More writing talk... Frustrated and thinking about dropping/switching

[Robin in Tx]

Dd is 12, doing 7th grade work. The only writing I've had her do previously is R&S writing assignments (through R&S level 5).

 

This year, I decided to enroll her in an online writing service program (Write at Home). I've had mixed feelings about it. It wasn't until about 9 weeks into the program that she began assignments that went through revisions (until then, she would turn in an assignment and receive a few comments, but then it was on to the next assignment... no revisions/improvements required). Before Christmas, she produced two papers. One on "Unlikely Friends" (create a story in the vein of The Lion and the Mouse), and a Mystery (she had to develop a story up to its turning poitn).

 

Since Christmas, our two assignments have been "Unexpected Guest" (in which she was given a setting, and had to describe the scene using all the senses, without narration), and a biographical report (finally!). I've had some disappointments with this program, to the extent that it seemed to me to focus too much on creative writing, but I held out hope for the biography. I wish I could say I'm satisfied. The first assignment for this reprot was to pick a character and free write a list of details/facts to use for compiling the report (take notes, basically). There was no instruction for ordering these notes in outline form, etc. (yet the feedback she received was that her notes were too much like a laundry list of facts). The second assignment is to take this list of facts and write a report with introductory and concluding paragraphs (up to three pages). No instruction on paragraphing or transitions, etc. Isn't that a bit of a leap? And her next assignment will be the final draft. So, three steps: Make a list of notes. Draft a paper. Get some comments back and then finalize the paper.

 

I don't know... I think I'm frustrated because the instruction/feedback dd's received so far has been primarily stylistic, and there really hasn't been much help/instruction on how to structure a paper. Looking forward, we have only two more assignments to complete with this program. One is on how to give directions, and another appears to be persuasive (nominating someone for an award). Part of me wants to throw in the towel, and stop right now and spend several weeks on this biography, spending time on how to order and strcture it. Part of me doesn't want to set an example of quitting, though.

 

There is not enough time to go back, start all over again with this biography, and do it the right way from the beginning. Should I just let it go, and look forward to doing something different next year? Or should I cut my losses and spend the rest of this year doing someting else?

 

Dd likes the work, sorta. At least she's writing every week. She's pleased with the work she's produced so far, but even she admits that she hasn't learned much (she's learned how to revise a paper to suit a teacher's comments, but I don't think she's learned how to create a better paper from the get go... it's all been reactive, if that make sense). I'm just trying to figure out if this is a waste of time or not, and if so what I should do instead. Or perhaps she's making progress that we are unable to measure?

 

Sorry so long... thanks for any iinput/suggestions!

Robin

 

P.S. Can you believe I'm losing sleep over this? Up at 5:00a.m. asking questions? LOL

[8filltheheart]

Hi Robin,

 

It sounds to me like you want her focusing more on report/non-fictiion type writing. You could have her spend the next several weeks learning to write a research paper and have her do that as a totally separate school assignment from the class. For my kids that are in middle school, research assignments are broken down into weeks that vaguely go something like this:

 

week 1: select topic and begin gathering sources (for middle school our topics are totally concrete.....like a very indepth report)

week2: begin gathering notes (I spend the beginning of the week showing them how to use index cards, labeling them, writing down the bibliography card (using correct MLA format....http://www.liunet.edu/cwis/cwp/library/workshop/citmla.htm), and how to determine what types of subtopics would be relevant for them to find info on, etc.)

weeks 2-3: notetaking

week 4: organizing, outline, topic paragraph

week 5 rough draft.....teach MLA notation, discuss original writing vs. plagarism (a conversation I have repeatedly with my children, yr after yr)

week 6: final copy, typed

 

My kids have written about all kinds of dfferent topics for middle school papers.....everything from the life of a manatee to how hydroelctricity works. Try to help them select a topic that is easily researched and broken down into categories for notetaking. I also try to make it something very concrete (not persuasive or requiring any analysis on their part, simply learning to research, organize, and write at this age is enough.)

 

I typically drop all other science and normally writing assignments during this time. It doesn't sound like her current writing assignments are overly burdensome, so I would probably just have her do this in addition to them.

 

HTH

[Robin in Tx]

This is very helpful. You are right. The assignments are not overly burdensome, and I could have her do the research work in additin. Thanks so much for explaining how your research paper assignment typically goes - exactly what I needed to hear!

 

Re: what I prefer she focus on... I guess you could say that I've bought into TWTM hook, line and sinker when it comes to this. Perhaps my question *should* be: Is there any usefulness to these other writing projects? So many of my frieinds' kids are taking writing classes where they are leanring how to write a newspaper article, an advertisement, etc.... all these different types of writing... for children as young as ten... and I've assumed that focusing on structure is more important than creative writing. I really didn't know what to expect from this course, but I admit to being surprised at how paper structure and organization has been pretty much ignored. I do wonder, though, if all the other writing exposure that my friends' kids are getting isn't benefiting them in some way.. although I can't see how this course has benefited us much. I wonder how valuable the non-report/fiction writing experience truly is? If everyone is doing it, there must be sometihng to it!

 

Thanks again!

Robin

[Kathie in VA]

Hi Robin! Sorry to hear you're having problems. I think you already got great advise.... I really have nothing to add. I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I have put my dd (13yr/7thgr) into a local writing class and I am also not very impressed. Now this class's focus is creative writing so they have been doing all sorts of different things. My dd get a small sampling of something like a feature article, comic strip, short play, ...., and now a purple prose. They move on to the next thing sooo fast.... whether they are done with their paper or not. My dd is supposed to email in her papers, they are not always collected in class. Good thing is she can email in as many drafts as she wants, bad thing is she can also not mail in any!

 

I'm going to let her finnish the class though since we are also continuing to do CW-Homer at home (although that one's going slow).

 

Good luck with your issue. Sounds like picking one thing from her class (like the bio) and re-working it to teach/show "how" it can be done might be two great lessons: 1: to learn how to do a bio and 2: to compare the two end papers (one from class and one after re-doing it with your method) and really see what the difference can be!

 

hth

[FloridaLisa]

Robin,

 

Here's my 2 cents. :) Since she likes the class, is nearing the end and is receiving feedback on style, I'd let her complete the biographical piece and teach her the formatting instruction you feel she's missing. So if the next assignment is a rough draft, teach her the middle steps of outlining. Help her with transitions, topic sentences and clinchers if it's not being taught.

 

In other words, let the Write At Home folks do the dirty work of editing style. This is sometimes where it gets personal to our kids anyway. You fill in the gaps with instruction. I wouldn't do this next year, by the way. Only to make it work this year. Yes, if I'm paying for an outside class, I definitely *do not* want to have to step in and teach it!

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

P.S. Don't forget that you can use the summer to continue with writing skills. Once she's done this biographical report, you could use the summer working on other report-based writing. Don't lose sleep. She's young yet and SHE LIKES HER WRITING CLASS. That's huge.

[AngieW in Texas]

I would go ahead and finish the course since you're so close to the end of it.

 

Once you're done with it, I recommend trying IEW. It will take care of teaching the structure of writing.

 

Teaching Writing Structure and Style (TWSS) is the set of videos that teaches you how to teach writing using the IEW methodology.

 

Student Writing Intensive (SWI) is the set of videos that teaches directly to the student. For your dd's age, I would use level B (for 6th-8th graders). The lesson plans that come with SWI-B will take 15 weeks to complete.

 

I actually prefer using the theme-based writing programs sold by IEW over the SWI videos, but I prefer to have a paper text instead of videos. I'm using US History-based Writing Lessons for my 9th grader this year. I've had to adapt the lessons since I'm having my dd do volumes 1 and 2 in a single year when they're scheduled to take one year each, but we're only doing one year of American history and I want her writing to follow along with what she's studying.

[Colleen in NS]

Perhaps my question *should* be: Is there any usefulness to these other writing projects? So many of my frieinds' kids are taking writing classes where they are leanring how to write a newspaper article, an advertisement, etc.... all these different types of writing... for children as young as ten... and I've assumed that focusing on structure is more important than creative writing....If everyone is doing it, there must be sometihng to it!

 

I wonder if the WTM way of teaching writing lays a stable writing foundation, and on that foundation can come creative writing, if the child/parent so desires.

 

I didn't have that foundation in my school years. I sort of enjoyed various creative writing assignments I had over the years, and I even took and really enjoyed a one year journalism class in high school. But I never continued to do any kind of writing (except writing letters) after graduation, and I think it is because I was never taught how to think through someone else's material (outlining and rewriting), before having to write my own thoughts. I can see now how that foundation would have given me a stable base from which to spring off with my own creative writing.

 

Good luck figuring this out!

[Robin in Tx]

finish out mainly because I'm already paid up and there's not that much more anyhow, and dd does seem to like it... then refocus our objectives for next year, and include the sort of writing I want her to develop as extra assignments in the interim.

 

I do see the benefit of letting someone else coach the style... so thanks, Lisa for that consideration. You make a good point about that.

 

I think I'm still convinced of SWB's approach to teaching writing... but I suppose it never hurt anything to let her try other types of writing as well but ONLY to the extent that it doesn't interfere with teaching structure, organizatin, etc.

 

Thanks so much for all the helpful feedback. I sure wish SWB's writing program for middle school were out... SWB if you're reading, are you sure you're not interested in someone like my dd field testing? :)

 

Robin

[Robin in Tx]

Good luck with your issue. Sounds like picking one thing from her class (like the bio) and re-working it to teach/show "how" it can be done might be two great lessons: 1: to learn how to do a bio and 2: to compare the two end papers (one from class and one after re-doing it with your method) and really see what the difference can be!

 

hth

 

I think this is an EXCELLENT idea. This is exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks!!

 

Robin

[Robin in Tx]

Robin,

 

Here's my 2 cents. :) let the Write At Home folks do the dirty work of editing style. This is sometimes where it gets personal to our kids anyway. You fill in the gaps with instruction....... She's young yet and SHE LIKES HER WRITING CLASS. That's huge.

 

 

These are both very good points. I'm going to take your advice, and do some other things over the summer.

 

Thanks!

[Robin in Tx]

Colleen, I am in the exact same boat re: the writing instruction I received. I think that's why I feel so strongly about this. Thanks for encouraging me to stick with my commitment to the foundations.

 

Robin

[Robin in Tx]

I will look into IEW for next year as you suggest. Thanks for explaining the difference between TWSS and SWI and explaining where I should start.

 

I appreciate your help!

Robin

[Jackie in AR]

Robin, I haven't read through all of this thread, but I'm wondering if you've seen the sample chapters of Writing With Ease (SWB's first book in her new series). Chapter 4 gives an overview of writing for each level that might be helpful to you.

 

Off to our Super Bowl party . . .

[Colleen in NS]

Colleen, I am in the exact same boat re: the writing instruction I received. I think that's why I feel so strongly about this. Thanks for encouraging me to stick with my commitment to the foundations.

 

Robin

 

I was super excited the other day when I read that essay in SWB's new writing book (that Jackie in AR mentioned below) - it took the WTM suggestions and the writing CD ideas, and fleshed it all out in an orderly way for me - suddenly lightbulbs starting turning on in my mind as I read through the whole thing.

 

Then, when I read your post about the creative writing, that next thought popped into my mind - that perhaps I should give the writing foundation, and then creative writing can follow in all it's various methods and styles. I think R&S teaches various forms of creative writing, and we'll do those lessons. But our main focus will be on the writing foundation. It just made sense to me to do it that way.

 

This is all new for me, but I'm glad it was an encouragement. Stick to it! :)