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Early college questions..


Misty
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Has anyone been down this road and can give some advice? My daughter is 10, but could probably handle some high school courses. Math is the only subject that holds her back. I've been thinking about dual enrollment, possibly full-time enrollment, to college around the age of 15 or 16, but not sure what the process would be. How do you provide a high school transcript when the child has barely started high school? Should I start keeping transcripts now at age 10? I don't even teach most subjects to her because she absorbs them on her own. The subjects I do teach are pretty much at grade level for the most part, but she will be doing 7th grade Lightning Lit & Comp next year and continuing with high school level literature. Her knowledge of most subjects (science, history, religion, art, literature, etc.) is extensive and impressive, but I have no written record of most of it since she has acquired it all on her own. She does want to go early and is even doing extra math each week because she is worried that it will hold her back (she has big plans for her life!!).

 

So for those of us who are expecting early college admission, maybe dual enrollment, do you start keeping transcripts earlier than usual? Is there any BTDT wisdom to be shared? I use HS Tracker. Is this good for keeping track of credits or is there something else better?

 

And, yes, the thought of my young daughter amongst all of those 18-year-olds is a very scary thought! We would consider all options and make our decision carefully depending on the college, her age, and opportunities available to her.

 

Thanks!

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Guest MolindaH

I have a daughter who was in a simular situation when she was that age. I needed to find something that would challenge her academically while keeping her home a little longer to mature more and become more spiritually grounded. What I found satified both criteria. It is an online conferencing school called "The Potter's School". The website is as follows: www.pottersschool.org. This school is not for everyone, however it is without a doubt challenging. Potter's gears their curriculum, classes, and structure to prepare the students to attend the nations top school and/or military academies. Have a look for yourself. If you have any questions please let me know.

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My daughter is younger than yours but I've started thinking about this same thing already. I've been thinking of doing at least some of her high school classes with college texts bought at a local college and have her test for credit in lieu of going to college early. Besides, it costs less than enrolling. I'll still keep records and create transcripts as if she were in regular high school. That way, when we think she's ready to head off to college, she'll have both transcripts and college credit for admissions.

 

Our local state university also has a program for early entrance. They only accept about 15 fourteen (I think) year olds each year. The kids attend a transition program that prepares them to enter regular classes. Then, the next year, they enter as regular students. Perhaps you have a college near you that has a similar program.

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I do keep transcript-worthy records for DS at this point, although I'm not actually making a transcript yet. We had one college admissions officer come to talk to our homeschool group who said he wanted to see Algebra 1 and every math after it on the transcript no matter how early it was taken, and he wanted dates, textbook names, a description of work required and how the work was evaluated, and a grade. So I'm keeping all of that. On the other hand I've heard that some colleges don't want to hear about anything that didn't happen in the four years preceeding admission... and I don't really know what year he'll apply, so I hate to guess when the "four years preceeding admission" will start! So I expect I'll just have to put together a transcript to suit whatever requirement is in effect and whatever college DS eventually applies to, whenever that happens. ;) For now I just keep as much detail as I can, so I don't have to reconstruct it later.

 

The other reason I keep my records like this is that with a ridiculously-young student I think it's harder to justify placement if we were to need to send him to PS or anything like that... and having detailed records and copies of things can't hurt. I do use HS Tracker, and I think it's great, but I also just keep a portfolio of work samples. It's one thing for me to say, "He was seven and got an A in Algebra 1," (which could mean anything or nothing) and another to say, "No really, this was the textbook and here's the copy of the midterm that he got 92% on, and his scratch paper where he factored polynomials in his seven-year-old scrawl..." Because really, who's going to believe me otherwise?? And outside of math, I think it's even harder to decide what makes high school level work -- the depth of the reading and the quality of the writing and the total workload all contribute, and it can be a judgement call in the end (and one that might not be made until you see where she goes with it afterwards)

 

We're very fortunate here that we're not terribly far from some good colleges... so I'm hopeful that if DS gets to a point where he needs more than I can provide but isn't really old enough (mature enough, tall enough to reach the lab bench....) for full-time admission, we could patch something together with tutors and mentors.

 

So anyway... not quite BTDT, but coming right along with you here! ;)

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This is a decision I've really wrestled with. I don't have any solutions, but I'll share some thoughts as my dd is 14 now and we're a little closer. I've talked to numerous college "packagers", read both of Elizabeth Wissner-Gross's books (highly recommended as you think this through) and we've begun visiting potential universities when we're nearby them.

 

Dd is profoundly gifted and has alway been light years ahead of her chronological age. For example, when tested in 3rd grade her reading level could not be accurately measured as she topped out, putting her at least at 12.9 grade level. Her SATs in 7th grade were better than the median level at ivy league schools. So it's clear she's a candidate for early college.

 

Up until she was about 12, I couldn't picture ever considering sending her, say, from 8th grade to college as a few people I know have done. She was still such a kid emotionally, and I didn't think she'd be able to write a 10-15 page term paper. But all that changed this year (8th grade) and she would be fully capable of doing this now. As a "test" I had her do an AP class this year, and she scored a 5 on it, altho her organization methods were, shall we say, less than ideal.

 

However, I think early college generally means a lesser college. Oh sure, I do know of one kid at a top college who is getting a master's at 16 (!), but in general, what early college means for most PG kids is 2 years of community college followed up by 2 years at the local state college that has to accept the CC graduate in their state, or 4 years at a fairly non selective local private college. Please, no flames, I'm speaking in general and I know that there are exceptions. But we are members of Davidson, and this is what I hear at that high powered group. Also, it usually means living at home, not a full going-away college experience.

 

So, to me, the issue has come down to can I challenge her and keep her busy at home, and give her the opportunity to at least try for an education at a top echelon college? I KNOW there's a difference--my BA is from Northeastern Illinois University, and my MA is from the University of Chicago. While I had some great profs at NEIU, the difference in intellectual quality between a run of the mill state school and an outstanding university is humongous.

 

Whether we like it or not, there is still cachet attached to an ivy or near ivy degree. If your child is one of the smartest students in the country, I think it's worth trying for one of the top schools, and generally they don't admit kids much younger than 16. Why? Because they don't need the problems. Why should they take kids who are younger and potentially need more supervision and support, when they've got more than enough straight 2400 SAT kids with 4.00 averages and tons of extracurriculars who don't need anything extra from the schools?

 

Dd has been adamant about not wanting to go to our local (highly regarded) high school. She did get accepted for the orchestra there, however, and since she scored a perfect on their EXPLORE placement test (okay, one wrong on the math section), they're willing to let her into anything academically that she wants to take. However, she would need to drop one language, not take art if she takes music, yadda yadda. In other words, she can study what she wants at home, not what works for their schedule. We'll work out a combo of on-line, self-study, finding mentors, and some of their classes (like science, where I'm sick of the mess!). We might try a CC class, either in person or on-line, but so far our CC's classes do not appear to be as challenging as AP. In this area, IMHO, our CC is more like remedial high school.

 

Finally, I'd suggest considering that a child's interests may change radically over the 4 years usually spent in high school. For example, only in the last year has it become apparent that my dd has a profound interest in music, and several more years will be needed to meet the auditon requirements of a music major. Even now, it is unclear whether her interest will be in performance, academic music studies, or composition--all of which would indicate different college paths. The author David Albert has written about his younger daughter's decision to go into international studies instead of piano (where she was a prodigy)--an interest that only developed in the two years before college.

 

Finally, I think we have had to consider the difference between intelligence and achievement. Yes, dd is very very smart. However, the top colleges are also considering achievement, and not just test scores. Kids who are successfully admitted to top colleges often have a resume a mile long--worked in labs, published works, started complicated community service projects, had professional exhibitions, won national-level competitions, tons of 5s on many APs. The bar is very high, and imho difficult to achieve at a very early age.

 

Also, there are some issues about what kind of aid and/or scholarships a young student is eligible for. I haven't checked into that yet, but it has been raised on other lists.

 

Talk to me in a couple of years and I may have different insights! But right now, we've decided not to go the early admission route. YMMV!

Danielle

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One more thought: I have created a list, with texts and grades and how I established the grades, for all high-school level classes dd has completed before the upcoming 9th grade. Some colleges want this and some won't consider anything before 9th. However, you can always submit it as addenda to the application (Is there anything else we should know about this applicant?)

 

The other way to "prove" competence is through the AP scores and SAT II scores. For example, if a 10 year old knows all about history, check out the sample SAT II questions on the College Board website. Generally, they recommend taking the SAT II in the year you finish the specific course, in order to get the best score. These do the job for justifying to admissions directors.

Danielle

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I agree with Danielle that you may be well advised to build a significant achievement report from middle school through high school, so that when the student is in 12th grade, the application to top-ranked universities can really shine. There are incredible opportunities for in-depth work for young people that can really add to their education before sending them off to college.

 

We've kept careful records of all AP tests, college courses, online courses, community service projects, and published work even during the 10-14 year old stage, because that can validate your description of the student's abilities.

 

If you spend time at College Confidential, http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/ you can see some impressive work high school kids are doing nowadays, and take ideas from there. In my opinion, that's a better route to follow than sending a young child to university too early.

 

Just my thoughts!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Very good points!!! Thanks for everyone's input. I have shared some of your input with dh, but he still thinks early admission is the way to go so we will see. He is highly educated himself and I respect his opinion, but I definitely see the pros for waiting. We will see what dd's desires are when the time comes and go from there.

 

Thanks again!

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