Seriously freaking out

[Whereneverever]

I had a baby two weeks ago. We had a family member come visit and help... And they appear to have given my two year old a cold sore. :(

 

And then I googled cold sores and newborns... Apparently they have killed babies!

 

My poor two year old! And now I'm freaked about my baby. :(

 

Hive, anyone else have a toddler with a cold sore and a new baby and it was ok? I've never had them so I have no immunity to pass along. :(

[TengoFive]

You don't need to have had them to pass along immunity if you're nursing. Whatever the baby is exposed to, you start producing immunity to as soon as they nurse after exposure. That's why breastfed babies in daycares are generally sick less than formula fed babies. Even though the mother isn't exposed to all the germs the baby is, they produce immunity as soon as they nurse.

[Whereneverever]

You don't need to have had them to pass along immunity if you're nursing. Whatever the baby is exposed to, you start producing immunity to as soon as they nurse after exposure. That's why breastfed babies in daycares are generally sick less than formula fed babies. Even though the mother isn't exposed to all the germs the baby is, they produce immunity as soon as they nurse.

 

Really? I didn't know it worked that way. I thought it only passed immunity to things I had!

[Mergath]

Really? I didn't know it worked that way. I thought it only passed immunity to things I had!

 

That IS how it works. Your body can't produce antibodies to something it's never been exposed to.

[Tap]

Have you had a doctor look at it? Impetigo can look like cold sores also and is common in kids.

 

Link to a description of the difference between them.

[Whereneverever]

That IS how it works. Your body can't produce antibodies to something it's never been exposed to.

 

Ok, that's what I thought.

[Whereneverever]

Have you had a doctor look at it? Impetigo can look like cold sores also and is common in kids.

 

Link to a description of the difference between them.

 

It doesn't look like impetigo at all, but my mom is a nurse and coming to see it tomorrow.

 

Is it bad I'd prefer impetigo?

[besroma]

Have you had a doctor look at it? Impetigo can look like cold sores also and is common in kids.

 

Link to a description of the difference between them.

 

 

 

 

I would definitely make sure it is not impetigo.

[ktgrok]

That IS how it works. Your body can't produce antibodies to something it's never been exposed to.

 

What happens is when the baby is exposed to something then he exposes you, so you can produce antibodies.

Edited November 15, 2012 by ktgrok

[justLisa]

What happens is when the baby is exposed to something then he exposes you, so you can produce antibodies.

 

Exactly. I was trying to figure out how to word that without using one hundred words.

[Tap]

It doesn't look like impetigo at all, but my mom is a nurse and coming to see it tomorrow.

 

Is it bad I'd prefer impetigo?

 

I would prefer impetigo to cold sores ANY day!

 

If it is cold sores, talk to a doctor to see if you can give him acyclovir. I have no idea if it is approved for his age or not, but I believe it comes in liquid. It is a prescription antiviral that will greatly shorten the lenth of an outbreak. It also seems to lessen future outbreaks.

 

I hope it is not cold sores....dh gets them and they look very painful!

[Whereneverever]

What happens is when the baby is exposed to something then he exposes you, so you can produce antibodies.

 

So nursing him will protect him some? Would putting some of my milk in a cup help my toddler? He recently weaned. :(

[Mergath]

 

I hope it is not cold sores....dh gets them and they look very painful!

 

:iagree: I get them pretty frequently, and OUUUCH. Op, if your dd doesn't seem to be in pain, I'd guess it's impetigo, because cold sores HURT.

[jentancalann]

Yes, my oldest had one when my daughter was born. He was about 6. We have a pic of him holding her. I'm sure I had one sometime that first year as well. Just make sure hands are washed and he doesn't kiss her. As of yet, she hasn't broken out (she's 8).

[JenC3]

So nursing him will protect him some? Would putting some of my milk in a cup help my toddler? He recently weaned. :(

 

Yes, and put some directly on his cold sore. I had to get Bmilk from a friend this summer for an eye infection..gonr the next day. Love the magic Bmilk!

[Whereneverever]

:iagree: I get them pretty frequently, and OUUUCH. Op, if your dd doesn't seem to be in pain, I'd guess it's impetigo, because cold sores HURT.

 

I don't think ds is in pain. He hasn't altered what he is eating or drinking. I asked him if it hurt and he said yes, and he needed ice cream. :tongue_smilie: But I also asked him if his toes hurt, too, and he said yes to that, as well.

[Whereneverever]

Yes, and put some directly on his cold sore. I had to get Bmilk from a friend this summer for an eye infection..gonr the next day. Love the magic Bmilk!

 

I'll do that in the morning, thanks!

[Classically Minded]

When you say "cold sore" are you talking about herpes simplex 1 that occurs on the lips or a canker sore inside the mouth? If it is herpes/cold sore of the lip then it is very dangerous for your newborn - whatever you do, don't let the infected 2yr old touch or kiss the baby while the sore is there/active. Also, wash your hands when touching your 2yr old and don't kiss the 2yr old and then the baby. HTH!

[Whereneverever]

When you say "cold sore" are you talking about herpes simplex 1 that occurs on the lips or a canker sore inside the mouth? If it is herpes/cold sore of the lip then it is very dangerous for your newborn - whatever you do, don't let the infected 2yr old touch or kiss the baby while the sore is there/active. Also, wash your hands when touching your 2yr old and don't kiss the 2yr old and then the baby. HTH!

 

Yes, I'm talking cold sore not canker sore. That's why I've been freaking out.

[HappyCrazyMama]

Yes, I'm talking cold sore not canker sore. That's why I've been freaking out.

For the sake of your newborn I'd take your 2yo to the doctor to verify.:(

[Whereneverever]

For the sake of your newborn I'd take your 2yo to the doctor to verify.:(

 

My mom is a nurse and coming tomorrow. Even if it is a cold sore he isn't old enough to take any medications for it- what else can the doctor do? :bigear:

[HappyCrazyMama]

My mom is a nurse and coming tomorrow. Even if it is a cold sore he isn't old enough to take any medications for it- what else can the doctor do? :bigear:

I did read that your mom was a nurse but I would just want to know if I needed to be hyper-vigilant or not. I guess I would just want a doctor to confirm if it was a cold sore or not, they can culture it. I had a friend whose baby was infected with the herpes virus from a cold sore, he lived but it was very scary. :grouphug:

[TengoFive]

What I was trying to say though, is that if your baby is exposed, you are exposed the minute he/she starts to nurse and you immediately begin to produce antibodies.

 

That IS how it works. Your body can't produce antibodies to something it's never been exposed to.

[Classically Minded]

Yes, I'm talking cold sore not canker sore. That's why I've been freaking out.

 

Well, I can tell you what helps mine, I used to get them 4-6 times a year and now only get them 1-2 times a year, since implementing these things. First of all, L-lysine helps prevent them or can even stop one if you take it at the first "tingle" feeling. Not sure if a 2yr old can take it or at what dose, but your 2yr old could increase the intake of high-lysine foods and lower the intake of high-arginine foods, to shorten the duration of the cold sore. You can google those and find a lot of lists including what foods are high in lysine and which are high in arginine.

 

For the pain relief, I hold ice on the sore off and on - it helps numb it. To make the sore go quickly, I wipe it with rubbing alcohol and then pop (yes, it hurts) each vesicle and quickly wipe them with alcohol (it helps dry out the vesicle). Since doing that, I have shortened the amount of days I have them from 7-14 down to 5 days! Lemon balm, steeped and strained in tea form also shortens the duration and helps with pain. Either drink it, while stopping to hold it at the sore for a while or wipe it on there with a cotton ball and hold it. For a 2yr old, I would probably do the cotton ball because drinking it can also cause a very "relaxed" feeling that I'm not sure if safe for a 2yr old.

 

It is sad to say, but once you get a cold sore, you have them for life in most cases. They are always there, dormant, but are re-activated in times of stress, sickness or other reasons that doctors still don't understand. I would be pretty upset with whatever family member came to see a newborn with an active cold sore!!!! :banghead:

 

I would call your pediatrician and let them know what is going on and they will probably tell you the same thing - keep the 2yr old away from the baby and wash your hands a lot before touching the baby.

[Classically Minded]

To add.....got this from the gov't website fact sheet of what to look for to see if a newborn may have contracted HSV:

 

Contact your doctor immediately if there are any signs of HSV infection. These include low grade fever (100.4 degrees F., or more, rectally), poor feeding, irritability, and skin rash in the form of pimples or blisters, seizures or other similar symptoms that may develop within six weeks following birth.

[Perry]

What I was trying to say though, is that if your baby is exposed, you are exposed the minute he/she starts to nurse and you immediately begin to produce antibodies.

It really doesn't work like that. Say the baby is exposed to something. The only way mom will get exposed is if the baby is shedding germs. And he won't start shedding germs (i.e. be contagious) until the germs have been in his body awhile, and allowed to reproduce. Once he has enough germs to be contagious, and mom becomes exposed, it will take awhile for her body to make antibodies to pass back to the baby. By then baby is already sick.

 

Baby really only gets protection from antibodies mom already has in her body.

[Perry]

What I was trying to say though, is that if your baby is exposed, you are exposed the minute he/she starts to nurse and you immediately begin to produce antibodies.

Also, if this were the case, breastfed babies would be protected from every contagious disease. And that clearly doesn't happen.

[Whereneverever]

To add.....got this from the gov't website fact sheet of what to look for to see if a newborn may have contracted HSV:

 

Contact your doctor immediately if there are any signs of HSV infection. These include low grade fever (100.4 degrees F., or more, rectally), poor feeding, irritability, and skin rash in the form of pimples or blisters, seizures or other similar symptoms that may develop within six weeks following birth.

 

Yeah, I already found that. I'm planning to keep the two year old away from the baby and everyone is on hand washing crack down.

[Whereneverever]

Ok, I sent a pic in and it looks like it may be angular cheilitis, not a cold sore. I'll have him looked at tomorrow.

[laundrycrisis]

Did the visiting relative handle or kiss the baby, or you, ever, during this visit ?

 

It if was me, I would go ahead and notify the pediatrician that HSV-1 has been transmitted in your household recently, and that you have never had it. Any fever in the baby will have to be taken very seriously. Especially since you have never had cold sores. Even if you catch it now, you would not be able to develop and transmit antibodies quickly enough.

 

Also, your other child's sore can be swabbed and tested. For everyone's peace of mind, I would have this done.

 

I really hope it is not a cold sore.

 

:grouphug:

Edited November 15, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[Whereneverever]

Did the visiting relative handle or kiss the baby, or you, ever, during this visit ?

 

It if was me, I would go ahead and notify the pediatrician that HSV-1 has been transmitted in your household recently, and that you have never had it. Any fever in the baby will have to be taken very seriously. Especially since you have never had cold sores. Even if you catch it now, you would not be able to develop and transmit antibodies quickly enough.

 

Also, your other child's sore can be swabbed and tested. For everyone's peace of mind, I would have this done.

 

I really hope it is not a cold sore.

 

:grouphug:

 

And yeah, this relative spent a lot of time holding the baby. :(

Yeah, I'm going to call tomorrow to see what they say.

[SonshineLearner]

Pretty much everyone has Oral Herpes, right?? If that's true... there's some immunity... You don't have to even break out to have it... at least that's what I heard... didn't look it up... :)

[Carol in Cal.]

:grouphug:

[indigomama]

I seem to get cold sores (had a horrible initial episode of herpes of the mouth as a toddler) everytime I have a baby. I have never passed them to my newborn. Three of my children have gotten the herpes virus but never as newborns usually as toddlers. Our ped said 85% of the adult population is tested would test positive to the herpes virus, whether they've ever had a breakout or not, it is very common. I wouldn't freak out. I bet your baby will be fine.

[TengoFive]

Protected from, no. Enhanced immunity to, yes. I'll try to look up the studies I have sourced later. It may be after the site comes back online though.

 

I want to make it clear though, that I'm not telling the OP to not worry about the cold sore because she's nursing. I was just addressing her specific statement that she didn't have it, so she couldn't pass immunity on.

 

Also, if this were the case, breastfed babies would be protected from every contagious disease. And that clearly doesn't happen.

Edited November 15, 2012 by TengoFive

[TengoFive]

It really doesn't work like that. Say the baby is exposed to something. The only way mom will get exposed is if the baby is shedding germs. And he won't start shedding germs (i.e. be contagious) until the germs have been in his body awhile, and allowed to reproduce. Once he has enough germs to be contagious, and mom becomes exposed, it will take awhile for her body to make antibodies to pass back to the baby. By then baby is already sick.

 

Baby really only gets protection from antibodies mom already has in her body.

 

This isn't the study that was done, but says what I was trying to more eloquently.

 

http://www.llli.org/faq/prevention.html

" Nursing also allows your baby to give germs to you so that your immune system can respond and can synthesize antibodies! This means that if your baby has come in contact with something which you have not, (s)he will pass these germs to you at the next nursing; during that feeding, your body will start to manufacture antibodies for that particular germ. By the time the next feeding arrives, your entire immune system will be working to provide immunities for you and your baby."

[Whereneverever]

I seem to get cold sores (had a horrible initial episode of herpes of the mouth as a toddler) everytime I have a baby. I have never passed them to my newborn. Three of my children have gotten the herpes virus but never as newborns usually as toddlers. Our ped said 85% of the adult population is tested would test positive to the herpes virus, whether they've ever had a breakout or not, it is very common. I wouldn't freak out. I bet your baby will be fine.

 

That's true and comforting. Thanks. :grouphug:

 

I'm vacillating between thinking he will be fine and just to call the doc in the am and wanting to drive to Colorado and camp at the hospital until someone promises it's ok. :tongue_smilie:

[EthiopianFood]

I seem to get cold sores (had a horrible initial episode of herpes of the mouth as a toddler) everytime I have a baby. I have never passed them to my newborn. Three of my children have gotten the herpes virus but never as newborns usually as toddlers. Our ped said 85% of the adult population is tested would test positive to the herpes virus, whether they've ever had a breakout or not, it is very common. I wouldn't freak out. I bet your baby will be fine.

 

I know a child who was exposed as a newborn, contracted it, and now has severe mental retardation. Yes, it can be a very big deal.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

My mom is a nurse and coming tomorrow. Even if it is a cold sore he isn't old enough to take any medications for it- what else can the doctor do? :bigear:

 

 

Did your mom come look at your son? I have never heard of this scare!

And I breastfeed all of my babies so, I guess I am glad I had a terrible cold sore in my first pregnancy after throwing up.

 

I hope you and your family fare well and I will be praying for your baby to be healthy and son to heal quickly.

We did have a horrible round of Pertussis and I am glad I was breastfeeding our 1 year old. He had a rough time, but not as rough as some of our other children.

 

If it is any consolation, I have a 5 month old baby now and some of our kids have had impetigo and a few had cold sores. I am glad I always demand them to wash hands and not kiss the baby when sick.

 

I am ill with a sinus problem now and baby has a cold in her eye now. I squirted milk in her eye earlier.

 

I am just getting ready to take some Olive Leaf Extract to help me get better. I lost my voice overnight.

[Perry]

This isn't the study that was done, but says what I was trying to more eloquently.

 

http://www.llli.org/faq/prevention.html

" Nursing also allows your baby to give germs to you so that your immune system can respond and can synthesize antibodies! This means that if your baby has come in contact with something which you have not, (s)he will pass these germs to you at the next nursing; during that feeding, your body will start to manufacture antibodies for that particular germ. By the time the next feeding arrives, your entire immune system will be working to provide immunities for you and your baby."

This is very misleading. The mother cannot make antibodies unless she is infected. She can't be infected until the baby has become contagious, and that does not happen instantaneously, it takes days after the initial exposure.

 

La Leche League isn't a reliable source for scientific information about immunology. :lol:

[Perry]

This isn't the study that was done, but says what I was trying to more eloquently.

 

http://www.llli.org/faq/prevention.html

" Nursing also allows your baby to give germs to you so that your immune system can respond and can synthesize antibodies! This means that if your baby has come in contact with something which you have not, (s)he will pass these germs to you at the next nursing; during that feeding, your body will start to manufacture antibodies for that particular germ. By the time the next feeding arrives, your entire immune system will be working to provide immunities for you and your baby."

 

Here is an excerpt of an article from a pediatrician:

When you ask a bunch of doctors about how breast-feeding prevents infection, they get it wrong—I know they do, because I've asked the question. Doctors tell you that colostrum (produced in the first three days or so after a baby is born) and breast milk are full of maternal antibodies. Next, doctors say that these maternal antibodies are absorbed into the infant's blood circulation and thus serve to protect infants from disease.

 

That's the correct description of the immunology of breast-feeding for most mammals. It's also true that human colostrum and milk are rich in maternal antibodies—colostrum is pretty much antibody soup. And babies take in these antibodies as they nurse. But human babies are never able to absorb maternal antibodies from milk or colostrum into the bloodstream, except perhaps in the minutest amounts. Maternal antibodies in milk and colostrum protect against infection—but only locally, working inside the baby's gastrointestinal tract.

 

This information will surprise farmers, veterinarians, and strongly invested proponents of breast-feeding. After all, if a newborn piglet is deprived of its mother's colostrum for the first eight hours of life, it is almost guaranteed to become sick and die. Similarly, newborn horses, cats, dogs, and most other mammals are not likely to survive long if they are deprived of colostrum. The reason is simple: Most mammals are born without any antibodies, or only the tiniest amounts, circulating in their blood. That leaves them defenseless at birth against viruses, bacteria, and other pathogens. Fortunately, for a brief period after birth, the antibody molecules in colostrum can easily pass through the bowel walls of babies of each of these species.

 

But human newborns, it turns out, differ from most other mammals in the way they acquire maternal antibodies. (Before the creationists get too excited, I should point out that everything I am about to say applies to monkeys as well as to people.) Newborn infants get their maternal protection before birth, via an active transport system in the human placenta that carries maternal antibodies from the mother to the fetus. Unlike all those other animals, human babies are born with all the maternal antibodies they will ever have. That's why we don't need to absorb maternal antibodies from colostrum. And it's why formula-fed babies are not at a disadvantage, compared with breast-fed babies, in their supply of circulating maternal antibodies.

 

None of this is my discovery. It was well-known, even commonplace, in the immunological literature of 40 years ago. But as the field turned to other matters, these findings just sort of fell out of fashion (though I've certainly come upon plenty of modern papers whose authors understand the idea). Because of the modern aversion to looking at older research, a surprisingly large number of doctors, especially nonimmunologists, have either forgotten this aspect of human immunity or never knew about it. And perhaps nobody wanted to bring the older findings to light for fear that doing so might discourage breast-feeding. (I can assure you that I feel some trepidation as I write this.)

 

Before breast-feeding's able defenders come after me with pitchforks, I'd like to reiterate that I'm only talking here about the incorrect idea that maternal antibodies in milk or colostrum protect against diseases by being absorbed in the baby's blood. The breast milk antibodies are present in the babies' intestines, and while they're not absorbed, they still protect against diarrheal disease, and perhaps other infections as well. This is a huge boon in parts of the world where sanitation is poor and refrigeration nonexistent.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2012 by Perry

[Whereneverever]

Here is an excerpt of an article from a pediatrician:

 

So unless I have the virus and just don't know it, breastfeeding doesn't help. That's what I'm getting?

 

Assuming it is HSV-1, and not angular cheilitis.

 

Man, what am I going to do without the Hive for a day?

[Perry]

So unless I have the virus and just don't know it, breastfeeding doesn't help. That's what I'm getting?

 

Assuming it is HSV-1, and not angular cheilitis.

 

Man, what am I going to do without the Hive for a day?

 

If you had it in the past, and still have antibodies, baby would be getting some protection from maternal antibodies received before birth.

 

If you haven't ever been exposed to HSV in the past, baby won't get any protection specifically for HSV from you through breastfeeding, even if you were recently exposed. If you were just now exposed to HSV and became infected, you will make antibodies, but what antibodies are passed through the breast milk probably won't help.

 

Hope it turns out to be nothing. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Perry]

If you had it in the past, and still have antibodies, baby would be getting some protection from maternal antibodies received before birth.

And, about 50-60% of US adults have HSV antibodies.

[TengoFive]

This is the most comprehensive article I've found. It goes into great depth. If you want to skip to pages 14 and 15, it specifically covers how breastmilk reacts to the herpes virus.

http://www.sepeap.org/archivos/pdf/10488.pdf

 

Here is an excerpt of an article from a pediatrician:

[laundrycrisis]

OP, I hope it turned out not to be a cold sore, and that all is well.

[6wildhorses]

When I get fever blisters I spray GSE Throat Spray on them, and they disappear quickly and painlessly. http://www.nutribiotic.com/throat-spray.html I've also used GSE liquid with success, but it's quite strong and would need to be diluted. Also lansinol works great, and perhaps you have some of that already. If I were in your shoes I would spray the throat spray on my kids lips and smear their lips with lansinoh several times a day. The throat spray may slightly irritate the skin around their mouths, so the excess on the skin can be wiped off. This is what I would do, but insert medical disclaimer here (:

[I.Dup.]

What I was trying to say though, is that if your baby is exposed, you are exposed the minute he/she starts to nurse and you immediately begin to produce antibodies.

 

that isn't possible. You can't get exposed to something through your nipple. Day care BF babies aren't much more protected than formula fed, because the mother isn't there getting exposed to every little thing. And the baby can't expose us just through nursing.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Really? I didn't know it worked that way. I thought it only passed immunity to things I had!

That IS how it works. Your body can't produce antibodies to something it's never been exposed to.

Your baby exposes you to whatever he/she has been exposed to while you are breast feeding. It works both ways.

[Gretchen in NJ]

that isn't possible. You can't get exposed to something through your nipple. Day care BF babies aren't much more protected than formula fed, because the mother isn't there getting exposed to every little thing. And the baby can't expose us just through nursing.

I disagree. This would be contradict what my midwife, GYN doctor and my family doctor told me. It would also contradict my sister who is a professor of gennectic biology says to be true. Your skin is the first defence in fighting disease.