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Private school pushes thru curriculum, not teaching kids


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I finally got my password and can post again!

 

Here's the problem. Last year in 7th grade, we took my son out of the public junior high because he was not being challenged, the teachers were poor, and his friends were getting into fights. Still, he got good grades and loves learning. He has tested at the high school or post high school level on the SAT-10 for years. He did well enough on the ACT to get into the NUMATS program. We homeschooled for the last half of 7th grade and enjoyed it. We had previously homeschooled in a similar way in 5th grade, but he wanted to try junior high.

 

But he was lonely during homeschooling. So we decided to try a local private Christian school K-12, that is supposed to have a "college prep" type curriculum and is definitely more rigorous than public schools. But it's not what we thought it would be. The pluses are that it's safe, it's a new building, the classes are small. Mosr teachers are congenial.

 

The downside is that the teachers are plowing through the curriculum, but not stopping to make sure the kids know the material. They never review homework, but it's usually graded. There are 6 new kids in a group of 24, but they're not helping them get up to speed, unless the kids stay after school for short tutoring. The parents have begun to tell me how they have to teach the kids at night. Homework is routinely 3 hours at night and often 5 -7 hours on the weekend.

 

My son is doing the homework and really trying. But it is becoming too much for him. His grades are faltering considerably, which has never happened. The materials are not difficult for him. But if he didn't learn it in class, he isn't always asking for help. He doesn't have enough time to digest what he's learning either.

 

So, we are debating how long we stay at a private school that is rather expensive place to be getting poor grades. There are other facts, but maybe someone would have a perspective or questions that would be helpful in our thoughts. Thanks!

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Have you had any conferences with the teacher or the principal? I hate to say it, but homework is one big reason my kids aren't in Christian school. If we weren't homeschooling, that is all I would want for them, but every school I hear about around our location gives lots of homework. Many do it, I think, trying to appear rigorous and improve test scores as an advertising standpoint.

 

As far as the loneliness, are there homeschool support groups you could participate in? Are there friends he could arrange to do things with after school? It sounds like homeschooling is the best thing for him academically. I pray you will figure out what works best for him!

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I pulled my 2 out of private school this year and I will never look back. I did place one into a public school that I had a terrible experience with when my son was there...but my daughter is loving it and her education is amazing. She is not getting killed with homework and she is learning far beyond what she learned in private school. They offer a higher level of classes as well.

 

My son had a terrible experience with the same school and was homeschooled all of middle school. My DD on the other hand is doing amazing. I guess it all has to do with your specific child.

 

I feel "I" made the right decision for my kids and I personally didnt like paying for an education that I didnt feel was superior. That was a huge problem for us. I am much happier this year and we have accountability again with the school.

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I would also talk to other parents and the school first. Parent complaints changed my DD's homework load from social studies, spelling, math and reading to reading and spelling only, four nights a week. We didn't find the workload especially hard even with the extras but enough other parents did and the change was made. You won't know what's possible until you start talking to other parents and voicing your concerns.

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Thanks for the input on certain kinds of Christian schools. That parallels the kind of school I think this -- one with lots of homework.

 

I have spoken with several of the parents at the school. Most acknowledge that there's lots of homework and then proceed to explain how they kind of work around that. One way is they have all the books and teachers manuals at home and work through them. It seems like an interesting approach. The school has actually cut down the amount of homework, the parents say.

 

We went to the Open House and met all the teachers. We are going to have a new family meeting with the head of the school.

 

I guess, however, I am still confused how my son can do so well in other learning situations and come to this school and not connect. We have talked about it, but I can't figure it out. He is having more problems adjusting than I thought he would. The Christian environment is making him uncomfortable, even tho we are Christians. He is confused that the teachers don't seem to go over materials.

 

Maybe we will go back to homeschooling.

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Yes, the teachers are credentialed through the state or Christian teacher accreditation.

 

I finally found something that explains how some Christian schools view homework. Here's a link that I first found in a Texas Christian school that's from The Ambrose School in Meridian, Idaho, which bills itself as "The Boise Valley's K-12 Classical Christian School."

 

http://www.theambroseschool.org/documents/document-library/

 

Scroll down to the document named "Homework."

 

This school's approach should be of interest to Well Trained Mind forum readers as it takes the Classical approach but in a private Christian setting. I wonder how you all think it reflects or parallels how you homeschool?

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I actually found that article really interesting in a confirmational sort of way. I believe that's how DD's school sees HW (in general) and the FAQ answers really align well with my own thoughts on the subject.

 

In general, homework doesn't bother me. I don't see it as 'my job' or 'my work'. I see myself as a facilitator. I don't 'do' DD's projects, illustrations, artwork or research. I keep the usualy supplies handy for whatever comes up and leave the execution (mostly) to her. Sure, I make sure she turns to the right page and completes the assignment but I do not make sure she completes everything on the page or gets every answer correct. She's learning to be responsible and there will be slip ups.

 

To that end...Dear Teacher: please do not put a note on the home work that says "Mom: Please check this." Um, what makes you think I didn't? I *want* you bleed all over the page when DD rushes through the directions and gets every.single.answer.wrong. And how will you know that she's struggling with something if you never see her errors? :glare: Raising a self-directed , responsible learner requires a team effort. I can talk 'til I'm blue about this or that but until there's a natural consequence outside of our home (be it gymnastics or school), it rarely sinks in.

 

Now, DD has a social studies test on Thursday (they've had mid-winter break since Friday afternoon and don't go back until tomorrow). I told her, hmm, it's probably a good idea for you to review your SS work, read the study guide, and prepare for your test. "Naaah, she said. I can just wing it." ...and she ran off to play. We'll see how that works out for her. :lol:

Edited by Sneezyone
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Yes, the teachers are credentialed through the state or Christian teacher accreditation.

 

I finally found something that explains how some Christian schools view homework. Here's a link that I first found in a Texas Christian school that's from The Ambrose School in Meridian, Idaho, which bills itself as "The Boise Valley's K-12 Classical Christian School."

 

http://www.theambroseschool.org/documents/document-library/

 

Scroll down to the document named "Homework."

 

This school's approach should be of interest to Well Trained Mind forum readers as it takes the Classical approach but in a private Christian setting. I wonder how you all think it reflects or parallels how you homeschool?

 

 

Is the school associated with Doug Wilson at all?

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I think three hours of homework a night is too much. I would be unimpressed if I routinely had to take three hours work home and not spend any time with my kids.

 

The link was interesting though. I think perhaps Singapore needs to reduce its homework.

Edited by kiwik
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I wondered that too about a Doug Wilson connection. I don't know, but it looks like this area of Idaho is a hotbed of rethinking reformed Christianity.

 

Totally separately, I have been reading The Dragon's Tooth, the latest series by his son, N.D. Wilson, called The Ashtown Burials. I loved his 100 Cupboard series, didn't like Leepike Ridge at all (which was taught in DS's 5th grade class). They're interesting middle school/YA books that kids might like if they enjoyed Percy Jackson series, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe series and fantasy adventure books like that.

 

The point about bringing 3 hours of work from home is a good one. That ideas lurks in the back of my mind. Yet many do bring that much work home and I have done that in the past. The question seems to be why kids need that much homework. Things have improved a little with DS's homework but it still seems like evenings are essentially homeschooling. I know if we go to homeschooling he will be lonely because we just have not had lots of good experiences finding positive groups for him unless we drive 50 miles. A few good experiences, but not enough probably for him.

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The point about bringing 3 hours of work from home is a good one. That ideas lurks in the back of my mind. Yet many do bring that much work home and I have done that in the past. The question seems to be why kids need that much homework. Things have improved a little with DS's homework but it still seems like evenings are essentially homeschooling. I know if we go to homeschooling he will be lonely because we just have not had lots of good experiences finding positive groups for him unless we drive 50 miles. A few good experiences, but not enough probably for him.

 

Does this include reading? For example, if English class is covering Dickens, the book will have to be read at home, not at school, correct? So literature reading can take up chunk of the homework time. Another legitimate homework would be essays. Growing up all writing assignments were done at home, nothing at school. I don't know how it's done here, but I could see essays being assigned as homework. Math homework should be just additional practice if a child needs it. Also, assuming science and history classes are run as lectures (mine were), a student would need to read up textbooks in preparation. So, I could see several hours taken up reading as prep for lit, science and history classes +writing.

Disregard my answer if the homework is lots of silly spreadsheets (my kid has to write out spelling words 6 times every week for homework even though he can already spell them) or type of work that should usually be accomplished at school. Homework should be meaningful.

Also, 3 hours is a middle school, high school homework load, right?

It's frustrating. I am not looking forward to it in upper grades.

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Roadrunner makes good points. I am not against homework, per se. I agree that long stretches of time, at home, are good for reading, researching and writing papers, etc. Homework should be meaningful, a way to reflect on what you learned. There should also be time, I think, for a chance to go over notes. We have been explaining this with DS.

 

What's frustrating it that at this school there are lots of little bits of homework that are all adding up to three hours or more. It *seems* good, but it's the relentlessness that has us concerned.

 

We are helping him reconsider where he's studying and how he does homework. These are all good things to learn. We are working on getting assignments written out clearly -- which was not a problem when we homeschooled, but has become a huge problem in school.

 

Still, my point that I return to, is if he's doing the homework diligently, understanding it quite well (we know because we quiz him), in other words, following along with what the teachers specifically ask, and then not doing well on the tests, that's a problem. Is it him? It is the school? It is a wrong fit? Can we all adapt better? That's what we're trying to figure out. Everyone's thoughts are helpful and it's good to know how people adapt to homework and afterschooling in junior high and high school.

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Still, my point that I return to, is if he's doing the homework diligently, understanding it quite well (we know because we quiz him), in other words, following along with what the teachers specifically ask, and then not doing well on the tests, that's a problem. Is it him? It is the school? It is a wrong fit? Can we all adapt better? That's what we're trying to figure out. Everyone's thoughts are helpful and it's good to know how people adapt to homework and afterschooling in junior high and high school.

 

If the tests are only on what the teachers specifically ask, than it could be a retention problem, kind of like the "understand today forget tomorrow" syndrome.

 

If the test cover the topic but more than what the teacher specifically ask, than your child would have to revise the entire topic.

 

For example in sciences, my tutors would highlight the key points while explaining everything. Just understanding the key points would get you a C or D pass grade. Understanding and putting more thought in the entire topic would get you a A or Distinction.

 

I find that highlighters and post it flags are very useful at that stage for me.

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The downside is that the teachers are plowing through the curriculum, but not stopping to make sure the kids know the material. They never review homework, but it's usually graded. There are 6 new kids in a group of 24, but they're not helping them get up to speed, unless the kids stay after school for short tutoring. The parents have begun to tell me how they have to teach the kids at night. Homework is routinely 3 hours at night and often 5 -7 hours on the weekend.

 

It may be that this school has an underlying concept that, "Those who can keep up, do; those who can't, don't." Some private schools tend to consider this their working definition of "rigor."

 

One other thought while reading through your posts: If I were his parent, I would insist on seeing the TESTS (after he's taken them, of course). If he is studying diligently, you are quizzing him at home, he's doing the assignments, following along in class, and still not doing well on the tests, then I would want to see the tests. Perhaps they are poorly constructed, perhaps they are poorly graded, perhaps they cover content that was NOT taught or assigned prior to testing. That's worth looking into, I think.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Sahamamama
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The Ambrose School in Meridian, Idaho

 

http://www.theambroseschool.org/documents/document-library/

 

Scroll down to the document named "Homework."

 

 

 

Well, I hear all their exalted talk about "disipline" [sic] and "thoughout" [sic], but what really shocks me about that article is the number of errors it contains. :001_huh: Didn't anyone proofread it? :tongue_smilie:(Sorry, it's my pet peeve when someone is trying to sound so lofty, but their writing is full of errors.)

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The reason he is at a Christian school is because there are no private schools in our area beyond third grade. So we are kind of stuck in that way. Thanks for the suggestion. Wish it was different.

 

I am just going to toss this out as well. Turns out many of the parents have bought the test books and answer keys for the textbooks. One girl even shared the answer guide for the math book with DS as they were working on math homework while waiting for the chorus to begin rehearsing after school. Parents have specifically told me that many of them do this. Weird, right, or not?

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Your son's bright, so you seem baffled that he's struggling. If you're like me, when he's HS'ed you focus on understanding and he probably thrives on it right? One possibility is that he is struggling because the heavy load of material is meant to be memorized but not really deeply comprehended. Perhaps it is a style that doesn't match him or his strengths. And if that is the case, IMO his desire to understand rather than regurgitate vast quantities of material will only help him as his education continues.

 

I read one study that said the biggest issue with college students is that they come in prepared to spit back volumes of material but they've never had to think before.

 

Just one more possibility.

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The reason he is at a Christian school is because there are no private schools in our area beyond third grade. So we are kind of stuck in that way. Thanks for the suggestion. Wish it was different.

 

I am just going to toss this out as well. Turns out many of the parents have bought the test books and answer keys for the textbooks. One girl even shared the answer guide for the math book with DS as they were working on math homework while waiting for the chorus to begin rehearsing after school. Parents have specifically told me that many of them do this. Weird, right, or not?

 

There are more lessons learned in some schools than the lessons that come in books. I wouldn't want my child to learn this, especially in a "Christian" setting.

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Turns out many of the parents have bought the test books and answer keys for the textbooks. One girl even shared the answer guide for the math book with DS as they were working on math homework while waiting for the chorus to begin rehearsing after school. Parents have specifically told me that many of them do this. Weird, right, or not?

 

My dad bought answer keys because he was not "capable" of checking my school work. However he would not allow me access to any of the answer keys. So I don't think it odd for parents to buy test books and answer keys. Handing the answer guide over to their child would not be good for their child.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thanks for the input on certain kinds of Christian schools. That parallels the kind of school I think this -- one with lots of homework.

 

I have spoken with several of the parents at the school. Most acknowledge that there's lots of homework and then proceed to explain how they kind of work around that. One way is they have all the books and teachers manuals at home and work through them. It seems like an interesting approach. The school has actually cut down the amount of homework, the parents say.

 

We went to the Open House and met all the teachers. We are going to have a new family meeting with the head of the school.

 

I guess, however, I am still confused how my son can do so well in other learning situations and come to this school and not connect. We have talked about it, but I can't figure it out. He is having more problems adjusting than I thought he would. The Christian environment is making him uncomfortable, even tho we are Christians. He is confused that the teachers don't seem to go over materials.

 

Maybe we will go back to homeschooling.

 

Before you make a final decision, I would suggest that you talk with the teachers and not just other parents.

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  • 3 weeks later...

To follow up. The immense amount of homework was only part of the problem at this Christian academy. It turns out that the students were also bullying my son, in part because he has long hair (barely touching his shoulder) and also because he was trying to be friendly to girls. Some girls in the tiny choir were terrified of a boy talking with them because they thought it was flirting, and, for some reason, for these very conservative girls flirting was sinful -- in choir, where harmony was important. The choir teacher tried to get the 4 fours and DS to get along, but that didn't work. This school atmosphere is incredibly conservative.

 

I did talk to the principal a few times about these problems. She was very sympathetic about the bullying issues, and she did try to start getting the kids to rethink their behavior, particularly toward more Christian styles.

 

However, the amount of homework seemed to be just kind of a given. Then the teachers began to learn about some of the 'cheating' that I mentioned previously because one of the boys started passing around the answers in study hall. The kids had been passing around the answers in every class that their parents could get an answer key. I think that the school's expectation had catapulated in junior high beyond what the kids in this class could handle and the parents were just trying to help them learn and get the homework done because it was so excessive, especially when most of the kids were also on a sports team.

 

In the end, we decided that the oddly conservative perspective of many students and teachers, the intensity of the school work which was more about memorization than actual learning and causing kids to cheat, and the bullying atmosphere were enough negatives for us. The few positives did not outweigh the negatives.

 

We are now homeschooling. My mom said that DS sounded so distraught in phone conversations, but now he sounds like himself again. This school was definitely a learning experiment for us. The administrators were kind when we left. But I think they realized that even though he was the 'kind of boy we want at our school,' DS was not the kind of student currently enrolled. We are on our own adventure again and that seems a positive. Thanks for everyone's insight. It was definitely helpful.

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That's insane!

 

Some girls in the tiny choir were terrified of a boy talking with them because they thought it was flirting, and, for some reason, for these very conservative girls flirting was sinful -- in choir, where harmony was important.

 

We are now homeschooling. My mom said that DS sounded so distraught in phone conversations, but now he sounds like himself again. This school was definitely a learning experiment for us. The administrators were kind when we left. But I think they realized that even though he was the 'kind of boy we want at our school,' DS was not the kind of student currently enrolled. We are on our own adventure again and that seems a positive. Thanks for everyone's insight. It was definitely helpful.

 

I can't figure out how to multiquote this message, so :D refers to the harmony comment.

Look at the experience from the bright side. If he doesn't do his work at home, you can always threaten him with that school. ;)

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Yikes! It sounds like you made the right decision Jade. Now that I'm not going to cloud your judgment at all... I have very strong opinions about Doug Wilson.

 

 

Thanks for the link to your blog post. I found it insightful as I can't quite comprehend Doug Wilson. I haven't read as much of his work as you have, so I appreciate that you have gone through it and analyzed it.

 

I like reading your newspaper column, too!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am concerned that he is confused about the Christian aspect.

 

My husband went to a Christian school where frankly some teachers were not good Christian role models, but he was always told to listen to them and see them as a role model. It was very hard on him and leaves a mark on him even now.

 

His parents believed what the school said without looking at actions.

 

My husband is very fast now to see hypocrisy or backhandedness at church. And, to think that at church image counts for the most, and at church you should hide your problems from others so they will not be critical.

 

Part of this is also his parents and the church they went to, it is not only the school. The church and school were affiliated.

 

This is an extreme example, but my husband and SIL both went to this school, and a stated aim of the school was to have the kids stay in the exact same denomination/set of beliefs/practices as adults. Now it has not played out that way for my husband or my SIL. But that is the line given to my ILs and anything the school did was okay, b/c they would say it was so they would have the right religious practice/beliefs as adults. But really I would say my husband was harmed by this. I cannot say for my SIL, but she is not attending church at all at present.

 

I am not sure about the grades or homework. I think it is always possible for tests to be very picky, so that someone can know the material, but still do poorly on a test. I have had teachers like that on occassion. It is possible. Maybe he is not using his time well on timed tests.

 

It is also possible -- maybe he is trying to do a good job and learn, and not just trying to get through his classes and do what he has to do. Maybe he is being punished for not working the system correctly, not for not learning. Maybe doing well means you have mastered the system, not that you have learned.

 

Sometimes it can really be that way.... do what you know the teacher wants, never mind if you are learning. Someone who is learning may miss some little parts of the teacher's system, and really be punished for it.

 

I have always been natural at knowing what teachers want, but I have seen friends who really had a deeper, more thoughtful understanding get penalized for this.

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