Have any of you used Fast ForWord for your dyslexic or autistic child?

[MBM]

Fast ForWord is a program of brain exercises developed by the neuroscientist Michael Merzenich to cure dyslexia and help autistic children. Have any of you used his program? I am reading about it in Norman Doidge's book The Brain That Changes Itself and finding Merzenich's theories fascinating. Any comments or thoughts?

[Lecka]

I looked into it for my son with reading issues but it didn't look like it would be a good fit for him.

 

I have seen some people say it is a little gimmicky, but I think it might be something that has a very specific intent, and will not be useful if that very specific thing is not what is needed.

 

You might be interested that dyslexia instruction also can re-wire the brain. If you look at Overcoming Dyslexia and also some other sources, they take MRIs of blood flow before and after intervention, and find that after intervention, the brain areas activated will be more similar to people without reading struggles.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080805124056.htm

 

I think this stuff is a little simplistic probably, because I think dyslexia doesn't really disappear. It is just possible to have remediated reading. (My opinion.) But just to make a point that remediation does seem to re-wire the brain.

 

Also, I think that multi-sensory learning can be really important for some things, and I worry that is lacking with a computer program, that would seem to just have audio and visual components. Maybe with some you could count typing or dragging a mouse, but I think dragging a mouse is too abstract and unphysical to compare with dragging a tile or counter (for certain things). It is something that wouldn't matter for a lot of kids, but I did try Headsprout (similar) with my son and it was too hard for him.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Lecka

[Crimson Wife]

I was actually in the process of looking into FFW for my DS when he made a cognitive breakthrough on his own and it became a moot point. He had had an articulation disorder and was showing other signs of auditory processing problems. All of a sudden, something "clicked" in his brain and he could do the things he had previously struggled with like rhyming. Within 3 months after that breakthrough, he was sounding out BOB books.

 

I felt a bit sheepish having to call the SLP whom I had been in contact with about starting FFW to tell her that DS no longer needed it, but she was very nice about it :001_smile:

[MBM]

Lecka, have you read about Merzenich's theory that exposure to too much white noise -- too many frequencies at once such as what you might hear living near an expressway, etc. -- as an infant can contribute to developing dyslexia and even autism (in those who are prone)? My husband gave me the Doidge book last night, and I need to go to Starbucks to read more about it...so I won't give in to my gardening chores! Anyway, it's so interesting. I'm wondering if the white noise theory might ring true with any of you here.

Btw, decades ago my mother, a grade school teacher, worked with dyslexic children using multi-sensory techniques. I know she had some success with it.

[MBM]

I was actually in the process of looking into FFW for my DS when he made a cognitive breakthrough on his own and it became a moot point. He had had an articulation disorder and was showing other signs of auditory processing problems. All of a sudden, something "clicked" in his brain and he could do the things he had previously struggled with like rhyming. Within 3 months after that breakthrough, he was sounding out BOB books.

 

That is wonderful! It makes me wonder why some kids just seem to pop out of these types of problems.

[Lecka]

I am not familiar with the white noise theory. I would doubt it for my son, just b/c it seems to be something that is genetic with him, and it is shared with my husband, my FIL, my older nephew, and I personally think with my little BIL. My FIL grew up in a very rural part of Texas, and my nephew is in Colorado, so I don't think that would be the case here. But it is an interesting idea. I know it comes out of nowhere for a lot of kids, with no known relative to ever have problems with it. I also don't think that my older son or my husband (from talking to my MIL) had any particular problems with fluids in their ears or ear infections when they were young. My younger son is one where I think fluids in his ears before he got tubes might have hindered his hearing in a way that might be similar to white noise.

 

My son did speech therapy at the time I was looking at Fast Forward. But he was not really a candidate for it anyway, so...

[Crimson Wife]

Lecka, have you read about Merzenich's theory that exposure to too much white noise -- too many frequencies at once such as what you might hear living near an expressway, etc. -- as an infant can contribute to developing dyslexia and even autism (in those who are prone)? My husband gave me the Doidge book last night, and I need to go to Starbucks to read more about it...so I won't give in to my gardening chores! Anyway, it's so interesting. I'm wondering if the white noise theory might ring true with any of you here.

 

That is interesting. We lived about 1/4 mi. from the interstate when I was pregnant with my autistic child and for her first year. DS (dx with ADHD) lived there from the time he was 7 mos. until shortly after he turned 4. It was closer to the freeway than I would've preferred but we moved there during a white-hot rental market so it's not like we had a lot of choice in where to live. We were lucky to find a decent place we could afford in a safe neighborhood.

 

OTOH, DD also has symptoms of possible mitochondrial issues and has responded well to the nutritional treatments for mito disorder (carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, coconut oil & coconut milk, etc.) So if living near the freeway played a role in her autism, I don't think it's the primary one.

[Beans27]

My dd uses it for APD. SHe was diagnosed with APD in the spring of 3rd grade. The school already had the program so she began using it an hour a day before school. Then in 4th grade, the head of spec. ed changed things. DD was then doing the program during school. DD wasn't happy about missing so much class.

 

So we purchased the program and use it remotely thru a speech pathologist in another county.

 

If DD hadn't been able to use it in school, I am not sure I would have purchased it. But after seeing the improvement in DD's APD, I had no issue with purchasing the program.

 

She does it at home 30mins a day 5 days a week, then the speech pathologist emails me a report at the end of the week.

 

I definitely see a difference. DD is also dyslexic, but I don't see any improvement with her dyslexia, only her APD.

 

You can go to the FFW site and call around for quotes from local providers and then call off site providers and get quotes. That is what I did and I went with the cheapest.

[lcook]

My son just finished up using FFW for his APD. If your son's dyslexia is due or partialy due to APD I highly recommend it. My son can now "hear" the individual phonemes in words. We did it for 90 minutes a day for about 11 weeks. I have seen gains in his auditory memory as well.

 

His APD isn't gone. He stills has trouble with everyday conversation. However, he now has the pre-reading skills that he didn't possess before.

 

When choosing a FFW provider (if you are lucky enough to have a choice), a good question to ask is "How do you help the child move forward in FFW if they reach a point where they are not making progress?" You are looking for them to say that they have additional games/activites for the child to play outside of FFW that will work on their areas of difficulty. Our provider gave us lots of activities to help my son continue to make progress in FFW. I believe this was key to keep him motivated and get us through the program as quick as possible. We were with a different provider in the beginning and the experience was not as good.

[dsmith]

The SLP we used a few years ago used Fast For Word with ds. I couldn't really figure out why she was using it, and she never explained what he was supposed to get out of it, other than faster processing. :confused: He didn't have any reading issues or any auditory processing issues. He had a getting lost in his own head issue, which I guess could look like an auditory processing issue... He can process amazing amounts of info rapidly if it is something he is interested in. I can't see that it helped him with anything.

[fiddle]

DD is also dyslexic, but I don't see any improvement with her dyslexia, only her APD.

 

:iagree:

 

We are still sorting out all of dd's issues. But in my research and hearing what other veteran parents have to say about this, it looks like if your dc has auditory processing issues Fast Forward is helpful. If not, the jury is out (I think).

 

Paula

[Mukmuk]

Yes, my son used it for about 8-9 weeks for APD earlier this year. Before he started on it, I hadn't realized that he couldn't differentiate certain letter pairs like "b" and "d". This didn't affect his speech, but it did affect his auditory processing.

 

I couldnt see any improvement initially until he attended a debate camp this year. The previous year for the same camp, he'd put up his hand to volunteer answers, but he'd always reply for the previous question. It was so obvious, a few moms who had sat in to observe the class asked me about it. This year, it didn't happen - he was able to process concurrently.

 

My son was a good reader and speller before this, so we can't tell if FFW had any effect in these areas.

[Guest Mddaley11]

The fast foward program worked great for me. I used it when I was younger. Its been about 20 years since then but I'm starting to have some of those same problems I did with auditory when I was younger. Has anyone experienced any set backs like this?

[geodob]

FFW has a very good marketing program.

But all of the controlled randomized trials of it, have concluded that it is not effective.

Though of course, the non-randomized trials that FFW conducted, show it to be effective?

 

Any company that claims that they have a 'Cure for Dyslexia'?

Immediately identifies them as lacking any credibility.

Then this absurd suggestion that exposure to white noise can contribute to developing Dyslexia and Autism?

Is just ridiculous.

But opens up the potential to market FFW, as a 'cure for Autism'?

 

Though what this makes me think about?

Is a thread to discuss and understand how to scientifically evaluate the validity of any 'Program'?

So that a Program's website, has a page detailing their Research.

How many Members here, know how to identify whether it is really valid research?

What the difference between a randomized and non-randomized trial actually is?

 

But this presents the idea of study into the process of Members here, as they look for Programs to help their child with an LD?

Where this makes me think about a Qualitative study, that looks at the whole experience and process of a parent.

The story that begins with a parent first becoming aware or noticing that their baby/ infant/child.  Doesn't seem to be meeting 'benchmarks'?

Or maybe they are just imagining things?

 

Though what I'm thinking about? Is a qualitative study of parents experience of becoming aware of their baby/infant/child having a difficulty?

The process that evolves with this?

Which would probably begin with personal confirmation?

 

But I am just speculating, from my position.

Though what I'm thinking about, is a qualitative study?

With members here.

Which could collectively help to form an understanding of a parents evolving experience with a baby/infant/child with an LD?

[Lecka]

I cannot tell from a website.  I am more like -- well, Sally Shaywitz is a professor at an Ivy League school, and that is something that seems good to me.  So I am going off the name brand, to some extent.  Then, there are before and after brain scans for dyslexia remediation.  I have looked at them and read them ----- but ultimately, I am going by several sources, that all seem reputable to me, all saying the same things.  So it is like -- the LMB website has some research studies, that agree with what other websites say, that also seem reputable.  

 

But, what I run into with autism, is that I do not know what journals or "institutes" (I just mean -- fancy sounding words, that sound official to me) are more reputable and which are less.  I believe that the MIND Institute is reputable.  Partly b/c I have looked at the website, and I have read the parents book for Early Start Denver Model, and it is obviously good (imo), and that person is at the MIND Institute.  But then -- I also am pre-disposed to like it, b/c a blogger I follow likes it, and took her younger daughter to be part of the Baby Sibs research study and went there, and that is where she takes her son I think.  So to some extent -- I like this mommy blogger and she likes the MIND Institute, so I like it, too.  

 

When I have physical books I can tell a lot more.  

 

I also do not give over-credence to the Ivy League pedigree, b/c I think there are some that seem a little on the quack side, imo.  But I cannot tell that from their reported evidence -- I don't know what the different journals are.  There seem to be a lot of journals wrt autism that are controversial to some and legitimate to some, and I cannot tell them by their titles or anything.  I cannot tell them by their web sites.  

 

I am just pretty skeptical for autism unless I am going to a site for a program that I have heard about first-hand ----- and, I think a woman in my school district is very good, and if she thinks a program/site is good, then that is something I pay a lot of attention to, and basically that is good enough for me.  But I do not know how to really decide for myself.  (Also my son's therapist, but the woman in the school I think is even better, b/c she is more broad and works with more age groups and she goes to more conferences and stuff).  

 

Hearing that something has worked for another parent means a lot to me, too.  

 

[Lecka]

http://www.nationalautismcenter.org/pdf/NAC%20Ed%20Manual_FINAL.pdf

 

For example -- I read this, and it all seemed good to me, I felt informed, whatever.  

 

But one of my friends told me she thinks this organization is garbage, they are biased, they are just putting out things that show what they already thing.  So -- I don't know?   

 

I just googled this to find it again, and now I want to go back and re-read it.

 

My friend though, seriously, told me they were not really using real research, only biased research, etc etc.  She couldn't believe I would fall for their slick design or whatever.  

 

But personally I do like it and think it seems helpful and reputable -- but I cannot say that based on any feeling of knowing what I am talking about, only as an opinion.