Would you attend a church if you don't believe...

[NotSoObvious]

We currently attend a Unitarian Universalist church. It's fine. As far as teachings go, it's spot on for us. We are liberal when it comes to social issues and we love the RE (Sunday school) program because our kids learn awesome lessons without it being tied to a religion we don't agree with.

 

However, after a year and a half, we are just not connecting with the congregation (except for a mother's group I adore). We also don't enjoy the minister or the service. We pretty much spend the service looking at each other like, "this is weird." We get nothing out of it. We loved our old UU church in other state. We had an awesome minister, uplifting and challenging sermons, and a great RE program.

 

We believe in God and we believe that all religions have good and truth. We believe religion is man made and serves people- for faith, hope, community, whatever they seek. We don't believe people need religion. We don't believe there is one true path to whatever you want to call it- heaven, enlightenment, etc. one of my dds would be open to learning about the Bible and would probably latch on to whatever makes her feel accepted and happy. My other dd has said we don't believe in Jesus because "it's not true," although she thinks it makes for a great Chritmas story.

 

Now, we have friends who are planting a church closer to where we live. It's a branch of a larger, very popular Presbyterian Church (PCA) in town. I've listened to some sermons online and I really like them. We know several homeschool families from this church and they are amazing people. When we found out they all went to the same church, we laughed about how that must be where we belong! Then we found out they'll all be moving to the new church. So great families, great sermons, people we have things on common with, families we connect with, etc.

 

BUT, we aren't Christian. ;) We would also likely be the most liberal family, which I'm ok with as long as my girls aren't being told that gay people are going to hell.

 

What would you do? Keep going somewhere that feels lifeless, but safe? Or try something outside of your comfort zone because it will possibly give your family a better network and more room for spiritual growth, and give your kids an amazing youth group? (It's important to me that my kids grow up in a church. It just is.)

 

Thanks for reading if you made it this far! We are really wrestling with this decision. I also worry about giving my kids religious identity issues. ;)

 

Excuse any errors as I am on the iPad.

 

[LibraryLover]

Maybe. :)

[catz]

That's hard. I'd probably give the new church a try. We are also UU and feel very much the same as you. Our current UU is GREAT community wise and there are many families there that are very dear to us. Our UU has 2 ministers - one is great, the other is kind of meh to me, but that's fine. It's totally fine in a UU not to align yourself with the ministers. I would have a hard time going if we weren't connecting with the others there though.

 

It might be a deal breaker for me if the new church was extremely vocal about the gay marriage issue.

 

And ROFL LL, I know many similar reformed Jews and Catholics. There was a huge movement of Catholics here supporting our same sex marriage amendment. They even had special yard signs.

[catz]

duplicate - again.

[NotSoObvious]

That's hard. I'd probably give the new church a try. We are also UU and feel very much the same as you. Our current UU is GREAT community wise and there are many families there that are very dear to us. Our UU has 2 ministers - one is great, the other is kind of meh to me, but that's fine. It's totally fine in a UU not to align yourself with the ministers. I would have a hard time going if we weren't connecting with the others there though.

It might be a deal breaker for me if the new church was extremely vocal about the gay marriage issue.

And ROFL LL, I know many similar reformed Jews and Catholics. There was a huge movement of Catholics here supporting our same sex marriage amendment. They even had special yard signs.

 

As far as I can tell, they stay pretty moderate about things. In fact, I listened to the sermon given the week after the election and was surprised to hear him talk about the congregation having people on both sides. There were no assumptions made.

[momofkhm]

I wouldn't stay somewhere that was lifeless. If you are thinking "this is weird" chances are your kids are getting the same thing. But I don't know if the PCA is the place for you. I know that the Westminster Catechism is a Presbyterian thing, and I know there are at last 2 branches of the Presbyterian church, but I don't know if PCA aligns with the catechism. I would say try the new church and see how you feel.

[momofkhm]

double post

[Amira]

There are a few I wouldn't attend (for example, I wouldn't want to go to my own church if I didn't believe), but in general, I think that a church that can provide a better community for your entire family is worth it if that's important to you. We haven't gone as far as joining a different church when our current church hasn't been able to meet our needs when we've lived overseas, but we've certainly participated with other churches/religions when ours hasn't been able to provide a community for us.

 

I hope you can work something out that's good for your family.

[NotSoObvious]

I wouldn't stay somewhere that was lifeless. If you are thinking "this is weird" chances are your kids are getting the same thing. But I don't know if the PCA is the place for you. I know that the Westminster Catechism is a Presbyterian thing, and I know there are at last 2 branches of the Presbyterian church, but I don't know if PCA aligns with the catechism. I would say try the new church and see how you feel.

 

All I know is that the PCA is the more conservative branch and more liturgical. If I was just researching churches, it's not one I would choose because it seems super conservative, but it's the families and people we've met that are the draw. We've been to a few events.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I really don't know about that particular church, but I don't get the impression they are fundies that push against gays and such. That said, it would be really hard for me to go where I don't agree with the statement of faith, but the reasons you state for trying it out are all good ones. You must realize, going in, that once your children bond and form relationships and start enjoying the environment, it'll be much harder to pull them out if the teachings start going in a direction you're not comfortable with.

[NotSoObvious]

You must realize, going in, that once your children bond and form relationships and start enjoying the environment, it'll be much harder to pull them out if the teachings start going in a direction you're not comfortable with.

 

Exactly. I think this is why we are struggling so much. We've been talking about this for months, but haven't attended yet. My girls already have several friends at the new church, so I don't want to take them unless we are really going to give it a go. After a year and a half at the UU church, they haven't connected with anyone.

[shinyhappypeople]

OP - If I were you, I'd visit the new church. I mean, what do you have to lose? You can always return to your current church if things don't work out.

 

I attend a moderately conservative evangelical church, because my kids - especially my youngest - love going to church and we have lots of friends already attending there. I *am* a Christian, but I also support legalizing gay marriage and believe in a form of universal salvation. It has never, ever been an issue, because I choose to keep my mouth shut and not make it an issue. There are enough aspects about this church and community that I genuinely appreciate that make it worth it for me to tolerate different points of view.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Relationships are so important and need to be nurtured. It's interesting that they have already become close friends with kids of differeing beliefs, which says something about their character :) Hoping you reach a decision soon that fills you all with peace!

[BrookValley.]

Personally, my beliefs seem very similar to yours, and I don't think I could join a Christian church. UU is about as much as I can handle (I prefer to attend a liberal Quaker meeting). It sounds like you are drawn to the community involved in the new PCA, which sounds great--I don't blame you--but for me the deal breaker would be, well, that it wasn't really in line with my faith. At all. Is there any way to build some community and friendship with these other families separate from the church? A formal or informal homeschool group?

[Georgiana Daniels]

Whoops, double post.

[Matryoshka]

Are these your only two options? I know way back when we were "church-shopping" we attended the UU church in the next town and I felt like that about the sermon. But our church has really fed me (it's UU/UCC). UU churches can really vary very, very widely from one congregation to the next. Or is there another denomination nearby that doesn't have a creed to follow (UCC is Christian, but it does not have a creed.).

[NotSoObvious]

Personally, my beliefs seem very similar to yours, and I don't think I could join a Christian church. UU is about as much as I can handle (I prefer to attend a liberal Quaker meeting). It sounds like you are drawn to the community involved in the new PCA, which sounds great--I don't blame you--but for me the deal breaker would be, well, that it wasn't really in line with my faith. At all. Is there any way to build some community and friendship with these other families separate from the church? A formal or informal homeschool group?

 

See, this is exactly what we keep coming back to. My husband says he'd just rather not go to church at all. He hates the UU church. But, he has expressed interest in the new church because he likes the people and knows that church is important to me. If he's going to sit through church, he'd rather be with people he likes. :)

I worry long term for my kids though. Maybe it would just be too hard attending church in place where we are always saying to our kids, "yeah, but..." And adding in our own beliefs. I think that's asking too much from them. Then what if we move again and the new UU church is awesome? What then? ...

We do know these families from our summer playgroup, so that is where they've formed friendships. We are also toying with going to the Christian co-op since it's one of the only ways for my kids to see the same kids on a regular basis.

[catz]

Are these your only two options? I know way back when we were "church-shopping" we attended the UU church in the next town and I felt like that about the sermon. But our church has really fed me (it's UU/UCC). UU churches can really vary very, very widely from one congregation to the next. Or is there another denomination nearby that doesn't have a creed to follow (UCC is Christian, but it does not have a creed.).

 

I'm curious about this too. I might take a few months to try a few different things and not get my kids too excited about the new church until it seemed like a sure thing. A UCC could be a really good fit too. Some ECLA Lutheran communities too. And I do agree UU churches can vary widely. Ours is very large and much more "traditional" than many.

[NotSoObvious]

Are these your only two options? I know way back when we were "church-shopping" we attended the UU church in the next town and I felt like that about the sermon. But our church has really fed me (it's UU/UCC). UU churches can really vary very, very widely from one congregation to the next. Or is there another denomination nearby that doesn't have a creed to follow (UCC is Christian, but it does not have a creed.).

 

No, but I think of we weren't feeling pulled toward this other church for community reasons, we wouldn't switch from the UU church, we'd just ride the wave and hope it got better. There is a Unity church, which isn't for us, and a UCC church, which we have never tried because its very small. The other UU church is a 40 minute drive and I would rather just stay at this church where at least *I* have made a few friends through the mothers group.

[Matryoshka]

No, but I think of we weren't feeling pulled toward this other church for community reasons, we wouldn't switch from the UU church, we'd just ride the wave and hope it got better. There is a Unity church, which isn't for us, and a UCC church, which we have never tried because its very small. The other UU church is a 40 minute drive and I would rather just stay at this church where at least *I* have made a few friends through the mothers group.

 

 

I guess I'm spoiled where I am... there are both UU and UCC churches in virtually every town here, which means probably at least 3 of each within a 10-15 minute drive. Go 20-25 minutes and that number would more than double...

 

I don't think I could attend a church where I felt I had to hide what I really believed in order to be accepted. If there was really nothing else out there, I might be able to go to a church where I might not be on board with everything preached as long as I could be honest about what I believed and not be ostracized. In the latter case, a great community could tip the scales.

 

Not to derail your thread, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the Unity church - I've never attended one, but on paper it looks like it could be someplace I could be interested in if we ever had to move where there were no UU/UCC churches... what about it don't you like?

[windmillmarie]

I struggle with this too. I grew up Catholic, but very Easter-Christmas and a lightweight CCD program. My husband grew up without much religion at all but with passing references to Christianity. Both of our families are very eclectic with religious views from athiests to hardline Catholics and actively practicing Pagans of various beliefs. My kids are exposed to so much, but I would like a religious home too. If I am given a chance to truly homeschool, that would throw more into the problem. Things are compounded by the fact that in our area, there's a good diversity of religions!

 

Hmm. Very tough! Can you participate in both for a while and see where you are comfy? The only think I can think of right now is that even if your children pick up a belief you might not really hold, they might end up doing that as a teen or early twentysomething on their own anyhow as they explore the world. I don't know if that's comforting or not, but it is reality for a lot of people. I have a sister that ended up loving her husband's United Methodist church and going faithfully after her lightweight Catholic fairly non-going upbringing. My husband's brother has gotten into the non-denominational Christian his wife has attended since birth.

[BearWallowSchool]

No, I wouldn't put my kids in a church that I didn't believe just because I liked the people. I can relate to how you are feeling b/c I have been tempted to do the same. :grouphug:

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I don't see the point of going to a Christian church unless you're willing to be open to believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only way to salvation. If that is completely impossible for you then you would probably be wasting your time.

[Desert Rat]

No. I wouldn't go to a Christian church if I didn't believe in their religion. To me, and this is JMHO, I find it disrespectful to that church's beliefs. I probably wouldn't stay with the UU church either, though. I'm not one to stay where I'm not happy and not finding fullfillment.

I know how hard the decision must be though. Sometimes it's just easier to stay with the status quo than change. I've done that, too. I hope you do find what you're looking for soon!

[ravinlunachick]

Speaking as someone who was pretty seriously damaged by church as a child, I'd be inclined to tough it out as an adult for a good RE program for my kids. If there were any other way of spending time with these people and kids besides church, I'd do that. You can always attend a more personally suitable church when your children are older.

 

If marriage equality is important to you, you may find this enlightening:

http://theaquilareport.com/a-summary-of-pca-statements-on-homosexuality/

 

Of course, I suppose how much emphasis is placed on the matter might vary from congregation to congregation, but they're pretty clear about where they stand, imo.

[Saddlemomma]

I don't see the point of going to a Christian church unless you're willing to be open to believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only way to salvation. If that is completely impossible for you then you would probably be wasting your time.

:iagree:

[laundrycrisis]

I wouldn't stay someplace that felt lifeless or weird. But before attending the other church, I would want to find out specifically if they welcome people who question or hold somewhat different beliefs, as long as you are respectful and don't stir up trouble. I would not want to find out after getting connected there that we were "incognito apostates", and that we would have to keep that as a dark secret in order to not lose our connections to that community.

[NotSoObvious]

I guess I'm spoiled where I am... there are both UU and UCC churches in virtually every town here, which means probably at least 3 of each within a 10-15 minute drive. Go 20-25 minutes and that number would more than double...

I don't think I could attend a church where I felt I had to hide what I really believed in order to be accepted. If there was really nothing else out there, I might be able to go to a church where I might not be on board with everything preached as long as I could be honest about what I believed and not be ostracized. In the latter case, a great community could tip the scales.

Not to derail your thread, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the Unity church - I've never attended one, but on paper it looks like it could be someplace I could be interested in if we ever had to move where there were no UU/UCC churches... what about it don't you like?

 

I've actually never attended Unity before. My mom was into it a bit when I was younger. It's a little too on the spiritual side for me- that sounds bad, but I don't know how to explain it. I like straightforward, logical, intellectual services and Unity strikes me as being more like our current UU church- a lot of spirituality, but not a lot of "meat."

Aaaaaand I just realized how offensive that sounds! I just mean "meat" in the sense of what WE are looking for. It could be plenty meaty enough for someone who derives satisfaction from the aspects that I don't.

[NotSoObvious]

I don't see the point of going to a Christian church unless you're willing to be open to believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only way to salvation. If that is completely impossible for you then you would probably be wasting your time.

 

 

Thank you for this. It sort of all boils down to this and I think it's a deal breaker.

[NotSoObvious]

Speaking as someone who was pretty seriously damaged by church as a child, I'd be inclined to tough it out as an adult for a good RE program for my kids. If there were any other way of spending time with these people and kids besides church, I'd do that. You can always attend a more personally suitable church when your children are older.

If marriage equality is important to you, you may find this enlightening:

http://theaquilareport.com/a-summary-of-pca-statements-on-homosexuality/

Of course, I suppose how much emphasis is placed on the matter might vary from congregation to congregation, but they're pretty clear about where they stand, imo.

 

 

 

Yeah....so even though the congregation seems (and I've asked) moderate about this issue, I do have a problem with it. And when I consider raising my kids in a faith, this is a big issues for us. Hmm...

[Kathryn]

No, I wouldn't become members of a church whose doctrine I did not profess. Visiting is an entirely different matter, but I wouldn't sign on the dotted line unless I believed.

[PrincessMommy]

I couldn't go someplace where I didn't believe - especially on the fundamentals. I agree that perhaps visiting would be okay - but I also agree with georgiana D that you could create more trouble if your kids get really attached and then you find that you really can't worship there.

[NotSoObvious]

I couldn't go someplace where I didn't believe - especially on the fundamentals. I agree that perhaps visiting would be okay - but I also agree with georgiana D that you could create more trouble if your kids get really attached and then you find that you really can't worship there.

 

Thanks. I think this is where we are now!

 

 

Thank everyone for your responses! I've been relaying them to my husband!

[Ellie]

What would you do? Keep going somewhere that feels lifeless, but safe? Or try something outside of your comfort zone because it will possibly give your family a better network and more room for spiritual growth, and give your kids an amazing youth group? (It's important to me that my kids grow up in a church. It just is.)

I think it couldn't hurt to try the other church. Visiting isn't making a commitment to anything.

[gardenmom5]

I would not keep going somewhere that felt "lifeless".

 

My parents attended a UU when I was growing up. It felt very "going through the motions" for me.

[hana]

I'm in a really similar situation. I'm UU to my core--and I totally get what you said about the Unity church, it's just different. Anyways, we recently moved to a small border town in Canada. I REALLY want my children to make friends, and there are no homeschooling groups that "fit" us, so I had hoped to find an appropriate church. If we want to go to a church here it would have to be a United Church of Canada or Presbyterian. Some of the UUCs are gay-positive; I don't think the local one is. That would be a dealbreaker for my family. But more deeply, I'm just UU. I think I could by without most of what constitutes a UU service, but I can't give up the music. We've decided to start driving 2 hours to the UU Church we left behind years ago (before a prior move).

 

Good luck with your decision.

[Χά�ων]

Personally, my beliefs seem very similar to yours, and I don't think I could join a Christian church. UU is about as much as I can handle (I prefer to attend a liberal Quaker meeting). It sounds like you are drawn to the community involved in the new PCA, which sounds great--I don't blame you--but for me the deal breaker would be, well, that it wasn't really in line with my faith. At all. Is there any way to build some community and friendship with these other families separate from the church? A formal or informal homeschool group?

 

:iagree:

 

I gave up on having a church type family. I get that type of community elsewhere. I am not willing to drive over an hour each way to the nearest UU and even then I do not agree with everything and wish they taught about more world religions.

[Love2Smile]

I am just wondering how it is you say "I believe in God" yet you also say religions are man made? So do you also think God is man made?

[mamadana]

Hello,

 

I say go and try the new church? What do you have to loose? You may not agree with the statement of faith, but do you really agree 100% with any statement of faith? (not trying to be rude at all...but you know what I mean...)

I think Christmas time would be a nice time to make the switch...:)

Merry Christmas!

[ChristineW]

I'd give it a try. We attend a Presbyterian USA church and the pastor is very open about the fact that congregants come from a wide range of beliefs (conservative Christian to the 'nones'--religious but non-believing). I don't think you could join without professing faith, but I don't see the harm in a few visits. We have Catholic and Mormon friends who sometimes attend special events at the Church--like "Journey to Bethlehem" or family movie night, but then I think PCUSA is a fuzzier, more liberal denomination than PCA.

[ChristineW]

Double post

[MrsBasil]

I think I'd have a problem with it for a long term solution if I disagreed with the theology my children were being taught. If your children have friends at the church will that mean Sunday school, youth group, VBS, and other church related activities that are steeped in theology you don't believe? That would be hard for me as a parent.

 

I say this as a Christian who found a church home that I am on board with completely, but can't go to, have nothing comparable, and miss fellowship and worship in a group. I'm now trying to decide what to do about church. It's a hard decision.

 

In your case, not being Christian do realize that your children *might* be seen as kids who need evangelizing by others.

[Rosie_0801]

What is it you need that a church provides and other groups don't?

[Parrothead]

What happens if you just don't go to the UU services? Let the kids go to RE and then go home. Would that work for a while?

 

I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't be comfortable professing a faith I didn't believe.

[nd293]

I would not go somewhere under false pretenses, and I think that's what attending church when I'm not Christian would amount to. I know a wonderful Christian family who stopped attending church in favour of doing 'family church' because they perceived that it was more about social needs and community than belief. I would be concerned that my attendance would be offensive to some (if I did not share the church's beliefs and was not seeking to understand them with a view to adopting them). This is the reason we did not have a 'pretty' church wedding, and why sending the kids to a religious private school was not an option for me.

[plansrme]

I attended PCA churches for many years, including one of the oldest, largest PCA churches in the country, and I have never heard anyone say that gay people are going to hell. I can't imagine that coming out of the mouth of a PCA minister. I won't speak to the other questions, but opposing gay marriage is hardly, not even close to, the equivalent of believing that all gays are going to hell. Any PCA'er worth his or her salt would agree with that statement.

 

Terri

[nd293]

Still having problems with posting on the new forum - double post - again.

[mommaduck]

We used to be PCA and I know more than a few ministers, seminary professors, etc in the PCA. The PCA does hold to the WCF (Westminster Confession of Faith), the later version, not the original. They do not approve of homosexuality. The people in the church may vary from "homosexuality is worse than murder or pedophiles" to those that believe that some people are born gay, but should simply stay single. They are not rabid fundamentalists, but they are not liberal either, though they may be more open to working within the community on certain social issues.

 

You'd be welcomed to attend, but they do hold their beliefs pretty firmly. You may or may not be accepted within the congregation depending. I would have found it confusing that you would be attending somewhere that is so contrary to your beliefs. Speaking to the pastor ahead of time is always helpful. On the other hand, most PCA churches are pretty friendly.

[NotSoObvious]

Thanks for more replies. I think we've decided to stay put for now.

 

As far as what we believe...I feel like it's always evolving and open to change. We are former Mormons. :) so, we would never go to a church without being open, just to be clear. It's just feeling like a pretty big leap at this point. I understand the comments about it being offensive to attend a church you don't agree with but I guess if we felt like we could NEVER get there, we wouldn't even be considering it. We are still going through our own growth and transformation over here.

 

As far as PCA goes...we've never had any interactions that would lead us to peg them as fundermentalists, etc. everyone we have met has been absolutely open and accepting.

 

What can a church provide that other groups can't? Well, I grew up without a church, then passionately clung to the first thing that was introduced to me in high school, without giving it much thought. It was not the way to go. I want my kids to have a home church through their teenage years. I really don't care what religion they choose as adults, as long as they are good people who don't seek to isolate and elevate themselves from others. The UU church is fine for that, but it just isn't the community we were hoping for and I don't see it being an especially positive (just nothing special, but not negative) experience for my kids as teenagers.

 

I really appreciate all of your thoughtful insights!

[Laurie4b]

I think even in a specific denomination that an individual congregation is likely to have its own personality. PCA is theologically conservative. I don't think simply attending a church where you don't agree with the doctrine is disrespectful at all. I know a handful of spouses at our church, for instance, in that boat. People are accepting of them. But issues such as whether the congregation will be accepting or how much they align with certain political agendas is really going to vary from church to church.However, people who are theologically conservative may well be politically liberal. In our church, I"m guessing we have a pretty "normal curve" of political views, from pretty intense lefties to pretty intense right wingers (That's true of the staff as well.) It's only an issue on Facebook during election season, though! :laugh: And actually, most people keep their political opinions to themselves. Our church is theologically conservative.

 

 

What you do have to think seriously about is that your children will be taught PCA church doctrine whether in Sunday school or youth group and that will include being taught about making a personal commitment of faith. If you don't want that, then I don't know how attending would work.