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So, how much did I overreact?


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We spent the weekend with my inlaws. We got home from church a few minutes before FIL, MIL, and my 2yo. I was the first one in the house. Dh stayed outside awhile, so only the 3 oldest followed me in. I went straight down the steps to the basement so that I could fold the towels we'd used and put the sheets we'd used in the dryer. As I was coming up the steps, I noticed my daughter's shoes at the bottom of the step. My sons' shoes were on the steps. I thought, "Why did those crazy kids throw their shoes down the steps (the steps are just past a 3 sq ft landing inside the door - a hallway runs along the steps to the kitchen)? I went to find the kids to find out what happened and ask them to pick up their shoes. I asked all three of them who had thrown the shoes down then FIL said, "That was me. They just left them lay. They should have lined them up." So, instead of asking them to move the shoes, he kicked them down the steps. I told my husband we were leaving.:001_huh: I've put up with comments about the kids and our parenting for years. Maybe this was the straw that broke the camel's back? Today was very out of character for me.

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Like the others said... for this one incident it seems like over-reacting. But I totally get exploding because you've put up with lots of "little" things. No judgement here. I have absolutely NO relationship with my MIL/FIL so I'm not going to point fingers at someone who got fed up with their inlaws.

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As an incident in and of itself, huge overreaction in my opinion. As part of a larger issue, I can't say, but maybe appropriate? Sounds like you know that though.

:grouphug:

 

Yeah. When Dh mentioned that FIL wasn't the parent, FIL (this is a paraphrase as I don't remember his exact words) said he could do better and our kids were below standard. For the record, we have very nice kids who regularly get complimented by other people. It's more of a constant thing. If I send the kids outside, MIL will call them in for jackets. If I don't make the kids take some of everything at a meal, they make a comment. There isn't much of anything to do, but I have to keep the kids still and quiet for a weekend. If we take something to do with the kids, we are being rude, but the inlaws don't interact with the kids except to scold. I just had enough today.

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Yeah. When Dh mentioned that FIL wasn't the parent, FIL (this is a paraphrase as I don't remember his exact words) said he could do better and our kids were below standard. For the record, we have very nice kids who regularly get complimented by other people. It's more of a constant thing. If I send the kids outside, MIL will call them in for jackets. If I don't make the kids take some of everything at a meal, they make a comment. There isn't much of anything to do, but I have to keep the kids still and quiet for a weekend. If we take something to do with the kids, we are being rude, but the inlaws don't interact with the kids except to scold. I just had enough today.

 

Oh my. That's different then. Not an overreaction at all. I mean, kicking the shoes and being like, they should have done it... eh, rude, but I could live with it. All that stuff? Especially calling your kids below standard? I would have left too.

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Yeah. When Dh mentioned that FIL wasn't the parent, FIL (this is a paraphrase as I don't remember his exact words) said he could do better and our kids were below standard. For the record, we have very nice kids who regularly get complimented by other people. It's more of a constant thing. If I send the kids outside, MIL will call them in for jackets. If I don't make the kids take some of everything at a meal, they make a comment. There isn't much of anything to do, but I have to keep the kids still and quiet for a weekend. If we take something to do with the kids, we are being rude, but the inlaws don't interact with the kids except to scold. I just had enough today.

 

You left after FIL said that? I would have left too! That is horrible. :glare:

 

I hope the kids did not hear him say that.

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If we take something to do with the kids, we are being rude, but the inlaws don't interact with the kids except to scold. I just had enough today.

 

I think I'd start being busy no most weekends. I'd also start planning some outings when there: time at the park. How about a good family read aloud? If they don't want to listen to a good story, they don't have to. "I'm sorry you think it rude. I think that reading aloud is a healthy, warm, mind-growing activity, not a rude act."

 

Have you ever considered, in response to kicked shoes, saying something like: That reaction is one of an angry child. Why are you so angry? Life is too short.

 

...and then just let the chips fall where they may.

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Oh my. That's different then. Not an overreaction at all. I mean, kicking the shoes and being like, they should have done it... eh, rude, but I could live with it. All that stuff? Especially calling your kids below standard? I would have left too.

 

I don't want to make it sound worse than it was. I should have said he thinks their behaviour is below standard.

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I don't want to make it sound worse than it was. I should have said he thinks their behaviour is below standard.

 

That's what I assumed from your original comment. Still unacceptable.

 

I totally get finding the last straw in some shoes kicked down the stairs, particularly with an attitude like theirs.

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Do your children enjoy seeing them, or is seeing them actually making them feel bad about themselves? Because if this is damaging their self esteem, perhaps it is time ti be busy on weekends.

 

Also, establish firm boundaries. If they can't stick to them, they can't see the kids.

 

I can't imagine how your kids feel after a visit with such grumps.

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Yeah. When Dh mentioned that FIL wasn't the parent, FIL (this is a paraphrase as I don't remember his exact words) said he could do better and our kids were below standard. For the record, we have very nice kids who regularly get complimented by other people. It's more of a constant thing. If I send the kids outside, MIL will call them in for jackets. If I don't make the kids take some of everything at a meal, they make a comment. There isn't much of anything to do, but I have to keep the kids still and quiet for a weekend. If we take something to do with the kids, we are being rude, but the inlaws don't interact with the kids except to scold. I just had enough today.

 

Wow. I would have left too. And we'd be setting some clear boundaries about appropriate comments and actions before we spent any more time with them. And I would have been sorely tempted to point out to FIL that kicking the shoes down the stairs was even more childish and unacceptable than my kids not leaving them in a neat row (not to mention dangerous--what if you had tripped on them while carrying the linens downstairs!?). Kicking shoes downstairs is definitely "below standard" behavior, and he doesn't even have the excuse of being a child.

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I think I'd start being busy no most weekends. I'd also start planning some outings when there: time at the park. How about a good family read aloud? If they don't want to listen to a good story, they don't have to. "I'm sorry you think it rude. I think that reading aloud is a healthy, warm, mind-growing activity, not a rude act."

 

Have you ever considered, in response to kicked shoes, saying something like: That reaction is one of an angry child. Why are you so angry? Life is too short.

 

...and then just let the chips fall where they may.

 

We only see them about six times a year. It is a six hour drive so we'd like to spend the entire time with them. But we'd like for them to enjoy the kids. Of my inlaws' five kids, three will only visit their home for a few hours the day we celebrate Christmas. I don't want to do that.

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Still completely unacceptable. Period.

 

:iagree:

 

My sister's fil flipped out once when she was visiting with her dc. (He came storming into the room, yelling and waving his arms. It was awful.) My sister packed her dc up in a hurry and hasn't ever taken them back since. Granted, she lives in Germany and her ils live an hour from me, stateside, but still - when she is here, she will NOT stay with them.

 

My father and my mil are awesome when it comes to being parents of adult children and grandparents. My mother is a nightmare. :glare: She was perfect and everything I do is wrong and if I do things differently than she did, I am passively aggressively criticizing her! :001_huh:

 

:grouphug:

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Do your children enjoy seeing them, or is seeing them actually making them feel bad about themselves? Because if this is damaging their self esteem, perhaps it is time ti be busy on weekends.

 

Also, establish firm boundaries. If they can't stick to them, they can't see the kids.

 

I can't imagine how your kids feel after a visit with such grumps.

 

My kids seem to accept them. Part of the reason the visits are so stressful is that I am trying to smooth things over for the kids. My parents are great with kids, and I think my kids attribute grandparent warm fuzzies to my inlaws that they haven't earned. The four older cousins won't have anything to do with them. I'd actually like my kids to keep those warm fuzzies as long as possible.

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Wow. I would have left too. And we'd be setting some clear boundaries about appropriate comments and actions before we spent any more time with them. And I would have been sorely tempted to point out to FIL that kicking the shoes down the stairs was even more childish and unacceptable than my kids not leaving them in a neat row (not to mention dangerous--what if you had tripped on them while carrying the linens downstairs!?). Kicking shoes downstairs is definitely "below standard" behavior, and he doesn't even have the excuse of being a child.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I'd have left too. If they really wanted you all to spend time with them, they wouldn't be so unwelcoming and critical.

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My kids seem to accept them. Part of the reason the visits are so stressful is that I am trying to smooth things over for the kids. My parents are great with kids, and I think my kids attribute grandparent warm fuzzies to my inlaws that they haven't earned. The four older cousins won't have anything to do with them. I'd actually like my kids to keep those warm fuzzies as long as possible.

 

You're too kind. I firmly believe warm fuzzies must be earned :)

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Well, to me, without knowing your in-laws, the act of kicking your kids' shoes down the basement stairs says FIL doesn't like your kids and doesn't want them around. So, I don't blame you at all for saying "bye-bye." I might not ever go back, either.

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We only see them about six times a year. It is a six hour drive so we'd like to spend the entire time with them. But we'd like for them to enjoy the kids. Of my inlaws' five kids, three will only visit their home for a few hours the day we celebrate Christmas. I don't want to do that.

 

While I think it's admirable that you don't want to do that, if they treat the rest of their kids and grandkids the way they treat you guys, I'm not surprised they don't want to spend time there. You reap what you sow, you know?

 

I think it's possible for you guys to set and enforce clear boundaries, but you'll have to be pretty hard-nosed about it. It definitely sounds like a case of "you have to teach people how to treat you." Now, if they absolutely won't shape up and treat you guys with respect once you've demonstrated that you won't let them walk all over you, then you may have some tough decisions to make. :grouphug:

Edited by Kirch
spelling on the kindle ... ugh
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Like the others said... for this one incident it seems like over-reacting. But I totally get exploding because you've put up with lots of "little" things. No judgement here..

 

:iagree: I've been there on more than one occasion, and I'm sure I'll be there again!

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After reading your posts to this thread, I can say with absolute certainty that I do not think you over-reacted. You were right to leave.

 

I don't believe that you need to tolerate poor behavior or a snotty attitude from anyone, and that includes family members like your FIL.

 

I can definitely understand why it was "the last straw" for you and your dh. :grouphug: If anyone over-reacted in this situation, it was your FIL. Kicking the shoes down the steps? Oh, please. :glare:

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Honestly, I was p'oed when I read the post and I wasn't even there nor are they my inlaws or kids.

 

My first thought about him kicking the shoes down the stairs is that he is not only an angry child, he is an angry child with pent up hostile feelings towards your kids' visit.

 

So, no, I don't think that you "overreacted".

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So, do they invite your family to visit and stay with them? Or do you and your DH just go because you feel that you should because they are his parents and to create those warm fuzzy feelings that you want your DC to have about their grandparents.

 

The reason I ask, is maybe they don't really want you guys to come but don't know how to tell you no, so they act out when you are there, hoping you'll get the hint.

 

We've seen many, many posts on these boards about this exact same thing in reverse. "Grandparents/Aunt/whatever family members want to visit, but how do I tell them not to?" posts.

 

You don't need to answer me, but I thought I'd toss it out there as something to think about. Maybe you don't need to be making those visits 6 times a year - and can save yourself a lot of stress. Maybe the other three sibs stay away because they have already come to this conclusion - have you ever asked them outright what their reason to stay away is? Perhaps one visit a year will preserve the relationship better/longer than repeated strain-inducing ones throughout the year.

 

Just some food for thought...

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Have you discussed this with your inlaws over the years? Because I think that if you quietly put up with their behaviour all along then your behaviour, while understandable, wsn't appropriate. It was passive-aggressive and they'll be left confused as to why a tiff ov shoes sent you packing.

 

Blow ups like you had have to be earned. You have to have made many honest attempts to fix the situation before you get to stomp out guilt free. And believe me, I get it. I'm naturally PA myself but I've had to learn there's absolutely nothing virtous or right about putting up with stuff that truly gets under my skin.

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Oh my. That's different then. Not an overreaction at all. I mean, kicking the shoes and being like, they should have done it... eh, rude, but I could live with it. All that stuff? Especially calling your kids below standard? I would have left too.

:iagree:Not going to stay where I'm and my kid are not welcome.

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So, do they invite your family to visit and stay with them? Or do you and your DH just go because you feel that you should because they are his parents and to create those warm fuzzy feelings that you want your DC to have about their grandparents.

 

You don't need to answer me, but I thought I'd toss it out there as something to think about. Maybe you don't need to be making those visits 6 times a year - and can save yourself a lot of stress. Maybe the other three sibs stay away because they have already come to this conclusion - have you ever asked them outright what their reason to stay away is? Perhaps one visit a year will preserve the relationship better/longer than repeated strain-inducing ones throughout the year.

 

Just some food for thought...

 

They think we don't visit enough. We aren't at their house 6 times a year. We see them at a siblings house once a year and they visit us once a year. From comments they've made over the years, I know they think I limit visits with them. The truth is that Dh loves them but would not call or visit them unless I mentioned it had been awhile.

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Have you discussed this with your inlaws over the years? Because I think that if you quietly put up with their behaviour all along then your behaviour, while understandable, wsn't appropriate. It was passive-aggressive and they'll be left confused as to why a tiff ov shoes sent you packing.

 

Blow ups like you had have to be earned. You have to have made many honest attempts to fix the situation before you get to stomp out guilt free. And believe me, I get it. I'm naturally PA myself but I've had to learn there's absolutely nothing virtous or right about putting up with stuff that truly gets under my skin.

 

This is why it was an overreaction. We put up with so much when the kids were little. Over the past few years, Dh would say "I've got it," or "I'm right here," if FIL got after the kids, but we still didn't address the disapproval that positively radiates from them. The few times when someone in the family gently tried to address an issue it didn't go well. On our family vacation last month he kept calling my youngest Margaret. We named her Margaret Grace after my Grammy but call her Grace. She only knows herself as Grace. My sister-in-law calmly said, "She's not going to answer to Margaret. They call her Grace." FIL started yelling at her saying he could call her what he wanted to. When we asked him to call her Grace soon after she was born, he replied along the lines of "you named her Margaret, so she should be called Margaret." Calm conversations to work out issues don't work well. I really believe our only two options are to accept the relationship or stop going. I know I won't cut them out of our lives, so now I'm stuck with angry words in our history. I didn't even want a blowup this time. I just wanted to leave a few hours early. I'm not sure what Dh said that got FIL heated because I wasn't in the room. We stayed about an hour after the incident to try to leave on a good note.

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Is there any way you can talk with them, you and your husband, that is? Clear the air, so to speak? I know it's not a normal way of handling stuff for most people. So much gets said behind other people's backs for fear of hurting them or getting into conflict or getting hurt. I'm not great with it, either, but my suspicion is that it would solve so many problems.

 

Perhaps you could look at it this way, too--

 

Suppose your Fil wrote your post. Think of what he might have said. Maybe something like,

 

"Did I overreact? My son and dil were visiting with their children. We try our best not to say anything, but something always happens. For example, dil will send the kids out without jackets to play when clearly, it's jacket weather! We only see them limited times during the year, as they live 6 hours away, but they bring things to do and we feel ignored.

This Sunday was the last straw. We'd gone to church, and when we got home, the kids had left their shoes all scattered on the floor! We could have tripped! Who does that in a house where there is the very real possibility of us breaking a hip?! So, I kicked them down the stairs. Then my son tells me that

"You're not the parent!"

Oh, it gets better. My dil convinced him to just up and leave, right then and there! I know, I probably overreacted. But it was just the straw that broke the camel's back."

 

Now, I'm not saying that's totally accurate, but sometimes it's helpful for me to try to get into the head of someone I'm having conflict with. It's not as helpful if I don't follow up with some sort of discussion. Could you do that?

 

ITA with not "taking it" anymore, but I hate to cut off relationship if honesty and "work" will make it better.

 

Of course, sometimes I'm willing to be honest, listen, discuss, try--and the other person isn't. Then I just have to stick with my boundaries--hard for me.

 

Hope I haven't overstepped. Just offering. :grouphug:

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This is why it was an overreaction. We put up with so much when the kids were little. Over the past few years, Dh would say "I've got it," or "I'm right here," if FIL got after the kids, but we still didn't address the disapproval that positively radiates from them. The few times when someone in the family gently tried to address an issue it didn't go well. On our family vacation last month he kept calling my youngest Margaret. We named her Margaret Grace after my Grammy but call her Grace. She only knows herself as Grace. My sister-in-law calmly said, "She's not going to answer to Margaret. They call her Grace." FIL started yelling at her saying he could call her what he wanted to. When we asked him to call her Grace soon after she was born, he replied along the lines of "you named her Margaret, so she should be called Margaret." Calm conversations to work out issues don't work well. I really believe our only two options are to accept the relationship or stop going. I know I won't cut them out of our lives, so now I'm stuck with angry words in our history. I didn't even want a blowup this time. I just wanted to leave a few hours early. I'm not sure what Dh said that got FIL heated because I wasn't in the room. We stayed about an hour after the incident to try to leave on a good note.

*gently*

You cannot control his reactions, only yours. The question is, if/when you put boundaries in place, which it sounds like your dh is attempting to do, how are you going to deal w/him reacting like a petulant child? From the sounds of things, that's how his reaction has been in the past, and that's the best indicator of future behaviour.

 

At which time, you have a choice. Be a doormat, or quit allowing him to treat you guys (you, your dh, your kids) disrespectfully.

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The truth is, you aren't going to get him to change no matter how reasonable you are with him. I have been through a similar situation where I put up with behavior for so long, trying to be calm and rational, and just finally had enough. Boundaries exist to protect you, not make the other party happy.

 

I think you have a decision to make. Either cut off all contact, or most contact with them, or make sure you don't get into situations with them any more where they have any power over you. Like for instance, don't stay with them ever again. If it's too expensive not to stay with them, don't visit. And understand that a bully is always going to be mad at you no matter what you do.

 

I would let DH take the lead on this one. Don't remind him to visit or call or whatever. For his parents, he can take the reigns on the relationship. Talk to him about it, and make sure the 2 of you are a united front on this issue. And develop a thick skin, because you are going to need it.

 

It's not fun dealing with unreasonable family members, that much I know. But once you've had it, you've had it. :grouphug:

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We only see them about six times a year. It is a six hour drive so we'd like to spend the entire time with them. But we'd like for them to enjoy the kids. Of my inlaws' five kids, three will only visit their home for a few hours the day we celebrate Christmas. I don't want to do that.

 

 

In blue --there's a reason they only visit a few hours a year.

 

I wouldn't subject my kids to unacceptable behavior -- I would visit on Christmas.....period. Your dh can explain why if an explanation is necessary. That would be it -- end of story.

 

Your children must be considered before anyone else.

 

I think the situation you described is the straw that broke the camel's back and you acted in a way that is perfectly understandable.

 

The behavior you described by your FIL is NOT the problem.....it is a symptom of a problem. Please don't expose your kids to that.:grouphug:

Edited by MariannNOVA
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My MIL gets into this Oh, poor baby and makes all kinds of oh oh oh sounds any time we have to discipline dd. Do you know how good it felt the first time dd continued to act up and MIL continued to have a problem with us dealing with it and I just told dh that I was going to take dd home. We were at their house for dinner and dh's aunt and uncle were there as well. I had no clue how she would react to my leaving and at that point I really didn't care. It hasn't changed her behavior, but dd listens well enough now that I haven't had to do it again.

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In blue --there's a reason they only visit a few hours a year.

 

 

And you could use the money you save not driving for hours both ways the other 5 times to stay in a hotel.

 

Does he drink? Many people with kind of rage do drink. Is it possible he is off his nightly meal of alcohol when you visit? That can make for serious cranky.

Just a-wondering, not trying to accuse.

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You're too kind. I firmly believe warm fuzzies must be earned :)

 

:iagree: I'm done running interference for my MIL and my kids. Sometimes she's fantastic, sometimes she makes the kids cry she's so mean. I'd rather the kids know that her opinion isn't reliable than to think that what she says is actually a reflection on them, KWIM? They are polite and will interact with her, but I certainly don't push it. Speaking from my own experience with grandparents, I don't want them to resent being forced into those interactions simply because they're related. If the relationship is going to grow it takes work from both sides. Grandparents aren't automatically a child's best friend just because they're grandparents.

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Yikes...What a tense situation with your in-laws.

 

2 things:

 

Have you read the Boundaries book/s?

 

Your dh should be dealing with them. It's his issue. He needs to protect his kids and wife.

 

I hope it improves. :grouphug:

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<snip> Calm conversations to work out issues don't work well. I really believe our only two options are to accept the relationship or stop going. <snip>

 

I just want to offer some encouragement and let you know that those are not necessarily not your only two options, even if the other party refuses to discuss things and try to work them out.

 

I have experience with two close relatives like this; in the case of one, the responses were sometimes far more over the top than what you are talking about here. One relative was near my age, the other a grandparent. Neither was open to negotiation or talking things out.

 

We finally decided that, if they wouldn't talk WITH us, we would talk AT them, which meant they each heard a quick, forceful speech that basically said, "We will not let you treat us or our children without respect. If you do, we will leave right then. If you continue to do it, we will see you less."

 

And then that's what we did. We didn't give examples; we had mentioned everything countless times before, and anyway no one needs you to tell them that it's disrespectful to yell at people or throw their shoes down the stairs.

 

When we started that, one of them was suddenly willing to engage in long discussions, b/c they wanted to go on about how hurt they were, how they couldn't believe we would leave/humiliate them/keep them from the kids. Um, no, time for discussion is past. If they called right after we left, we ignored the phone.

 

Their behavior was VASTLY improved after several episodes convinced them we were serious. With the one person, we did have to go through a few times of really limiting contact - we never proclaimed we were doing this (other than the initial announcement), we just answered the phone less, accepted fewer invitations, and so on.

 

After a certain amount of time, and after they showed a good faith effort to improve, we no longer had to leave at the very first sign of trouble. Instead, I might interupt their (rude) comments and say, "I'm taking the kids to the park" and walk out the door quickly. Depending on how bad it was, I might say, "I'm not listening to this." When we returned, they had usually managed to contain themselves. If not, we would leave.

 

This can seem harsh, but it saved our relationship (and kept it a true relationship, not one of duty or endurance). Talking it out simply does not work with some people. In the case of the grandparent, his pride would absolutely not allow for any 'giving in' via a discussion, or having any mistakes pointed out.

 

I finally figured this out, and that's why we always simply left; we didn't say why then (he knew) and we never brought it up again. In his case in particular, it was much kinder to quickly end that visit and start fresh the next time. His pride kept him from talking things out, but, y'know what? I realized it was my pride that insisted that he verbally acknowledge his wrongs - he simply couldn't do that, but, when we let him save face (AND stayed strict, lol), he was willing to change his ways, and that was really the important thing.

 

We lived close by, so we could actually leave and go home each time. In your case, I would try leaving for the day first (if it's not an over the top offense). "We're going to the museum, we'll probably eat out so we won't be back till late" and then GO. You have to do it quickly, no discussion (so prep the kids). If they try to talk or ask to go or stop you, just keep moving, "No, we're going just us, and we're leaving right now, see ya."

 

That's long, but I wanted to give you specific examples of what we did. Their refusal to talk or negotiate does NOT mean you have to put up with it or quit visiting. There are other tools at your disposal. And the best part about it? Not only are we much happier with visits, but so are they. They weren't proud or pleased when they acted like jerks, but it was ingrained and they needed a strong push to change (one that let them save face).

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And you could use the money you save not driving for hours both ways the other 5 times to stay in a hotel.

 

Does he drink? Many people with kind of rage do drink. Is it possible he is off his nightly meal of alcohol when you visit? That can make for serious cranky.

Just a-wondering, not trying to accuse.

 

No, he doesn't drink. He has a pessimistic nature. By all accounts his father and grandfather were the same way. Dh has it but is more mellow and trying to work on it. One of my sons has it, and we are actively trying to teach him coping skills.

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