Anyone unschool?

[~Amanda~]

I know this is a classical board, and I've for the most part been attempting to follow that, but I'm really struggling with my son... he's gotten so far behind, he'll literally sit all day long to read a very small passage that he's supposed to read and then summarize.... I'm stressing, he's stressing, and I'm just thinking maybe this way isn't the right way for him so not sure where to go from here. I was thinking something more child-led would pique his interest more and keep him on task....

[TippyCanoe]

nm

[~Amanda~]

we have reading in history and science... there are multiple books for reference. Some are historical fiction and some are nonfiction. He resists any and all. If given a list of people to pick and choose to write on, he resists it all. he won't pick anything. he'll read life of fred, and he picks his own books to read for fun, but he simply wont do the work. and quite honestly his writing is not on par with "grade level".

[Chrysalis Academy]

I hope this isn't offensive to ask, but is brick and mortar school an option? If I had a dc who actively resists being taught by me (oh, wait, I do have one! ;)) then I would consider sending the child to school - for a season - and focus on preserving/improving the relationship. Perhaps homeschooling can work again in the future with this child. Perhaps not. What fits one child and/or child/parent dyad may not fit another.

Edited October 15, 2012 by rroberts707

[abbeyej]

we have reading in history and science... there are multiple books for reference. Some are historical fiction and some are nonfiction. He resists any and all. If given a list of people to pick and choose to write on, he resists it all. he won't pick anything. he'll read life of fred, and he picks his own books to read for fun, but he simply wont do the work. and quite honestly his writing is not on par with "grade level".

 

Well, how do you respond if you ask him to set the table or brush his teeth and he "resists"?

[~Amanda~]

we've done PS. its no longer an option.

 

he's punished by losing privileges but that's not working.

[Corraleno]

I know this is a classical board, and I've for the most part been attempting to follow that, but I'm really struggling with my son... he's gotten so far behind, he'll literally sit all day long to read a very small passage that he's supposed to read and then summarize.... I'm stressing, he's stressing, and I'm just thinking maybe this way isn't the right way for him so not sure where to go from here. I was thinking something more child-led would pique his interest more and keep him on task....

There is a lot of room between the two poles of classical and unschooling, and there are many ways to blend them successfully. What subjects are particularly difficult for him, and what curricula are you using for those? Are any subjects going well? What are his specific interests? What kinds of books does he like to read on his own?

 

I pulled my DS out of PS at 9, and he hated anything related to schoolwork. He was also waaaay behind (he'd basically repeated 3rd grade, and he was still behind). After a disastrous attempt at implementing WTM whole-hog, we went very unschooly for a year, then gradually added things back in. We do some subjects, like math & foreign languages, using standard curricula, but things like history and science remain interest-led. And, BTW, interest-led doesn't have to mean easy/fluffy/fun — in our home, interest-led tends to mean deep, engaging, and meaningful. The boy who hated school is now an 8th grader who does Greek & Latin (online w/Lukeion) by choice, reads Homer & Thucydides for fun, studies linguistics, is learning to program (Coursera Python course), and has a huge collection of Teaching Co courses on history and science.

 

Classical is not the only road to a deep and meaningful education, and WTM isn't even the only road to a classical education. There are LOTS of options which may be a better fit for your child.

 

Jackie

[Alte Veste Academy]

I know this is a classical board, and I've for the most part been attempting to follow that, but I'm really struggling with my son... he's gotten so far behind, he'll literally sit all day long to read a very small passage that he's supposed to read and then summarize.... I'm stressing, he's stressing, and I'm just thinking maybe this way isn't the right way for him so not sure where to go from here. I was thinking something more child-led would pique his interest more and keep him on task....

 

we have reading in history and science... there are multiple books for reference. Some are historical fiction and some are nonfiction. He resists any and all. If given a list of people to pick and choose to write on, he resists it all. he won't pick anything. he'll read life of fred, and he picks his own books to read for fun, but he simply wont do the work. and quite honestly his writing is not on par with "grade level".

 

I don't necessarily think unschooling is the answer, at least in the absence of knowing the genesis of the problem. What do you think is the root issue? There are so many possibilities and, honestly, most solutions are going to prove useless if they don't respond to the root issue. At its heart, do you think it is an issue of discipline, relationships, learning style (VSL, right brain, etc.), possible ADD or other challenges, curricula that is a poor fit, poor work habits (possibly as a result of low expectations...been there myself!)... You say you're both struggling. Have you had an open, unemotional talk about school? If not, I would start there. If you have, what did he offer up for a reason as to why he struggles with the work? And, I know the answer might be, "I don't know." :tongue_smilie:

 

There is a lot of room between the two poles of classical and unschooling, and there are many ways to blend them successfully. What subjects are particularly difficult for him, and what curricula are you using for those? Are any subjects going well? What are his specific interests? What kinds of books does he like to read on his own?

 

...

 

Classical is not the only road to a deep and meaningful education, and WTM isn't even the only road to a classical education. There are LOTS of options which may be a better fit for your child.

 

Jackie

 

:iagree: You can unschool or do classical. You can balance comfortably in the middle. The key is to find an effective path for both of you.

[quark]

we've done PS. its no longer an option.

 

It might also depend on when you pulled him out of PS. If it was very recent, I suggest deschooling first, and then gently adding subjects back in as the child feels ready to take it on.

 

We don't unschool 100%, neither are we extremely structured. It's a balance that I have to tweak from day to day, week to week. But at least 95% of what we choose to focus on is decided together, based on his interests. We experimented for the longest time with unschooling history. This year, when I tried to sneak in a text for history, it just didn't work. So we're going back to unschooling history and I can see that I shouldn't have messed with something that was already working so well in the first place.

 

My suggestion is to work with his interests, find books, documentaries, audiobooks etc centered on these interests and if output is a concern to you, ask him if he would like to work on a project -- building something (like a Rube Goldberg machine) or creating his own board game and writing down the rules for example. There's a lot of learning involved in these activities, as well as tons of fun. You need to get him excited to learn again so I definitely agree with you that an alternative direction is necessary. But you don't need it to be 100% unschooling for it to work (if that is a concern to you; if not a concern, just go with your gut feeling!) :001_smile:

[~Amanda~]

we did PS through third; hs a year, went back for fifth for half a year and pulled back out. the rest of last year was relaxed just to get back in the groove, though we did have this same problem last year w math. this year we are doing lof and he's just flying through it; loving it. it has to be the presentation of the work that makes him dig in his heels; no amount of talking or working through it or punishment will change him

[mumto2]

With my ds12 the history and literature part is hard work. I read all of it with him. We discuss using my questions. It is working but we definately are not moving quickly. It must be fun because dd14 joins us then does her all of her own work later. We are working our way through SL world history. The books are good, he would never choose to read them, but they are of interest. He is definately a math and science guy who loves LOF too.

 

A good friend is having sucess using the Young Indiana Jones series as a springboard. They watch an episode and the accompanying documentaries. Do a bit more research. Put something on paper. Her boys are exploring topics that they normally would drag their feet through.

 

The main advice here is meant to be to use what he likes and try to adapt it.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Is he VSL? Presentation is a huge factor in my VSL's willingness to do work.

 

Also, does he know how to write? When I pulled my dc out of ps I had assumed that since they were assigning writing assignments they had taught her how to write. They didn't. :glare: We had to go back to square one and learn how to write a sentence, a paragraph, how to write a summary, how to pick out important facts to include in a short report...WWE, IEW, and WWS have been invaluable in stepping us through the process.

 

I also had a huge hurdle to jump in getting dd to read grade level material and be able to understand what she was reading. She could read (decode), but not comprehend. I had to back way up on reading material. She is doing better now but she still has, and may always have a hard time with inferring, reading between the lines and making connections while reading. I have to choose her content reading material carefully. Perhaps your son is having a similar problem?

 

I agree with the others that unschooling isn't necessarily the answer for you. I did try super relaxed and unschooling with dd and it wasn't a good fit at all...I believe unschooling is only effective if you have a very self motivated child. One that is willing and eager to search out educational information and experiences on their own.

 

I would try to get to the root of why he is struggling before you start yo-yo'ing methods.

[~Amanda~]

that's very much him. in reading and writing. we are trying to go over basics again, but we are sruggling.

[Mandy in TN]

Yeah, I vote that if whatever you are doing isn't working, then you should definitely change it. However, I don't know about swinging from one extreme to another. There are other options.

 

As for as summarizing, if he isn't ready for it, take a step back and do something else. Read the passage to him, but before starting have him read the title and ask him if the title gives a clue as to what the passage will be about. Discuss this with him. (note that sometimes the answer is no.) Then, ask him to listen for something interesting or important. Ask him what he thought was interesting in the passage. If nothing was interesting, ask him what was important. If he can't tell you anything he thought was important, ask him to tell you 1 thing he remembers. He should be able to do this after one reading, but if not read it again. If something seems interesting or important to you, read the portion clearly and with emphasis. Once you find something interesting, important, or memorable have him copy it.

 

You could try Imitation in Writing or an IEW theme program. Try a composition program designed for schools like Voyages in English. Try a workbook from the parent teacher store. Skip composition for now and just do copy work with a Queen's homeschool themed copy work book.

 

Fwiw, summarizing is a difficult skill. Breaking that down into finding something interesting, important, or memorable may make it easier.

HTH-

Mandy

[5LittleMonkeys]

So, this is your 6th grader? What curricula are you using with him now?

 

If you could give us some more specifics maybe we can help you think of ways to help him build skills without getting frustrated.

 

Off the top of my head, based on the little bit you've told us I would do the following: If you are using the content subjects to work on writing skills you may want to stop that process for the time being and focus just on enjoying those content subjects through read alouds, documentaries, movies, experiments or projects. Use WWE to get him more comfortable with summarizing and perhaps try IEW to get him writing without him having to come up with his own content. Once he is comfortable with both of those programs you could move into WWS.

 

If you haven't already I would increase the amount he reads but make sure that it is a mixture of reading a little below his ability and a tad bit above his reading ability. The first will build comprehension and the second will stretch him. I'd also read aloud much more difficult material and talk to him about it. (Socratic discussion)

 

Look into VSL as well.

 

 

 

Be patient. I pulled dd out of ps toward the end of her 4th grade year and 4 years later I'm finally seeing some real growth and progress. It just takes some dc longer to reach certain skill levels and much longer to reach logic stage thinking and reasoning.

[~Amanda~]

my sig is utd ; using history Odyssey wws esbfls etc... yes he's 'sixth' grade...

[5LittleMonkeys]

If he is doing the writing in WWS I wouldn't do the writing in HO. It may just be too much. (?) Also, he just may not be able to do the types of writing HO is requiring of him...I seem to recall a biography assignment pretty early on.

 

How is he doing with the writing in WWS? Does he struggle with it as well?

[~Amanda~]

yeah his writing needs help. im trying. i feel inadequate

[thebacabunch]

Is it work that isn't independant that is the problem?

[~Amanda~]

no, its pretty much all independent,

[Mandy in TN]

no, its pretty much all independent,

 

If he is fine with parent led work and it is just independent work that is the problem, then I would say that he is pretty much a normal 10yo. :)

 

I know that isn't helpful, but he will outgrow it.

Mandy

[~Amanda~]

we do better with splitting it up; part parent, part independent; too much of me working with him and he just gets frustrated with "everything he gets wrong"

[shinyhappypeople]

I know this is a classical board, and I've for the most part been attempting to follow that, but I'm really struggling with my son... he's gotten so far behind, he'll literally sit all day long to read a very small passage that he's supposed to read and then summarize.... I'm stressing, he's stressing, and I'm just thinking maybe this way isn't the right way for him so not sure where to go from here. I was thinking something more child-led would pique his interest more and keep him on task....

 

:grouphug: I'm right there with you. My older DD sounds a lot like your son. I'm leaning strongly toward unschooling her (or something super-relaxed) as soon as we withdraw from the homeschool/charter program this February/March. Counting down the days... :001_smile:

 

Have you read the book "Free Range Learning"? I think you'd love it.

[Colleen in NS]

I'm a little confused - is it the 10 yods who is in sixth grade? And is it he who is using WWS?

 

If so, from what you gave us about his background makes me wonder if he is even ready for WWS. One, because of his age; two, because of possibly not having experience in p.s. with WWE-type skills - careful building up of narration skills; and three, because of his resistance to the point of not caring about lost privileges. At the beginning, WWS does have narration lessons, but they are more like review of previous years of having built up basic narration skills. Then WWS zooms on ahead. I feel that if a student is still shaky on narration, WWS is too advanced.

 

If this is the case, my suggestion would be to have a look at one of the levels of WWE. You have two options: use individually-leveled workbooks with all the work laid out for a year at a time, or use the all-encompassing four-level book as *your* guide to teaching him narration skills through your own (or his, with your guidance as far as quality of writing - the goal is to imitate and learn from good writing) choices of books.

 

hth

[albeto]

We don't do any formal curriculum (or informal). My kids are fully self-directed ("unschooled"). In my experience, it works nicely to back off the expectations slowly, not all at once. Find the thing that creates the most stress, decide for yourself what your ultimate goal is, and see if you can't reach that goal through an alternative approach.

[fluffybunny]

he'll literally sit all day long to read a very small passage that he's supposed to read and then summarize

 

I can relate to that! My son has HFA and ADHD as well. You can't just leave them to work on their own; it's totally hands on. I would begin by reading that passage to him and then get him to summarize either in handwriting or typing, and if that is a problem, then get him to verbally dictate to you. After he has mastered verbal narration, ie after 6 months of perfect narration, get him to write it, or at least the first sentence of the narration. Then reading the passage, you read one paragraph, and he reads the next. Eventually you work up to him reading the passage aloud to you, but it would probably take at least a year.

 

I know how tiring it is, but it's worth it in the end. Mine is now 12 and he reads the passage aloud to me and types his narration. We're half way thru WWS and there are no more narrations, but I still sit on the couch with him before he starts work and we read the morning's assignment in turns, and then I sit behind him as he types.

 

The scaffolding is essential when they're like this, and eventually you take parts of the scaffolding away.

 

We're getting closer to the part in WWS where he is supposed to read a long story by himself (Rikki Tikki). I'm still not sure if he will do it if left to himself, or that I will be reading half of it to him while stopping when the story gets exciting, then handing it over to him. Or if I will have to read the entire story to him. We'll see in a few weeks! ....

[~Amanda~]

he doesn't respond to being read to; neither do I actually. we've tried that. we've tried having him read.

[Oakblossoms]

I would love to be more classical but I keep getting outnumbered. We're definitely relaxed.

 

What do you want and what do you need?

 

Do you need a break?

Is your relationship suffering?

Do you think you need more tools in your toolbox?

How well does he read and spell?

What does he want to do with his days?

[~Amanda~]

I don't know what I want. or need. I need this to work. I'm out of ideas and don't really know anyone irl to help w ideas.

[albeto]

What does he enjoy doing? Given unrestricted free time, what would he gravitate towards?

 

And, what are your ultimate goals for him?

 

Unschooling isn't necessarily the "answer" for you, although it was for us. It requires a lot of hands-on involvement from the parent, lots of research, lots of exploration, lots of experimenting, lots of patience. One should become familiar with the philosophy and the practical application from other unschoolers to know how to create a successful environment. However, you might find tweaking your environment a bit will give you the insight you need to offer that same sense of success without going whole-hog. That's why I asked what he likes to do with his free time.

[~Amanda~]

video games. any and all. its been an issue for a while.

[Ellie]

I know this is a classical board, and I've for the most part been attempting to follow that, but I'm really struggling with my son... he's gotten so far behind, he'll literally sit all day long to read a very small passage that he's supposed to read and then summarize.... I'm stressing, he's stressing, and I'm just thinking maybe this way isn't the right way for him so not sure where to go from here. I was thinking something more child-led would pique his interest more and keep him on task....

But see, if you unschool, you aren't worrying about his being "on task," because his task is whatever he is working on, which may look like nothing valuable to you. And you have to be willing to let his interest be piqued by whatever it is. Are you ready for that?

 

*I* would not allow a child to sit all day over *anything.* Either what you're using isn't the right thing for him, or you need to tweak it and be more personally involved. What, specifically, do you think he's "behind" in?

[albeto]

video games. any and all. its been an issue for a while.

 

Which video games does he gravitate towards the most? Can you spend some time playing these games with him? Let him mentor you, bond over this part of his life, see what aspect about these games really energizes him. It's a totally age-appropriate interest and likely inspired by some quality that you can explore in other ways.

 

In the unschooling philosophy, unless writing is a primary interest, it is a tool to be used to gain something. When he wants something that requires writing, he will be internally motivated to learn to do it. How well he does it will depend on his character and his skills. Is he a perfectionist, is he lazy by nature, does he compartmentalize easily, does he pay attention to detail? What can he do easily? What can he do with help? What does he struggle with? Hanging out with him while he shows you the things he enjoys most (video games) will help you see what kind of character and which skills he has. It will help you help him by mentoring him according to his needs as they arise naturally.

[~Amanda~]

I feel like I am not equipped to be this child's mother.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I feel like I am not equipped to be this child's mother.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Amanda, I'm getting kind of worried about you here. Are you OK? Not your son, you? Your responses make me feel like you have given up, but so many people here are willing to help...and commiserate. Can we help you feel less hopeless? Do you need to vent? You can vent big here. We will listen and try to help. Please let us help. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Another Lynn]

we have reading in history and science... there are multiple books for reference. Some are historical fiction and some are nonfiction. He resists any and all. If given a list of people to pick and choose to write on, he resists it all. he won't pick anything. he'll read life of fred, and he picks his own books to read for fun, but he simply wont do the work. and quite honestly his writing is not on par with "grade level".

 

That's great! That's great that he reads for fun and that he's enjoying life of fred. FWIW, my oldest two are boys, age 13 (almost 14) and age 10. The oldest is a great reader, but the 10yo only reads what I make him (fwiw, he is stronger in math). The oldest, though he's a great reader, his writing is below grade level too. We're working on it. WWS is not the only way to get there. If your ds is a reluctant writer, maybe an IEW theme-based writing book would be a better fit? I tried WWS with my oldest and it just wasn't a path we could continue on. Also, I may be way off base here, but is 10yo a little young for 6th grade? My 10 will turn 11 in December and he's 5th grade this year. I'm not suggesting you "fail" your ds, or even "hold him back" at this stage.... but maybe relax your expectations a bit? If he's doing 5th grade level work, I'm not sure I'd consider him behind, jmho. Also, I'll say this... my two ds are not really interested in lots of self-motivated learning. When they were younger, I had hopes we would be that way. But we're not. I give them assignment sheets every Monday (some of the work is with me and some is independent), and we dig in and knock it out. They are very glad for some screentime as much as they can get it. My response (right or wrong) is to keep us very busy with extra curriculars so their available screen-time is less and less. I don't have a good answer about love of screen time.

 

There is a lot of room between the two poles of classical and unschooling, and there are many ways to blend them successfully. What subjects are particularly difficult for him, and what curricula are you using for those? Are any subjects going well? What are his specific interests? What kinds of books does he like to read on his own?

 

 

<snip>

 

Classical is not the only road to a deep and meaningful education, and WTM isn't even the only road to a classical education. There are LOTS of options which may be a better fit for your child.

 

Jackie

 

:iagree:

 

I find myself going further and further away from classical (by anyone's definition). I'm not a natural teacher. I'm not great at using our content subjects to also address skills. My brain just can't handle two objectives at once, LOL. My 10 year old is still part of my morning time with the youngers even though he is very capable of reading for himself the books I've chosen to read aloud to all of them (all of them except my oldest). We cover Bible, history, science, and memory work this way. Then we split up and I work one on one with each one on skill work that requires me. They have some subjects they can do alone.... phonics or spelling workbooks, quiet reading, piano practicing, chess, whatever. I meet with each one to do math, grammar, writing, Latin (only one of them), and reading (the 7 yo and the 4yo).

 

I don't know if that helps at all.... I guess I'm just saying, gently, maybe you're expecting too much of him? And maybe too much of yourself? I hope I'm not sounding critical.... you definitely don't need or deserve any criticism.... but if we can help you find a way .... where the yoke is lighter but you're still moving him forward toward your goals for him... we would be glad to help do that! :grouphug:

 

ETA: Just want to clarify, that of course you don't have to read aloud to him if that hasn't worked very well, I was just giving you an example of our routine to try to say I don't think our day looks terribly rigorous or classical, yet I still feel we are covering our bases.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Another Lynn

[~Amanda~]

I had a post and lost it. its hard typing on my phone; I am struggling and he's struggling and I'm tired of an unhappy house.

 

also he's 11 I just haven't updated their ages

[fluffybunny]

It does sound like you're very down, and sometimes when we're depressed we don't have the energy to do anything or change anything. Perhaps you really do need to put him back into a bricks and mortar school for a while, as others have suggested; at least until you can find the energy to do it again.

 

A friend of mine told me once "you've got to love homeschooling, you've got to be a bit of an intellectual and love books with a passion, researching and intellectual pursuits" .... plus have all the physical and mental energy that takes! If this doesn't sound like you, or if you think you have depression ...... then perhaps make some big changes! :-) <hugs>

[~Amanda~]

PS is not an option. not now. I'd like to think not ever. I just have to learn to be OK with not sticking to the plan. after the first week I wondered why I even thought planning the year was a good idea.

 

this is the child I constantly struggle with. the one that is not easy for me to get along with. I posted about him I think last year ; he is just constant test of my patience and motherly love. and I'm trying to find that balance that lets everyone be happy with and enjoy hoe school is going. I'm just out of ideas on hoe to do that.

[Country Mouse]

Have you listened to SWB's lecture on homeschooling the real child? I found that one very helpful.

 

:iagree:

 

She offers lots of great ideas for doing things differently.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Amanda - I just read your blog. You've been struggling for a long time.:grouphug:

 

First, I know your kids wanted to go back to public school some time ago...do they still want to? Is that part of what might be fueling this son's unwillingness to do his work? If so, would it be possible for you to send just him back to school for the rest of the year so you can see if he does better academically there, or so he can see that the grass isn't greener? Perhaps you both could use a break from the student/teacher scenario? (edited...I just saw your above post about ps not being an option so disregard the above.)

 

Second, if the above is not the case:

have you ruled out any learning disabilities?

 

Is he compliant with most things, just not schoolwork (meaning, is this a behavior issue or strictly an academic one)?

 

Have you determined if he is VSL?

 

Have you determined his learning style?

 

Have you gotten rid of his ability to play video games yet (some children border on addiction and can't focus on anything else as long as they know that stimulation is waiting for them)? My own son's willingness to engage in learning increases exponentially when I take away all possibility of screen time during the week.

 

Does he struggle in all subjects or is it mostly writing?

 

Does he work well when you sit with him and gently move him forward or is he resistant to your involvement at all?

 

You mention that when he gets corrected or his work criticized that he just shuts down. That he shuts down when asked to choose something to write about. Basically, it seems when he is asked for any type of output he resists. Have you looked at ADD Inattentive?

 

I think your son may be similar to my dd between the ages of 9 and 12. She was resistant to all things academic but not motivated enough to be unschooled. We struggled mightily. Holding her back a year, my willingness to customize to her LDs, VSL, and tendencies toward ADD Inattentive, plus a leap in maturity and focusing on basics has proven to be the magic combination to having a successfull year so far this year.

 

However, answering the above questions might help to better understand what you are dealing with and allow us to offer more specific suggestions.

 

 

With only the info you've shared so far, at this point I would recommend stopping all academics for about a month, but DO NOT let him spend his time on the video games, in fact i would just remove them altogether for awhile. Get him lots of books that he wants to read, building or art supplies, access to great documentaries/science and history programs, some science kits that he could do on his own, a microscope, nature journal, and a couple composition notebooks, some great biographies and a good history encyclopedia. Tell him that for 4 hours a day he has to do something constructive / learning based. Then just watch him. See what he does. For the first week he may lay on the floor and stare at the ceiling...let him. If he has no access to video games and can't spend those 4 hours just playing with toys I'd wager to bet that he will eventually start learning.

 

This is what I did with dd, and what led me to be able to evaluate what direction I needed to take with her. During this time I didn't direct her unless she asked for help and I didn't criticize or correct anything. This won't FIX anything but it might help you relax and see past the struggles and find some spark in your son that you could work with.

 

:grouphug: I know how hard and disheartening it is to try so hard to do what you think is best for your child, and have them seem to fight against you at every step. :grouphug:

Edited October 21, 2012 by 5LittleMonkeys

[~Amanda~]

I've done the learning style testing, but I don't remember now off the top of my head. i'm at work; working long hours on the weekend. He's had the games taken away from him for a while; when he was in PS, we quickly learned that if he played games during the week, he got in trouble at school the next day. so it was weekends only, and then that was what we took away from him whenever he messed up with something. He hasn't had the privlidge of regular video game play in nearly a year, or longer, for some reason or another. Mostly because he is so obsessive with them; he won't stop to eat, or shower, or anything if left to his own devices (we discovered this little tidbit one thanksgiving weekend holiday)

 

honestly, I haven't done any kind of testing for LDs. he is a little bit OCD, and he totally fits the bill for gifted, quite honestly. what you've suggested above is what I've been thinking about doing with him; just stopping it all, and then saying "ok, you have to pick one thing to learn about in science and history, etc" and then go from there. He does "ok" with the WWS, he's very rudimentary in his sentence formation. Like, my DD does the WWS as well, she's 7th, and she's doing SO WELL. she will practically have the same thing as the examples in the teacher book gives, its so great. he's just my child that I've always struggled with, and I don't want that struggle anymore.

 

The wanting to go back to PS was last year; they went back, both of them. and by christmas, they were asking to come back home. That's the reason PS is no longer an option; I'm not going to do this, homeschool one year go back to PS for half a year and remember why we hated it. they were PSd, then HSd, then PSd, and neither lasted the year for PS. we're sticking with HSing. And my DH isn't opposed to getting involved and helping, I just literally do not know what to do with the boy anymore.

 

Usually, he does his stuff very quickly (anything. homework, chores, etc) so he can do the video games... but now that has been taken away from him for a while, he has no motivation I guess, but I hate to give it back to him now because of all the issues we've had lately. He's been prone to sneaking (when my 4 yo plays, he will stop doing what he's doing to "watch" and "help" her).

 

i'm just, I don't know. depleted.

[Corraleno]

honestly, I haven't done any kind of testing for LDs. he is a little bit OCD, and he totally fits the bill for gifted, quite honestly. what you've suggested above is what I've been thinking about doing with him; just stopping it all, and then saying "ok, you have to pick one thing to learn about in science and history, etc" and then go from there.

You may be dealing with a combination of gifted, VSL, and maybe some mild LDs — have you read the Eides' blog? They are neurologists who specialize in kids who are "2e" — usually a combination of gifted/dyslexic/VSL. It's well worth spending an hour or two poking around and reading their articles and blog posts. VSL kids tends to find it very difficult to focus on subjects that are presented in a very verbal, piecemeal, parts-to-whole way (like the classical/WTM approach to language arts), while becoming totally immersed — sometimes to the point of obsession — in things that are very visual/spatial/interactive.

 

The good news is that when you find the right approach (generally more immersive and whole-to-parts) and key into their interests, these kids tend to truly take off (and it sounds like that's what's happened with LOF and math). That has definitely been my experience with DS. Forget "school" for a while, but give him lots of interesting, hands-on, visual-spatial activities. If he likes computers, let him go to the Scratch website and teach himself programming as he designs his own games. Let him play around on Khan Academy, sign him up on this "maker" site for kids and let him do the challenges and earn badges, get him a SnapCircuits kit, get him Mindstorms for Christmas, let him try to solve engineering problems on Fantastic Contraption, etc.

 

What does he read for fun? Harry Potter and Percy Jackson have turned many reluctant readers into avid ones. There are lots more adventure series like those, with exciting action and boy heroes around that age. The key is finding books that allow a child to get into that "zone" where they disappear into the story and forget where they are. Once they get that experience, they tend to be hooked! Percy Jackson started my DS down a reading road that led to the Iliad and Odyssey (and begging to take Greek!) in a surprisingly short time.

 

Honestly, once you stop trying to hammer your little square peg into a round hole, and find out what gets him excited and makes him want to learn, you'll discover that in many ways these kids are the easiest to homeschool — all you have to do is hold on for the ride!

 

Jackie

[5LittleMonkeys]

I know what depleted feels like. :grouphug: Dd13 is that child for me. Returning to ps was not an option for us either, even at our lowest point, so I know that feeling of hopelessness. If I had to do it over again I would do what I described above much sooner than I did. It would have saved so much heartache.

 

I would just let it all go for now. Let go of the worrying about grade level, getting behind, getting caught up...none of that is as important as your son's well being and your relationship with him.

 

As far as the video games - I would still restrict him from them for now, but in a week or two, once he has shown that he is willing to pursue some constructive learning on his own, you could reward an hour of screen time for every 4 hours he spends on activities.

 

Also, keep up a dialogue with him on what you are doing. I think this was really beneficial to dd. We talked frequently about my determination to figure out a method that would work well for her. She knew I wouldn't give up on her. We also talked about LDs, ADD, and learning styles, which helped her understand why she struggled, why she wasn't on grade level, and why grade level didn't matter to us. I also told her that I didn't care that she wasn't academic, that I didn't expect her to give any more than her best even if her best wasn't an A. She has amazing talents in other areas (art) and that is where we put a lot of focus and energy.

 

Give him some time Amanda. He is young still and in a year or two he may really surprise you. I never would have thought that the girl who fell apart at the mere mention of doing schoolwork 2 years ago would be learning Japanese, but it is her favorite subject this year. She is motivated to do it because it ties into her passion for anime art. That's the key with these kinds of kids...find what ignites them.

 

:grouphug: again sweety. I know you need them.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Honestly, once you stop trying to hammer your little square peg into a round hole, and find out what gets him excited and makes him want to learn, you'll discover that in many ways these kids are the easiest to homeschool — all you have to do is hold on for the ride!

 

Jackie

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[~Amanda~]

thanks for the encouragement Aimee.

 

he has read most of harry potter and Percy Jackson; he really fell hard into the Cirque de freak series; I think he read something like 10 books in a month or 6 weeks. for his bday my sister gave him another series by that same author; he's been caught shirking school work for reading that. it feels silly to be getting onto him for reading.

[Corraleno]

I know what depleted feels like. :grouphug: Dd13 is that  child for me. Returning to ps was not an option for us either, even at our lowest point, so I know that feeling of hopelessness. If I had to do it over again I would do what I described above much sooner than I did. It would have saved so much heartache.

 

I would just let it all go for now. Let go of the worrying about grade level, getting behind, getting caught up...none of that is as important as your son's well being and your relationship with him.

 

As far as the video games - I would still restrict him from them for now, but in a week or two, once he has shown that he is willing to pursue some constructive learning on his own, you could reward an hour of screen time for every 4 hours he spends on activities.

 

Also, keep up a dialogue with him on what you are doing. I think this was really beneficial to dd. We talked frequently about my determination to figure out a method that would work well for her. She knew I wouldn't give up on her. We also talked about LDs, ADD, and learning styles, which helped her understand why she struggled, why she wasn't on grade level, and why grade level didn't matter to us. I also told her that I didn't care that she wasn't academic, that I didn't expect her to give any more than her best even if her best wasn't an A. She has amazing talents in other areas (art) and that is where we put a lot of focus and energy.

 

Give him some time Amanda. He is young still and in a year or two he may really surprise you. I never would have thought that the girl who fell apart at the mere mention of doing schoolwork 2 years ago would be learning Japanese, but it is her favorite subject this year. She is motivated to do it because it ties into her passion for anime art. That's the key with these kinds of kids...find what ignites them.

 

:grouphug: again sweety. I know you need them.

 

 

 

I thought the same thing about DS! This dyslexic, ADD boy who used to sob over reading & summarizing a single page of some low-level reader is happily devoting hours and hours to translating Greek, buzzing with excitement because "this is the real thing, mom — Thucydides!"

 

Amanda, I know this might sound scary, but please listen to what Aime & I are saying, because I promise that things will get much better once you and your DS are on the same page. On your blog you wrote that there's no one else exactly like you or your kids, and no one who can tell you how to make this work for you or your family, and that's true — but there are others of us who have been down a very similar road, and can point you in a much better direction, and who can offer success stories to give you hope.

 

In a year or two, I bet you will be posting the same sort of things that Aime and I are posting, and you'll be saying that you can't believe the transformation, and you only wish you'd made the change sooner!

 

:grouphug:

 

Jackie

[~Amanda~]

thanks ladies. I'm actually looking forward to Monday.

[Another Lynn]

thanks ladies. I'm actually looking forward to Monday.

 

Yay! I'm so glad that Aimee and Jackie could give you some btdt advice. Keeping you in my thoughts as you start a new approach.

[Soror]

The good news is that when you find the right approach (generally more immersive and whole-to-parts) and key into their interests, these kids tend to truly take off (and it sounds like that's what's happened with LOF and math). That has definitely been my experience with DS. Forget "school" for a while, but give him lots of interesting, hands-on, visual-spatial activities. If he likes computers, let him go to the Scratch website and teach himself programming as he designs his own games. Let him play around on Khan Academy, sign him up on this "maker" site for kids and let him do the challenges and earn badges, get him a SnapCircuits kit, get him Mindstorms for Christmas, let him try to solve engineering problems on Fantastic Contraption, etc.

 

 

Jackie

 

I have to insert a thank you in this thread. The Eide's blog is very interesting. I can see my ds in these descriptions. I'm always trying to figure out how to best teach towards him.

 

fwiw him and dh both love fantastic contraption :) They are so much alike and dh felt traditional school was such a failure for him and I'm working to make sure not to repeat that mistake! Mindstorm is on our wish list and I've been waiting for his reading is solid enough for Scratch- I think it might finally be there. I need to watch more of your suggestions!

Edited October 21, 2012 by soror