copy of the First Amendment, shrugged their shoulders, and said "unless you can show fraud or interference in a criminal investigation, good luck going after internet speculation."

[Parrothead]

I found this:

 

NEWTOWN — Social media use continues to play a central and controversial role in the case of the school massacre, but has now resulted in a fierce warning from authorities.

 

State and federal authorities are targeting those posting misleading statements related to the school slayings on social media sites, saying they could face arrest. State Lt. J. Paul Vance at a late Sunday morning press conference added that there is no new investigation-related information to release and gave a general update on the case, saying a motive won’t be revealed until the probe’s completion.

 

Vance heavily emphasized the amount of misinformation circulating and consequences for those who are caught posing as someone involved in the tragedy.

 

“There has been misinformation coming from people posing as the shooter in this case, posing using other identities, mimicking this crime scene…. There’s been some things in somewhat of a threatening manner,†Vance said. “It is important to note that we have discussed with federal authorities these issues are crimes.â€

 

The Internet postings are being investigated by state and federal authorities and could lead to prosecution when suspects are identified, Vance said, calling it the “newest twist†in an already harrowing series of events. He did not give specifics or what crime suspects could be charged with.

 

“All information relative to this case is coming from these microphones, and any information coming from other sources cannot be confirmed and is found in many cases to be inaccurate,†Vance added.

 

on New Haven register

 

Bolding by me

 

So should our two threads come down since they probably contain bits of misinformation as it was passed along early Friday?

[Denisemomof4]

 

So should our two threads come down since they probably contain bits of misinformation as it was passed along early Friday?

The amount of misinformation about this tragedy should be criminal, IMO, and never should have been aired on national television. I have never seen such reckless reporting before. THis has GOT to change. Like a po said here or in another thread, report on the FACTS and then SHUT UP.

[VinNY]

Denise, could you delete my quotes on your posts#27 and #69. Thank you. Tried PMing you.

[Crimson Wife]

 

Yes-- why else would he pay more alimony than the court required? The goodness of his heart?

 

Maybe because he was aware his ex was raising a special needs child? I wouldn't assume that he felt guilty over an adulterous affair just because he was financially generous with the ex-wife. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

[Denisemomof4]

Oh, I am sorry! I did not notice a PM. Off to delete.

[Farrar]

http://nymag.com/dai...-collector.html

 

I feel like I don't understand this family at all yet. From that article:

 

Still, most people seem to remember her as a "nice," "warm," "generous," and "very pleasant" woman "who enjoyed craft beers, jazz and landscaping" and seemed to spend a lot of time caring for Adam, who was clearly troubled. It does not seem that she had a job, and it appears that she lived on the nearly $325,000-a-year she received from her ex-husband, GE executive Peter Lanza, from whom she divorced in 2008. "Nancy was a good mother, kind-hearted," said her former sister-in-law. "She wasn’t one to deny reality. She would have sought psychiatric help for her son had she felt he needed it."

 

So, she spent all her time caring for her adult child, but she didn't think he needed psychiatric help and that was somehow not denying reality? The news reports all feel like garbled nonsense to me at this point.

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

I feel like I don't understand this family at all yet. From that article:

 

 

 

So, she spent all her time caring for her adult child, but she didn't think he needed psychiatric help and that was somehow not denying reality? The news reports all feel like garbled nonsense to me at this point.

 

And yet other sources state he had angry outbursts, she feared she was losing him, she tried to get help, etc.

 

Basically, there is all sorts of misinformation out there. We just don't know how sick he was. Most of what I read and heard spoke of Nancy in a very positive manner.

[DarlaS]

She might have been trying to channel his fascination with guns into a sport. One of my brothers as a teen was obsessed with the computer game Doom. My parents got him into riflery as a sport and he got so good at it that he worked as a camp counselor teaching riflery. They thought maybe he'd join the military or become a cop, but he decided to pursue a career in an unrelated field. I'll have to ask him if he ever still goes down to the range, but he's in his 30's now and has never had any brush with the law more serious than a traffic violation.

 

ETA: It was obviously NOT the correct decision in the Lanza case, but I can see where she might have been hoping it would be helpful.

 

 

:iagree:

 

It can also be surprisingly soothing and relaxing. No way it would ever have occurred to anyone he would have done something like this--and it almost certainly was not the cause. No one goes on a killing spree because they have good aim.

[pdalley]

This is exactly what I'm worried about. http://www.autistichoya.com/2012/12/can-i-hide-somewhere-until-its-over.html

[pdalley]

 

I feel like I don't understand this family at all yet. From that article:

 

 

 

So, she spent all her time caring for her adult child, but she didn't think he needed psychiatric help and that was somehow not denying reality? The news reports all feel like garbled nonsense to me at this point.

 

 

 

60 minutes interviewed two friends of hers who said he was on psychiatric medication. So she did get him some psychiatric help. They spoke of her as a devoted mother.