kalanamak Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I don't need any more writing for kiddo, and I'm happy to adapt, to type up a little. I want to use it as a review of all the phonics and spelling rules we learned from the SWR flashcards K-2. I want to go over them in a different way for a now-older child. Is the TM enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirstenhill Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 All the info you really "need" is there. Phonogram flash cards, spelling rule flash cards and grammar flash cards that match the program are nice but you could make your own or present the material in a different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 All the info you really "need" is there. Phonogram flash cards, spelling rule flash cards and grammar flash cards that match the program are nice but you could make your own or present the material in a different way. :iagree: It would be fairly easy to adapt the writing portion to using a white board. Keep in mind that the program is relying on some dictation and marking up the word so you couldn't skip the writing altogether in order to make it effective. LOE is actually ideal for what you want to do with it and it's possible to have an older student go through the whole thing in about 12 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Keep in mind that the program is relying on some dictation and marking up the word so you couldn't skip the writing altogether in order to make it effective. LOE is actually ideal for what you want to do with it and it's possible to have an older student go through the whole thing in about 12 weeks. Thanks. Whiteboard is a change of pace, and I'd rather not buy another barely touched workbook.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemommy Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I didn't know you could just buy the TM...:001_huh:Hmmmmm.......:tongue_smilie::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Not to talk you out of it but we are extremely workbook averse here and we find the LoE to be just the right amount of practice without being intolerable. We use it as our cursive practice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Not to talk you out of it but we are extremely workbook averse here and we find the LoE to be just the right amount of practice without being intolerable. We use it as our cursive practice too. I am already doing a spelling program, and we've on Z-B handwriting since 1st grade. I just want to run through the rules now and then when we need to slow down a bit in spelling power. However, I'm not sure if I love the idea for $95 bucks plus 12 shipping. If any of you tire of the program, I'd buy the book off of you ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Why not just get the Uncovering the Logic of English book rather than the curriculum then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Why not just get the Uncovering the Logic of English book rather than the curriculum then? I've read it and outlined it. :) I love it! I was hoping for something more step by step with word lists and attacks. The samples of the TM are MUCH more fleshed out than ULOE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Yes, that's why I bought it all.. just offering a lower cost option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 You could do it without the workbook, but you will have to add some things are only in the workbook. For example, one lesson talks about compound words, gives 3-4 examples, then tells the student to complete the activity in the workbook (with no indication of exactly what that activity is!). The workbook has 10-15 other examples to complete. Without the aid of the workbook, you will have to come up with those. BTW, I would put the level of LoE at that of a 7-8 year old. If your son has had solid exposure to SWR for the last 2-3 years, I am not sure he will benefit from doing LoE. Jm2c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 You could do it without the workbook, but you will have to add some things are only in the workbook. For example, one lesson talks about compound words, gives 3-4 examples, then tells the student to complete the activity in the workbook (with no indication of exactly what that activity is!). The workbook has 10-15 other examples to complete. Without the aid of the workbook, you will have to come up with those. BTW, I would put the level of LoE at that of a 7-8 year old. If your son has had solid exposure to SWR for the last 2-3 years, I am not sure he will benefit from doing LoE. Jm2c. He has reached the in one ear and out the other phase, and we haven't gone over the whole scope of spelling in more than 2 years. I'm trying to decide of just memorizing ULOE completely (that would be me doing this) and then just being on my toes and bringing up each topic/rule whenever I see it would be enough, or if I should pop for the more directed TM. It is a pricey book, and even if I treat it very well, I can't see recouping even half the cost, given the market in used books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 You could do it without the workbook, but you will have to add some things are only in the workbook. For example, one lesson talks about compound words, gives 3-4 examples, then tells the student to complete the activity in the workbook (with no indication of exactly what that activity is!). The workbook has 10-15 other examples to complete. Without the aid of the workbook, you will have to come up with those. BTW, I would put the level of LoE at that of a 7-8 year old. If your son has had solid exposure to SWR for the last 2-3 years, I am not sure he will benefit from doing LoE. Jm2c. The 7 minute video intro to this says it has Latin roots and comparisons of British and Am English. I'm not sure my kid would have been ready for that at age 7 .... Looking at the video, it seems there is room for enrichment, and for working with multi-level kids. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 The 7 minute video intro to this says it has Latin roots and comparisons of British and Am English. I'm not sure my kid would have been ready for that at age 7 .... Looking at the video, it seems there is room for enrichment, and for working with multi-level kids. Am I wrong? I haven't seen the video. I looked at the last couple of lessons today. One lesson covers prefixes like en_ (enclose) and dis_ (dislike). Another lesson covers the roots mov (movable), mot (locomotive), and cent (century). My 7 yo can understand these words. How much she will retain will depend on how many she uses and how often. I remember you had said that you expose your son to roots through conversation (dent => dentist). So I guess he will easily understand these words and be able to use them in composing sentences. Not sure if having these words spelled out in the TM will really be a help to you (the teacher) who has already started teaching roots/affixes informally. I am not trying to talk you out of getting the LoE TM, btw. Just giving you as much info as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 I haven't seen the video. I looked at the last couple of lessons today. One lesson covers prefixes like en_ (enclose) and dis_ (dislike). Another lesson covers the roots mov (movable), mot (locomotive), and cent (century). My 7 yo can understand these words. How much she will retain will depend on how many she uses and how often. I remember you had said that you expose your son to roots through conversation (dent => dentist). So I guess he will easily understand these words and be able to use them in composing sentences. Not sure if having these words spelled out in the TM will really be a help to you (the teacher) who has already started teaching roots/affixes informally. I am not trying to talk you out of getting the LoE TM, btw. Just giving you as much info as I can. And I'm an info sponge. Thanks! Man oh man I wish I could just thumb through the thing. So only two lessons on roots? :tongue_smilie: I love hearing her things on, e.g. why the -ea in clean, and not -ee. (It is from her long vid, and it is because then cleense would not be pronounced as cleanse. The -ea's second sound allows it.) Is there any of that? Sort of word history rather than roots or vocab? (Yes, I mention roots often, but I'm afraid only the fun ones stick easily. "Dent" stuck because of his beloved Greek myths: trident.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 So only two lessons on roots? Not just two, a couple more. There are a few other affixes (over_, under_, _ful, _ly, _able, etc.) and some roots, but it is not substantial. You can easily get much more from an inexpensive book that specifically teaches roots or affixes (such as the Trisha Callella books from Creative Teaching Press). I didn't see any of the background info on specific roots or word origins that you are asking about. (And I love that kind of etymological info too. I get it from etymonline.com.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 Not just two, a couple more. There are a few other affixes (over_, under_, _ful, _ly, _able, etc.) and some roots, but it is not substantial. You can easily get much more from an inexpensive book that specifically teaches roots or affixes (such as the Trisha Callella books from Creative Teaching Press). I didn't see any of the background info on specific roots or word origins that you are asking about. (And I love that kind of etymological info too. I get it from etymonline.com.) Thanks. I think you just saved me $100. Perhaps Ms. Eide would be moved to write a book on the Profound Understanding Of Spelling, a sort of Ma's PUFM for spelling. A book for grown-ups who'll be teaching it. I guess that is what I lift my lamp in search of. Or perhaps a book over exercises with answers, to make me feel more confident. A sort of Rex Barks of spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 I got the TM, only, and have been going through it page by page (it has been rather fun actually) putting stickies in to adapt to board work or to beef it up. E.g., when there is a list of words like: fill spill spell pass kiss hiss puff etc that the child is supposed to read and brainstorm on the next rule, I ask if kiddo can come up with words with a double consonant at the end, without the list in front of him (and then the rule, and THEN brain storm on the less usual doublings (egg, fuzz, burr) to see if they also follow the after-a-single-vowel and one-syllable part of the rule. I also like the bits of grammar reinforcement. I wish there was some word history (but I understand it isn't in there because the program is mostly for youngers or strugglers), so I'm sticking some in on stickies. Going through this has really cemented my grasp of the rules, and I'd like to make sure kiddo has them tight (we are neither natural spellers) before we start on more demanding writing and reading courses. Man, oh man do I wish I'd had this 4 years ago. But c'est la vie. I've also really enjoyed all her (free) teacher's vids on her website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelsi Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I got the TM, only, and have been going through it page by page (it has been rather fun actually) putting stickies in to adapt to board work or to beef it up. E.g., when there is a list of words like:fill spill spell pass kiss hiss puff etc that the child is supposed to read and brainstorm on the next rule, I ask if kiddo can come up with words with a double consonant at the end, without the list in front of him (and then the rule, and THEN brain storm on the less usual doublings (egg, fuzz, burr) to see if they also follow the after-a-single-vowel and one-syllable part of the rule. I also like the bits of grammar reinforcement. I wish there was some word history (but I understand it isn't in there because the program is mostly for youngers or strugglers), so I'm sticking some in on stickies. Going through this has really cemented my grasp of the rules, and I'd like to make sure kiddo has them tight (we are neither natural spellers) before we start on more demanding writing and reading courses. Man, oh man do I wish I'd had this 4 years ago. But c'est la vie. I've also really enjoyed all her (free) teacher's vids on her website. Do you wish at all that you'd gotten the workbook as well or are you happy with just the TM? Is it laid out fairly nice? I'm looking for something for my 3rd grader who's on level with spelling/reading but I want him to be able to decode words. I'm using LOE's kindy level as a beta tester and so far I really like it. I was using WRTR with my 3rd grader but it is so annoying to follow - I "get" the phonics but the spelling rules are all over the place plus some of the phonics are not the same as LOE and teaching one set to one kid and another set to another child just doesn't make sense. I just can't decide if I should get the workbook and the TM or just the TM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Do you wish at all that you'd gotten the workbook as well or are you happy with just the TM? Is it laid out fairly nice? I'm happy without the workbook for our needs. I'm not sure my not-natural speller would have been up to it at 8. I wasn't up to another notebook as is, and do what writing I need to do on my nice big whiteboard, on a Boogie board on our laps. Plus, my son writes small. WWE, e.g. I've done all on different paper because the lines were too big. Plus, I'm not using the cursive LOE does, and I think the cursive book would have confused kiddo. He's having a harder time remembering how to form cursive letters than he is spelling and no way I'm going to change horses. I really like the vocab words on each spelling list. After he's spelled the words and identified the kind of word (noun, verb, etc), we sit side by side and he reads me the words. I have him tell me what he thinks they mean. I use the vocab words in a sentence and ask him if he was right. I think LOE is scripted, but packed with extras you can pick and choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugsMama Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 We don't use the workbook- everything you NEED is in the teachers manual. We do the workbook activities verbally, or on the whiteboard (everything you need to know is in the TM- even for the workbook activities). :001_smile: I think it would be a good fit for what you are trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugsMama Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Sorry I didn't read the whole thread before posting! I think an advanced level is in the works :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BugsMama Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Have you seen the teacher training videos? She even has a PDF teacher training manual you can use along with it. They are free on you tube, logic of English channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Do you wish at all that you'd gotten the workbook as well or are you happy with just the TM? Is it laid out fairly nice? I'm looking for something for my 3rd grader who's on level with spelling/reading but I want him to be able to decode words. I'm using LOE's kindy level as a beta tester and so far I really like it. I was using WRTR with my 3rd grader but it is so annoying to follow - I "get" the phonics but the spelling rules are all over the place plus some of the phonics are not the same as LOE and teaching one set to one kid and another set to another child just doesn't make sense. I just can't decide if I should get the workbook and the TM or just the TM. We're using LoE with my 3rd grader. She's an advanced reader and struggling speller. She's a perfectionist who isn't a natural speller. She tends to over think things, but she loves rules. LoE has been wonderful for her. We have slowed down with it simply because there are other things taking our time, but we are about 1/4 through it now. It has given her a huge confidence boost, and we've found the workbook to be pretty useful. I got the cursive one, and although she learned cursive before starting (HWOT) so her style is different, she's had no problems at all using it. It's been great practice for us. We are extremely workbook-averse here, yet she's been generally willing to do the exercises. This far in now I know better which of the exercises help her and are worth doing and which to skip. Even though it's possible to do this without the workbook, it's an important part of the program for us, despite our disdain of workbooks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelsi Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Thanks - I think I might possibly order the workbook along with the TM but possibly not use it. Dd is doing the LOE kindy Foundations program right now and I know I'll have her use Essentials next year so if the workbook isn't needed for my 3rd grader then dd can use it next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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