Do you consider the Great Courses full course loads? Worthy of high school credit?

[Samiam]

I think the Great Courses offerings are amazing. And of course, found on sale, the prices are amazing.

 

But my concern is if you think they would be worthy of a credit? Either 1/2 credit for some, or full credit for some of the more intensive subjects. I don't see where any of the courses come with any sort of paper work, ie workbooks, etc (thinking some of the science or history courses that work on paper would be beneficial). Did I miss that?

 

Do you think that one would need to put extra effort into creating the accessory work, ie workbook pages, extra reading, etc? Or do you think that the Great Courses should be the accessory to another full curriculum, ie the audio/visual affect after you've already read/studied it in text book situation. Just exploring options for high school.

 

Advice?

[Old Dominion Heather]

My oldest is using the GC Biology course along with a textbook, written assignments, fieldwork, and online quizes and tests (correlated to the text). All that together will earn him his biology credit.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think the Great Courses offerings are amazing. And of course, found on sale, the prices are amazing.

 

But my concern is if you think they would be worthy of a credit? Either 1/2 credit for some, or full credit for some of the more intensive subjects. I don't see where any of the courses come with any sort of paper work, ie workbooks, etc (thinking some of the science or history courses that work on paper would be beneficial). Did I miss that?

 

Do you think that one would need to put extra effort into creating the accessory work, ie workbook pages, extra reading, etc? Or do you think that the Great Courses should be the accessory to another full curriculum, ie the audio/visual affect after you've already read/studied it in text book situation. Just exploring options for high school.

 

Advice?

 

I use them along with other reading, video, field trips and written work.

 

For example, we did a summer long study of the Civil War. They listened to the TC series; watched most of the Ken Burns Civil War documentary; read Battle Cry of Freedom, The Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglas, Red Badge of Courage and part of Uncle Tom's Cabin; and visited Harper's Ferry, Manassas, Antietam, Gettysburg, Richmond, Cold Harbor and the Monitor Center. At the end, I gave them one of the AP US History document based questions related to the Civil War and told them to write an essay on the topic. (The DBQ was a springboard, but their essay was not timed and they were allowed to do extra research.)

 

The TC lectures were very important for tying their studies together. But they did not stand alone.

 

We're doing something similar now for studying 1870-1914. We are listening to two different TC series by Patrick Allitt (which are great, BTW) on US History and Victorian Britain. They are doing readings from Spielvogel's Western Civilization and reading literature from the period (many short stories and a couple novellas).

[regentrude]

It depends entirely on the course and what you do with it.

Merely listening/watching to the CDs/DVDs? Not enough for a credit: not enough time spent, no active work/output.

But you can easily make a great credit out of TC courses if you add the suggested reading assignments and give writing assignments for the discussion questions (often, the course guidebook has reading assignments and discussion questions at the end of the lecture outline)

 

We have used TC lectures for history/literature.

For example, part of DD's credits for Ancient history/lit in 9th grade was listening to 72 TC lectures by Elizabeth Vandiver on Homeric epics, mythology and tragedies; in addition, she had a big reading list and writing assignments. For Medieval and Renaissance history in 10th grade, we listened to all three courses by Daileader and the Italian Renaissance course by Bartlett (120 lectures total)- in addition to reading and writing assignments and discussions. We also used the Dante and Shakespeare lectures as part of our literature credit.

So, absolutely, they can play a great role in a high school curriculum - but need to be supplemented by reading and writing.

 

The only high school level course we have used was chemistry- a severe disappointment and definitely not a stand-alone course. (Even though it does come with a workbook; the only course I have see so far that has such a thing)

 

ETA: I can not see a TC course on math being a credit; it can only serve as a supplement to a textbook course with problem assignments, because the student needs to work actively, and not just listen to somebody talk about math. Likewise, I would not use any of the physics courses without an accompanying textbook and worked problems - unless the student has already completed a traditional physics course and wants to use these as a Special Topics course.

[swimmermom3]

As Sebastian, regentrude, and Margaret posted, it depends upon the course.

 

Regentrude gave you a good example of how she approached a 9th grade year of Ancient history/literature. In our household, we like to extend beyond the Western tradition, so Greg Aldrete's, History of the Ancient World: A Global Perspective and SWB's History of the Ancient World create the foundational work. There are some very good essay questions with Aldrete's course that I have used and I have a DBQ book that helps with some of the primary source work. I also have on hand several of the AP board's World History syllabi which give me ideas for additional work. There is more than enough there for a history credit.

 

I have a large selection of TC courses and tend to pick and choose what I want to create a literature course so for example, I might add the first ten lectures in Grant Voth's excellent The History of World Literature to Regentrude's suggestions for the Vandiver lectures, again because I have a more global emphasis.

 

You can use the Great Courses whole or pull apart courses like A Day's Read or Thomas Noble's outstanding The Foundations of Western Civilization, Part I to make your own course. Search the internet for syllabi for the subject you are teaching. You will get a feel for what would make a credit and you will soon have a folder full of additional resources.

 

My personal opinion is that in order to get the most out of the Teaching Company lectures, you need to watch or listen and discuss with your student.

 

I would also agree that the high school math courses, especially those for Algebra I, II, and Geometry are supplementary, but I believe the teachers state that at the beginning of courses.

[Lori D.]

I certainly think the level of information is high school/college level material. And yes, I do think you can award high school credit, if you combine the lectures with additional work.

 

We used the Teaching Co. Great Course Economics for 0.5 credit.

 

It was a total of 36 30-minute lectures, and we discussed each briefly. DSs learned how to take notes on a lecture through this series, and I made a short quiz for each lecture for them to practice studying their notes, and then to have some additional output from them as written work. We also read/discussed a book, and did the Dave Ramsey Foundations in Personal Finance workbook/DVD program.

 

Here are more ideas of things you could do if you wanted to add to TC lectures:

- read/discuss related books

- write a research paper or essay

- make a few "unit" tests and a final exam

- for arts-related lecture series, go to performances of live plays, concerts, or art gallery showings

- for history-related lecture series, go to a re-enactment event, or museum exhibit

- do a project / hands-on

[FaithManor]

I consider the TC courses to be a basic starting point and I especially love them for the ability to put my child into a "lecture environment" so he can learn the fundamentals of notetaking from a speaker. Most of my friends who teach high school really do not lecture in any systematic way anymore and note-taking is a skill many students end up sorely lacking as college freshmen. But, as others have said, there isn't enough written work.

 

We are using geometry, algebra 2, trigonometry, and calculus lectures from TC in order to help me out with time and scheduling issues since we have three boys all in different high school level math programs at one time. For the algebras, we use the Lial's texts to fill out the necessary written work. In Geometry, Jacob's Geometry, and for Trig and Pre-Calc we have a couple of dh's AP texts from eons ago that have been tried and true books...the poor things are really rather worn out! Since Lial's has about 80 - 85 problems per lesson, the odds in addition to the ten or so problems in the guidebook make up the typical assignment. If any of the boys struggle with a topic, then I will carve out a tutoring session for them, go through the Lial's examples one by one, do a few evens with them, and then assign the rest. The boys still use the chapter exams from Lial's and I create a final test for the year out of many of the questions from the mixed/cumulative reviews from the text that we didn't use for daily work.

 

Ds is also doing a "great music study" with the same course Margaret described. However, since we live very rural and our options for concerts are limited - the DSO is a two our drive and costs $28.00 just for nosebleed seats...very, very limited classical music options within a one hour drive of here - he'll be doing A LOT of theory work and in order to get a high school credit, besides his notetaking on the lectures, concerts on dvd and PBS, he has classical guitar lessons plus some assigned work from the church music director as well. I will have him complete one semester of music theory for music-majors using one of my old stand-by college texts. Of course, this level is essentially AP but I haven't bothered to get my syllabus approved by the collegeboard. However, he may choose to take the exam. We'll see.

 

The key is to create a comprehensive work plan with enough material to demonstrate mastery of concepts. If one does that, then the Great Courses are great resources for content.

 

Faith

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One thing I should add is that I don't think any lecture setting OR textbook on its own suffices. There needs to be both input and output. And I like several modalities for both sides of the equation.

 

What TC sets provide IMHO is the insight of a passionate scholar who is familiar with the subject. I think this works hand in glove with textbooks and individual works of literature and non fiction or problem solving practice.

[EKS]

I consider them to be great supplements. We've used them many times alongside more traditional resources.

[Joan in GE]

I consider the TC courses to be a basic starting point and I especially love them for the ability to put my child into a "lecture environment" so he can learn the fundamentals of notetaking from a speaker. Most of my friends who teach high school really do not lecture in any systematic way anymore and note-taking is a skill many students end up sorely lacking as college freshmen. But, as others have said, there isn't enough written work.

 

I find the notetaking aspect very important!

 

One thing I should add is that I don't think any lecture setting OR textbook on its own suffices. There needs to be both input and output. And I like several modalities for both sides of the equation.

 

What TC sets provide IMHO is the insight of a passionate scholar who is familiar with the subject. I think this works hand in glove with textbooks and individual works of literature and non fiction or problem solving practice.

 

Yes, if you just use the TC courses - the student can be very passive and also very forgetful....They would tend to just enjoy the topic but not really 'work' with it mentally...

 

I can equate it with posting or following advice on the forums....I can read the posts but unless I turn over the ideas in my mind and sometimes dialog about them (mentally or online) and/or end up being changed by them in some way - it can be a waste of time...Too much like TV...

 

I consider them to be great supplements. We've used them many times alongside more traditional resources.

 

I think the whole idea of a mixture of resources helps the student to expand their vision of a subject and get away from the idea of 'just one textbook/teacher' mentality....and get away from the mentality of 'my teacher said this/that' as if that is the only source of knowledge....At this point, it is only in math that we primarily use one source but even then, because we have to prepare for Swiss exams, she'll have to delve into their way of approaching the subject...

 

Joan

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Depends on the course and what you add to it. We did one of the geology ones (How the Earth Works, I think) and ds filled out all the study questions out of the study guide. He also did extra reading in Tarbuck, a standard college text and earned the Geology merit badge in Scouts. We added in a few field trips and I gave him a half credit.

 

He's currently doing How to Listen and Understand Great Music. He'll be taking several quizzes, making a timeline of composers, has earned the Music and Bugling merit badges and will have racked up attendance at 30+ concerts, recitals and operas.

When you say you do study questions do you mean the questions to consider that are at the end of the lecture outline in the course guidebook?

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

We've used TC courses with our kids since elementary grades. Depending on the level of interest of the child and your expected outcomes this is certainly possible. In elementary years they were supplements that, as a previous poster described, insipred interest and passion in the kids for a particular topic. (There have been years of jokes off of Bob Brier's description of mummification and brain hooks.)

 

Now that they are older we have been using them in conjuction with other materials in a more organized fashion. As many before have stated they are a great lecture component in a course when combined with a text, supplemental readings, essays, tests, etc. I enjoy using them to provide the kids the opportunity to experience a lecture environment-notetaking and listening skills are important and I feel that I would be doing them a disserivce by sending them to university without some experience in that area. (Opportunities such as dual enrollement aren't always an option.)

 

I have come to realize that with high school aged children (who have the goal of dual enrollment or university in their future) I need to change my perspective on what materials I use and why. I have learned that there is value in using a text book because it has a language and organization pattern that is a code my kids need to crack and understand. There is value in academic style lectures because they are another method the kids need to understand-how to take information from a lecture and how to retain that information.

 

Another way we have used the courses is as prepatory material for a cultural experience. Prior to concerts, museum visits, vacations, etc. we have watched TC lectures that relate in order to better understand what we would be experiencing. The kids have often used information gained from a lecture to explain a particular work of art or the historical significance of a location to each other or another member of the family.

 

Final reason to use TC courses-they are just plain fun. They are fun for all of us (parents included) to listen to or watch.

[creekland]

We also used Economics as a 0.5 credit based upon the lectures and answering the few questions in the accompanying guidebook.

 

I have no regrets as oldest told me he was often bored in his college intro Economics classes as they mostly covered the same things. ;)

 

Their Chemistry is only an addition to a regular course. It certainly is not stand-alone for any sort of credit, but rather, just an addition to help students mainly understand the math and some of the concepts. It can be worth it as an addition, but that's it.

[FaithManor]

We also used Economics as a 0.5 credit based upon the lectures and answering the few questions in the accompanying guidebook.

 

I have no regrets as oldest told me he was often bored in his college intro Economics classes as they mostly covered the same things. ;)

 

Their Chemistry is only an addition to a regular course. It certainly is not stand-alone for any sort of credit, but rather, just an addition to help students mainly understand the math and some of the concepts. It can be worth it as an addition, but that's it.

 

I agree completely with Creekland about the chemistry. It really is not comprehensive. However, it has been occasionally useful when I've been gone and ds has needed an added explanation of a concept. I didn't pay a lot for it because of a super sale and I'm glad for that. For the low price I paid, it's been worth it to have on hand. It is no where near being a stand alone course in terms of content. But, now that my mom is having some health problems and I need to occasionally be gone during the afternoons for doctor's appointments with her, ds has used it efficiently to gt him over the hump on something instead of waiting until evening to access me for help. It's the only course we've purchased that I have to say comes up short of their normally high quality materials. It is also one of only a very tiny number of "written specifically for high school" lectures and maybe that has something to do with it.

 

Faith

[regentrude]

I agree completely with Creekland about the chemistry. It really is not comprehensive. However, it has been occasionally useful when I've been gone and ds has needed an added explanation of a concept. ... It is no where near being a stand alone course in terms of content. But, now that my mom is having some health problems and I need to occasionally be gone during the afternoons for doctor's appointments with her, ds has used it efficiently to gt him over the hump on something instead of waiting until evening to access me for help. It's the only course we've purchased that I have to say comes up short of their normally high quality materials. It is also one of only a very tiny number of "written specifically for high school" lectures and maybe that has something to do with it.

 

The bolded was our impression as well. It is the only TC course that we were seriously disappointed in and that I will return. I bought it hoping there would be some demonstrations, but it did not contain any; instead, the professor wasted three lectures to tell us that chemistry is not hard (without covering any actual content), proceeded for several lectures on Physics Science Middle school level, and then went at a snail's pace with enough repetition to drive us crazy. (We still get a good laugh when one of us says "First convert to MOLES" and does the hand movements.)

It may be a good addition for some, but definitely not worth the money we paid (sale price, but not exactly cheap), considering that Khan academy is free and does not treat the student like morons.

[Tullia]

The TC courses are a good starting point. I've used them mostly for supplements, occasionally for notetaking practice, and in one case as the foundation for a half credit course on the history of science. I added extra readings and writing assignments for the history course. I have not been overly impressed with the TC high school courses because I feel the instructors have been told to try to appeal to unmotivated students. My son and I sometimes found the tone of the courses directed specifically to high school students condescending. However, we did enjoy the chemistry set (with the exception of those first few lectures). Don't think we'd discovered Khan Academy at that point, but even so would not have been able to use it effectively because we had only dial-up internet in those days.

 

I bought the TC chemistry series because ds' math sequence was causing us trouble with science at that point in his life, and because I felt he needed to be exposed to different strategies for doing calculations. The TC chemistry course filled that role for us. It probably is not a good fit for a gifted/accelerated student, but it was the one TC high school course I decided to keep. I've since donated all the other high school level series to the local library.

[creekland]

I'm another who feels the Chemistry course was worth the money (we paid $40) even though it is not a stand alone course. I barely remember the first few lectures, but there were some on there that explained concepts well and could easily assist a student learning about it (pH comes to mind). For those who get confused with the math, he does make it plain and simple to where most ought to be able to get it. I plan to donate ours to our high school I think. The Chem teachers might use them when a non-Chem sub is in.

 

It's just not a stand-alone course. I do think the difference is that it is high school level (but not even a stand alone course there).

[M&M]

We have used TC as supplements to our TOG studies in history and literature. I am using the Chemistry course along with Conceptual Chemistry. Dd was very worried about chem, and those first few lectures helped her to confidently begin her studies.

 

I also think it would be very easy to use TC as a jumPing off point for any class.

[DarlaS]

My oldest is using the GC Biology course along with a textbook, written assignments, fieldwork, and online quizes and tests (correlated to the text). All that together will earn him his biology credit.

 

Are you using the Campbell's text with this? Or another?

[LibraryLover]

You mean just listening to/watching them?

[ChristineMM]

Thank you for this thread. I have just begun planning DS15's 11th grade year and am going to use TTC for the first time. I was confused about how much extra reading and papers to write to justify a full credit in history and non-lab sciences. (Not doing math either w TTC.)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I wonder if the age and type of student might play a part in the chemistry lectures reactions. A 15-year-old advanced science student is different from a young or struggling student. I don't think the chem course was aimed at the former. I think this is even mentioned in the course book.

 

My daughter was 12 when she started the chemistry lectures, and she has enjoyed them. We've found them beneficial as a supplement since she was only at a beginner's level when she started them. Watching them a couple years from now would be a different story.

 

I will add that my daughter likes chemistry. That may make a difference as well.

[klmama]

I haven't seen any TC courses yet that are worth a full credit on their own, but I like that they add a wonderful lecture component to our text-based courses.  After a few disappointments, I only buy or borrow courses with at least 4 full review stars. 

 

 

[KarenNC]

Would someone be willing to go into more detail on exactly how you use these courses for note-taking practice?

[Lori D.]

Would someone be willing to go into more detail on exactly how you use these courses for note-taking practice?

 

This will sound more formal than what it really was ;), but you asked "how exactly", so here you go :) :

 

First, prior to using the Great Course Economics, I ran DSs through some study skills materials. One topic we covered was note taking tips, which gave us a chance to learn about/try out different types of note-taking, to see what technique(s) DSs might click with. These were some techniques we ran across:

 

Two Column / Split Page Notetaking (see p. 8 of this Penn State Note Taking Strategies document) 

Cornell Notetaking

Mind Mapping

Visual Notetaking / Sketchnoting (3-min. video, what it is/why it works; 5-min. video, how-to tips)

SQ3R method (other versions: SQ4R, or, SQRR) -- for notetaking from a textbook

 

Second, just before starting the course, we talked about how to actively "listen" for what was important -- what kinds of things would be good to take notes on, and clues as to how to identify what information is "important". For example if it shows up on a power point bullet point; definitions of terms; explanations of processes; specific people/dates/events connected to these topics; repeated information, clues/cues of key points (lecturer gestures or writes on the board)...

 

Third, for actual note-taking while watching the lecture, they each had a spiral-bound notebook and used the method that worked for them. We paused the video at times to write down key info from power points inserted into the lecture.

 

Fourth, 2-3 days later, I would have them study their notes on the last lecture, and take a quiz I made. That was not only output to count towards using the TC videos as a credit, but for notetaking that helped DSs get a feel for it there was anything they needed to do differently in their notetaking -- needed more/less details, were they missing key points, did they need to include examples, etc.