Rod and Staff English is mind numbing!

[abrightmom]

I know SWB recommends it and it is a strong English program. I know English grammar is supposed to be challenging. Is R & S is not a good fit for us? DS10 (4th gr.) is using English 4. Here is why I grind my teeth and bang my head on the table:

 

It is so thorough that it is mind numbingly tedious. We do NOT need so.much.detail.

 

Too much to do. I can skip but I dislike wading thru jell-O for a few nuggets of gold. I want a more streamlined way to learn English grammar.

 

Why oh why must we spend so much effort on the minutae of English grammar? :)

 

ETA: Temper Tantrum over Rod and Staff is officially over. We are going to sample KISS (the first section) to see if anything lights up for us. Otherwise, I will relax and let R&S do it's thing. Perhaps I need to see the easiness of the work as a blessing right now because there is plenty of challenge to keep us on our toes in other subjects.

Edited October 4, 2012 by abrightmom

[AnnaM]

I TOTALLY agree. I hated it. We hated it. If you have the money I would dump it. If not can you skip some of the repetitive stuff and just skim through the book?

[KrissiK]

I'm sorry you hate it. We really like it. My boys need the repetition. DS2 still struggles with proper nouns and common nouns. I hope you can find something you like!

[Susie in MS]

I can't help you with your choices, but I wanted to say mind numbing is exactly how we felt the lessons were. By the time you get through reading all of that there are no brain cells left for the assignment.

[monalisa]

I am with you. Love your slogging through jello analogy! I really wanted to love R&S 4 since it seems to be the gold standard of rigorous grammar, and picked it because FLL3 wasn't a hit here either (1 and 2 were fine). It is OK, but somewhat of drudgery for dd and me both. I'm leaning toward just making sure she gets all the grammar in LOE down pat this year (the rules they cover and the little bit of POS), and then use JAG or Hake next year. I've also considered using Winston Grammar and Fix-It, and then moving on to diagramming later when dd's brain will be in a more analytical stage (she detests diagramming at age 9). FWIW, I think FLL4 will be more challenging if you're interested in switching to that; I noticed that things covered in FLL3 don't show up until much later in R&S 4.

[bnbacademy]

As much as possible, we do all the answers orally. Would that help?

[abrightmom]

I'm sorry you hate it. We really like it. My boys need the repetition. DS2 still struggles with proper nouns and common nouns. I hope you can find something you like!

 

Well, in all honesty, I think struggle with it for this particular child while my next kid in line will probably need it. :) My oldest is much more intuitive and seems to remember/apply with very little effort (at least in grammar and spelling).

 

:001_smile:

Edited October 4, 2012 by abrightmom

[abrightmom]

As much as possible, we do all the answers orally. Would that help?

 

Yes, we do that and still...... :cursing: So much of the detail is pedantic to me. Is that the right use of pedantic? Anyhow, I am going to read ahead in the text again and see if, perhaps, I can streamline it for us. But, I'm THIS CLOSE to just accepting that Rod & Staff is not a good fit for this child and letting it go.

Edited October 4, 2012 by abrightmom

[Hunter]

I like to use the lower levels of the mind-numbing grammars and just move slower and never intend to finish. The lower the level, the more critical the information.

 

Do you have year 2 or 3? Take another look at it for this year. You might just like it.

 

I don't have R&S, but with the similar programs, just backing up makes everything fall into place for me.

 

I've seen enough junior college Comp and Grammar 101 homework, to know what is coming up, and I'm in no rush to finish the best books, to slog through the ones I don't need to do.

 

I use model sentences for sentence composition exercises, and I repeat generic composition exercises. I can spend years finishing a book. I think of each book as a multi-year composition handbook.

 

I have several junior college remedial writing curricula here. The content is almost identical to the rigorous grades 3-5, that I've seen, but not as well written.

[abrightmom]

I like to use the lower levels of the mind-numbing grammars and just move slower and never intend to finish. The lower the level, the more critical the information.

What programs are you referring to? CtGE?

Do you have year 2 or 3? Take another look at it for this year. You might just like it. Levels 2-4. Dabbled in 2 and 3 off and on; felt the same then. Honestly, the program is so thorough and detailed which is fantastic if it's wanted and/or needed. My son does NOT need so much detail in explanation and I am finding that I want "some" English grammar but not to this level. I find absolutely NO value in knowing some of this stuff. No value whatsoever. Who cares?! I have been wracking my brain on this for awhile now and am surprised to find myself swinging to the side that says so much formal grammar is a waste of time. I want some; just not so much. Maybe I don't understand why it is so important. SWB says grammar is a supporting skill for composition; she believes Latin study doesn't replace formal English grammar study; she recently said she prefers the FLL/WWE path to R&S; she has also said that sentence diagraming is a diagnostic tool that helps a student figure out why a sentence is wonky. All of that makes sense when I listen to her but then I open up R&S and FREAK. Usage drives me batty. My kids understand usage because we talk to teach other. It's intuitive. I find it inane to make my kid wade through a bunch of terminology (i.e. "Do you use is/am or are/were with a singular pronoun?" when they understand how to use is/am/are/were in everyday conversation.) Perhaps the study of English grammar is good for thinking skills much like the study of Latin is. I am willing to consider that as it's a double return for our investment; study tedious grammar and reap awesome grammar understanding and an exercised brain.

 

I don't have R&S, but with the similar programs, just backing up makes everything fall into place for me. English 2 is a little silly although I think the last chapter, focused on composition, is quite good. Every time we start a level I want to poke my eyes out and we end up quitting and studying English intuitively or randomly. That won't work forever though because I NEVER studied formal English grammar. There's not much more I can teach him via the natural method.

 

I've seen enough junior college Comp and Grammar 101 homework, to know what is coming up, and I'm in no rush to finish the best books, to slog through the ones I don't need to do.Well, is all that is coming up necessary? I mean, really, is it? Maybe it is....

 

I use model sentences for sentence composition exercises, and I repeat generic composition exercises. I can spend years finishing a book. I think of each book as a multi-year composition handbook. I couldn't use R&S English this way. I don't see the point. Perhaps with a different English grammar program...

 

I have several junior college remedial writing curricula here. The content is almost identical to the rigorous grades 3-5, that I've seen, but not as well written. I am referring to the grammar side of things. I don't find that much in the way of composition instruction in English 4; there's some but it's not "just composition".

:001_smile:

[Hunter]

I'm sorry I haven't seen R&S. Trust yourself to know what is right for you and yours.

 

I've been slogging through some Principle Approach stuff, and trying to pull from it, what is right for me and mine.

 

Sometimes we are not preparing ourselves and OUR students for what other people are preparing for. It's important to know how to skin a seal in the arctic and how to climb a coconut tree in the tropics, but not vice versa.

 

The quickest way to prepare for nothing is to try and prepare for everything. I think it's time to stop at least for now. We can't teach something well that we don't see the point of.

[Ellie]

Easy Grammar. Do that first, then something that does diagramming, if you insist. :-)

[abrightmom]

I'm sorry I haven't seen R&S. Trust yourself to know what is right for you and yours.

 

I've been slogging through some Principle Approach stuff, and trying to pull from it, what is right for me and mine.

 

Sometimes we are not preparing ourselves and OUR students for what other people are preparing for. It's important to know how to skin a seal in the arctic and how to climb a coconut tree in the tropics, but not vice versa.

 

The quickest way to prepare for nothing is to try and prepare for everything. I think it's time to stop at least for now. We can't teach something well that we don't see the point of.

 

:001_smile: This makes wonderful sense and perhaps it's another turning for me as a Teacher Mom. Rod & Staff works well for some folk and I won't sell it because I think it's a good fit for my 2nd born. However, I keep trying to fit my Square Peg Son into the Round Hole of Rod & Staff. I am willing to take a few more deep breaths and flip thru my text one more time. Then, if my concerns remain, I'm hitting One Click Ordering on Amazon Prime and FLL4 will be here Monday. The next stop will be MP for LCI. :D

[almondbutterandjelly]

I have been surprisingly impressed with the English for Young Catholics series by Seton books. Link for English 4 here:

 

http://www.setonbooks.com/viewone.php?ToView=P-EN04-13&Zoomin=1

 

Workbook format, not too many exercises, somewhat colorful, not remotely mind-numbing, some grammar but not too much. I'm not Catholic, but I am really liking this series.

 

HTH!

 

Kim

[abrightmom]

Easy Grammar. Do that first, then something that does diagramming, if you insist. :-)

 

I insist only because SWB does. And I think diagraming is the bees knees. It's fun! :D

[Tidbits of Learning]

I have been surprisingly impressed with the English for Young Catholics series by Seton books. Link for English 4 here:

 

http://www.setonbooks.com/viewone.php?ToView=P-EN04-13&Zoomin=1

 

Workbook format, not too many exercises, somewhat colorful, not remotely mind-numbing, some grammar but not too much. I'm not Catholic, but I am really liking this series.

 

HTH!

 

Kim

 

:iagree: We have used it and it is really good. They retain it without hating English.

[edeemarie]

My oldest sounds a lot like yours- did not need 30 practice problems for very predictable subjects and verbs. We started KISS grammar and he is flourishing with it. I am even learning some grammar right along with him! No diagramming, but I am sure you could probably find a supplemental source for that.

[Penelope]

I'm sorry I haven't seen R&S. Trust yourself to know what is right for you and yours.

 

 

From what I have seen of multiple levels of Rod and Staff, I don't see the point of backing up levels and going more slowly.

 

I can see an argument for going up several levels and perhaps moving more slowly.

 

I am thinking about doing that with my oldest student, who doesn't need the repetition year after year, but who doesn't necessarily need to wait til 9th grade to be exposed to all the grammar concepts.

 

Another option for the OP is waiting and then using Analytical Grammar. Or not waiting or doing Junior AG now and then AG. Haven't used them, but am thinking about them.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

Easy grammar :)

[Dolphin]

A question before you buy something new; are you doing all of R&S? I was overwhelmed at the start (we are in 5th grade as there is no more FLL).

 

We do the lesson prep, then the oral drill.

 

I only assign evens or odds on the written part. If ds misses a lot we go over the other ones together.

 

We don't do the challenges and we only do the review at the end of the chapter.

 

We are not doing the writing lessons (bolded) as we already have a writing program.

 

Some wise women suggested this way and we have been doing pretty well with it since. It is not as fun as playing with lego, but it is not tedious and we both are learning a lot about grammar. We also mix in School house rock grammar songs when we are doing the oral drills :D.

[abrightmom]

A question before you buy something new; are you doing all of R&S? I was overwhelmed at the start (we are in 5th grade as there is no more FLL).

 

We do the lesson prep, then the oral drill.

 

I only assign evens or odds on the written part. If ds misses a lot we go over the other ones together.

 

We don't do the challenges and we only do the review at the end of the chapter.

 

We are not doing the writing lessons (bolded) as we already have a writing program.

 

Some wise women suggested this way and we have been doing pretty well with it since. It is not as fun as playing with lego, but it is not tedious and we both are learning a lot about grammar. We also mix in School house rock grammar songs when we are doing the oral drills :D.

 

No, we have been using Rod and Staff off and on for awhile and we do much of it orally and with the white board. I do use the Oral Drill and skip sections I find redundant. :001_smile:

 

I am going to give KISS a whirl with my oldest for a week or long enough to get thru the first section. Then, we will compare the two. I really have a love/hate relationship with R&S. I need to remember that. My son never complains. It is really just me. I will get a grip and make the most of it unless KISS clicks for us. :)

Edited October 4, 2012 by abrightmom

[MrsMe]

R&S Grammar...makes me shudder. To me it's like kicking a dead horse. Both dd and I tune out with it. Just commiserating.

 

I found CGE a much better alternative.

[Roxy Roller]

We tried R&S, and we have switched to GWG. It covers similar topics with lots of diagramming, in an independent workbook format. I tried to do AG with my oldest last year in 7th after a couple of levels of GWG, but we switched back to the next level in GWG half-way through the year. Grammar gets done and it is not painful for anyone.

[warneral]

We just started R&S4 this year and are on lesson 21. I like it. Yesterday's was a pain admittedly (diagramming questions). Today I just had them do it all orally. I like that I know if they understand it. I like that there is plenty of practice that we can skip if they totally get it. I also like that there are tests for additional practice and gauging their understanding.

 

My suggestion would be to only cover what you need to to ensure they understand. This curriculum is built for a classroom full of students. You know what your (one or two) students need and whether they understand the topic. Pare back where necessary. I also skip some of the teacher's notes if I don't feel it is necessary.

 

I'm just sharing this in the event that you are a major rule follower (like I am). Allowing yourself to decrease the repetition might be all you and your son needs :)

[mjpeter]

I use Rod and Staff for my older children, but I didn't care for the elementary levels.

 

I switched my youngest son to BJU English and it seems to be a great fit for all of us....very straight-forward with a colorful presentation and a bit more interest.

[2_girls_mommy]

I agree w/PP. I don't think of it as wading through jello w/my 5th grader that is naturally intuitive w/L.A. She reads the lesson. Sometimes I do the oral questions out of the T.M (a couple of times a week..) We do the oral drills. I don't when the last time was that she missed any in the oral drills. I sometimes assign the evens or the odds if there is time, and she hasn't a lot of other work in a day to do. We always do diagramming. And we do the composition exercises. We are covering our bases. She gets it. We do it quickly and move on with our day. Much of R&S has been that way for her.

 

 

For my younger dd (3rd grade) R&S slow and repetitive pace is perfect. We spend much of her morning on R&S spelling, math, and English. The pace is just right for her. We still only do the evens or odds because she couldn't possibly do more. It takes a lot of work and hand holding from me to get her morning work done. The older does her math, english, latin, spelling, literature, etc. in the time time it takes the younger to get through her 3 core subjects.

 

So I am able to use it w/2 very different students in different ways. I love the versatility.

[raceNzanesmom]

We use it mostly orally and on the white board. My graduate used it through level 8. We love it! BUT, I wouldn't want to do it as written, and we don't use the worksheets or tests.

[birchbark]

 

Why oh why must we spend so much effort on the minutae of English grammar? :)

 

We don't need to. :)

 

After a couple years of using R&S with HoD, I was impressed with the grammar instruction, but greatly unimpressed with the grammar-to-writing ratio. The whole purpose of grammar knowledge is to be able to write well. (And perhaps study a foreign language.) I have come to prefer a lot of writing practice with a little grammar rather than the other way around.

 

Grammar is also rather abstract and kids can pick it up much easier as they reach the logic stage.

 

The Sentence Family is fun and has plenty of grammar for all elementary grades. It is cheap and reusable. Then look at Daily Grammar Practice for an efficient (5 min/day), thorough (GUM plus diagramming) curriculum for grammar. It is quite advanced so ignore the numbers and pick a level that looks comfortable.

 

If you are spending a lot of effort on something that yields minimal benefit it's time to take a different approach.

[Colleen in NS]

I get what you mean about mind-numbing. But I have one small argument for talking about the little details. Yes, someone might understand grammar intuitively. But somewhere down the road, when that someone is writing a composition, someone else is going to proofread it. And that editor is ideally going to talk with the writer about improvements to be made via grammar, so being able to verbalize the concepts and the terms of grammar will be hugely beneficial to the writer. I think THAT is why all the little details are in R&S. Just today, ds and I were reading through a lesson in Book 9, and he was BOOORRRREEEDDDD. He had already learned most of it in previous years. But, he made some mistakes in the exercises (we do them orally, too), and he needed to be able to *explain* his correction to me, using the proper terms and talking about the concepts properly. That part, to me, is difficult, but is a valuable skill to learn. The language of grammar learning is important to being able to talk about writing.

[Mommy22alyns]

I've been through part of 2, all of 3, and the first part of 4. I will say that early this year, both girls have protested at some of the lessons, saying, "I know THAT!" So I've skimmed and skipped several things. I also do a few things orally and assign written work selectively. But otherwise, it's been working very well and I intend to stick with it. I also do not have much formal grammar instruction under my belt, so this is teaching me too.

[abrightmom]

We don't need to. :)

 

After a couple years of using R&S with HoD, I was impressed with the grammar instruction, but greatly unimpressed with the grammar-to-writing ratio. The whole purpose of grammar knowledge is to be able to write well. (And perhaps study a foreign language.) I have come to prefer a lot of writing practice with a little grammar rather than the other way around.

 

Grammar is also rather abstract and kids can pick it up much easier as they reach the logic stage.

 

The Sentence Family is fun and has plenty of grammar for all elementary grades. It is cheap and reusable. Then look at Daily Grammar Practice for an efficient (5 min/day), thorough (GUM plus diagramming) curriculum for grammar. It is quite advanced so ignore the numbers and pick a level that looks comfortable.

 

If you are spending a lot of effort on something that yields minimal benefit it's time to take a different approach.

 

Thank-you birchbark. You are always, always a voice of reason. The sentence I bolded above echoes my beliefs as well. I do want some grammar and I've looked at DGP time and again thinking it's a brilliant approach. I had penciled it in but deferred to English 4 since it was here on my shelf and school needed to begin.

 

When you say "GUM plus diagramming" are you comparing DGP to GUM Grammar?

[tjneary99]

Interesting ideas posted. The Sentence Family looks very clever. Is it similar to GrammarLand but with pictures added by the students???

Best to you in finding contentment with what you have or being led to something better for all.

[tjlcc]

I am going to second Daily Grammar Practice. It is literally 5/min a day. My oldest was using R&S and it just wasn't what I wanted. I bought levels 2, 3, and 4 as I wasn't sure where my boys would place. We are currently working on level 2 together, but I'm going to bump my oldest up as I know he's capable of more. Diagramming begins in level 4.

[birchbark]

 

When you say "GUM plus diagramming" are you comparing DGP to GUM Grammar?

 

No, (sorry!) G.U.M. as in covering grammar, usage, and mechanics. :)

[tjneary99]

When some of you refer to Daily Grammar in 5 minutes, are you referring to Stamper's book or Evan Moor's Daily Language Review?? I am not sure which book yo are referring to?

Thanks, Jen

[Miss Marple]

Oh yeah! I feel your pain. I would rather clip the grass with scissors than do R & S again :p

 

We found MCT to be a much better fit.

[MomsintheGarden]

Sigh, I understand why you all don't like R&S, but I still love it. I don't have a very good grammar background, and I've learned a lot. :) I hope you find something that works well for you and your students.

[Juliegmom]

Taking notes here! So interesting to see how people either love or really dislike R&S. It's only our first year with it, but so far it's a perfect fit and plan to continue with it. Hope you find something that works for you. Easy Grammar would probably be my next choice.

[mommyto4]

We love R&S so far. My ten year old loves the spelling and the grammar. We've tried FLL, MCT, Soaring with Spelling, and Spelling Workout. R&S is by far the best fit for him!

[angela in ohio]

It brought my dd a perfect score on her English ACT, so I say it is worth it! :D The other dd missed a few questions and got a 34, but she was only an 8th grader and still has R&S 10 to go, so she'll get there. :D In addition, writing instruction with them has been a *breeze* because of their grasp of grammar. Foreign language instruction has been easy, too.

 

The upper levels put it all together. It is one of those things you just have to trust and wait for the results. The writing increases a LOT in the upper grades, and the focus changes a bit. You don't really know the program unless you have at least looked at, if not used, the upper levels.

 

It really depends on your priorities, though. We did want dc to know every single detail of the English language, and R&S worked for that. If that's not a priority, R&S would be overkill.

 

For one dd, I had her do every practice problem, but the other didn't need that much, so she didn't. If your dc is quicker, then I would let him do odds or evens or such. We do the lesson as written in the TE, but then I adapt the written assignment if needed. It is written to an average classroom of students. You can add more with the worksheets, or you can subtract some, depending on the child, though, if you do it at home.

[birchbark]

When some of you refer to Daily Grammar in 5 minutes, are you referring to Stamper's book or Evan Moor's Daily Language Review?? I am not sure which book yo are referring to?

Thanks, Jen

 

Daily Grammar Practice

[Penguin]

We are using R & S and I love it, but I can certainly understand not liking the program. Obviously, no program works for everyone.

 

But I would like to give you something to think about with regard to learning the details of grammar terminology. I am currently taking a foreign language class for adults. In order to keep up with this class, you need to know grammar. You have to already know the difference between a direct object and an indirect object. You have to understand the difference between a dependent clause and an independent clause . I would be LOST if I didn't already "own" this vocabulary.

[abrightmom]

There have been several insightful replies on this thread. Thank-you! I have considered a course change, looking at a different approach altogether such as DGP, Easy Grammar, or Hake. I also like FLL (especially 1 & 2 which we use and love). We are giving KISS a whirl but I am going to dig my heels in and stay with English 4 (unless KISS completely takes us in) despite my periodic temper tantrums with it. :D Despite the tedium it IS helping me to understand grammar and as someone wisely pointed out I really can control how much work my student does. I can assign a little work or mostly oral work to my intuitive grammar guy one day and the next we can work several questions on a tougher topic. When I really consider how much time we are spending on it at this level it's a SHORT block each day and it isn't robbing us of time for composition just yet. It may in the future as the levels get tougher but right now it's fine. I just need to buck up and teach it. No money needs to be spent this year. We can tackle a course change next year if I think it will be profitable. R&S English is a good program and we have had excellent retention despite Mom's periodic melt downs (all done in private or on the WTM forum, never in front of the kids :D) Sometimes the study of the minutae really really irks me; other days I get excited that we are learning to think via the study of English grammar. I have had to carefully examine myself and the goals for the children this week in regard to this subject. A strong command of the English language is an academic goal we have for the kids and I do believe that a solid grammar foundation is an important part of it. Please remind me of that the next time I flip out, okay?! :lol:

[MomsintheGarden]

A strong command of the English language is an academic goal we have for the kids and I do believe that a solid grammar foundation is an important part of it. Please remind me of that the next time I flip out, okay?! :lol:

LOL. You are welcome to flip out here any time you want. It is one of the best features of the WTM boards. :)

 

Like Angela, I have seen the results of R&S Grammar with my older dc and really like them.

[Colleen in NS]

...it's a SHORT block each day and it isn't robbing us of time for composition just yet. It may in the future as the levels get tougher but right now it's fine. ....Please remind me of that the next time I flip out, okay?! :lol:

 

OK! :D

 

About time for composition, think of it this way: If you set up a great grammar foundation now, while doing consistent short writing practice through the early and middle years, all that grammar learning will pay off in the later school years, when learning composition does get more complex. And your grammar learning can be finished by early high school, freeing up more time for composition.

 

Like Angela, I have seen the results of R&S Grammar with my older dc and really like them.

 

Me too. :D We now know that one of the main writers for a small local monthly newspaper is a terrible writer! :lol: We pick his stories apart every month, because his sentences just don't make sense a lot of the time - simply because of not using grammar properly. :D

[abrightmom]

LOL. You are welcome to flip out here any time you want. It is one of the best features of the WTM boards. :)

 

Like Angela, I have seen the results of R&S Grammar with my older dc and really like them.

 

OK! :D

 

About time for composition, think of it this way: If you set up a great grammar foundation now, while doing consistent short writing practice through the early and middle years, all that grammar learning will pay off in the later school years, when learning composition does get more complex. And your grammar learning can be finished by early high school, freeing up more time for composition.

 

 

 

Me too. :D We now know that one of the main writers for a small local monthly newspaper is a terrible writer! :lol: We pick his stories apart every month, because his sentences just don't make sense a lot of the time - simply because of not using grammar properly. :D

 

Thanks ladies! I really do appreciate being able to flesh out what is going on, brainstorm ideas, compare notes, etc. Sometimes a course correction or change IS needed; sometimes a program is truly a poor fit; other times I need to work through the challenges. More often than not I have a good program in my hands and I need to figure out how to teach with it and make it work. :001_smile:

[Janice in NJ]

R&S rocks. I know you don't agree, but I'm going to say it anyway. :001_smile:

 

I'm teaching high school. You just can't teach composition to cranky teens without a solid foundation in grammar. They produce awkward, ugly sentences all the time. And they get the same response from me, "Diagram it; you'll see why I'm right. It's a bad sentence." It avoids the "But I like it, I want to keep it" argument. Which isn't really true. They don't like it. They are just too lazy to change it. ;) If they don't have a firm foundation in grammar, a simple command loops into an endless battle of the wills. Not pretty! Teach grammar. You'll have enough to argue about when they are teens.

 

IMO you don't need to have a heavy grammar year with R&S every year. In fact, I think the odd years of school are the hard years in general for school: 1st grade, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 11th. For general school subjects, the even years are the double-back-and-review/peek-forward years.

 

However, R&S is heavy in the even years. PERFECT fit in my mind. You want to focus on books 4, 6, 8, and 10. You can skitter through the odd ones. In other words, you have heavy grammar years during 4, 6, 8, and 10 when the rest of your curriculum (think math) is not as challenging. For R&S in the even years, spend time on the lesson. Review. Tests. The whole shebang. During the odd years, you buzz through the lesson, diagram a few things on a white-board together, and assign the workbook pages for written work. Done. Three times a week for a few minutes. Don't finish the book. You don't need to. Begin the next even-year book in the fall.

 

OR just purchase the even books. For third grade, purchase the level four book. Work through half of it. In the fall of fourth grade, review the concepts covered by assigning the workbook pages as review (zip through the lesson as a review) and then pick up where you left off. Solid grammar. Done.

 

One of my little people loved workbooks. We did A Beka on the off years. But everyone gets a heavy dose of R&S around here (Psst: I needed it in order to learn grammar myself. Plenty of ah-ha moments for me. And Susan is right: college profs adore a child with proper grammar and usage. I am certain they overlook content issues and hand out automatic A's because it is just so darn nice to read a paper that is not riddled with errors. Really. It just places your kids ahead of the pack. An easy-peasy boost.)

 

You won't regret it. I regret a lot from my early years. But NOT R&S. It's gold.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Sophia]

 

(Psst: I needed it in order to learn grammar myself. Plenty of ah-ha moments for me. And Susan is right: college profs adore a child with proper grammar and usage. I am certain they overlook content issues and hand out automatic A's because it is just so darn nice to read a paper that is not riddled with errors. Really. It just places your kids ahead of the pack. An easy-peasy boost.)

 

You won't regret it. I regret a lot from my early years. But NOT R&S. It's gold.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

:iagree:

My college boy thanks me for making him do R&S, and the comments his college profs make on his papers are just so pleasant to read. ;)

[abrightmom]

R&S rocks. I know you don't agree, but I'm going to say it anyway. :001_smile:

 

I'm teaching high school. You just can't teach composition to cranky teens without a solid foundation in grammar. They produce awkward, ugly sentences all the time. And they get the same response from me, "Diagram it; you'll see why I'm right. It's a bad sentence." It avoids the "But I like it, I want to keep it" argument. Which isn't really true. They don't like it. They are just too lazy to change it. ;) If they don't have a firm foundation in grammar, a simple command loops into an endless battle of the wills. Not pretty! Teach grammar. You'll have enough to argue about when they are teens.

 

IMO you don't need to have a heavy grammar year with R&S every year. In fact, I think the odd years of school are the hard years in general for school: 1st grade, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 11th. For general school subjects, the even years are the double-back-and-review/peek-forward years.

 

However, R&S is heavy in the even years. PERFECT fit in my mind. You want to focus on books 4, 6, 8, and 10. You can skitter through the odd ones. In other words, you have heavy grammar years during 4, 6, 8, and 10 when the rest of your curriculum (think math) is not as challenging. For R&S in the even years, spend time on the lesson. Review. Tests. The whole shebang. During the odd years, you buzz through the lesson, diagram a few things on a white-board together, and assign the workbook pages for written work. Done. Three times a week for a few minutes. Don't finish the book. You don't need to. Begin the next even-year book in the fall.

 

OR just purchase the even books. For third grade, purchase the level four book. Work through half of it. In the fall of fourth grade, review the concepts covered by assigning the workbook pages as review (zip through the lesson as a review) and then pick up where you left off. Solid grammar. Done.

 

One of my little people loved workbooks. We did A Beka on the off years. But everyone gets a heavy dose of R&S around here (Psst: I needed it in order to learn grammar myself. Plenty of ah-ha moments for me. And Susan is right: college profs adore a child with proper grammar and usage. I am certain they overlook content issues and hand out automatic A's because it is just so darn nice to read a paper that is not riddled with errors. Really. It just places your kids ahead of the pack. An easy-peasy boost.)

 

You won't regret it. I regret a lot from my early years. But NOT R&S. It's gold.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

:hurray::hurray::hurray: Thanks...... Your posts are gold. :001_smile:

[Dolphin]

I have had to carefully examine myself and the goals for the children this week in regard to this subject. A strong command of the English language is an academic goal we have for the kids and I do believe that a solid grammar foundation is an important part of it. Please remind me of that the next time I flip out, okay?! :lol:

 

:001_smile::001_smile:

 

I have temper tantrums about different subjects at different times too. Usually when the kids are just really taking a loooonnnnngggg time to get something and I have explained it every way I can think of. I am glad you are sticking with it. I resisted for years, but now that I am in it, I can see what an amazing grammar program it is. However, it is an amazingly overwhelming program if you don't reduce it. As soon as someone told me odds or evens, I remember my teachers in "real" school (said snarky a la the jean thread) assigning us odds or evens. It is a tool for us to utilize not to be ruled by.