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I need help deciding what to use for history for 9th grade (long)


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I've used SOTW for the last 4 years with my children. My younger son is entering grade 5 and we'll do SOTW Vol 1 again since I'm sure he doesn't remember a whole lot. But my indecision is about my incoming 9th grader. He's always been "different" type of learner. He is a strong but extremely slow reader. He remembers lots and lots of details. He is okay at math, does great in science & robotics team, struggles tremendously at grammar and hates writing but will willingly do so as long as it's just facts! We tried using TOG along with SOTW two years ago and it didn't go well at all. Remember I said my son reads extremely slowly! It took him weeks to read the material for one week of TOG.

 

So, I'm at a loss. I've looked at Notgrass but don't know enough about whether it's a solid history program or not. I've thought about trying the new revised TOG again but I'm not sure how different it is from the old one. Also, we do want him to be prepared to enter college.

Any advice from the more experienced moms? Anyone have a boy like this? What worked well for him?

 

TIA,

Karen

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He just is finishing the last few chapters in SOTW vol. 4 this summer. He loved this series and got so much out of it.

 

My ds doesn't read slowly, but he has Asperger syndrome. He has trouble staying focuses on anything for a long period of time compared to his peers. He likes to read and is a GREAT reader. He would read all day and do nothing else if I'd let him. But he has other subjects to tackle. Math takes him FOREVER. Because of this, I can't pile on the reading or he'd be doing official school stuff well into the night.

 

Anyway, after completing SOTW, he asked to learn more about American History. At first, I was going to use All American History. Then I started looking at Hakim's A History of US. Finally, I let him preview both of these and I talked to him about how I plan to flesh both book programs out a bit for him. Then, I let him choose. He likes A History of US best.

 

I ordered the syllabus for this series from Hewitt Homeschooling Resources. It has a plan laid out to read the books in a year, project ideas (that I think my ds will REALLY enjoy...Fridays will be project day) and a test for each book (which I may or may not use). I will also have my son write a short narration of each chapter he reads everyday.

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Off the top of my head (and with a 5 yo talking in my ear), I think I would have him do history as outlined in TWTM. If he isn't strong on taking notes, I would go back to the logic stage chapter on history in TWTM and have him learn to take notes with Kingfisher or the Oxford Ancient History (recommended in that chapter, not sure of the exact title). If he's strong on taking notes, follow the rhetoric level recommendations for great books study. Just take a slower pace and choose fewer works.

 

I would use Greenleaf Guide to Ancient Literature as a help to go along with it. A slow reader could easily complete the reading in that guide in a year and will have hit all the most important works for the ancient time period. For the history portion, he could write a context paper for each of the works using the methods outlined in the great books study chapter in the rhetoric section of TWTM.

 

I know it's frustrating for a slow reader. I have one myself. We had him study for and take the Western Civ. I CLEP this year. The REA study guide is a an abbrieviated quick tour through history (i.e. not too much reading). It was motivating for him to know he could get college credit for it. One caveat though: there are worldviews in the study guide which most conservative Christians won't agree with. If he's already well-grounded, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you're concerned, you might consider waiting or skipping it.

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Keep looking at Notgrass. My 14 yo dd is using Notgrass American History, just started this summer, and it has been excellent for her, very solid. She's not quite as you described your son, but after years and years of literature-based history, she confessed to me that she wanted something that just had her reading, then answering questions. Long story short, we chose Notgrass. It does include a lot of reading, not so much in the history book itself as in the extra book of source documents. Being a slow reader wouldn't be a problem unless your son had to have a strict deadline for doing the work. You could eliminate the "English" program and writing assignments if these didn't fit him. My dd answers the questions after each chapter, and they are very fact/comprehension-based, not so much opinion or analysis-based. So that could be a plus for your son.

 

Also, the Notgrass company cites its American history program as being more advanced than its World History program, so suggests that students start with World History. My dd chose to start with American History because she is anxious to study American Gov't (again with Notgrass) and I told her it would be wise to study Am. History first, since she hasn't had any since we did Sonlight in 4/5th grades. So, perhaps if your son started with Notgrass WH rather than American, the reading load would be lighter.

 

HTH!

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TOG is a great curriculum, but it is reading heavy. That being said, you can adjust the reading to what you think your son can accomplish. Because it is a "smogasbord" approach, you can just do the core assignments, and work from there with your discussions and testing. So he's assigned chapters out of 2 books instead of 4.

 

I like TOG because someone else has done all the legwork for me, recommending fantastic selections and asking very meaty, thought provoking questions. The evaluations are all there too. WTM has a lot of work for the parent in trying to decide what to do, where to find it, how to evaluate it, etc.

 

HTH, Pam

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I think I'll go back to Notgrass and look again at their samples of World History. I also just found a free 3-week download of TOG for Egypt. Luann, I haven't reviewed TWTM recommendations at all this summer because the book has been out on loan to a friend for some time now but you made a good point about outlines. I think I'll work with him over the summer on doing outlines and I may even have the Greenleaf book in the attic (we also have a 21 year old so her old stuff is put away). Also, are you the same Luann I emailed a while back about moving to Idaho?

 

Thank you all again for some good points to consider. If I use either TOG or TWTM recommendations, approximately how much time/day would I need to spend one-on-one with him? Just trying to make sure I can do it all!

 

Karen

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How about the Genevieve Foster books?

Or Susan Bauer's History of the Ancient World? I'm planning on using these with my 9th grader. I have to reread Bauer's book to see how "readable" it is for a 14 year old though. He may just read selections.

 

Gotta get on that reading list I have to prepare for school!

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Luann, I haven't reviewed TWTM recommendations at all this summer because the book has been out on loan to a friend for some time now but you made a good point about outlines. I think I'll work with him over the summer on doing outlines and I may even have the Greenleaf book in the attic (we also have a 21 year old so her old stuff is put away). Also, are you the same Luann I emailed a while back about moving to Idaho?

 

Thank you all again for some good points to consider. If I use either TOG or TWTM recommendations, approximately how much time/day would I need to spend one-on-one with him? Just trying to make sure I can do it all!

 

Karen

 

Yes, I'm the Luann in ID you emailed. I had been wondering if you were the Karen in NH who emailed me. Are you still thinking about moving here?

 

I used to always have the problem of not being able to look up things in TWTM because it was loaned out. After buying I don't know how many copies of the book, I finally asked our library put it on their shelves so I could refer friends there.

 

As far as how much one-on-one time he'll need from you if you use TWTM great books study recommendations: My dc read all the material, research the historical background, and write their context pages and notes on their own. We have two discussions a week together which last about two hours each. I usually look over anything they have written during that time.

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I ditto the above advice to follow WTM as a guideline.

 

As a backgound, throughout my son's high school years, I ran a literature discussion group. I used the Kolbe academy syllabi for Literature and History as a basis for our readings and followed WTM methods.

 

My students varied widely in ability. Our slow reader benefited greatly from doing the reading even though she did not always finish. She could always contribute to the discussion by telling what part of the reading stood out to her the most, followed by an explanation of why.

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Karen:

To answer your question regarding how much daily time is spent if teaching from TOG...

Tapestry of Grace has been my family's educational pillar for the past three years (started when my son was starting ninth grade and daughter seventh grade). God has blessed me with two VERY different learners. :)

So, TOG is tailored for my children's educational needs. My son dislikes reading. My daughter loves to read. My son rather do math and science all day long and HATES writing. My daughter is totally oposite. O.k. you get the idea. How do I utilize TOG for such different learners? Each Monday we sit down at command central; a.k.a. the kitchen table, hopefully cleaned off first. Reading assignments are discussed then along with scheduling the rest of our subjects, etc. I have become very comfortable with TOG suggested reading. I try to look ahead at the list a couple of weeks ahead and order books from local public library. So on a particular Monday I assign as few as possible reading assignments for my son as possible. He has a very heavy math and science load already. Sometimes I have picked up my own book titles from the library too that I know would interest him. For example... this coming year we are studying TOG year 1 (with the revised version which I am learning). There are several suggested books on warfare in ancient Greece and Rome - a topic interesting to my son. This reading topic will be for him. Also, I still assign some "Dialectic" books for him when he has a heavy math week. When a writing assignment is needed I always try to tie in the lesson with a topic that stimulates. A long research paper topic parallels history but pertains to his interests. I hope I am making sense... Yes, to answer how long - we discuss the week's scheduling on Monday morning for about twenty minutes and then my students read and answer their "thinking questions" on their own during the week. Our history and literature discussion sessions are usually scheduled for Fridays. TOG has taught them how to manage their schedules - they own it! I rarely need to help them during the week with geography, literature, history, church history. What I do spend exhorbitant time on each day is helping them with math, science, and Spanish. Remeber my son reads slower than my daughter. I try very hard not to overload with reading. You can also try to read with him - my teens still love this! Also, why not take a school year to complete half of a typical TOG curriculum? Who says you must keep pace with a suggested curriculum. TOG may not be for your son BUT it is indeed flexible and does NOT take mother's time each day. During the week while my teens are reading history and literature I read my own TOG teacher's notes and highlight points I want to discuss with them on a Friday discussion session. There are times my son did not complete his TOG "Thinking Questions" thoroughly (in my opinion) so during the discussion session we go over the material in more detail. My kids diligently complete their questions as well as possible but are encouraged to speak up for clarification. TOG has the answers laid out for me too.

TOG really helps prepare high school students for college - even when my son will probably major in the engineering field. They learn how to read material (essential for college), how to search for answers, how to think and analyze, how to discuss and share points, and how to appreciate God's marvelous HIStory.

Last year I taught a world history course to a local co-op. Notgrass World History was the initial text, but found the students were very bored with the history text and answering standard rote questions each week. No matter which direction you travel please consider this point: most students appreciate history, for example, from reading REAL books, not condensed texts.

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My youngest son will be in the 9th grade this year and I am going to use All American History with him . I will also be using alot of extra reading and he will write papers ,take notes on his reading do map work, timeline and lots of other extras to flesh it out. I am going to add American Lit. to this. he will read apporx. 8-10 books for the Lit. part and will write various papers to go with it.

HTH

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Just a thought, but -- what about a simple textbook such as Spielvogel's Human Odyssey (a high school level textbook) to practice the reading -- maybe even some outlining skills -- and flesh it out with:

 

 

- Teaching Company course

These are college level (though accessible to high school students) courses of a professor giving a series of 1-hour lectures on DVD on many different topics; he could listen/watch/rewind as needed, and could perhaps even practice some simple note taking skills. These are often available at public libraries for check out, or are sold used on sale/swap boards or ebay. The company also regularly has sales, so you can buy a $500 course of 24 lectures for $150.

 

See it at: http://www.teach12.com/teach12.asp?ai=16281

 

 

- Films

Watch some documentaries and feature films set in that political/historical frame. Your local library may have DVDs for check out; or consider a subscription to Netflix -- they are very reasonable, have a choice of how many movies at a time (and therefore different monthly fees) you can have out, and they have a HUGE selection of films, TV shows, documentaries, etc. on DVD all delivered right to your mailbox.

 

Ideas for films to supplement history at Paula's Archives:

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/movies.htm

 

 

- Historical Fiction

Have him *listen* to historical fiction from that time frame as books on tape. Or read them aloud to him. Or read aloud to the whole family 1-2 nights a week as a special family night activity. Again, your local library will probably have some of those books listed in Tapestry of Grace, or Sonlight, or Notgrass or whatever you go with.

 

 

- Great Books

Over the course of a year, do a few (4-6) of the Great Books for that history time frame; do these books aloud together (perhaps try reading them popcorn style, "you read a page, I read a page"), and discuss/think about/write about the books.

 

 

 

 

We're finding the Spielvogel Human Odyssey pretty reasonable to use over the 4 years of high school. Short-ish sections (usually 2-4 pages long), each finishing with a quick 4-question review; illustrations/photos and "sidebar" articles on almost every page to add detail and interest. Below is a general breakdown of pages in our version (copyright 1999) over 3 years, leaving you a 4th year in high school for US history (or other specialized history):

 

Ancients (prehistory to 500AD) = book intro and 6 chapters = 230 pages (6.5 pages/week for 36 weeks)

Medieval/Explorers (400 to 1800) = 14 chapters = 450 pages (12.5 pages/week for 36 weeks)

Imperialism/20th Century (1800 to 1914) = 14 chapters = 445 pages (12.5 pages/week for 36 weeks)

 

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

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I recently heard Mary Schofield speak about "high school overview" at a homeschool conference, and she was extremely helpful. She stressed several times that once you hit high school you have VERY LITTLE time left with your student -- that you CAN'T do everything you thought you'd be able to do -- so you really need to think about/pray about and plan out what your priorities are for each student so you can choose wisely and get accomplished what is of REAL importance/value for you and for that child.

 

 

My own example: our younger son is 14yo and will be starting 9th grade this year. He really needs more self-discipline and focus in his character, and academically he is ahead in critical thinking/analysis skills, average elsewhere, and behind in writing, spelling, and some math.

 

So, our "character goals" for him dictate that we will be incorporating some life skills as part of his daily curriculum. Our academic priorities for him will be to "keep it simple" and really focus on strengthening his "3R"s, especially writing and spelling. How that translates specifically into history for this year: we will be doing 20th Century history (at both our sons' request), and since we will be doing history each year, we will make this year's history worth a 1/2 credit (and 1/2 credit = 75-90 hours of schooling). That 75-90 hours to be spent on history comes out to about 2 to 2-1/2 hours a week of time. We will divide that time approximately like this:

 

- 30 minutes = weekly reading from history textbook

- 60 minutes = weekly writing about history

(week 1 = 20 brief time line entries to cover a decade

(week 2 = a short (5 paragraph) "decade report" of major events)

(week 3 = a longer research paper (8-10 paragraphs) on a specific person/event from the decade being covered)

- 30 minutes = weekly reading historical fiction on his own (at or a little below his comfortable reading level)

- 30 minutes = as we can: Great Book together; or a documentary; or other supplement

 

 

Hope that helps and isn't confusing! Warmly, Lori D.

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Had another thought--

If you want to do Great Books, could he listen to some on tape? Give him the book to follow along.

 

When I taught adults to read (lo these many years ago!), one technique for increasing reading speed and fluency was to have me and the student read the passage together, at the same time, me reading at normal speed. Although it felt like I was dragging my student behind me, and he stumbled a bit, it was amazing--at the end of a few days, he could keep up really well. I think it's a method of teaching the eyes to track better. Since fluent readers don't read every letter, and switch during silent reading from "pronouncing" in their heads every word to "glossing over" the words, this method is really to improve reading aloud, but it seems to carry over somehow. (I'm not a reading researcher, but this is what I've heard.)

 

And, you could pick the easier books, too--Don't know if you are doing the Bible as an ancient text, but The Message is a paraphrase that is very clear and readable. Omnibus assigns several books of the Bible as ancient texts--so some classical curricula do include it on their lists. You could pick The Odyssey over the Illiad, read just one of the Theban Trilogy, and pick bits and pieces of other works, for instance. Do you have a reading list picked out?

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Wow! Lots of great responses for you and possibilities.

 

I'd thought I'd chime in with TOG advice, if it helps at all. I'm beginning with my 6th year, so have been through their cycle 1 1/2 times. For my rhetoric and dialectic students, they have become completely independent from one-on-one teaching during the weekdays, save the occasional clarification on assignments. On Thursdays, we meet for 2 hours to discussion their reading, accountability and thinking questions. At the beginning of the week, I print out their reading assignments on an Excel spreadsheet. They take Monday and Tuesdays to read - finishing up on Wednesday morning. During that time, they are answering their questions and working on geography and timeline assignments. Any papers assigned are also started. The discussion on Thursdays cement or clarify the concepts and rough drafts are due. I am always available to help during the week, but once they get in the groove, they really aren't ready for help until we meet on Thursdays. My part in the process is reading teachers notes and making sure books are ordered from the library or Amazon in advance and providing them the resources to work. Our discussions on Thurs are just that. Between my teachers notes and looking at the evaluations we all get together, discuss the material, gain world view perspective and it is rich.

 

I mainly do the history/geography/church history component as it is more convenient to do Literature with another venue. Their literature is great also, but this would an added effort for the teacher above and beyond weekly involvement with history.

 

Love the curriculum for its ease, once I got used to how it worked.

 

Pam

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